Were Most Of America's Founding Fathers - Christians

[presonorek]

Who cares?

It makes us a nation founded by Christians but not a Christian nation

Exactly. England is officially a Christian nation. The United States is and always has been intentionally a non religious nation. There is a political motive for convincing people that the United States is a Christian nation. However, culturally the United States forced the world to shift in a Judeo-Christian direction during World War II. The old European ideology of celebrating the strong and discarding the weak was finally demolished forever. The Judeo-Christian values of the dignity of all human life and the equality of humankind now dominates the world.

I’m bad at explaining this concept but the ancient values of European thought was finally eradicated in World War II. So we can say the world, including the United States, is now more Christianish than it was when the United States was formed. I suppose it depends on how loosely someone defines the word Christian.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Bullshit

NFBW: There are more Catholic Democrats than Catholic Republicans - it’s just that Republicans are militant and make more noise about abortion than Democrats.

An example of a Catholic so militant she helped organize the fake Republican electors for Arizona and Wisconsin to try to overturn the 2020 to keep Trump, the loser, in office,

Virginia "Ginni" Thomas (née Lamp; born February 23, 1957) is an American attorney and conservativeactivist. In 1987, she married Clarence Thomas, who became an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States in 1991. Her conservative commentary and activism have made her a controversial figure, especially because spouses of Supreme Court justices typically avoid politics.[2]​

I already answered

NFBW: That was not an answer.

If you believe Jefferson was a Christian do you define a Christian as one who does not believe in the divinity of Christ.

Do you think Jefferson was not a founding father?

END2210020629

 

[NotfooledbyW]

You are why cant i be

What have I written specifically that is absurd.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Obama stopped it? Obama was elected in 2008.

NFBW: It is typical of a Christianized nationalist racist to blame Obama for removing the Ten Commandments from Courthouses because it is much more effective to have an angry black man with an African sounding surname to be the instigator of eliminating a sacramental shining object of white Christian privilege in America. END2210020653

 

[presonorek]

END2210020653

BEGIN2430112651

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Belonging to a church, and being Christian were two very different things.

NFBW: So it’s your faith not your facts or data that most people were Christians who were living in the English colonies in 1776

Generally most people were "Christian" at that time.

END2210020704

 

[frigidweirdo]

NFBW: So it’s your faith not your facts or data that most people were Christians who were living in the English colonies in 1776

END2210020704

A matter of logic, really.

Firstly we have to be able to read the statistics. Like I said, they're probably very faulty because huge swathes of the population were almost certainly not considered.

Secondly England was a Christian country and most Americans were from Europe. The slaves were slaves, I doubt they were counted, but they were probably forced to go to church services but would have practiced their own religions.

The white Europeans would have been Christian. But what does "Christian" mean?

It could go from baptized, married in a church, buried in a Christian cemetery, to being a firm, firm believer and preaching.

Ask many people in England if they go to church,

6.02 million regular churchgoers in the UK

Charitable giving is a key characteristic amongest 6.02 million regular UK churchgoers.

www.compassionuk.org

About 6 million say they go to church every month, out of a population of 65 million people, however those who are religious is higher than this.

How religious are British people? | YouGov

A quarter of Britons say they believe in ‘a god’. Four in ten neither believe in ‘a god’ nor in a ‘higher power’

yougov.co.uk

48% say they're religious. 36.3% say they belong to a church. But clearly 23.5 million people being religious Christians, and only 6 million go to a church "at least once a month".

This is in modern times, with an influx of British Indian subjects into the UK, keeping their British Indian religions (Islam, Sikh, Hindu etc) plus other people coming in.

In the olden times the policing of a country was done through morals to a certain extent which came from religion.

But in the US many of those who went there, did so for religious reasons. They might not want the government or an authority to find out about their religious practices, and no one would have done.
So, I'm saying a dude went and got some statistics, and is trying to claim his stats show the whole picture. I simply don't see that.

When the census came along with religious questions, the number of religious people suddenly started to increase. Coincidence? I think not. The more interconnected society is, the more government got in people's lives, the more religion increased? I think not.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Did they literally go around rural America, into the frontier lands

NFBW: In the 1770s residents of the 13 British colonies were living through a downturn of Christian religion in the New World because Christianity in the colonies was a manifestation of the law and government coercion on the land under a crazy King and his monarchy being the representative of God on earth. There was little to no Church of Rome Christianity represented in the British Colonies at the time. The Papists were loathed and feared and ridiculed and not welcome by the white English settlers in the New World . END2210020724

 

[NotfooledbyW]

A matter of logic, really.

Firstly we have to be able to read the statistics. Like I said, they're probably very faulty because huge swathes of the population were almost certainly not considered.

Secondly England was a Christian country and most Americans were from Europe. The slaves were slaves, I doubt they were counted, but they were probably forced to go to church services but would have practiced their own religions.

The white Europeans would have been Christian. But what does "Christian" mean?

It could go from baptized, married in a church, buried in a Christian cemetery, to being a firm, firm believer and preaching.

Ask many people in England if they go to church,

6.02 million regular churchgoers in the UK

Charitable giving is a key characteristic amongest 6.02 million regular UK churchgoers.

www.compassionuk.org

About 6 million say they go to church every month, out of a population of 65 million people, however those who are religious is higher than this.

How religious are British people? | YouGov

A quarter of Britons say they believe in ‘a god’. Four in ten neither believe in ‘a god’ nor in a ‘higher power’

yougov.co.uk

48% say they're religious. 36.3% say they belong to a church. But clearly 23.5 million people being religious Christians, and only 6 million go to a church "at least once a month".

This is in modern times, with an influx of British Indian subjects into the UK, keeping their British Indian religions (Islam, Sikh, Hindu etc) plus other people coming in.

In the olden times the policing of a country was done through morals to a certain extent which came from religion.

But in the US many of those who went there, did so for religious reasons. They might not want the government or an authority to find out about their religious practices, and no one would have done.
So, I'm saying a dude went and got some statistics, and is trying to claim his stats show the whole picture. I simply don't see that.

When the census came along with religious questions, the number of religious people suddenly started to increase. Coincidence? I think not. The more interconnected society is, the more government got in people's lives, the more religion increased? I think not.

Thanks for a thought out and intelligent response - they are rare around here - will get back to you soon.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

A matter of logic, really.

Yes it is. Some interesting reading as we consider the logic of America’s founding era that ended with the the deaths of Adam’s and Jefferson on the same day.

Cane Ridge Kentucky Revival

Revival at Cane Ridge | Christian History Magazine

Revival at Cane Ridge

ic-sh-post-mail.schools

FRIDAY, AUGUST 6, 1801—wagons and carriages bounced along narrow Kentucky roads, kicking up dust and excitement as hundreds of men, women, and children pressed toward Cane Ridge, a church about 20 miles east of Lexington. They hungered to partake in what everyone felt was sure to be an extraordinary “Communion.”

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Did they literally go around rural America, into the frontier lands and find out how many people went to church? I doubt it.

I hang my hat on historical records as well:

Egyptian Darkness​

Five years earlier, few would have predicted the Cane Ridge revival. Since the American Revolution, Christianity had been on the decline, especially on the frontier. Sporadic, scattered revivals—in Virginia in 178788, for example—dotted the landscape, but they were short-lived. Religious indifference seemed to be spreading.

On a trip to Tennessee in 1794, Methodist bishop Francis Asbury wrote anxiously about frontier settlers, “When I reflect that not one in a hundred came here to get religion, but rather to get plenty of good land, I think it will be well if some or many do not eventually lose their souls.”

Andrew Fulton, a Presbyterian missionary from Scotland, discovered in Nashville and in “all the newly formed towns in this western colony, there are few religious people.” The minutes of the frontier Transylvania Presbytery reveal deep concern about the “prevalence of vice & infidelity, the great apparent declension of true vital religion in too many places.”

Rampant alcoholism and avaricious land-grabbing were matched by the increasing popularity of both universalism (the doctrine that all will be saved) and deism (the belief that God is uninvolved in the world). Methodist James Smith, traveling near Lexington in the autumn of 1795 feared that “the universalists, joining with the Deists, had given Christianity a deadly stab hereabouts.”

Hyperbole, perhaps. Still, during the six years preceding 1800, the Methodist Church—most popular among the expanding middle and lower classes—declined in national membership from 67,643 to 61,351. In the 1790s the population of frontier Kentucky tripled, but the already meager Methodist membership decreased.

Churches and pastors did not merely wring their hands; they clasped them in prayer—at prayer meetings, at worship, and at national conventions. In 1798 the Presbyterian General Assembly asked that a day be set aside for fasting, humiliation, and prayer to redeem the frontier from “Egyptian darkness.”

Church discipline was thrown into high gear. Church minute books record those excluded from fellowship for alcoholism, profanity, mistreatment of slaves, and sexual immorality. Some congregations were so exacting, they decimated their ranks. No matter, they said; sinning had to be stopped in order that God might again bless.

Revival at Cane Ridge | Christian History Magazine

Christian History Institute (CHI) provides church history resources and self-study material and publishes the quarterly Christian History Magazine. Our aim is to make Christian history enjoyable and applicable to the widest possible audience.

christianhistoryinstitute.org

 

[frigidweirdo]

NFBW: In the 1770s residents of the 13 British colonies were living through a downturn of Christian religion in the New World because Christianity in the colonies was a manifestation of the law and government coercion on the land under a crazy King and his monarchy being the representative of God on earth. There was little to no Church of Rome Christianity represented in the British Colonies at the time. The Papists were loathed and feared and ridiculed and not welcome by the white English settlers in the New World . END2210020724

Doesn't mean these people didn't believe in a Christian God. It meant they turned against the state religion, the Church of England and maybe the Catholic Church.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I hang my hat on historical records as well:

Egyptian Darkness​

Five years earlier, few would have predicted the Cane Ridge revival. Since the American Revolution, Christianity had been on the decline, especially on the frontier. Sporadic, scattered revivals—in Virginia in 178788, for example—dotted the landscape, but they were short-lived. Religious indifference seemed to be spreading.

On a trip to Tennessee in 1794, Methodist bishop Francis Asbury wrote anxiously about frontier settlers, “When I reflect that not one in a hundred came here to get religion, but rather to get plenty of good land, I think it will be well if some or many do not eventually lose their souls.”

Andrew Fulton, a Presbyterian missionary from Scotland, discovered in Nashville and in “all the newly formed towns in this western colony, there are few religious people.” The minutes of the frontier Transylvania Presbytery reveal deep concern about the “prevalence of vice & infidelity, the great apparent declension of true vital religion in too many places.”

Rampant alcoholism and avaricious land-grabbing were matched by the increasing popularity of both universalism (the doctrine that all will be saved) and deism (the belief that God is uninvolved in the world). Methodist James Smith, traveling near Lexington in the autumn of 1795 feared that “the universalists, joining with the Deists, had given Christianity a deadly stab hereabouts.”

Hyperbole, perhaps. Still, during the six years preceding 1800, the Methodist Church—most popular among the expanding middle and lower classes—declined in national membership from 67,643 to 61,351. In the 1790s the population of frontier Kentucky tripled, but the already meager Methodist membership decreased.

Churches and pastors did not merely wring their hands; they clasped them in prayer—at prayer meetings, at worship, and at national conventions. In 1798 the Presbyterian General Assembly asked that a day be set aside for fasting, humiliation, and prayer to redeem the frontier from “Egyptian darkness.”

Church discipline was thrown into high gear. Church minute books record those excluded from fellowship for alcoholism, profanity, mistreatment of slaves, and sexual immorality. Some congregations were so exacting, they decimated their ranks. No matter, they said; sinning had to be stopped in order that God might again bless.

Revival at Cane Ridge | Christian History Magazine

Christian History Institute (CHI) provides church history resources and self-study material and publishes the quarterly Christian History Magazine. Our aim is to make Christian history enjoyable and applicable to the widest possible audience.

christianhistoryinstitute.org

And what is being revived? Christianity in the minds of people, or active participation?

 

[elektra]

NFBW: There are more Catholic Democrats than Catholic Republicans - it’s just that Republicans are militant and make more noise about abortion than Democrats.

You are full of shit. Militant Catholics? Militant Republicans?

Black lives matter and antifa

Fake electors, in your dreams

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Fake electors, in your dreams

I thought you people want to eliminate election fraud.

Oh Well -

Emails, records and reporting indicate the that Thomas, a conservative activist and the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, was involved in some aspects of a scheme involving “fake electors” after the 2020 election and was also in touch with Trump lawyer John Eastman about his strategies to overturn the election results. Ginni Thomas to meet with House committee investigating Jan. 6 riot​

 

[NotfooledbyW]

And what is being revived?

Christianity, because it was dying out in 1776 like the research said . 17% church attendance in 1776 is very believable.

 

[kjw47]

This shows why not having a state religion is important. There are a lot of religions. For the believer to say there is only one true religion is fine. For the gov't to take that stance is not fine.

If you read the story of satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness, he assures Jesus he controls every kingdom( govt, armies, supporters) on earth. That is why they take that stance. In the OT, God had a single religion, the king was spiritual. In Gods kingdom he has a king, not a democracy or anything else. A spiritual leader. God allows Govts of men, but satan rules them.

 

[elektra]

IEmails, records and reporting indicate the that Thomas, a conservative activist and the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, was involved in some aspects of a scheme involving “fake electors” after the 2020 election and was also in touch with Trump lawyer John Eastman about his strategies to overturn the election results. Ginni Thomas to meet with House committee investigating Jan. 6 riot

fake electors? yet in compliance with Article 2 section 1 of the constitution

Reporting indicates? That makes me laugh, CNN or MSNBC reporting?

 

[elektra]

What have I written specifically that is absurd.

you would just disagree

 

[elektra]

NFBW: Let me include the part just before the latter quote that your cherry picking missed:

The truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of Jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.​

​

So elektra do you believe in and/or support the artificial scaffolding of the militant white half of American Catholicism and white Trump Republican evangelical Protestant nationalism that Jefferson and Adams hoped would die out but hasn’t yet.? END2210010232

Christian or not a Christian, geez, that is a hard one is it not, unless of course you ignore what Jefferson did with his life.
I like how Jefferson treated his slaves, how about you? One could say Jefferson was the best Christian to the slaves. You agree, of course, right?

https://www.monticello.org/research-education/thomas-jefferson-encyclopedia/life-morals-jesus-nazareth/

The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, known today as The Jefferson Bible, is Thomas Jefferson's own compilation of the four gospels in the New Testament. Jefferson cut out excerpts from six New Testament volumes in English, French, Latin, and Greek, and then assembled them together in this single volume. He arranged his chosen passages to create a chronological account of Jesus' life, parables, and moral teachings. He omitted passages that he deemed insupportable through reason or that he believed were later embellishments, including references to Jesus' miracles and his resurrection. In doing so, Jefferson sought to clarify Jesus' moral teachings, which he believed provided "the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man