Zone1 We need to Return to 1940's Values on Sex Outside Marriage. Desperately.

What about sex between partners who are infertile, or past the age of childbearing? The GREATEST purpose for sex is in bonding the couple. Yes, sex is necessary to procreate, but procreation is possible without bonding.
The point is that people who are infertile or past the age of childbearing can still be open to welcoming a child should new life begin. No is suggesting if one cannot have a child that one should stop having sex.
 
1) Mandatory Christian moral education from an early age.
2) Banning of all leftwing stories pushing sexual immorality and bashing Christianity.
3) Government to stop playing the daddy role, constantly giving away goodies that parents should be providing.
Violates the 1st Amendment on counts 1 and 2.
 
I just read an article this morning that singer Katy Perry and actor Orlando Bloom just ended their nine-year "engagement". A casualty of this failed shack up is their four-year-old daughter. The story was reported without the bat of an eye. Just more humdrum news. More of the same.

Contrast this to 1949 when actress Ingrid Bergman conceived a child out of wedlock and was banned from Hollywood. Huge scandal. Huge news event.

America and the world had those high moral standards through the 1940s into the first half of the 1950's. People think the 60s ushered in sexual immorality, but it really started in the late 50s. In 1959, Some Like it Hot won the Academy Award. Why? Not because it was a great movie, but because it had gay sexual inneundo at the end.



This decline in sexual morality manifests itself in encouragement of: sex outside marriage, contraception, abortion, pornography, homosexuality, masturbation, and abortion.

The sexual revolution, also known as the sexual liberation, was a social movement that challenged traditional codes of behavior related to sexuality and interpersonal relationships throughout the Western world from the late 1950s to the early 1970s. Sexual liberation included increased acceptance of sexual intercourse outside of traditional heterosexual, monogamous relationships, primarily marriage. The legalization of the pill as well as other forms of contraception, public nudity, pornography, premarital sex, homosexuality, masturbation, alternative forms of sexuality, and abortion all followed

Incidentally, by 1957, Bergmann had been forgiven and welcomed back to Hollywood. Again, changing mores. Change for the worse.

Changes in the divorce rate: You can see by the chart, divorces were minimal until 1960, then skyrocketed in the 70s, then reduced somewhat. But the drop was related not to a renewed view of sanctity of marriage; but rather to an increase in cohabitations, which have a higher fail rate than marriages. In short, the total percentage of relatiionships combined licit and illicit has been increasingly failing since 1960.

Some will say "People have always engaged in illicit sex throughout all periods". True. But we are talking about societal sanction. That's the all-important difference. Because once society approves and encourages a behavior, that behavior increases markedly.

You may wonder why sexual moral standards were higher in the 1940s. I say it's because people's character was forged by difficult times: The Great Depression followed by World War II. In bad times, people turn to God. In good times, people become more lax. As America becomes more prosperous, we get morally lax.

I find it interesting the Catholic Church also had it's highest number of priests and sisters in the 1940s and 50s. Those numbers fell right along with the sexual revolution, showing the overall deterioration of society. People are less willing to give up earthly comforts for the sake of others. It's an overall weakening forged by permissiveness. It's a selfish self-comfort. Same with illicit sex. It all goes together.

Conclusion: Immoral sex may seem so simple, innocent, and victimless. In reality, it is among the most dangerous and destructive of all sins because of its pervasiveness. It destroys relationships, objectifies women, derails commitment, creates unwanted children, and numbs people's ability to have meaningful relationships. The promotion illicit sex is done on purpose. Overall, it is Marxists trying to weaken powerful Christian nations, especially the United States, to make us ripe for takeover. This is why illicit sex is sanctioned and encouraged by the leftist media. That trend started in earnest in the mid-1950s.

What will bring us back? If history is a guide, it may take catastrophe to make people refocus on God. Tough times bring out character in people to live in service to others. Or we can be like the people of Ninevah who heeded the warnings of destruction and repented on their own, thus saving themselves.

View attachment 1129383
Divorce rate through the decades



The assertion that cohabiting relationships fail more often than marriages is supported by various studies and reports. Research indicates that couples who live together before marriage are more likely to experience divorce compared to those who do not cohabit before tying the knot.
Factors Contributing to This Trend:
  • Lack of Commitment: Cohabiting couples might not have the same level of commitment to the relationship as married couples. This lack of commitment can make it easier to dissolve the relationship when difficulties arise.
  • Inertia: Couples may find themselves "sliding" into cohabitation out of convenience rather than consciously deciding to commit to the relationship. This inertia can lead to less marital satisfaction and increase the likelihood of divorce.
  • Financial and Practical Considerations: Moving in together for financial reasons or convenience might lead to a less stable foundation for a future marriage compared to cohabiting to spend more time together.
  • Pre-engagement Cohabitation: Studies show that couples who cohabit before getting engaged are more likely to divorce compared to those who cohabit only after being engaged or married.
  • Accumulating Cohabiting Partners: Having a history of multiple cohabiting partners can increase the risk of divorce later, even if the couple eventually marries.

















After reading the OP, I'm guessing you can't get laid, and you're mad at those of us that can.
 
I'd like to see a link on that specious claim of "half of all spread of STD's". Gay men do have higher rates of STD's, but nowhere near half of all STD's.

Also stop sharing your thoughts on women. You have no idea what you're talking about. Women's sex drive is JUST as strong as men's, moron. I was immediately reminded that in sex education classes when I was high school, the girls were told that if things got "out of hand", it was the fault of the girl, because boys are more easily turned on than the girls, and really can't help themselves, so it was up to us to keep things from going "too far".

This statement made no logical sense. If sexual stimulation happened with increased blood flow to the sexual organs, it made sense that girls got excited quicker because the blood had a shorter distance to travel to get to our sex organs than the boys. Their penis is further from heart than the vagina.


MAGA idiocy at its finest. There is no greater indication of the moral decline of the USA than their election of a 3 times married, 6 times bankrupt, convicted felon, sexual abuser, incompetent liar.

Bleating "TDS" every time we point out these FACTS is so distressing to you fools, you have to deflect your Cultish devotion to this criminal, shows the extent of YOUR derangement.
The STD rates gay men are readily available on the CDC web site.

As for the sex drive of men, I speak from observation growing up. Boys and men basically go after pretty much anything they can get, as where girls seem more selective. Women also have the added concern of getting pregnant which tends to put a wet blanket on the whole affair. And from what I have heard and seen, women turn down men more often than men turning down women for sex. The old adage, "I have a headache" is a common one.
 
I just read an article this morning that singer Katy Perry and actor Orlando Bloom just ended their nine-year "engagement". A casualty of this failed shack up is their four-year-old daughter. The story was reported without the bat of an eye. Just more humdrum news. More of the same.

Contrast this to 1949 when actress Ingrid Bergman conceived a child out of wedlock and was banned from Hollywood. Huge scandal. Huge news event.

America and the world had those high moral standards through the 1940s into the first half of the 1950's. People think the 60s ushered in sexual immorality, but it really started in the late 50s. In 1959, Some Like it Hot won the Academy Award. Why? Not because it was a great movie, but because it had gay sexual inneundo at the end.



This decline in sexual morality manifests itself in encouragement of: sex outside marriage, contraception, abortion, pornography, homosexuality, masturbation, and abortion.

The sexual revolution, also known as the sexual liberation, was a social movement that challenged traditional codes of behavior related to sexuality and interpersonal relationships throughout the Western world from the late 1950s to the early 1970s. Sexual liberation included increased acceptance of sexual intercourse outside of traditional heterosexual, monogamous relationships, primarily marriage. The legalization of the pill as well as other forms of contraception, public nudity, pornography, premarital sex, homosexuality, masturbation, alternative forms of sexuality, and abortion all followed

Incidentally, by 1957, Bergmann had been forgiven and welcomed back to Hollywood. Again, changing mores. Change for the worse.

Changes in the divorce rate: You can see by the chart, divorces were minimal until 1960, then skyrocketed in the 70s, then reduced somewhat. But the drop was related not to a renewed view of sanctity of marriage; but rather to an increase in cohabitations, which have a higher fail rate than marriages. In short, the total percentage of relatiionships combined licit and illicit has been increasingly failing since 1960.

Some will say "People have always engaged in illicit sex throughout all periods". True. But we are talking about societal sanction. That's the all-important difference. Because once society approves and encourages a behavior, that behavior increases markedly.

You may wonder why sexual moral standards were higher in the 1940s. I say it's because people's character was forged by difficult times: The Great Depression followed by World War II. In bad times, people turn to God. In good times, people become more lax. As America becomes more prosperous, we get morally lax.

I find it interesting the Catholic Church also had it's highest number of priests and sisters in the 1940s and 50s. Those numbers fell right along with the sexual revolution, showing the overall deterioration of society. People are less willing to give up earthly comforts for the sake of others. It's an overall weakening forged by permissiveness. It's a selfish self-comfort. Same with illicit sex. It all goes together.

Conclusion: Immoral sex may seem so simple, innocent, and victimless. In reality, it is among the most dangerous and destructive of all sins because of its pervasiveness. It destroys relationships, objectifies women, derails commitment, creates unwanted children, and numbs people's ability to have meaningful relationships. The promotion illicit sex is done on purpose. Overall, it is Marxists trying to weaken powerful Christian nations, especially the United States, to make us ripe for takeover. This is why illicit sex is sanctioned and encouraged by the leftist media. That trend started in earnest in the mid-1950s.

What will bring us back? If history is a guide, it may take catastrophe to make people refocus on God. Tough times bring out character in people to live in service to others. Or we can be like the people of Ninevah who heeded the warnings of destruction and repented on their own, thus saving themselves.

View attachment 1129383
Divorce rate through the decades



The assertion that cohabiting relationships fail more often than marriages is supported by various studies and reports. Research indicates that couples who live together before marriage are more likely to experience divorce compared to those who do not cohabit before tying the knot.
Factors Contributing to This Trend:
  • Lack of Commitment: Cohabiting couples might not have the same level of commitment to the relationship as married couples. This lack of commitment can make it easier to dissolve the relationship when difficulties arise.
  • Inertia: Couples may find themselves "sliding" into cohabitation out of convenience rather than consciously deciding to commit to the relationship. This inertia can lead to less marital satisfaction and increase the likelihood of divorce.
  • Financial and Practical Considerations: Moving in together for financial reasons or convenience might lead to a less stable foundation for a future marriage compared to cohabiting to spend more time together.
  • Pre-engagement Cohabitation: Studies show that couples who cohabit before getting engaged are more likely to divorce compared to those who cohabit only after being engaged or married.
  • Accumulating Cohabiting Partners: Having a history of multiple cohabiting partners can increase the risk of divorce later, even if the couple eventually marries.

















The 1940's had its issues and most prominently, the way blacks were treated as less than equal, especially in the Dixie Democrat south. For half of the 1940's we were bogged down with a bloody war in which many young men's lives were lost.
Moving on.
The good things about the 1940's was the music, the low crime, so low that people would drive around with rifles in the backs of their pickups or handguns in their glove compartment with no concern about them being stolen. Homes could be left unlocked without the fear of burglary. Schools had dress codes, which negated gang activity. Illegal drugs were a minimal thing. The music was classier and one breadwinner could support the entire family. As to divorce, it was minimal and people cared about how they appeared in public as to attire.
Causes for some of the issues we see today. In the past, mankind (don't get me going on a demanding that I use the word "personkind") I'm old school. In the past, mankind was largely agrarian and thus families had to stick together to keep the nuclear family afloat. Along came the industrial era and those youths or people sick of struggling on farming in hopes of improving their lives, moved to the cities where they could get work and pay. Doing this, distanced the nuclear family and of course family ties.
Religious beliefs were entrenched into everyday life and most of it in the US and Europe, fell into the category of Catholicism and Protestantism. The young men seeking to date or marry a young woman, had to meet the parents and if he wanted to marry the young woman, had to ask permission from the head of household. That young man had to convince the head of household that he would provide a decent living for the woman he wanted. Go back a bit further than the 40's, and the couple had to be chaperoned by a family member when going out. The Catholics did not allow divorce and women who came to hate their spouse were forced to continue living with their husband and making their lives miserable. In the Catholic ideology, "you married, so you will live and die together, get over it." In Protestantism and the Church of England, you could divorce and as they could, they no longer had to suffer living with the man or woman they were stuck with. So there was divorce, it just wasn't as public as it is in this era. Women that had babies out of wedlock were shamed and if minors living at home, they were taken out of school and "sent away" to end that shame. Women rose up and stood against those that sought to deny them their equality and personal freedoms.
As time went on, the nuclear family became more and more distanced and the youth that used to attend church with their family, drifted away from it. Over time, after leaving religion behind, so to were biblical morals. The influx of people from non-Christian migrated here, objections to religious prayer and the Ten Commandments shown in the public schools were objected to. After all, to have religious freedoms means you can't push your religion on those of other religions. This subsequently meant the end of Christian religion in school.
No matter what nation you live in, all of them have a percentage of the population that are criminals, whether, thieves, rapists, murderers, et cetera. As the population increases, so too will the criminals, in proportion to the increase.
Youths in this era, having time on their hands and not having a two-pent household, need brain stimulation/activity and thus get into trouble when left to their own devices. My daughter-in-law and her husband adopted the parenting style of "keep the kids occupied and exhausted after school to keep them from getting into mischievousness. It sure seems to be working. Sadly, many families, especially those with only one parent, don't have that option and their kids gravitate to the youths they happen to know and get into crime.
We can't violate religious beliefs and the separation of church and state. As an Atheist, I stick with this. However, if there is school choice across the US and the government helps fund the students to be able for the parents to place them in private/religious schools, I would see no problem with this, except when it comes to Islam. The followers of that one, admit they are a "conquering religion" and must change all religions to theirs, by any means necessary. It's Death Cult that needs to be forced out of the US and our Constitution shouldn't be a "Death Pact" by allowing it to expand and end us.
 
Violates the 1st Amendment on counts 1 and 2.
No, it doesn't.
Your definition of immorality centres on sexual behavior. My definition of immorality centres on lying cheating and treating other people disrespectfully.
Again, ALL of your definition or morality is centered on SEX. Society isn't being harmed by changes in sexual morality. The decline in morality is in PUBLIC morality.
In my OP, I used the term 'sexual morality'. That's obviously the type of morality I'm talking about. There are other types of morality. That's the type you're talking about.
You clearly voted for Donald Trump - a man who cheats in business, lies every time he opens his mouth, and sexually assaults women he finds attractive and ignores the law. Such a man would never even be nominated in 1950, but you voter for him, more than once.
Your cartoon version of Trump isn't reality. Thankfully, the American voters didn't buy it. Trump is a great competent leader.

 
The rising relationship failures are a staggering neon sign that something is very wrong. (Divorces PLUS failed "live-in" relationships, when they are counted together, the projected failure rate is near 70%)
But it has nothing to do with pre-marital sex. At all.
And has everything to do with kids not having selfishness taught out of them, so they simply grow up to be selfish adults - as well extremely poor social skills due to kids constantly-constantly on social media instead of being around real people.

Pre-marital sex is a positive thing.
Premarital sex violates God's law. It inevitably leads to bad results. It is also a selfish act which fits in with what you're talking about.
 
What about yourself? You talk a big game, but how do YOU act?
I've been married to the same woman for 37 years. We never had sex prior to marrying. Long engagements are for the birds.
 
Yes, it does. Anyone who has ever studied the First Amendment knows that the establishment clause will never be challenged. You are a religious nut job, which it was designed to prevent!

Try reading it for comprehension next time.
In general, school boards have the authority to decide what curriculum is taught in their schools, including matters related to sexual health and well-being.

And that's what this is.

wiki AI
 
In general, school boards have the authority to decide what curriculum is taught in their schools, including matters related to sexual health and well-being.

And that's what this is.

wiki AI
What does that have to do with religion? You cannot impose arbitrary religious views on public education. Never could and never will.
 
What does that have to do with religion? You cannot impose arbitrary religious views on public education. Never could and never will.
Christian views are also sensible moral views. You don't need to put a name on them. Just enact them. Perfectly legal.
 
Premarital sex violates God's law. It inevitably leads to bad results. It is also a selfish act which fits in with what you're talking about.

Premarital sex has absolutely nothing to do with why relationships fail.
Zero.
 
Since I am not a Catholic, I am curious. Do you castigate married couples who have sexual relations only when pregnancy is less likely? What about enjoyable activities between a married couple that result in great sexual pleasure but not in semen being introduced to the vagina? I've always wondered just how far Catholics take this doctrine.

I've always held that what a married couple does behind their bedroom door by themselves is their business and God's only. Does the Church feel it has the moral imperative to intrude on that sacred ground?

Depends on the church. I've seen some churches decree that anything other than sex between a man and a woman in the missionary position for the purpose of procreation is fine, but if you have sex for the fun of it, trying new positions, oral sex, or something that cannot lead to procreation, this is WANTON LUST and is sinful.
The point is that people who are infertile or past the age of childbearing can still be open to welcoming a child should new life begin. No is suggesting if one cannot have a child that one should stop having sex.

Yeah, they actually are. The Mormons say that couples shouldn't be having sex if they're not trying to have a baby. They're not the only ones.

The Catholic Church teaches:

"The Church teaches that the sexual act itself must always have its intrinsic ordering toward the generation of children. What this means is that the couple can never do anything to intentionally thwart the procreative end of sex, since procreation is what sex is for. To do so would be to violate human nature, and thus to violate God’s will."


I would take that to read that avoiding sex during ovulation would qualify as "intentionally thwarting the procreative end of sex".

The Catholics have always been obsessed and crazy about sex, which is why they have so many sex scandals. Nothing violates human nature, and thus to violate God’s will
The point is that people who are infertile or past the age of childbearing can still be open to welcoming a child should new life begin. No is suggesting if one cannot have a child that one should stop having sex.

When you are "past the age of child bearing" there will be no pregnancy. Once a woman has stopped menstrating, it's over. There are no "surprises". You can't get pregnant without eggs, and if you're not menstrating, there is no possibility of pregnancy. It's over.
 
Premarital sex violates God's law. It inevitably leads to bad results. It is also a selfish act which fits in with what you're talking about.

Where is "God's law" regarding premarital sex? THERE IS NO SUCH LAW.

In fact, in Biblical times, intercourse went with betrothal. It confirmed fertility if the woman became pregnant.


In regards to your obsession with the notion that nobody had sex before marriage in the 50's, there's an old expression my mother used to say back then: When a couple gets married, their first child can come at any time. The second one takes 9 months.
 
15th post
I would take that to read that avoiding sex during ovulation would qualify as "intentionally thwarting the procreative end of sex".

The Catholics have always been obsessed and crazy about sex, which is why they have so many sex scandals. Nothing violates human nature, and thus to violate God’s will
And you would be wrong. The Catholic Church provides classes on natural family planning. Further, you describe the celebratory way Catholics approach sex using the wrong adjectives. The main point of Catholic teaching is that sex should be reserved for married couples.
 
Where is "God's law" regarding premarital sex? THERE IS NO SUCH LAW.
It's called fornication. Routinely condemned in the Bible
In regards to your obsession with the notion that nobody had sex before marriage in the 50's, there's an old expression my mother used to say back then: When a couple gets married, their first child can come at any time. The second one takes 9 months.
I never said that. You people don't read the OP.
"Some will say "People have always engaged in illicit sex throughout all periods". True. But we are talking about societal sanction. That's the all-important difference. Because once society approves and encourages a behavior, that behavior increases markedly."
 
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