Zone1 We need a left vs. right experiment

[progressive hunter]

Questions for which you have no answer.

Can the event giver make any requirement they want when a person agrees to buy a ticket?

how is taylor going to enforce anything outside the venue,, let alone 100 miles away??

 

[Bitterhook]

Interesting.
If Taylor Swift put a clause on all of her tickets, that purchase of the ticket, means they can't bring a firearm within 100 miles of the venue.

That would be legal, and O.K. with you?

It doesn't matter if I think it would be okay, outside of the fact that Taylor Swift couldn't actually establish the requirement, and would have to ask the property owner to do so.

No one (including me) that does not agree to the terms of the contract associated with the purchase of a ticket is required to go to a Taylo Swift event, and it has nothing to do with federal law outside of property rights.

Plus, I am not an authoritarian, and whatever the heck I think is 'okay' does not mean that it should be a law you have to follow.

 

[postman]

Not arguing because that is a very good point considering the times we are in.

It may be wise to indicate there is no 'federal statute' that forbids yelling fire in a crowded theater, or someone will find a local ordinance from Podunk, Wherever that may actually forbid the practice.

If it's a government theatre or property, then there is a law against it.

18 U.S. Code § 1752 pertains to restricted buildings or grounds.

The law also prohibits actions that impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of government business or official functions within these areas

Whether it's yelling fire, or pulling a fire alarm, it's against the law if there is no fire.

 

[postman]

when you find one you let us know,,

18 U.S. Code § 1752 pertains to restricted buildings or grounds. It states that:

The law also prohibits actions that impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of government business or official functions within these areas

 

[postman]

how is taylor going to enforce anything outside the venue,, let alone 100 miles away??

Enforcement is separate issue.

The question is can they make such a contract by the purchase of a ticket?

 

[progressive hunter]

18 U.S. Code § 1752 pertains to restricted buildings or grounds. It states that:

The law also prohibits actions that impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of government business or official functions within these areas

not see where it says you cant yell fire in a crowded theater,,

 

[postman]

It doesn't matter if I think it would be okay, outside of the fact that Taylor Swift couldn't actually establish the requirement, and would have to ask the property owner to do so.

No one (including me) that does not agree to the terms of the contract associated with the purchase of a ticket is required to go to a Taylo Swift event, and it has nothing to do with federal law outside of property rights.

Plus, I am not an authoritarian, and whatever the heck I think is 'okay' does not mean that it should be a law you have to follow.

People seem to be dancing around the basic question of what rights can be given away by the purchase of a commercial ticket?

 

[progressive hunter]

Enforcement is separate issue.

The question is can they make such a contract by the purchase of a ticket?

no its not,,,

no contract is signed when you purchase a ticket,,
you give them money they give you a ticket, and before you can enter they tell you you cant have weapons in there,, they dont search anyone or can put you in jail if you go ahead and carry one,,
they can only kick you out,,

are you going to explain what you mean by regulate??

 

[progressive hunter]

People seem to be dancing around the basic question of what rights can be given away by the purchase of a commercial ticket?

we just hope you stop dancing,,

 

[Bitterhook]

If it's a government theatre or property, then there is a law against it.

18 U.S. Code § 1752 pertains to restricted buildings or grounds.

The law also prohibits actions that impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of government business or official functions within these areas

Whether it's yelling fire, or pulling a fire alarm, it's against the law if there is no fire.

It has nothing to do with fire, and actor yell fire on the stage in a crowded theater whenever the script calls for it.

A crowded theater is not a "restricted building or grounds" use to 'orderly conduct government business of official functions'.

Furthermore, a person may be charged with Disturbing the Peace, which is a misdemeanor and not a federal crime, or they may be ejected by the property owner for violation of the contract they agreed to when they purchased the ticket and agree to the theater's rules.

 

[JoeB131]

Which still doesn't negate the need for regular people to be armed. Unless you trust in a police state.

I think the police would be a lot more chill if they didn't have to worry that anyone they pull over for a traffic stop might be a gun nut who will start shooting at them. American Police shoot 1100 people a year. British Police shoot less than 10.

We are the militia. We're American citizens.

Really? So when was the last time the "militia" was called up?

I don't care about other so-called "Advanced Democracies".
We are who we are. If you prefer how Italy or Germany does things, by all means feel free to move there. I'll help you pack.
And the idea that they have more freedom than we do is complete bullshit.

Some of them absolutely have more freedom. Now, you are half right, in that we are who we are. They don't have our history of slavery and racism, for instance. They also haven't had 100 years of the media romanticizing guns.

The small minority is actually the number of ******* nutjobs we have in the country now as opposed to, say, not all that long ago when I was a kid.
I'm not going to give up my rights because ******* nutjobs who want to be another sex or are hallucinating because of drugs or whatever are committing acts of evil. In fact, it's all the more reason for regular citizens to be armed.

You are a tad confused. The reason why we have more shootings now is because the Gun Industry is dumping more and deadlier guns into the general population.

You see, back in the day, the NRA used to be about gun safety and supported sensible gun laws. For instance, when the Black Panthers started brandishing guns, Ronald Reagan signed a law prohibiting that sort of thing and the NRA supported it.

You can shove it up your ass. I'm a strict Constitutionalist, unlike you who's willing to flush the 2nd Amendment down the toilet because you don't like it.

I'd like to flush the second because it's no longer relevant, and the bizarro interpretation by the Gun Fetishists makes life a lot harder for those who don't need guns to feel better about themselves.

Whenever I hear the term "common sense gun laws", I know I'm dealing with a leftist clown. Same old shit, different day.
You and your phony hypocritical Leftist politicians can shove it.

Gee, why would leftist politicians want armed guards? Could it because so many have been shot by nuts with guns, like Gabby Giffords. Heck, a couple of gun nuts took pot shots at Trump.

 

[postman]

not see where it says you cant yell fire in a crowded theater,,

If it disrupts

not see where it says you cant yell fire in a crowded theater,,

1752. Restricted building or grounds
(a) Whoever-

(2) knowingly, and with intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct in, or within such proximity to, any restricted building or grounds when, or so that, such conduct, in fact, impedes or disrupts the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions;

I would say yelling fire in a crowded theatre would be a disruption.

 

[postman]

It has nothing to do with fire, and actor yell fire on the stage in a crowded theater whenever the script calls for it.

A crowded theater is not a "restricted building or grounds" use to 'orderly conduct government business of official functions'.

Furthermore, a person may be charged with Disturbing the Peace, which is a misdemeanor and not a federal crime, or they may be ejected by the property owner for violation of the contract they agreed to when they purchased the ticket and agree to the theater's rules.

It's government business OR official functions.

Like the concerts held at the Trump-Kennedy Center.

 

[Bitterhook]

People seem to be dancing around the basic question of what rights can be given away by the purchase of a commercial ticket?

The only people dancing are the ones that want to pretend the property owner doesn't have the rights they do have, and most often to suit whatever silly notion they have that it should be any different, combined with their authoritarian desire to enforce their will on others through laws, governmental overreach, and a blatant disregard for just about any freedoms and liberties the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution was established to protect.

It's like with Freedom of Speech and you can say whatever you want.
However, no one is required to give you a soapbox to stand on, listen to, or even give a damn about anything you have to say.

 

[postman]

are you ever going to explain what you mean by "well regulated"??

One covered by a body of rules and regulations, like the UCMJ. Or even the boy scout manual.

 

[JoeB131]

Not sure which of the many mental illnesses you have applies to this distortion of a post, but where does "prevent a crime" equal a "justifiable homicide". ????

One of many problems with you lying "liberals" is you lack of reading comprehension skills and your over abundance of distortions and misrepresentations.

Go back and read what I said. If you really had millions of DGUs, you should have more than 200 dead people. Especially the way most of you fantasize about shooting a darkie "Criminal" or fantasize about being like Zimmerman or Rittenhouse. (Two guys who had no business owning a gun, either.)

Problems they have in Europe and Japan would be two different situations.

Japan tends to be largely a single ethnic culture/population and since there is very little immigration and blending of ethnics and races there, seems they have less social frictions than in the Americas and Europe.

Um, okay, but the Japanese also have higher urban densities than we have, which would lead to more violence normally. They consume far more violent video games and media content than we do. (Seriously, watch some Japanese action movies sometime, they are truly bizarre.) So, of the other factors you gun nutters blame for violence, other than "Anything but my precious gun!" seem to fall flat with the Japanese. They have these things a lot worse than we do and amazingly, very little murder or crime because- wait for it - they've banned private gun ownership since the Meiji Restoration.

As for Europe, lumping all the countries together mangles the data on crimes and weapons usage. However, overall where they don't have firearms as readily available, that doesn't stop use of blades, clubs, "blunt instruments", and fists and feet, etc.

I agree. But it's a lot harder to kill someone with your feet than a gun. Therefore, they have nowhere near our murder rates. Amazing how that works. And while we seem to have mass shootings every day, in Europe they are once in a decade events in most countries.

 

[Bitterhook]

It's government business OR official functions.

Like the concerts held at the Trump-Kennedy Center.

Going to a theater is not an official government function.

Going to the Kennedy Center for the Arts for a concert is not an official government function, because the center's primary function is not a government function, and although some of their funding comes from federal appropriations, they are equally funded by both ticket sales (contract) and private donations.

If you only had a clue what you were talking about.
You know you can look it up instead of pretending you know.

 

[postman]

The only people dancing are the ones that want to pretend the property owner doesn't have the rights they do have, and most often to suit whatever silly notion they have that it should be any different, combined with their authoritarian desire to enforce their will on others through laws, governmental overreach, and a blatant disregard for just about any freedoms and liberties the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution was established to protect.

It's like with Freedom of Speech and you can say whatever you want.
However, no one is required to give you a soapbox to stand on, listen to, or even give a damn about anything you have to say.

You seem to have missed the concept of contracts aren't legal if they require waiving certain inalienable rights.

You can't waive fundamental legal rights in a contract, especially those tied to public policy, like protections against discrimination, wage theft, whistleblower retaliation, or rights to report fraud; courts also prevent waivers for gross negligence or intentional harm, and constitutional rights are non-negotiable

 

[Bitterhook]

One covered by a body of rules and regulations, like the UCMJ. Or even the boy scout manual.

Bad examples in context, because the UCMJ does not protect the rights of a solder, the same way the US Constitution protects the rights of a citizen, and the Boy Scout Manual does not refer to law federal or otherwise.

 

[postman]

Going to a theater is not an official government function.

Going to the Kennedy Center for the Arts for a concert is not an official government function, because the center's primary function is not a government function, and although some of their funding comes from federal appropriations, they are equally funded by both ticket sales (contract) and private donations.

If you only had a clue what you were talking about.
You know you can look it up instead of pretending you know.

When the government holds a "function", whether at the Trump-Kennedy Center, or at a Presidential Inaugural ball. Those are government functions.

They aren't government business, but they're still government functions.