We must eliminate hate crime laws

[beagle9]

. A practice that needs to end.

Well yeah, that's what I'm saying here. I mean, if the Republicans introduced a bill in the house that gave extra penalties for those who murder rich people, people of strong religion, and owners of big businesses, the Trump protests you see now would be nothing compared to how they would protest such a law that was introduced.

. Nah, it would all depend on the statistics that would then drive such legislation. If the stats were there, then the people would understand perfectly as to why such things are being done.

 

[kaz]

It'll happen. Hell depending on how many SC judges Trump is able to nominate, segregation may even be back on the table for you guys. Congratulations.

I don't know what that means, we have that in common.

So, explain how if someone bashes your sorry white ass in with a brick, you're better with that if it wasn't because you're white. Go ahead and explain that

 

[TheOldSchool]

It'll happen. Hell depending on how many SC judges Trump is able to nominate, segregation may even be back on the table for you guys. Congratulations.

I don't know what that means, we have that in common.

So, explain how if someone bashes your sorry white ass in with a brick, you're better with that if it wasn't because you're white. Go ahead and explain that

Because if they only bashed me because I'm white, which I'm not, the next guy who wants to bash someone just because they're white will have to think twice because of the extra punishment.

 

[Timmy]

Virtually all crime is based on motive you dinks ! Motive = what people are thinking .

It's the difference tween 1st degree murder, 2nd degree, manslaughter, and justifiable homicide.

Motive is NOT the crime in itself, nitwit. Motive is simply part of a body of evidence with regards to an actual crime.

Hate Crimes make motive it's own crime. I have a zillion motives to do many things. If I don't act on any of them, then they are irrelevant. But under "hate crime" laws, just having the motive makes me guilty of a crime. I may shove someone out of my way because they are blocking me (like idiot progressives are doing across the nation in their tantrums over getting their asses kicked). That suddenly morphs into a "hate crime" by idiot progressives trying to control society and imprison anyone who won't subscribe to their bat-shit crazy ideology.

You have no clue what you are talking about .

As a society we find crimes to change because of motives . Some worse than other .

If you run someone over by accident you don't get the death penalty . You might if you ran them over on purpose .

You have car + dead body . In both scenarios. Do you consider them the same crime ?

 

[kaz]

It'll happen. Hell depending on how many SC judges Trump is able to nominate, segregation may even be back on the table for you guys. Congratulations.

I don't know what that means, we have that in common.

So, explain how if someone bashes your sorry white ass in with a brick, you're better with that if it wasn't because you're white. Go ahead and explain that

Because if they only bashed me because I'm white, which I'm not, the next guy who wants to bash someone just because they're white will have to think twice because of the extra punishment.

Yes, obviously that's what they'd be worried about. Damn, I'd bash a white guy in the head, but this time I could be punished.

My Gawd you people are stupid

 

[ChrisL]

It'll happen. Hell depending on how many SC judges Trump is able to nominate, segregation may even be back on the table for you guys. Congratulations.

I don't know what that means, we have that in common.

So, explain how if someone bashes your sorry white ass in with a brick, you're better with that if it wasn't because you're white. Go ahead and explain that

Because if they only bashed me because I'm white, which I'm not, the next guy who wants to bash someone just because they're white will have to think twice because of the extra punishment.

If the existing punishment is not enough of a deterrent, then nothing will be. And if you feel as if the existing punishments are not enough, then make them tougher on ALL perps. A victim is no less harmed by a crime because of the motive.

 

[TheOldSchool]

It'll happen. Hell depending on how many SC judges Trump is able to nominate, segregation may even be back on the table for you guys. Congratulations.

I don't know what that means, we have that in common.

So, explain how if someone bashes your sorry white ass in with a brick, you're better with that if it wasn't because you're white. Go ahead and explain that

Because if they only bashed me because I'm white, which I'm not, the next guy who wants to bash someone just because they're white will have to think twice because of the extra punishment.

Yes, obviously that's what they'd be worried about. Damn, I'd bash a white guy in the head, but this time I could be punished.

My Gawd you people are stupid

 

[ElmerMudd]

So? What is the difference between someone who murders a person because they "felt like it" and someone who murders someone because they are a racist? The end result is the same, and one is not worse than the other.

. Ok I will try this one.. Just to be fair right... It's not that the crime of murder is any different all due to the various reasons that it was comitted, but what is different or an add to the penalty found in the law's pertaining to hate crimes is the message that it sends upon the sentencing phase................ Ok let's say you murdered someone, and you are charged for murdering someone, but then the phase of the sentencing determined next is to why you murdered someone right ?? So the message that is sent is that you are charged of course for murdering someone, and then you are charged with a hate crime that lays out exactly why you murdered the person if falls into the category (2 charges). This 2nd phase is meant to send the message to others that you best not bring harm to some one in the form of a hate crime, and if you do so being based on something as ridiculous as someone's skin color, then you are going to wish that you were not that stupid as to do such an ignorant thing as that. So you are charged with murder, and then the hate crime penalty phase if proven adds to the charge in which is meant to send a message from the justice system that you best not do something that idiotic in your life, and if you do the penalty is very high for it.

There is no evidence that extra time for 'hate crimes' acts as a deterrent any more than the regular sentences do, AFAIK.

. I disagree... If you killed someone, and you get 20 years for it, but because you cold bloodedly killed someone because of their skin color, and you get 10 more years for that, then the message sent if far more powerful in which was the intent.

Well I don't think there is any evidence that this extra time acts as a deterrence, hate crime appears to be on the rise. But if there is evidence that the extra time acts as a deterrent, then it's even worse to omit white victims of rape, for example, from that protection - in other words they should just make all sentences longer.

Sometimes they get not much more than a slap on the wrist for rape as it is, so you are right. We need to be tougher on ALL crime against ALL victims. WTH! I would be pissed off if I was raped and the guy got a year in prison, but a black woman gets raped and her assailant gets 10 years. That is NOT fair and NOT equal.

Are you against the crime od sexual harrassment? Should it just be harrassment? How do we know the thoughts in one's mind when they are harrassing?

 

[ElmerMudd]

It'll happen. Hell depending on how many SC judges Trump is able to nominate, segregation may even be back on the table for you guys. Congratulations.

I don't know what that means, we have that in common.

So, explain how if someone bashes your sorry white ass in with a brick, you're better with that if it wasn't because you're white. Go ahead and explain that

Because if they only bashed me because I'm white, which I'm not, the next guy who wants to bash someone just because they're white will have to think twice because of the extra punishment.

If the existing punishment is not enough of a deterrent, then nothing will be. And if you feel as if the existing punishments are not enough, then make them tougher on ALL perps. A victim is no less harmed by a crime because of the motive.

Simple minds, come up with simple solutions for complex situations.
Do you think if someone is hunting and a shot goes astray and kills someone, they should receive the same punishment as someone breaking into a home, shoots someone and kills them?

 

[Timmy]

Why isn't rape a "hate crime" against women? Hmm?

Using your retarded logic rape shouldn't even be a crime . After all , "assault is assault ". Grabbing a woman in the arm is the same as grabbing her by the pussy , right ?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Simple minds, come up with simple solutions for complex situations.
Do you think if someone is hunting and a shot goes astray and kills someone, they should receive the same punishment as someone breaking into a home, shoots someone and kills them?

A ridiculous question at best. One is intentional while the other is an accident. What does that have to do with the discussion of hate crimes where two intentional murders be tried two different ways?

 

[P@triot]

It'll happen. Hell depending on how many SC judges Trump is able to nominate, segregation may even be back on the table for you guys. Congratulations.

Why would you want a system in which the government can decide what was in your mind for you and for the people judging you?!?

So..intent out the window now?

Intent isn't the issue. "Hate Crimes" have nothing to do with "intent". Intent goes to action (ie your intended actions). "Hate Crime" goes to state of mind. Who could possibly know your state of mind?

If I attempt to kill you but fail, I'm brought up on attempted murder charges because my actions intended to kill you. But if I think about killing you, can I be brought up on charges? Can I?

Despite the left's best efforts otherwise, we are still allowed to think freely in this country and you cannot prosecute me for thoughts.

 

[P@triot]

So..intent out the window now?

So....double jeopardy out the window now?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

. Nah, it would all depend on the statistics that would then drive such legislation. If the stats were there, then the people would understand perfectly as to why such things are being done.

Okay, but what are the stats on offenders of gays, women, and minorities by whites in this country? Not many I assure you.

 

[P@triot]

Why isn't rape a "hate crime" against women? Hmm?

Using your retarded logic rape shouldn't even be a crime . After all , "assault is assault ". Grabbing a woman in the arm is the same as grabbing her by the pussy , right ?

Where do you get that out of what she said? That wasn't her logic at all. Why do you feel the need to lie? Grabbing a woman by the arm is assault. Grabbing her by an area considered more private becomes sexual assault. They are two separate distinctions because they are two distinct actions. Not thoughts. Actions.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes, but then special circumstances could arrise where as it is found that the mini-van wasn't just run into by the person on accident, but that it was actually a hit made by a black man who hated the white occupants in the van. Now should he be also found of committing a hate crime, in which would change the crime from an accident to a hate crime in which would bring a huge penalty (life in prison), as based upon the hate crime ruling ?? See it works both ways, and it should work both ways.

No because once again, there is a difference between murder and accidental death (manslaughter) and it doesn't (or shouldn't) matter what race was involved.

 

[P@triot]

Because if they only bashed me because I'm white, which I'm not, the next guy who wants to bash someone just because they're white will have to think twice because of the extra punishment.

Dude...murder comes with the possibility of capital punishment. If that doesn't deter someone because of their hate, do you really believe your silly "extra punishment" will?!?

 

[ElmerMudd]

Simple minds, come up with simple solutions for complex situations.
Do you think if someone is hunting and a shot goes astray and kills someone, they should receive the same punishment as someone breaking into a home, shoots someone and kills them?

A ridiculous question at best. One is intentional while the other is an accident. What does that have to do with the discussion of hate crimes where two intentional murders be tried two different ways?

Your answer makes my point.
Intent is the difference. But how do you really know the intent.The post says you cannot tell intent because you do not know what is going on in one's head so you must just look at the crime.
We have many crimes where we use evidence to determine intent. The same goes for hate crimes. Evidence will determine intent just like intent is determined in many other crimes.

 

[P@triot]

You have car + dead body . In both scenarios. Do you consider them the same crime ?

No. Because one is an accident and one is not. What does that have to do with your thoughts? If I kill someone because they are gay (to quote Hitlery Clinton) what difference does it make?!? First-degree murder is first-degree murder. Trying to tack something additional on to that based on something that cannot be proven is a special kind of stupid. It is impossible to know my state of mind and whether I killed that person because I hate homosexuals or because I just hated that person specifically.

And you still haven't addressed the double jeopardy factor.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Because if they only bashed me because I'm white, which I'm not, the next guy who wants to bash someone just because they're white will have to think twice because of the extra punishment.

Dude...murder comes with the possibility of capital punishment. If that doesn't deter someone because of their hate, do you really believe your silly "extra punishment" will?!?

Murder is not the only type of hate crime. Fuck you're dumb.