Was the Nashville shooting a hate crime?

[gipper]

yeh, Karine J-Pierre in one 'interview" with the press didn't even mention the tragedy aspect of the shooting, didn't mention the victims, muchb less offer consolation of any kind... just lectured America about how awful our gun laws are. But as Dan Bongino last night so eloquently said (among other things):

(my words, possibly) Criminals don't give a damn about gun laws

Few in the regular (ha ha to that word) media address the problem ofhow mentally SICK this person was and how an intervention could have prevented this shooting

Our culture breeds some dysfunctional individuals. It’s caused by a number of factors. Big Pharma’s drugs are certainly one of those factors. Our educational system fails to educate many, who then can’t succeed in our society and become disaffected. Also the lack of morality and ethics is yet another factor. Trust and honesty are no longer instilled in many.

Antidotal…
My older brother use to walk to school carrying his .22 rifle to school, since he was on the school shooting team. That was in the mid-1960s in Detroit. Other boys did too. No one thought they were dangerous.

 

[Circe]

No....dumb ass..........I am saying any government that has total control over the use of force can and eventually will turn on their people......as we have seen over and over again throughout history and in particular, among leftist governments since 1917........

Never mind motive.

Only consider capacity.

Interesting military advice, I've always thought.

 

[LeftofLeft]

You have to remember the other part of the equation. Guns make it much easier to kill people. I suppose bombs could kill people easier but that requires a bit of technical know how and comes with the risk of blowing yourself up. If you had murder people with a hammer or your giantly visible car, you might think twice about it. You might decide against it all together. And so it is that developed nations with a lot less access to firearms have a lot fewer murders per capita than we do. People aren't out there mass murdering people with hammers and knives to compensate.

And a lot fewer deaths per capita because those are a lot less effective at killing people. Also I doubt the veracity of this claim considering a quick Google search shows the death rate in vehicular related incidents for the United States is 12.4 and the for the UK its 2.9.

But the ability of violent people to murder others with guns will.

Guns make it easier to kill people. What is the number on threat and deterrent to people who want to kill? GUNS. Namely, their mission and possibly life will cease because of a gun.

Guns fight guns.

 

[JoeMoma]

But if the left are going to use the term Hate crime, it needs to be used equitably. It can't be a hate crime when a fag... or whatever.. is killed but not when a Christian is

My preference would be to defeat the left and not allow "hate crimes" as a type of crime. However, since the genie is out of the bottle so to speak, that may no longer be possible.

 

[Curried Goats]

What a conundrum for the left, as their silly, redundant theory of "hate crimes" was supposed to only be used to add extra punishment to right leaning people who commit crimes against minorities.

That's only your victim complex showing.

 

[Curried Goats]

Guns make it easier to kill people. What is the number on threat and deterrent to people who want to kill? GUNS. Namely, their mission and possibly life will cease because of a gun.

Guns fight guns.

If you're argument is that guns make society safer than prove it. An individual might protect themselves with a gun here or there successfully but overall the prevalence of guns has resulted in an astronomical murder rate in our society compared to the rest of the developed world. You can't fight that fact. You can only try and deflect from it.

 

[LeftofLeft]

If you're argument is that guns make society safer than prove it. An individual might protect themselves with a gun here or there successfully but overall the prevalence of guns has resulted in an astronomical murder rate in our society compared to the rest of the developed world. You can't fight that fact. You can only try and deflect from it.

I’m not deflecting. Even if you diminish gun availability, guns will still be required to protect and act as a deterrent.

 

[gipper]

If you're argument is that guns make society safer than prove it. An individual might protect themselves with a gun here or there successfully but overall the prevalence of guns has resulted in an astronomical murder rate in our society compared to the rest of the developed world. You can't fight that fact. You can only try and deflect from it.

No proof that is correct. Stop with the typical gun grabber cliches.

 

[2aguy]

Crime also went up in cities that had no bail reform you Dipshit.

The only variable that explains our over abundence of gun deaths and murder compared to rest of the developed world is the availability and access of guns.

Moron....the democrat party attack on the police affected police all over the country...you idiot......and democrat party judges and prosecutors are all over the country, not just in democrat party controlled cities...you dope.


Again.........Europe murdered 15 million people in just 6 years.....

Our entire gun murder number is about 2,460,000 for our entire 246 year history....

You are a moron.

 

[2aguy]

If you're argument is that guns make society safer than prove it. An individual might protect themselves with a gun here or there successfully but overall the prevalence of guns has resulted in an astronomical murder rate in our society compared to the rest of the developed world. You can't fight that fact. You can only try and deflect from it.

You are an idiot.....actual research....

Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct



that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—

==============

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)


2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

Clinton's study by the DOJ....

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.



n the third column of Table 6.2, we apply the Kleck and Gertz (1995) criteria for "genuine" DGUs (type A), leaving us with just 19 respondents. They represent 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known Kleck and Gertz estimate of 2.5 million, shown in the last

While ours is smaller, it is staistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. to the when we include the multiple DGUs victim. defensive reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 milli

While ours is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference petrator; in most cases (69 percent), the is due to sampling error. Note that when we include the multiple DGUs reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 million DGUs.
----

As shown in Table 6.6, the defender fired his or her gun in 27 percent of these incidents (combined "fire warning shots" and "fire at perpetrator" percentages, though some respondents reported firing both warning shots and airning at the perpetrator). Forty percent of these were "warning shots," and about a third were aimed at the perpetrator but missed. The perpetrator was wounded by the crime victim in eight percent of all DGUs. In nine percent of DGUs the victim captured and held the perpetrator at gunpoint until the police could arrive.

Obama's study...

Defensive Use of Guns

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).
National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2013. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press.

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press

 

[Curried Goats]

You are an idiot.....actual research....

Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct



that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—

==============

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)


2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

Clinton's study by the DOJ....

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.



n the third column of Table 6.2, we apply the Kleck and Gertz (1995) criteria for "genuine" DGUs (type A), leaving us with just 19 respondents. They represent 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known Kleck and Gertz estimate of 2.5 million, shown in the last

While ours is smaller, it is staistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. to the when we include the multiple DGUs victim. defensive reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 milli

While ours is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference petrator; in most cases (69 percent), the is due to sampling error. Note that when we include the multiple DGUs reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 million DGUs.
----

As shown in Table 6.6, the defender fired his or her gun in 27 percent of these incidents (combined "fire warning shots" and "fire at perpetrator" percentages, though some respondents reported firing both warning shots and airning at the perpetrator). Forty percent of these were "warning shots," and about a third were aimed at the perpetrator but missed. The perpetrator was wounded by the crime victim in eight percent of all DGUs. In nine percent of DGUs the victim captured and held the perpetrator at gunpoint until the police could arrive.

Obama's study...

Defensive Use of Guns

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).
National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2013. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press.

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press

How many of those defensive gun uses would be needed in a country not swimming in guns? Again, you Bingos can try and deflect but the murder rate speaks for itself.

 

[2aguy]

How many of those defensive gun uses would be needed in a country not swimming in guns? Again, you Bingos can try and deflect but the murder rate speaks for itself.

All of them.....criminals don't stop raping, robbing, murdering, beating and stabbing innocent people simply because they don't have a gun....

Guns make it possible for victims, in particular, women, the elderly, the handicapped, lone targets against groups of criminals, to stop the attack.......

You want all of those victims to be victims...to suffer torture, rape, murder..........for stupid points you don't even understand....

How about you answer these questions........see how brave you are...

A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......

Do you want her to use that gun to stop the rape?

A woman stops an attack with a gun, a brutal rape, torture and murder...in a public space....if you had the ability to go back in time, and prevent her from having that gun...would you?

 

[SavannahMann]

MSN

www.msn.com

As predicted, the shooter targeted Christians to unleash her rage upon them for not accepting her transition into being a male.

Specifically, her parents were associated with this church and rejected their daughters transition.

So she went to the school to shoot up a bunch of children.

I reckon, that showed them. That was the whole point to show the country how terrible Christians really are.

Should this be a hate crime?

The GOP is petitioning the DNC controlled DOJ to do just that, but in vain.

GOP senator urges FBI, DHS to launch probe of Nashville shooting as a 'hate crime' | Blaze Media

Republican Sen. Josh Hawley of Missouri is calling for the federal government to investigate the deadly shooting perpetrated at a Christian school in Nashville, Tennessee, on Monday as a hate crime."I urge you to immediately open an investigation into this shooting as a federal hate crime,"...

www.theblaze.com

Merick and the democrats are probably happy the shooter targeted a group of Christians that also oppose abortion on demand, which Merick has also been targeting in various court cases around the country.

GOP Senators Torch Garland for Targeting Pro-Life Activists in the Aftermath of Dobbs

townhall.com

In fact, when Joe Biden got up to speak about the shooting, right before he and the media started laughing and cracking jokes, as if they were giddy about the shooting up of Christians. Then Joe said "Oh by the way, the tragedy was horrible, wasn't it? (Giggles)



Not sure what happened between the shooter and her parents, but I'm 100% certain that democrats will feel worse for the shooter than the victims that they feel deserved it, just like how Merick Garland and Biden feel about it.

Just to make sure I understand. You want a Hate Crime Investigation into the motivations of a dead shooter? Are you planning on prosecuting the corpse? Sentencing the dead to death? Or do you want to lock up the corpse for fifty years?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Yes guns are weapons that make it easier to kill people. The reason for so many deaths and so many mass shootings is easy to discern. We have a ton of easily accessible weapons that are really good at killing people. This isn't complicated math.

It's not complicated for someone who is intellectually lazy.

 

[Votto]

Just to make sure I understand. You want a Hate Crime Investigation into the motivations of a dead shooter? Are you planning on prosecuting the corpse? Sentencing the dead to death? Or do you want to lock up the corpse for fifty years?

To track incidences against various groups, yes.

 

[Orangecat]

That's only your victim complex showing.

As usual, you post triggered nonsense.

 

[Orangecat]

If you're argument is

Your, you’re, and yore are different words, you illiterate imbecile.

 

[Curried Goats]

It's not complicated for someone who is intellectually lazy.

Let's hear the intellectually convoluted excuse then. Where is it?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Let's hear the intellectually convulted excuse then. Where is it?

It's clear you have zero interest by your comments, not just in this thread, but in your overall behavior here and I don't waste my time on trolls.

I've had this discussion with plenty of others in other threads on this topic.

 

[Curried Goats]

It's clear you have zero interest by your comments, not just in this thread, but in your overall behavior here and I don't waste my time on trolls.

Its clear you clowns don't want to address the elephant in the room.