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Was Adam supposed to sin in God's great plan?

ding

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The Gnostics were a threat to the church at a time that the church was starting to develop as a hierarchical organisation with political power. Gnosticism undermined that power by claiming that they only obeyed the higher power of God himself.12 Gnostics claimed that through visions they experience Christ's continuing presence. Gnostics claimed that because of this they were above the authority of bishops, priests and deacons. They would even claim that as they were still experiencing Christ now, they were even greater than the apostles13. If the Gnostics remained within the mainstream church, this attitude would undermine and weaken the episcopal authority of the church.


Clement argued that the church believed in the overall authority of God. However, this power had been delegated to the bishops, priests and deacons on earth. According to Clement by refusing to obey the bishops, the Gnostics were refusing to obey God himself.14
If you want a fair accounting of that time you should read the chapter on The Socialism of the Heresies in Shafarevich's "The Phenomenon od Socialism."

 

ding

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I am familiar with the story of Noah and Ham in Genesis 9.
Again... If you think the Bible justifies slavery as good then you are misreading the Bible.
 

Likkmee

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Exactly......you just demonstrated free will and the choice not to believe the God of creation, you freely choose unrighteousness over righteousness when you refuse to accept the truth revealed in scripture as TRUTH. To you its nothing but a story because the very thought of being judged does not agree with your character. You either accept or reject that Jesus Christ sacrificed Himself so "you" could have the opportunity for eternal fellowship with God. You have chosen your "god" with a little "g", the god of this world and fellowship with his angels.

God does not want robots.......He wants free will choices. "For we are not bold to class or compare ourselves with some of those who commend themselves; but, when they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are without understanding." -- 2 Cor. 10:12 In other words, the buck stops with YOU, you have no one to blame regardless of what you profess to believe........you will be judged by your free will actions and the wheat will be separated from the chaff.
lake-arenal-hotel-microbrewery.jpg
 

Stann

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It produced and sustains us.

What could be better from our POV?

Regards
DL. Step 1. Create the physical universe. 2. With access designed into it from that parallel universe. 3. Set in place a plan to combine the two universes to halt the repeating life cycle ( birth- growth-decay-rebirth / renewal ) ad infinitum as was the original plan of all plans.
 

Stann

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Step 1. Create the physical universe. 2. With access designed into it from that parallel universe. 3. Set in place a plan to combine the two universes to halt the repeating life cycle ( birth-growth- decay-death ) that occurs in the physical universe ad infinitum as was the original plan of all plans. " GOD " is not perfect ( almost ) but " we " are persistent. Try, try again. This Big Bang- Crunch Cycle has got to stop. It's a waste of time and effort, converting everything back and forth. Have a great day and a great life. May you live forever. Time without end! Wonder beyond imagination, simply glorious. The future is NOW. ( Give or take a few millennia. ) Think bigger, smarter, better.
 

ding

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Step 1. Create the physical universe. 2. With access designed into it from that parallel universe. 3. Set in place a plan to combine the two universes to halt the repeating life cycle ( birth-growth- decay-death ) that occurs in the physical universe ad infinitum as was the original plan of all plans. " GOD " is not perfect ( almost ) but " we " are persistent. Try, try again. This Big Bang- Crunch Cycle has got to stop. It's a waste of time and effort, converting everything back and forth. Have a great day and a great life. May you live forever. Time without end! Wonder beyond imagination, simply glorious. The future is NOW. ( Give or take a few millennia. ) Think bigger, smarter, better.
There's no big crunch. There's no repeating universe. Time doesn't exist. It's just a convenient measure to mark the expansion of the universe. The universe began approximately 14 billion years ago being created out of nothing being hardwired to produce life and intelligence as the universe expanded and cooled. If that's not proof of God I don't know what is.
 
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GreatestIam

GreatestIam

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Good Question. Since Yahweh/YahShua is the Creator and made this Earth as a testing ground to see what we really love and hate, and is in charge of everything, it is logical to have had Adam begin the process of sin as a test for everyone since then. Adam was the snake who deceived Eve.
Wow. You add a lot to the story, while the bible itself tells you not to do that.

I do not like your testing ground notions, because an all knowing god, like your imaginary one, would already know the results.

God does not waste his time.

Speaking as a naturalist, nature does test us and if we cannot sin, our line goes extinct.

If you knew your myth well, you would not see a conflict between Yahweh and nature.

Only foolish supernatural thinking creates the conflict.

Christianity used to be a good religion before supernatural belief fucked it up.

Regards
DL
 

Indeependent

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I am familiar with the story of Noah and Ham in Genesis 9. Canaan was cursed into perpetual servitude.
And it seems that curse holds until today.
What's wrong with servitude?
You never had people working for your or your family who needed a paycheck?
 
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GreatestIam

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No idea? Did you even read your link?
I have refuted you on this before.

Have you lost the ability to think?

Let me try again.

Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.

1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL
 

Stann

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There's no big crunch. There's no repeating universe. Time doesn't exist. It's just a convenient measure to mark the expansion of the universe. The universe began approximately 14 billion years ago being created out of nothing being hardwired to produce life and intelligence as the universe expanded and cooled. If that's not proof of God I don't know what is.
The cyclical nature of this physical universe ( and everything in it ) is the only constant it was endowed with. 14 billion years is a blink in the eye of GOD. Man alone cannot begin to fathom the mind of GOD.
 
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GreatestIam

GreatestIam

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And it seems that curse holds until today.
What's wrong with servitude?
You never had people working for your or your family who needed a paycheck?
The wise will remember that the Jesus Gnostic Christians hear said he came to serve and not be served.

The unwise want to serve one who rejects their servitude.

Satan was to deceive many.

Regards
DL
 
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GreatestIam

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The cyclical nature of this physical universe ( and everything in it ) is the only constant it was endowed with.
This must be new as most scientist say otherwise, but cannot be trusted, due to them positing and proving mathematically that both a 9 dimension and a 12 dimension is our reality.

Too stupid for words.

Could I have your source on this Big Crunch?

Regards
DL
 
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GreatestIam

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Gnostic Christians were communists which is the only thing GreatestIam has in common with Gnostic Christians.
All Christian and myriad of Abrahamic based cults and religions, including Islam, are slave holding ideologies, and have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions.

Both of our mainstream religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

The Theft of Our Values

Is religion an ideal barometer of Western values or merely an oppressor of them? The conclusions set forth in the documentary The Theft of Our Values...

topdocumentaryfilms.com

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes.

Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

Moral people will agree.

Regards
DL
 

BreezeWood

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And it seems that curse holds until today.
What's wrong with servitude?
You never had people working for your or your family who needed a paycheck?

1634499594188.png


well, not everyone is for servitude - then there are those that just do not want the blessing for them - the chosen one's - who also find nothing wrong being slumlords and moneychangers ...
 

Indeependent

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The wise will remember that the Jesus Gnostic Christians hear said he came to serve and not be served.

The unwise want to serve one who rejects their servitude.

Satan was to deceive many.

Regards
DL
Which has what to do with working for a living?
 

Indeependent

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View attachment 553050

well, not everyone is for servitude - then there are those that just do not want the blessing for them - the chosen one's - who also find nothing wrong being slumlords and moneychangers ...
Servitude is not slavery.
Servitude is working for a living.
Tell me that the MD working 100+ hours a week to pay for a house he never sees is not in servitude.
 
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GreatestIam

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Do you understand enough to know that Gnostic Christians believed in two supernatural Gods?
Liar.

We do not believe in myths. Especially not our own as they were just written to put up against the bible before the advent of stupid Christian literal reading of myths.

Supernatural belief makes ones stupid.

Do not be one.

Look up the Cathars and note that their highest position was a Parfait. A perfected person.

That is basically a spin off of Chrestianity and esoteric Judaism, which was plagiarized and corrupted by supernatural belief.

If we were stupid enough believed in Yahweh as real, do you really think we would be so stupid that we would curse that genocidal maniac?

That would take one of your level.

Regards
DL
 
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GreatestIam

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If you think the Bible justifies slavery as good then you are misreading the Bible.
Where in scriptures do the wise speak against slavery?

They do not.

Why not?

It was what we call the social safety net.

Regards
DL
 

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