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Was Adam supposed to sin in God's great plan?

surada

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Boy does that make you the biggest American Conservative on God's green earth.

But, you're out to lunch on what original sin means as far as it's manifestation on people.

Original sin wasn't doctrine until about the third century AD.. Jews and Muslims do not accept it.
 

Clyde 154

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By the time Adam and Eve came along the Sumerians had a written language, agriculture, irrigation and sailboats.
Yeah.........The Sumerians were "smart" people.......just like you, so smart they invented language before man was ever created on earth. :abgg2q.jpg:

Now I can comprehend just how you believe, "Once upon a time there was a cosmic egg........" Ain't free will a grand thing? You have the right to believe in fairy tales. Your problem? You submit nothing but ad hominem BS and expect others to be as gullible as you.
 
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surada

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Yeah.........The Sumerians were "smart" people.......just like you, so smart they invented language before man was ever created on earth. :abgg2q.jpg:

Now I can comprehend just how you believe, "Once upon a time there was a cosmic egg........"

Have you seen the cave paintings in France that date back 40,000 years?
 

Meriweather

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well yeah......the dude pulls a rib out for a woman......and she goes and talks to the 'effin' snake......~S~
We need to go back to the original Hebrew and ancient culture nuances. It never hurts to add in what we know as well. It appears mankind started out as asexual and evolved into the two sexes. Both are part of the other--equal.

Next, the two (against God's advice) wanted knowledge of both good and evil. 'Sin' means that when given two choices, one takes the less favored, the less good. It appears God's original intent was that we only know good, but free will is also a factor with God. He laid out the consequences for this choice.

What impresses me is that the original authors (storytellers) came up with Just So stories. The used such a story in describing Adam and Eve's choices by bringing in a snake and a piece of fruit. As a kid, I loved Just So stories--and even as a little child I could identify "let's pretend" from reality. How can we not as adults? How can we not find the deeper truth of our Just So stories?
 

Likkmee

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Not even the God of creation can foretell "free will choices"...........free will = free thinking. God can know what you are thinking at any certain time but can't control what you will be thinking in the future. Its detailed in scripture.........unambiguous and obvious, man being endowed with free will creates his own fate when he freely makes choices between right and wrong, evil/good, righteousness/unrighteousness.

One single passaged demonstrates that God did not plan for man to sin. God created man totally and completely innocent and placed him in an environment that would support his every requirement for life and life's necessities. With no law, except one simple law, there can be no sin possible unless you break that one law. Sin did not enter the world until man decided freely to disobey the one rule that would bring about his death if disobeyed. That one rule? "You can eat of any tree in the garden, but you cannot eat of the tree of the knowledge between good and evil." Eve.......being deceived was not accountable for the sin.......it was not until Adam with foreknowledge decided to eat from the tree being the head of the family........sin entered the world.

Why did God place the tree in the garden in the first place? Its really quite obvious. God created man in His image. One of the things this implies (free will) is that man is given a free choice to decide whether to follow God or not. Along with "free will", by necessity comes law.........without law there can be no choice. Right/wrong, good/evil, etc., always exists, but unless we are made aware of the choice through law, we cannot be held responsible for keeping or breaking the law. The reason that animals can't sin, children can't sin.....until they reach the age of reason, they are not responsible because there is no comprehension of the law (i.e., the tree of knowledge between good and evil).

Eve was deceived.........Adam was not, he chose to follow the advise of his wife instead of the only law he was to obey. Being "one flesh" though marriage.....both paid the price for breaking the law of God.

As far as knowing that free will exists and God did not plan for man to sin, one passage confirms that Sin was not a product of predestination by the God of Creation. "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented (turn away) the Lord that He had made man on the earth. And it grieved Him at His heart." -- Genesis 6:5-6

If one has foreknowledge ..........one can't be sorry when that knowledge becomes reality.
Eve had the pussy. Adam, being a man, would do whatever it took to keep access to dat thang
 

Likkmee

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well yeah......the dude pulls a rib out for a woman......and she goes and talks to the 'effin' snake......~S~

"But there is one very special feature of our ribs that is the reason why God chose to use one of Adam’s ribs to make Eve. Our ribs are the only bones in our body can that regenerate itself – that is to grow a new rib.

There is a very thin lining of tissue that surrounds the ribs, kind of like a very thin clear sheaf covering a knife blade. If the rib is removed from that sheath, without damaging the sheath, the body will grow a new rib inside the sheath. No other bone in the human body can do this."
 

Meriweather

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Really? I had no idea.
Probably a Catholic thing. The Orthodox calendar, unlike the Catholic calendar does not celebrate the Immaculate Conception (Mary being born without sin) not because they don't believe Mary may have been sinless from conception, but because they hold no belief in Original Sin. Meanwhile, Catholics and Protestants believe in Original Sin, while Catholics maintain Mary's purity, Protestants maintain everyone but Jesus was born with Original Sin. Three interesting positions.
 

surada

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Probably a Catholic thing. The Orthodox calendar, unlike the Catholic calendar does not celebrate the Immaculate Conception (Mary being born without sin) not because they don't believe Mary may have been sinless from conception, but because they hold no belief in Original Sin. Meanwhile, Catholics and Protestants believe in Original Sin, while Catholics maintain Mary's purity, Protestants maintain everyone but Jesus was born with Original Sin. Three interesting positions.

Original sin is a pretty hard concept to believe considering we were created in the image of God. Did Jesus ever say anything about original sin?
 

surada

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Jesus said that our mission is to 'make disciples.' The doctrine of original sin is a human-made barrier to Christian faith and a hindrance to our mission. It demeans God's character, causing doubters and unbelievers to see God as cruel and vindictive rather than loving and just.

Difference between 'original sin' and 'sin nature'

 

Meriweather

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Jesus said that our mission is to 'make disciples.' The doctrine of original sin is a human-made barrier to Christian faith and a hindrance to our mission. It demeans God's character, causing doubters and unbelievers to see God as cruel and vindictive rather than loving and just.

Difference between 'original sin' and 'sin nature'

While this is true, Paul did bring up the subject, noting that while Adam's words and decisions brought us to one path, Jesus brought us to another. I was taught that the Original Sin (or choice) came with it an inherited sin nature. We have a propensity to sin--but also a propensity to fight against sin. Also I was taught that Adam and Eve represented all men and women--that given the same choice between knowledge and awareness of only good and the knowledge of both good and evil, we would choose both--most of us in the attempt to learn how to overcome evil and bring good out of evil.
 
OP
GreatestIam

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When I became aware of the concept of original sin it all seemed like a bad excuse built on the shakiest foundation.
As interpreted today, no argument.

If you read it as a naturalist, it is rock solid and has taken care of the problem of evil argument.

Most just don't see it.

Google Jewish Original Virtue.

It is also rock solid from their Oral Tradition class that rule Jewry.

They, like Gnostic Christians, know that Yahweh is evil,
and that man is above the gods we have created.

We are to strive both for and against all the gods.

That too is scripture, when you know how to read them.

Regards
DL
 
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GreatestIam

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That's probably because the original meaning of that account was lost through time.

Original sin is man's failure to take accountability when he makes a mistake. If everyone took accountability when they made mistakes or did wrong the world would transform itself overnight.

I can't think of a more solid foundation than that.
Yet the Christian way is to shed their accountability for sin and lay them on Jesus, even though he taught what you rightly say he taught.

This may be the first intelligent thing you post.

Did you change your meds?

Regards
DL
 
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GreatestIam

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a&e chose their path and asked to know both from the fruit of their choice as granted for the mission to triumph one over the other for their own determination to live freely in the Everlasting - the same fat for humanity - for a free spirit to be admitted into the Everlasting.

surly they were rewarded for their bravery.
As we will all be.

Thank all the gods that we naturally chose knowledge over the hell of eternal life.

Nature is the only truly holy and worthy Goddess.

We are ignoring the only deity that can and does speak to us. Nature.

Regards
DL
 
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GreatestIam

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Not even the God of creation can foretell "free will choices"
Your god has many limits.

Your bible is clear that we do not have free will.

Ask all the victims of the prick god Christians follow if their free will to live was respected when Yahweh had his baby head bashed against stones.

I seem to recall giving you many quotes that deny your claim.

Try reading your bible.

Regards
DL
 
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GreatestIam

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you can have any thing you want---make up anything--it's all man made fairytales ...any answer is '''correct'''
I would add qualifyers.

Only if argued well and the interlocutor has the couth to concede.

Being moral cowards, believers tend to lack that quality.

Regards
DL
 
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GreatestIam

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Come on .. Its a morality tale.
Exactly.

Whose morality?

Man against god?

Yes?

The great battle for the Greatest I am. So to speak.

Which morality do you see?

The Jewish success story or the Christian failure?

Regards
DL
 
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GreatestIam

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you freely choose unrighteousness over righteousness
I see you as having the log in your eye and not our friend.

Would a righteous god use genocide, homophobia and misogyny, like Yahweh/Jesus do, or are those the tools of an evil entity?

Gnostic Christians have tied god's righteousness to equality.

Your god embraces division and reducing the value of souls.

Answer my little question and gain.

Regards
DL
 

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