Waffen SS during WWII

[Pilot1]

The Waffen SS during WWII were arguably the best trained and most professional combat soldiers to fight in any modern war. Their field grade and staff officers came from Prussian families who's ancestors had been military men for several generations. ...

Who won again?

The corporations selected to win won. The best soldiers don't always win, and there are many, many other factors involved.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

They were weak. My ancestors smoked their asses.

 

[westwall]

The Waffen SS during WWII were arguably the best trained and most professional combat soldiers to fight in any modern war. Their field grade and staff officers came from Prussian families who's ancestors had been military men for several generations. ...

They also committed some of the worst war crimes so I wouldn't call them 'professional'.

Not advocating war crimes but so did the Russians, Japanese, and U.S. committed atrocities. War is Hell.

The 88MM gun was also used in the Tiger and Panther tanks and probably others.

The Panther used a high velocity 75mm. The KWK 42 L/70

 

[L.K.Eder]

Jagdpanther

 

[APACHERAT]

The Waffen SS was a political army, the militant arm of the Nationalist Socialist Party.

Kinda like when the KKK was the militant arm of the Democratic party in America.

The Waffen SS might have had a lot of money thrown at it and got the best weapons platforms but not all SS units were German, many were foreigners like the Muslim Brotherhood SS.


Grand Mufti and SS Brigadefuehrer Karl-Gustav Sauberzweig (the commander of the Bosnian Muslim Nazi Waffen-SS Division Handschar). The photo was taken in Yugoslavia in 1943.

The Waffen SS committed more than a few atrocities and Weremacht got blamed.

 

[gipper]

The German soldier of WWII was far superior. Possibly the best fighting force of all time. Even when they knew the war was lost, they inflicted massive casualties on the Red Army, while retreating.



The German Soldiers of World War II
Why They Were the Best, and Why They Still Lost
Trevor N. Dupuy, a noted American military analyst, US Army Colonel, and author of numerous books and articles, studied the comparative performance of the soldiers of World War II. On average, he concluded, 100 German soldiers were the equivalent of 120 American, British or French soldiers, or 200 Soviet soldiers. “On a man for man basis,” Dupuy wrote, “German ground soldiers consistently inflicted casualties at about a 50 percent higher rate than they incurred from the opposing British and American troops under all circumstances[emphasis in original]. This was true when they were attacking and when they were defending, when they had a local numerical superiority and when, as was usually the case, they were outnumbered, when they had air superiority and when they did not, when they won and when they lost.”[3]

Other respected military historians, such as Martin van Creveld and John Keegan, have made comparable assessments. Max Boot draws a similar conclusion in his detailed book, War Made New. “Man for man,” writes this influential author and military historian, “the Wehrmacht was probably the most formidable fighting force in the world until at least 1943, if not later. German soldiers were even known for showing more initiative than the soldiers of democratic France, Britain, and the United States.[4]

The German Soldiers of World War II

 

[alang1216]

The Waffen SS during WWII were arguably the best trained and most professional combat soldiers to fight in any modern war. Their field grade and staff officers came from Prussian families who's ancestors had been military men for several generations. ...

They also committed some of the worst war crimes so I wouldn't call them 'professional'.

Not advocating war crimes but so did the Russians, Japanese, and U.S. committed atrocities. War is Hell.

The 88MM gun was also used in the Tiger and Panther tanks and probably others.

The war crimes that Russia, Germany, and Japan committed were orders of magnitude worse than the US or the Brits (unless you count the area bombing of cities, then it was one or two orders of magnitude worse).

 

[alang1216]

The German soldier of WWII was far superior. Possibly the best fighting force of all time. Even when they knew the war was lost, they inflicted massive casualties on the Red Army, while retreating.



The German Soldiers of World War II
Why They Were the Best, and Why They Still Lost
Trevor N. Dupuy, a noted American military analyst, US Army Colonel, and author of numerous books and articles, studied the comparative performance of the soldiers of World War II. On average, he concluded, 100 German soldiers were the equivalent of 120 American, British or French soldiers, or 200 Soviet soldiers. “On a man for man basis,” Dupuy wrote, “German ground soldiers consistently inflicted casualties at about a 50 percent higher rate than they incurred from the opposing British and American troops under all circumstances[emphasis in original]. This was true when they were attacking and when they were defending, when they had a local numerical superiority and when, as was usually the case, they were outnumbered, when they had air superiority and when they did not, when they won and when they lost.”[3]

Other respected military historians, such as Martin van Creveld and John Keegan, have made comparable assessments. Max Boot draws a similar conclusion in his detailed book, War Made New. “Man for man,” writes this influential author and military historian, “the Wehrmacht was probably the most formidable fighting force in the world until at least 1943, if not later. German soldiers were even known for showing more initiative than the soldiers of democratic France, Britain, and the United States.[4]

The German Soldiers of World War II

I think part of their prowess came from experience. Once a German soldier entered the war they were there for the duration. For example, American bomber crews flew a set number of missions and they were sent home. German fighter pilots were never done flying until they died or the war ended.

 

[Sunni Man]

The Waffen SS might have had a lot of money thrown at it and got the best weapons platforms but not all SS units were German, many were foreigners like the Muslim Brotherhood SS.

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem only raised up one division (12,000) muslim soldiers who mainly fought in Yugoslavia and had no real impact on the outcome of the war. ...

 

[westwall]

Jagdpanther

Is not a Panther Tank, it is a "Tank Destroyer"

 

[Daryl Hunt]

No matter your political leanings. It can't be denied the heroic Wehrmacht soldiers fought courageously against overwhelming odds to rid Europe from atheist Bolshevism. ...

that is until the USA kicked their ass's

We did it by sheer numbers, not anything else. Germany ended up having to expend all it's resources while the US had resources including manpower to burn in comparison.

 

[westwall]

No matter your political leanings. It can't be denied the heroic Wehrmacht soldiers fought courageously against overwhelming odds to rid Europe from atheist Bolshevism. ...

that is until the USA kicked their ass's

We did it by sheer numbers, not anything else. Germany ended up having to expend all it's resources while the US had resources including manpower to burn in comparison.

Ummm, yes, and no. Yes we outproduced the hell out of them. But no, we did not have "manpower to burn". That is antithetical to the US way of war. The Soviets and the Germans, and other collectivist governments are more than happy to waste their people. But individualist societies are not. That's why we killed and captured more Germans, for fewer losses than any other military save the British.

 

[gipper]

The Waffen SS during WWII were arguably the best trained and most professional combat soldiers to fight in any modern war. Their field grade and staff officers came from Prussian families who's ancestors had been military men for several generations. ...

They also committed some of the worst war crimes so I wouldn't call them 'professional'.

Not advocating war crimes but so did the Russians, Japanese, and U.S. committed atrocities. War is Hell.

The 88MM gun was also used in the Tiger and Panther tanks and probably others.

The war crimes that Russia, Germany, and Japan committed were orders of magnitude worse than the US or the Brits (unless you count the area bombing of cities, then it was one or two orders of magnitude worse).

I can’t agree. The massive arial/fire bombings were as bad as the atrocities committed by the Germans and Japanese. The a-bombings were worse than anything they did, since Japan was trying to surrender for months beforehand

 

[westwall]

The Waffen SS during WWII were arguably the best trained and most professional combat soldiers to fight in any modern war. Their field grade and staff officers came from Prussian families who's ancestors had been military men for several generations. ...

They also committed some of the worst war crimes so I wouldn't call them 'professional'.

Not advocating war crimes but so did the Russians, Japanese, and U.S. committed atrocities. War is Hell.

The 88MM gun was also used in the Tiger and Panther tanks and probably others.

The war crimes that Russia, Germany, and Japan committed were orders of magnitude worse than the US or the Brits (unless you count the area bombing of cities, then it was one or two orders of magnitude worse).

I can’t agree. The massive arial/fire bombings were as bad as the atrocities committed by the Germans and Japanese. The a-bombings were worse than anything they did, since Japan was trying to surrender for months beforehand

Untrue. There were elements of the japanese who were trying to work out a surrender but the military dictatorship had no interest in surrender and actually initiated a coup attempt to keep the war going after the first bomb had been dropped. The facts are the japanese were every bit as vicious to the Chinese as the germans were to the Jews. So, what they suffered was the just rewards for their actions.

Period.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

No matter your political leanings. It can't be denied the heroic Wehrmacht soldiers fought courageously against overwhelming odds to rid Europe from atheist Bolshevism. ...

that is until the USA kicked their ass's

We did it by sheer numbers, not anything else. Germany ended up having to expend all it's resources while the US had resources including manpower to burn in comparison.

Ummm, yes, and no. Yes we outproduced the hell out of them. But no, we did not have "manpower to burn". That is antithetical to the US way of war. The Soviets and the Germans, and other collectivist governments are more than happy to waste their people. But individualist societies are not. That's why we killed and captured more Germans, for fewer losses than any other military save the British.

One of the things the other allies thought of the US was that the US fought like they had manpower to burn. We both know the US didn't really. No nation has. But the US could put together millions of troops at any given time. No other nation other than the Russians could do that. German could put a couple of million tops. Britain would have trouble putting together a million. The Russians could, and did, put tens of millions of troops at any given time. In the end, it was primarily the US and Russians that had the troop strengths. So, in comparison to the rest of the world and in the rest of the worlds eyes, the US did have manpower to burn. And the US certainly burned enough of them inside of those M-4 Shermans.

 

[alang1216]

I can’t agree. The massive arial/fire bombings were as bad as the atrocities committed by the Germans and Japanese. The a-bombings were worse than anything they did, since Japan was trying to surrender for months beforehand

Really?? It's likely that more people died in the Rape of Nanjing than from both A-Bombs. And that was just one conquered city. Up to 25,000 died in the Dresden fire bombing. Several million German and Russian POWs died.

Japan's surrender offer was conditional until the A-bombs.

 

[gipper]

I can’t agree. The massive arial/fire bombings were as bad as the atrocities committed by the Germans and Japanese. The a-bombings were worse than anything they did, since Japan was trying to surrender for months beforehand

Really?? It's likely that more people died in the Rape of Nanjing than from both A-Bombs. And that was just one conquered city. Up to 25,000 died in the Dresden fire bombing. Several million German and Russian POWs died.

Japan's surrender offer was conditional until the A-bombs.

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

 

[Pilot1]

The Waffen SS during WWII were arguably the best trained and most professional combat soldiers to fight in any modern war. Their field grade and staff officers came from Prussian families who's ancestors had been military men for several generations. ...

They also committed some of the worst war crimes so I wouldn't call them 'professional'.

Not advocating war crimes but so did the Russians, Japanese, and U.S. committed atrocities. War is Hell.

The 88MM gun was also used in the Tiger and Panther tanks and probably others.

The Panther used a high velocity 75mm. The KWK 42 L/70

Thanks. Still better than what the Allies had until very late in the war.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Jagdpanther

Is not a Panther Tank, it is a "Tank Destroyer"

It is a tank, designed to destroy other tanks.
holy fuck.

 

[alang1216]

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

Japan was neither defeated nor defenseless. How many casualties did they inflict on the Marines at Iwo? If they were desperately trying to surrender why did they refuse to surrender unconditionally?