vivek ramaswamy calls juneteenth a useless holiday.

[horselightning]

A country is made of people. The whole country was not free…and given that, Independence Day is going to have different meanings to different people. Juneteenth marks the day when the last of the enslaved people in this country were freed. We as a country were free then, right (at least in theory)? Isn’t that worth a celebration? If you don’t like it, don’t participate.

you just dont get it. the country was already free when the blacks were free. there is difference a free country and a free race.

 

[horselightning]

Of course they are. Culture, however, is often collective.



Cool story. Demanding that Black people as a group be grateful when White people as a group were responsible for perpetrating race based slavery in this country strikes me self-serving. Grateful to people as individuals? Of course, but that isn’t how it was brought up.

you just dont get it

 

[Coyote]

you just dont get it. the country was already free when the blacks were free. there is difference a free country and a free race.

I get what you mean, I just don’t agree. If a country is free, but an entire people is not….what meaning does it hold for them? The same could be said for our indiginous peoples. These groups weren’t allowed to participate in the freedom or the country or saw their freedom and culture destroyed. Personally, I enjoy Independence Day, but I totally get how it can hold very different feelings for others. That’s why I don’t have a problem with Juneteenth…it celebrates true freedom, with the end of slavery, and for a people that ostensibly is all about individual freedom…you’d think they’d concur.

 

[Coyote]

we are july 4th. besides the disabled are still in slaved in this country.

No they are not. There is no legal slavery in this country.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

No they are not. There is no legal slavery in this country.

Actually there is, those that are incarcerated.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

I get what you mean, I just don’t agree. If a country is free, but an entire people is not….what meaning does it hold for them? The same could be said for our indiginous peoples. These groups weren’t allowed to participate in the freedom or the country or saw their freedom and culture destroyed. Personally, I enjoy Independence Day, but I totally get how it can hold very different feelings for others. That’s why I don’t have a problem with Juneteenth…it celebrates true freedom, with the end of slavery, and for a people that ostensibly is all about individual freedom…you’d think they’d concur.

You're wasting your time trying to reason with a racist, she doesn't think black folks are legal US citizens to begin with and when it comes to freedom or independence she thinks it only applies to white folks.

 

[Richard-H]

Of course they are. Culture, however, is often collective.



Cool story. Demanding that Black people as a group be grateful when White people as a group were responsible for perpetrating race based slavery in this country strikes me self-serving. Grateful to people as individuals? Of course, but that isn’t how it was brought up.

The concept of individualism is apparently beyond you. Everything is Black vs. White according to you. My ancestors were individuals they were not a part of any of your groups.

There was NOTHING culturally equivalent between my ancestors and the people that owned slaves. You seem to put everything as a matter that some people have different chemical compositions in their skin.

You also forget that long before some white people enslaved black people here in the U.S., black people enslaved black people (which is still going on today), white people enslaved white people, Asians enslaved Asians, Arabs enslaved Arabs. Slavery is as old as the human race. It is an economic institution, not a racial institution. That economic institution, here in the U.S., has tricked people into believing that it was a racial institution...and in so doing has perpetuated racism.

BTW - I was joking about the descendant of slaves in the U.S. being grateful to me. But they should be grateful to my ancestor.

 

[Coyote]

Actually there is, those that are incarcerated.

I would disagree there...

 

[Coyote]

The concept of individualism is apparently beyond you. Everything is Black vs. White according to you. My ancestors were individuals they were not a part of any of your groups.

So individuals are not part of a group? That means every statistic based on groups...health issues, medical studies, economic surveys are defunct?

So according to you anyone who talks about people is a racist or bigot?

People can be and usually are both individuals and part of a grouping. It has nothing to do with how I see it, Your own statements in this regard are also very "black and white".

You need to clean your own your own house first.

.com/threads/so-sick-of-the-media-bs-about-blacks-are-so-scared-of-whites-now-it-is-bs.966630/post-29582011

There was NOTHING culturally equivalent between my ancestors and the people that owned slaves. You seem to put everything as a matter that some people have different chemical compositions in their skin.

And?

There was nothing culturally equivalent with my ancestors either, but I don't have a meltdown when people talk about race based slavery in the US. It's an historical fact that the majority of slave holders and those who created the peculiar onstitution of race based slavery were white.

You also forget that long before some white people enslaved black people here in the U.S., black people enslaved black people (which is still going on today), white people enslaved white people, Asians enslaved Asians, Arabs enslaved Arabs. Slavery is as old as the human race. It is an economic institution, not a racial institution. That economic institution, here in the U.S., has tricked people into believing that it was a racial institution...and in so doing has perpetuated racism.

In terms of US history, none of that is equivalent to what slavery became in the US. And it was absolutely race based and it created a culture that defined superiority and inferiority by skin color. it was deepker interwo
ven with a big chunk of American culture. The fact it persisted after emancipation in the form of Negro Codes and Jim Crowe ought to clue you in that it was race based.

BTW - I was joking about the descendant of slaves in the U.S. being grateful to me. But they should be grateful to my ancestor.

Maybe. Maybe not. Gratitude is always nice, but should not be expected when our ancesters were wittingly or unwittingly part of the power structure that maintained the status quo.

As individuals we can be grateful to other individuals, for doing the right thing. Long overdue.

 

[Richard-H]

So individuals are not part of a group? That means every statistic based on groups...health issues, medical studies, economic surveys are defunct?

So according to you anyone who talks about people is a racist or bigot?

People can be and usually are both individuals and part of a grouping. It has nothing to do with how I see it, Your own statements in this regard are also very "black and white".

You need to clean your own your own house first.

.com/threads/so-sick-of-the-media-bs-about-blacks-are-so-scared-of-whites-now-it-is-bs.966630/post-29582011






And?

There was nothing culturally equivalent with my ancestors either, but I don't have a meltdown when people talk about race based slavery in the US. It's an historical fact that the majority of slave holders and those who created the peculiar onstitution of race based slavery were white.



In terms of US history, none of that is equivalent to what slavery became in the US. And it was absolutely race based and it created a culture that defined superiority and inferiority by skin color. it was deepker interwo
ven with a big chunk of American culture. The fact it persisted after emancipation in the form of Negro Codes and Jim Crowe ought to clue you in that it was race based.




Maybe. Maybe not. Gratitude is always nice, but should not be expected when our ancesters were wittingly or unwittingly part of the power structure that maintained the status quo.

As individuals we can be grateful to other individuals, for doing the right thing. Long overdue.

Statistical analysis are only accurate and useful when done correctly. Dividing people into White & Black is a useless and highly inaccurate analysis. But it does promote racism.

Somehow the current slave trade gong on in the sub-Sahara region doesn't bother you. Of course not, that's Black people enslaving Black people, so you're O.K. with it.

BTW- Where were your ancestors when the Irish were being slaughtered by the British? Nowhere?

Perhaps my Irish ancestors had more in common with the enslaved blacks in the U.S. than they did with the white slavers - which is why they fought to end slavery.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

I would disagree there...

The 13th Amendment says: “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”

 

[Coyote]

Statistical analysis are only accurate and useful when done correctly. Dividing people into White & Black is a useless and highly inaccurate analysis. But it does promote racism.

It is also the only way to accurately describe certain parts of history.

Somehow the current slave trade gong on in the sub-Sahara region doesn't bother you. Of course not, that's Black people enslaving Black people, so you're O.K. with it.

mmmm…no.

You are jumping tracks here from American history to modern slavery. Which one are you discussing?

BTW- Where were your ancestors when the Irish were being slaughtered by the British? Nowhere?

Making a living off a hardscrabble farm in Denmark, mining in Wales…what’s your point?

Perhaps my Irish ancestors had more in common with the enslaved blacks in the U.S. than they did with the white slavers - which is why they fought to end slavery.

Cool.

 

[task0778]

It is also the only way to accurately describe certain parts of history.

With respect, I disagree. Creating a new federal holiday is not the only way to accurately describe certain parts of history, but it is a way for the democrats to pander to the black community. Some people think the democrats might be losing support from that faction and that is the reason why Juneteenth is a federal holiday. Why isn't MLK's birthday enough? Why don't we have a federal holiday for Wounded Knee or the Trail of Tears? Answer: insufficient political gain for the democrats, Native Americans just aren't a big enough constituency.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

With respect, I disagree. Creating a new federal holiday is not the only way to accurately describe certain parts of history, but it is a way for the democrats to pander to the black community. Some people think the democrats might be losing support from that faction and that is the reason why Juneteenth is a federal holiday. Why isn't MLK's birthday enough? Why don't we have a federal holiday for Wounded Knee or the Trail of Tears? Answer: insufficient political gain for the democrats, Native Americans just aren't a big enough constituency.

How many Republicans voted against Juneteenth and how many voted for it?

 

[miketx]

Vivek Ramaswamy calls Juneteenth 'useless' 2 months after posting a video celebrating it

During a conversation with Iowa voters on Saturday, Vivek Ramaswamy suggested canceling Juneteenth, calling it a “useless” holiday.

www.aol.com

should have stayed in texas were it happened at. it was just made by dems to sepporate us all. . he is right.

Jigroes will attack!

 

[miketx]

How many Republicans voted against Juneteenth and how many voted for it?

Fuck juneteenth. Get a job jigroe.

 

[JoeB131]

With respect, I disagree. Creating a new federal holiday is not the only way to accurately describe certain parts of history, but it is a way for the democrats to pander to the black community. Some people think the democrats might be losing support from that faction and that is the reason why Juneteenth is a federal holiday. Why isn't MLK's birthday enough? Why don't we have a federal holiday for Wounded Knee or the Trail of Tears? Answer: insufficient political gain for the democrats, Native Americans just aren't a big enough constituency.

Well, simple enough solution- We get rid of Columbus Day and replace it with Indigenous People's Day.

The real problem is that we've done and continue to do a great wrong to African-Americans.... and just giving them two holidays most of them won't get off unless they are government workers just won't cut it.

 

[22lcidw]

How many Republicans voted against Juneteenth and how many voted for it?

Do you see any difference from the "hoods"? Has the civility increased, and the bad behaviors decreased? It is not about celebration of something. It is about extracting more and more money from people. I do not want to pay anymore. Making up holidays like Kwanzaa and Juneteenth means nothing unless the people involved believe in it and do not act out.

 

[Richard-H]

It is also the only way to accurately describe certain parts of history.John Brown's attack on

No, it's a completely inaccurate way to describe those parts of history. The VAST MAJORITY of white people living in the U.S. at that time DID NOT OWN SLAVES.

There were more WHITE people fighting against slavery than there were slave owners.

Unfortunately, there were also hundreds of thousands of dumbass white people who did not own slaves but were fighting for the continuation of slavery.

Classifying the issue of slavery as being a white vs. black issue is pure BULLSHIT!

The fact is that the people who are the most to blame for black being enslaved are the blacks themselves.

You can not enslave a person who is willing to die for their freedom!

John Brown's attack on Harper's ferry probably would have succeeded if the slaves who he expected to join his force would have done so. Most of those slaves refused to join in John Brown's rebellion, which is why he lost - and they remained slaves.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

No, it's a completely inaccurate way to describe those parts of history. The VAST MAJORITY of white people living in the U.S. at that time DID NOT OWN SLAVES.

There were more WHITE people fighting against slavery than there were slave owners.

Unfortunately, there were also hundreds of thousands of dumbass white people who did not own slaves but were fighting for the continuation of slavery.

Classifying the issue of slavery as being a white vs. black issue is pure BULLSHIT!

The fact is that the people who are the most to blame for black being enslaved are the blacks themselves.

You can not enslave a person who is willing to die for their freedom!

John Brown's attack on Harper's ferry probably would have succeeded if the slaves who he expected to join his force would have done so. Most of those slaves refused to join in John Brown's rebellion, which is why he lost - and they remained slaves.

That's false. You didn't have to owh slaves to be a racist and public policy in America was racist.