Vietnam War

[Sunni Man]

According to the documentary, many of those young men wanted to go and fight in Vietnam. One family they focused on, he gave up academia to join up.

Early to mid 1960's, the war was seen as a patriot duty and many joined up.

Later in the war, late 60's early 70's, the bulk of the military was composed of unenthusiastic conscripts. Who had no desire to be there, let alone die there. ....

 

[Camp]

Skye would be proud of that posting.

What's that got to do with anything?

Skye would be proud of that posting.

What's that got to do with anything?

We are discussing a fairly recent war on the HISTORY forum. And you want to shut down debate. Thats just dumb.

Misquoting, and altering the narrative? That's what your type does.

You're not merely "discussing a fairly recent war". Not in an objective way at least. You always have some sort of angle. On anything you discuss.

Stop trolling the thread.

Another diversionary tactic for your dishonesty.

You are using arbitrary and misinformed posts to try and make your points. If anyone is trolling it is you. Anyhow, this thread was started by Tommy not you.

 

[Mindful]

According to the documentary, many of those young men wanted to go and fight in Vietnam. One family they focused on, he gave up academia to join up.

Early to mid 1960's, the war was seen as a patriot duty and many joined up.

Later in the war, late 60's early 70, the bulk of the military was composed of unenthusiastic conscripts. Who had no desire to be there, let alone die there. ....

I'm aware of that. But so many were eager to go. As the film makes clear, with personal interviews.

 

[Mindful]

What's that got to do with anything?

What's that got to do with anything?

We are discussing a fairly recent war on the HISTORY forum. And you want to shut down debate. Thats just dumb.

Misquoting, and altering the narrative? That's what your type does.

You're not merely "discussing a fairly recent war". Not in an objective way at least. You always have some sort of angle. On anything you discuss.

Stop trolling the thread.

Another diversionary tactic for your dishonesty.

You are using arbitrary and misinformed posts to try and make your points. If anyone is trolling it is you. Anyhow, this thread was started by Tommy not you.

So what? The way you talk, I thought you were the OP.

TT is legendary for his style of argument. I'm sure he can manage on his own, without backup from you.

My misinformed posts come from "The Vietnam War" documentary.

 

[danielpalos]

Just watching Ken Burns doc on the bbc.

I will have to watch it again when the house is quieter.

But at first glance it does seem that a lot of brave young men were let down badly by the politicians and the Generals.

I dont know if the doc is accurate but the impression given is that they just didnt have a clue.

My knowledge of the conflict is poor and mainly taken from the movies.

How did it go so badly ?

A management failure?

Fallacies of false Cause is what the right wing is best at; they prefer to allege a subscription to a domino theory; the left wing prefers the "status quo" of a "domino fallacy".

 

[Sunni Man]

I'm aware of that. But so many were eager to go. As the film makes clear, with personal interviews.

I do not care what the film says or shows. And they sure the hell didn't interview me or anyone I know.

I was one of those people who was drafted 1970-71, along with many of my high school friends. I can assure you that by that time, which was late in the war. Neither me, or any of my friends were looking forward to going to Vietnam, let alone signing up. .....

 

[danielpalos]

I'm aware of that. But so many were eager to go. As the film makes clear, with personal interviews.

I do not care what the film says or shows.

I was one of those people who was drafted 1970-71, along with many of my high school friends. I can assure you that by that time, which was late in the war. Neither me, or any of my friends were looking forward to going to Vietnam, let alone signing up. .....

I believe our Ninth Amendment applied. There was no formal declaration of war. Letters of marque and reprisal, or war, is what Congress is, literally delegated, by the People.

 

[Windparadox]

According to the documentary, many of those young men wanted to go and fight in Vietnam. One family they focused on, he gave up academia to join up.

`
One thing I've learned that correlates with what the documentary said; to my knowledge, Jane Fonda is universally hated by Vietnam vets.

 

[GHook93]

It was a civil war and we shouldn’t have gone in the way we did. However fighting the spread of communism was a worthy and just cause, so we should have supported the South Vietnamese financially, with weapons, air support and a no fly zone. We actually won the war, but we then allowed it to slip away. The North actually signed a peace Treaty Jan 27, 1973. NV gov agreed to this once we FINALLY took the fighting to the North. Nixon’s escalation into the North, Cambodia and Laos wasn’t popular but it was a necessary and decisive move that won us the war and forced the North to sign a peace treaty. Not to mention the huge strategic tet offensive blunder that effectively destroyed the VC!

We made a commitment to arm the SVA. However after Nixon resigned and the Demorats took Congress, the Dems went back on this promise. We didn’t arm the SVA and we pulled out most of the peace keeping troops. We gave them the South on a silver platter. It was dishonorable and cowardly.

The NVA saw this and invaded! If we just kept our promise and left in peace keeping troops then the history books would have been written much differently. The VC was effectively destroyed and the NVA would have never went in if we kept our word.

We would have seen a resurgent South Vietnam and a faltering North Vietnam, much the same way we see in Korea!

It is a damn shame

https://www.prageru.com/sites/defau...he_truth_about_the_vietnam_war-transcript.pdf
The Truth about the Vietnam War


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Sunni Man]

One thing I've learned that correlates with what the documentary said; to my knowledge, Jane Fonda is universally hated by Vietnam vets.

Although, I was in agreement with Fonda's public protests to end the war.

But when she went to North Vietnam and gleefully smiled and clapped her hands while seated on a soviet weapon used to shoot down American aircraft. She crossed the line and should have been charged with treason. ....

 

[Skull Pilot]

The US government wasted the lives of 58220 American soldiers and ruined the lives of tens of thousands more in nothing but a game of political brinkmanship.

 

[Sunni Man]

It was a civil war and we shouldn’t have gone in the way we did. However fighting the spread of communism was a worthy and just cause, so we should have supported the South Vietnamese financially, with weapons, air support and a no fly zone. We actually won the war, but we then allowed it to slip away. The North actually signed a peace Treaty Jan 27, 1973. NV gov agreed to this once we FINALLY took the fighting to the North. Nixon’s escalation into the North, Cambodia and Laos wasn’t popular but it was a necessary and decisive move that won us the war and forced the North to sign a peace treaty. Not to mention the huge strategic tet offensive blunder that effectively destroyed the VC!

We made a commitment to arm the SVA. However after Nixon resigned and the Demorats took Congress, the Dems went back on this promise. We didn’t arm the SVA and we pulled out most of the peace keeping troops. We gave them the South on a silver platter. It was dishonorable and cowardly.

The NVA saw this and invaded! If we just kept our promise and left in peace keeping troops then the history books would have been written much differently. The VC was effectively destroyed and the NVA would have never went in if we kept our word.

We would have seen a resurgent South Vietnam and a faltering North Vietnam, much the same way we see in Korea!

It is a damn shame

https://www.prageru.com/sites/defau...he_truth_about_the_vietnam_war-transcript.pdf
The Truth about the Vietnam War

The North Vietnamese were highly trained and dedicated nationalistic soldiers who were willing to fight to the death for generations in order to free their country from foreign occupation.

The South Vietnamese soldiers in general, lacked that kind of fervor and dedication. .....

 

[Mindful]

According to the documentary, many of those young men wanted to go and fight in Vietnam. One family they focused on, he gave up academia to join up.

`
One thing I've learned that correlates with what the documentary said; to my knowledge, Jane Fonda is universally hated by Vietnam vets.

Hanoi Jane they called her

 

[Wry Catcher]

Just watching Ken Burns doc on the bbc.

I will have to watch it again when the house is quieter.

But at first glance it does seem that a lot of brave young men were let down badly by the politicians and the Generals.

I dont know if the doc is accurate but the impression given is that they just didnt have a clue.

My knowledge of the conflict is poor and mainly taken from the movies.

How did it go so badly ?

It is very accurate.

At one point the Vietcong had superior Russian made weapons. Did you see the part where the US soldiers' guns jammed during heavy artillery fire?

Resulting in much loss of life.

I recall the M-14 had that problem, is that what they referenced?

 

[GHook93]

It was a civil war and we shouldn’t have gone in the way we did. However fighting the spread of communism was a worthy and just cause, so we should have supported the South Vietnamese financially, with weapons, air support and a no fly zone. We actually won the war, but we then allowed it to slip away. The North actually signed a peace Treaty Jan 27, 1973. NV gov agreed to this once we FINALLY took the fighting to the North. Nixon’s escalation into the North, Cambodia and Laos wasn’t popular but it was a necessary and decisive move that won us the war and forced the North to sign a peace treaty. Not to mention the huge strategic tet offensive blunder that effectively destroyed the VC!

We made a commitment to arm the SVA. However after Nixon resigned and the Demorats took Congress, the Dems went back on this promise. We didn’t arm the SVA and we pulled out most of the peace keeping troops. We gave them the South on a silver platter. It was dishonorable and cowardly.

The NVA saw this and invaded! If we just kept our promise and left in peace keeping troops then the history books would have been written much differently. The VC was effectively destroyed and the NVA would have never went in if we kept our word.

We would have seen a resurgent South Vietnam and a faltering North Vietnam, much the same way we see in Korea!

It is a damn shame

https://www.prageru.com/sites/defau...he_truth_about_the_vietnam_war-transcript.pdf
The Truth about the Vietnam War

The North Vietnamese were highly trained and dedicated nationalistic soldiers who were willing to fight to the death for generations in order to free their country from foreign occupation.

The South Vietnamese soldiers in general, lacked that kind of fervor and dedication. .....

Some what true. They were fierce fighters, however so were the North Koreans, but in that war we brought the fighting straight to the North right away. If the Chinese didn’t send in troops there would have never been a North Korea. That was the precise reason we stayed out of the North, Cambodia and Laos for so long.

Once we took the fight to them, the war changed and the North Vietnamese signed a peace treaty. Once they saw America had no political will to back it they hit the war path again.

If we backed the plan and allowed the South time to build their military then it would have e been different.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Mindful]

Just watching Ken Burns doc on the bbc.

I will have to watch it again when the house is quieter.

But at first glance it does seem that a lot of brave young men were let down badly by the politicians and the Generals.

I dont know if the doc is accurate but the impression given is that they just didnt have a clue.

My knowledge of the conflict is poor and mainly taken from the movies.

How did it go so badly ?

It is very accurate.

At one point the Vietcong had superior Russian made weapons. Did you see the part where the US soldiers' guns jammed during heavy artillery fire?

Resulting in much loss of life.

I recall the M-14 had that problem, is that what they referenced?

I think so. The north Vietnamese had the AK 47.

 

[Mindful]

It was a civil war and we shouldn’t have gone in the way we did. However fighting the spread of communism was a worthy and just cause, so we should have supported the South Vietnamese financially, with weapons, air support and a no fly zone. We actually won the war, but we then allowed it to slip away. The North actually signed a peace Treaty Jan 27, 1973. NV gov agreed to this once we FINALLY took the fighting to the North. Nixon’s escalation into the North, Cambodia and Laos wasn’t popular but it was a necessary and decisive move that won us the war and forced the North to sign a peace treaty. Not to mention the huge strategic tet offensive blunder that effectively destroyed the VC!

We made a commitment to arm the SVA. However after Nixon resigned and the Demorats took Congress, the Dems went back on this promise. We didn’t arm the SVA and we pulled out most of the peace keeping troops. We gave them the South on a silver platter. It was dishonorable and cowardly.

The NVA saw this and invaded! If we just kept our promise and left in peace keeping troops then the history books would have been written much differently. The VC was effectively destroyed and the NVA would have never went in if we kept our word.

We would have seen a resurgent South Vietnam and a faltering North Vietnam, much the same way we see in Korea!

It is a damn shame

https://www.prageru.com/sites/defau...he_truth_about_the_vietnam_war-transcript.pdf
The Truth about the Vietnam War

The North Vietnamese were highly trained and dedicated nationalistic soldiers who were willing to fight to the death for generations in order to free their country from foreign occupation.

The South Vietnamese soldiers in general, lacked that kind of fervor and dedication. .....

Some what true. They were fierce fighters, however so were the North Koreans, but in that war we brought the fighting straight to the North right away. If the Chinese didn’t send in troops there would have never been a North Korea. That was the precise reason we stayed out of the North, Cambodia and Laos for so long.

Once we took the fight to them, the war changed and the North Vietnamese signed a peace treaty. Once they saw America had no political will to back it they hit the war path again.

If we backed the plan and allowed the South time to build their military then it would have e been different.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Not to forget how corrupt the leaders of the South became.

 

[Windparadox]

`
`
The documentary drove home one salient point; the US knew from the start, they could never win a military victory in Vietnam....and yet, the lie of victory is what they fed the public....to the tune of over 50,000 American troops and over 2,000,000 South East Asians, dead.

 

[Mindful]

`
`
The documentary drove home one salient point; the US knew from the start, they could never win a military victory in Vietnam....and yet, the lie of victory is what they fed the public....to the tune of over 50,000 American troops and over 2,000,000 South East Asians, dead.

A lot of the blame lies with General Westmoreland, now deceased.

Today’s list: The top ten reasons Gen. Westmoreland lost the war in Vietnam

 

[whitehall]

I didn't watch it but I bet the guy with a haircut like a ten year old didn't bring up LBJ's lies and fake crisis and the fact that he set the rules so that we could win every battle and still lose the war and blame it on Nixon. The crazy part is just when LBJ's insane policy of wearing down an enemy that had been fighting for decades, was working he gave up in a tearful address to Americans and general Giap was able to recruit replacements that he lost during Tet.