Vietnam War and question for the boomer generation

[OKTexas]

When your generals and intelligence agencies are caught blatantly lying to you for years, it is they who need to be shot, not you.

Conservatives want to shoot Jane Fonda

Actually she should have been charged with treason, for providing aid and comfort to our enemies. And shot only after conviction.

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The problem was that there was no declared war, so who knew who the enemy really was.

When congress authorizes military action to defeat an enemy, it's a declaration of war, regardless of the wording.

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That is not true.
For example, Trump recently assassinated General Qasem Soleimani, and there was no implied declaration of war.
When Congress pass the authorization for the use of force in Iraq, it was limited to defending the US from WMD.
So was not a real declaration of war.
The fact the military then does what it wants, is part of the problem.

Damn you're one stupid son of a bitch. Soleimani was providing material support and expertise to terrorist that were attacking US facilities and personnel, including the US Embassy. He entered the theater of war at his own peril and paid the price for it. He knew the US considered him the number 1 terrorist in the region. It was a good thing he was sent home in sandwich bags.

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[OKTexas]

Jane Fonda was right about her objection to the war
Millions died unnecessarily

Blame Bob Hope

When we have troops is the field, you don't go to the war zone to be photographed with the enemy supporting the enemy of your own troop, and making propaganda use of captured US troops unless you are a traitorous, spoiled bitch. She will always be Hanoi Jane.

YES YOU DO!!!!
The only way to save the lives of those US troops is to expose the Pentagon as the real enemy.
Anyone again Fonda was guilty of causing the murder not only of innocent Vietnamese, but of US GIs as well.
Ho Chi Minh was the hero of all Vietnam, for defeating the French and liberating the country.
Violating the peace accord between France and Vietnam by getting Diem to depose Bau Dai was one of the worst crimes in history.
Jane not only did the right thing, but she gained nothing by it and it was one of the most selfless acts of the century.

Why, Hello, Jane! You awful unpatriotic old whore.

Nope.
Jane was right and she will always be a hero because she not only told the truth, but knew it would cost her.
She never gained a thing from it, but save tens of thousands of lives.
The Vietnamese were never going to give up, so what do you think would have happened to all those US POWs if the war went on 5, 10, or 20 more years?

Face facts, the war in Vietnam was never legal or winnable.

Wrong. The war in Vietnam was authorized by the U.S. Congress which made it completely legal.

And every war is winnable.

Wrong.
Congress does not have unlimited authority, and can only declare war when required defensively.
Otherwise it fits the definition of illegal murder.
We also had congress ratify the UN charter, which makes any war illegal except when in direct defense, or with UN approval, like the Korean war.

Feel free to point that out in the Constitution.

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[OKTexas]

Untrue. After Kerry and other members testified under oath before congress about alleged a "war crimes" they and their claims were officially investigated. Some were found to have never been in the military. Some who had been in the military had never been in Vietnam. Some who actually had been to Vietnam had never been in a combat unit or assigned combat duties. Of the very few who had none, of their allegations were confirmed to have been war crimes.. None. Veterans or not they were simply a lying pack of scumbags looking for attention by defaming their betters. Pure theatrics.

How can you say that?
You never heard of Mai Lai?
Lt. Calley?
The tiger pits?
Captured VC thrown out of helicopters?
Agent Orange?
Sinking Russian ship in Hai Phong harbor with mines?
How about supporting Diem's illegal military coup that prevented democratic elections?

The Declaration of Independence does not just say that US citizens have individual rights like to vote, etc.
It says ALL people do, every where.
So it is criminal when any one violates those inherent rights, and if the criminals are US citizens, they become our duty to prosecute.
The whole Pentagon should have been prosecuted.

The whole Pentagon should have been prosecuted.

You stupid fucking commie, the Military is controlled by civilian authority.

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[OKTexas]

Untrue. You just refuse to notice them. There was no shortage of atrocities while the war was ongoing Massacre at Huế List of massacres in Vietnam And only an idiot would suppose they suddenly became all warm and fuzzy once they took control. We have South Vietnamese communities here in the US. Ask them. What right do you have to speak for them? The boat people of the time were fleeing occupied South Vietnam; not fleeing to it.

I do talk to Vietnamese here, and they mostly came due to the illegal economic sanctions the US imposed.
Nothing to do with massacres.
During the war was different.
There not only were hard feelings, but there was desperation as well.
Not so once we left.
The boat people show poverty due to our embargo, not repression.
With repression you can't get a boat or leave.

LMAO, you might want to tell the people of Cuba that. They're finding all kinds of inventive ways to escape repression.

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[OKTexas]

International treaties must be Constitutional or they are not legal no matter who says otherwise.

Are you saying the US did not become signatory to the UN Charter under the authority of the US?

​

2: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.​

You might want to do some reading on the topic you stupid commie. Start here:

supreme court internation agreements and treaties the violate the US constituion are unenforcable at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Untrue. After Kerry and other members testified under oath before congress about alleged a "war crimes" they and their claims were officially investigated. Some were found to have never been in the military. Some who had been in the military had never been in Vietnam. Some who actually had been to Vietnam had never been in a combat unit or assigned combat duties. Of the very few who had none, of their allegations were confirmed to have been war crimes.. None. Veterans or not they were simply a lying pack of scumbags looking for attention by defaming their betters. Pure theatrics.

How can you say that?
You never heard of Mai Lai?
Lt. Calley?
The tiger pits?
Captured VC thrown out of helicopters?
Agent Orange?
Sinking Russian ship in Hai Phong harbor with mines?
How about supporting Diem's illegal military coup that prevented democratic elections?

The Declaration of Independence does not just say that US citizens have individual rights like to vote, etc.
It says ALL people do, every where.
So it is criminal when any one violates those inherent rights, and if the criminals are US citizens, they become our duty to prosecute.
The whole Pentagon should have been prosecuted.

If you were actually interested you could have followed one of the links I posted for you and found this: Note the numbers killed and by whom
This does not include many villages where the VC made "examples" of those they thought cooperated with the US or South Vietnamese.
The following is a list of massacres that have occurred in Vietnam and its predecessors:

Name	Date	Location	Deaths	Perpetrator
Sài Gòn massacre (Cité Héraud massacre)	September 24–26, 1945	Đa Kao of Sài Gòn Province, Vietnam	300–400	Việt Minh
Hàng Bún Street Massacre	December 17, 1946	Hàng Bún Street, Hanoi, Vietnam	At least over 20	French Armed Forces
Mỹ Trạch massacre	November 29, 1947	Mỹ Trạch village, Mỹ Thủy commune, Lệ Thủy District, Quảng Bình Province	300, more than	French Armed Forces
Châu Đốc massacre	July 11, 1957	Châu Đốc in An Giang Province, South Vietnam	17	Anti-government insurgents
Bình An/Tây Vinh massacre (disputed)	February 12, 1966 – March 17, 1966	Tây Sơn District of Bình Định Province, South Vietnam	1,004	Republic of Korea Armed Forces
Binh Tai massacre (disputed)	October 9, 1966	Binh Tai village, Phước Bình, Sông Bé Province, South Vietnam	168	Republic of Korea Armed Forces
Bình Hòa massacre (disputed)	December 3, 1966 to December 6, 1966	Bình Hòa village, Quảng Ngãi Province, South Vietnam	430	Republic of Korea Armed Forces
Thuy Bo incident (disputed)	January 31, 1967 to February 1, 1967	Thuy Bo, Điện Bàn District, Quảng Nam Province, South Vietnam	145	United States Marine Corps
Đắk Sơn massacre	December 5, 1967	Đắk Sơn, Đắk Lắk Province, South Vietnam	114–252	Viet Cong
Massacre at Huế	January 31, 1968 to February 28, 1968	Huế	2,800–6,000	Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army
Phong Nhị and Phong Nhất massacre	February 12, 1968	Phong Nhị and Phong Nhất hamlets, Điện Bàn District of Quảng Nam Province, South Vietnam	69–79	Republic of Korea Armed Forces
Hà My massacre (disputed)	February 25, 1968	Hà Mỹ village, Quảng Nam Province, South Vietnam	135	Republic of Korea Armed Forces
My Lai Massacre	March 16, 1968	Mỹ Lai and My Khê hamlets, Sơn Mỹ, Quảng Ngãi, South Vietnam	504	U.S. Army
Thanh Phong massacre	February 25, 1969	Thanh Phong village of Bến Tre Province, South Vietnam	21	U.S. Navy
Son Thang massacre	February 19, 1970	Son Thang, South Vietnam	16	U.S. Marine Corps
Duc Duc massacre	March 29, 1971	Duc Duc Village, Quảng Nam Province, South Vietnam	250	Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army
Ba Chúc massacre	April 18, 1978	Ba Chúc, Tri Tôn, An Giang province, South Vietnam	3,157	Khmer Rouge Forces

"Tiger pits" were invented and used by the Vietnamese; not the US.
I have had two heat attacks and have ischemic heart disease attributed to agent orange exposer I think it's safe to say I've heard of it. Not a war crime.
Sinking a Russian ship in Hai Phong harbor with mines is a pleasing war accomplishment; not a war crime.
How about supporting Diem's illegal military coup that prevented democratic elections?
Not a war crime and did not prevent elections.

The Declaration of Independence does not just say that US citizens have individual rights like to vote, etc.
It says ALL people do, every where.
The Declaration of Independence was basically a message telling the King of England to get bent. And lists some of the reasons for withdrawing from the Empire. It was in fact an illegal document that made the signers self-confessed traitors and criminals.
It is the US Constitution that was enacted much later that made the Bill of Rights the law of the land. The US Bill of Rights does not-and can not- convey Rights to citizens of other Countries who have their own governments and laws. The Bill of Rights most certainly does convey individual rights to Americans.

 

[9thIDdoc]

International treaties must be Constitutional or they are not legal no matter who says otherwise.

Are you saying the US did not become signatory to the UN Charter under the authority of the US?

​

2: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.​

I am saying that signing the Charter did not-and could not- commit this Nation to any act that would violate the US Constitution. Had it done so the signing would have been illegal.

 

[rightwinger]

Untrue. After Kerry and other members testified under oath before congress about alleged a "war crimes" they and their claims were officially investigated. Some were found to have never been in the military. Some who had been in the military had never been in Vietnam. Some who actually had been to Vietnam had never been in a combat unit or assigned combat duties. Of the very few who had none, of their allegations were confirmed to have been war crimes.. None. Veterans or not they were simply a lying pack of scumbags looking for attention by defaming their betters. Pure theatrics.

How can you say that?
You never heard of Mai Lai?
Lt. Calley?
The tiger pits?
Captured VC thrown out of helicopters?
Agent Orange?
Sinking Russian ship in Hai Phong harbor with mines?
How about supporting Diem's illegal military coup that prevented democratic elections?

The Declaration of Independence does not just say that US citizens have individual rights like to vote, etc.
It says ALL people do, every where.
So it is criminal when any one violates those inherent rights, and if the criminals are US citizens, they become our duty to prosecute.
The whole Pentagon should have been prosecuted.

If you were actually interested you could have followed one of the links I posted for you and found this: Note the numbers killed and by whom
This does not include many villages where the VC made "examples" of those they thought cooperated with the US or South Vietnamese.
The following is a list of massacres that have occurred in Vietnam and its predecessors:

Name	Date	Location	Deaths	Perpetrator
Sài Gòn massacre (Cité Héraud massacre)	September 24–26, 1945	Đa Kao of Sài Gòn Province, Vietnam	300–400	Việt Minh
Hàng Bún Street Massacre	December 17, 1946	Hàng Bún Street, Hanoi, Vietnam	At least over 20	French Armed Forces
Mỹ Trạch massacre	November 29, 1947	Mỹ Trạch village, Mỹ Thủy commune, Lệ Thủy District, Quảng Bình Province	300, more than	French Armed Forces
Châu Đốc massacre	July 11, 1957	Châu Đốc in An Giang Province, South Vietnam	17	Anti-government insurgents
Bình An/Tây Vinh massacre (disputed)	February 12, 1966 – March 17, 1966	Tây Sơn District of Bình Định Province, South Vietnam	1,004	Republic of Korea Armed Forces
Binh Tai massacre (disputed)	October 9, 1966	Binh Tai village, Phước Bình, Sông Bé Province, South Vietnam	168	Republic of Korea Armed Forces
Bình Hòa massacre (disputed)	December 3, 1966 to December 6, 1966	Bình Hòa village, Quảng Ngãi Province, South Vietnam	430	Republic of Korea Armed Forces
Thuy Bo incident (disputed)	January 31, 1967 to February 1, 1967	Thuy Bo, Điện Bàn District, Quảng Nam Province, South Vietnam	145	United States Marine Corps
Đắk Sơn massacre	December 5, 1967	Đắk Sơn, Đắk Lắk Province, South Vietnam	114–252	Viet Cong
Massacre at Huế	January 31, 1968 to February 28, 1968	Huế	2,800–6,000	Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army
Phong Nhị and Phong Nhất massacre	February 12, 1968	Phong Nhị and Phong Nhất hamlets, Điện Bàn District of Quảng Nam Province, South Vietnam	69–79	Republic of Korea Armed Forces
Hà My massacre (disputed)	February 25, 1968	Hà Mỹ village, Quảng Nam Province, South Vietnam	135	Republic of Korea Armed Forces
My Lai Massacre	March 16, 1968	Mỹ Lai and My Khê hamlets, Sơn Mỹ, Quảng Ngãi, South Vietnam	504	U.S. Army
Thanh Phong massacre	February 25, 1969	Thanh Phong village of Bến Tre Province, South Vietnam	21	U.S. Navy
Son Thang massacre	February 19, 1970	Son Thang, South Vietnam	16	U.S. Marine Corps
Duc Duc massacre	March 29, 1971	Duc Duc Village, Quảng Nam Province, South Vietnam	250	Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army
Ba Chúc massacre	April 18, 1978	Ba Chúc, Tri Tôn, An Giang province, South Vietnam	3,157	Khmer Rouge Forces

"Tiger pits" were invented and used by the Vietnamese; not the US.
I have had two heat attacks and have ischemic heart disease attributed to agent orange exposer I think it's safe to say I've heard of it. Not a war crime.
Sinking a Russian ship in Hai Phong harbor with mines is a pleasing war accomplishment; not a war crime.
How about supporting Diem's illegal military coup that prevented democratic elections?
Not a war crime and did not prevent elections.

The Declaration of Independence does not just say that US citizens have individual rights like to vote, etc.
It says ALL people do, every where.
The Declaration of Independence was basically a message telling the King of England to get bent. And lists some of the reasons for withdrawing from the Empire. It was in fact an illegal document that made the signers self-confessed traitors and criminals.
It is the US Constitution that was enacted much later that made the Bill of Rights the law of the land. The US Bill of Rights does not-and can not- convey Rights to citizens of other Countries who have their own governments and laws. The Bill of Rights most certainly does convey individual rights to Americans.

All told......around 10,000
Not the millions that you claimed.

 

[Mac-7]

By losing it?

American arms destroyed tje NVA

We brought the communists to the bargaining table and saved the South

But after US forces withdrew the traitorous democrats in congress cut off funding to the democratic south and the communists took over

Revisionist History along the lines that Trump had the election stolen from him

We negotiated with the N Vietnamese to get our troops out safely without being attacked. There was no pretext that we had won

We left a large portion of our military hardware with the S Vietnamese. State of the Art Helicopter Gunships, a modern air force, tanks, artillery, ammo and supplies.
In spite of all this and fighting a defensive war....the South quickly folded.......they were that bad

The north vietnamese never lost the support of russia and china

Not before or after the US withdrawal

But the south was abandoned by the US thanks to democrats in congress

Thats a fact

 

[Mac-7]

There is no amount of funding that could have kept the corrupt government of South Vietnam afloat.

Bullshit

The American revolution did not have full support of the colonists

Or even majority support

The vietnam war became an ideological battle between the left and right in America symbolized by libs like Jane Fonda and is being misrepresented by the left ever since

 

[Mac-7]

By losing it?

American arms destroyed tje NVA

We brought the communists to the bargaining table and saved the South

But after US forces withdrew the traitorous democrats in congress cut off funding to the democratic south and the communists took over

Revisionist History along the lines that Trump had the election stolen from him

We negotiated with the N Vietnamese to get our troops out safely without being attacked. There was no pretext that we had won

We left a large portion of our military hardware with the S Vietnamese. State of the Art Helicopter Gunships, a modern air force, tanks, artillery, ammo and supplies.
In spite of all this and fighting a defensive war....the South quickly folded.......they were that bad

Wrong you fucking RETARD they lost because in 1974 the US Congress cut off all ammo parts supplies and equipment to South Vietnam. and still out number 2 to one and heavily outnumbered in tanks and armored vehicles the south fought for a MONTH.

It is libs who want to rewrite history to hide their guilt

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Jane Fonda is the real life version of "white privilege" that the left worships and like with everything else keeps pointing the finger at others...
...Kennedy set the stage for Nam, Johnson produced the war and Nixon/Ford ended it, but Fonda called Nixon the "Hitler" from the group.
It's the same with all atrocities, white left wing privilege pays no price for its evil, they just share their guilt...concentration camps for Japanese-Americans, using nuclear weapons on their fellow man, slavery, Nam...the list of their crimes against humanity is endless, as is the finger pointing....its the definition of privilege in America.

btw Kennedy was a great man

 

[rightwinger]

Jane Fonda is the real life version of "white privilege" that the left worships and like with everything else keeps pointing the finger at others...Kennedy set the stage for Nam, Johnson produced the war and Nixon/Ford ended it, but Fonda called Nixon the "Hitler" from the group.
It's the same with all atrocities, white left wing privilege pays no price for its evil, they just share their guilt...concentration camps for Japanese-Americans, using nuclear weapons on their fellow man, slavery, Nam...the list of their crimes against humanity is endless, as is the finger pointing....its the definition of privilege in America.

btw Kennedy was a great man

If JFK had not been assassinated, he would have made the same mistakes in Vietnam that LBJ did

 

[gipper]

Jane Fonda is the real life version of "white privilege" that the left worships and like everything else keeps pointing the finger at others...Kennedy set the stage for Nam, Johnson produced the war and Nixon/Ford ended it, but Fonda called Nixon the "Hitler" from the group.
It's the same with all atrocities, white left wing privilege pays no price for its evil, they just share their guilt...concentration camps for Japanese-Americans, using nuclear weapons on their fellow man, slavery, Nam...the list of their crimes against humanity is endless, as is the finger pointing.

btw Kennedy was a great man

JFK was a great man and blaming the left for America’s historical atrocities is inaccurate.

The right fully supported the Nam War and continued to long after it was an obvious failure and a horrendous crime.

 

[gipper]

If JFK had not been assassinated, he would have made the same mistakes in Vietnam that LBJ did

No. Wrong as usual.

He planned to pull all troops after re-election. If you weren’t such a stupid warmongering statist, you’d know of his Peace Speech just months before your beloved shadow state had him murdered.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

If JFK had not been assassinated, he would have made the same mistakes in Vietnam that LBJ did

Hard to imagine "Hanoi Jane" referring to Kennedy as Hitler though, what do you think the spoiled white privileged brat would have done in that circumstance?

 

[rightwinger]

No. Wrong as usual.

He planned to pull all troops after re-election. If you weren’t such a stupid warmongering statist, you’d know of his Peace Speech just months before your beloved shadow state had him murdered.

JFK had the same advisors and generals that LBJ did.
Robert MacNamara would have given him the same advice he gave LBJ.
Like LBJ, JFK did not want to appear soft on Communism and would have sent troops to keep S Vietnam from falling to the Communists

Vietnam in 1963 was not the same as Vietnam in 1965

 

[rightwinger]

Hard to imagine "Hanoi Jane" referring to Kennedy as Hitler though, what do you think the spoiled white privileged brat would have done in that circumstance?

If JFK had lived, I think rather than Camelot, he would have been heckled just as badly as LBJ was

 

[Frankeneinstein]

JFK was a great man

is there an echo?

and blaming the left for America’s historical atrocities is inaccurate.

you mean the white privilege left...and only because they are the white privilege is it called inaccurate, otherwise it is obvious

The right fully supported the Nam War and continued to long after it was an obvious failure and a horrendous crime.

and of course the finger pointing! where is the part about who began and ended the war, ya know, the real inconvenient truths. more and more people are starting to see through the white privilege finger pointing.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

JFK had the same advisors and generals that LBJ did.
Robert MacNamara would have given him the same advice he gave LBJ.
Like LBJ, JFK did not want to appear soft on Communism and would have sent troops to keep S Vietnam from falling to the Communists

So? Is this to say that you do believe "Hanoi Jane" would have called Kennedy Hitler?

Vietnam in 1963 was not the same as Vietnam in 1965

Which backs up my post/claim "Kennedy set the stage, Johnson produced the war" [you are not trying to pass that off as your claim are you?] who ended that left wing atrocity RW?...tell everyone.