Vietnam War and question for the boomer generation

[White 6]

Jane Fonda was right about her objection to the war
Millions died unnecessarily

Blame Bob Hope

When we have troops is the field, you don't go to the war zone to be photographed with the enemy supporting the enemy of your own troop, and making propaganda use of captured US troops unless you are a traitorous, spoiled bitch. She will always be Hanoi Jane.

YES YOU DO!!!!
The only way to save the lives of those US troops is to expose the Pentagon as the real enemy.
Anyone again Fonda was guilty of causing the murder not only of innocent Vietnamese, but of US GIs as well.
Ho Chi Minh was the hero of all Vietnam, for defeating the French and liberating the country.
Violating the peace accord between France and Vietnam by getting Diem to depose Bau Dai was one of the worst crimes in history.
Jane not only did the right thing, but she gained nothing by it and it was one of the most selfless acts of the century.

Why, Hello, Jane! You awful unpatriotic old whore.

Nope.
Jane was right and she will always be a hero because she not only told the truth, but knew it would cost her.
She never gained a thing from it, but save tens of thousands of lives.
The Vietnamese were never going to give up, so what do you think would have happened to all those US POWs if the war went on 5, 10, or 20 more years?

Face facts, the war in Vietnam was never legal or winnable.

Wrong. The war in Vietnam was authorized by the U.S. Congress which made it completely legal.

And every war is winnable.

Not necessarily. Did you ever hear, "Never fight a land war in Asia"? It's a different type of war. If you think you have won, you will still have to keep an occupying force in place for generations to control what you never really controlled to begin with and will fight that war again and again if you wish to keep any semblance of order. They read the The Art of War and understood Sun Tzu Wu, perfectly.

1) A common saying in no way makes something true.
2) What is he big deal about keeping occupying force in a place for generations? Many occupying forces have to stay a prolonged length of time.
3) Just because something appears in a a book by Sun Tzu doesn't make it true either.

You never read it and understood it, either. Lots of truth in that small book. That is why it is still studied today.

 

[Dayton3]

Jane Fonda was right about her objection to the war
Millions died unnecessarily

Blame Bob Hope

When we have troops is the field, you don't go to the war zone to be photographed with the enemy supporting the enemy of your own troop, and making propaganda use of captured US troops unless you are a traitorous, spoiled bitch. She will always be Hanoi Jane.

YES YOU DO!!!!
The only way to save the lives of those US troops is to expose the Pentagon as the real enemy.
Anyone again Fonda was guilty of causing the murder not only of innocent Vietnamese, but of US GIs as well.
Ho Chi Minh was the hero of all Vietnam, for defeating the French and liberating the country.
Violating the peace accord between France and Vietnam by getting Diem to depose Bau Dai was one of the worst crimes in history.
Jane not only did the right thing, but she gained nothing by it and it was one of the most selfless acts of the century.

Why, Hello, Jane! You awful unpatriotic old whore.

Nope.
Jane was right and she will always be a hero because she not only told the truth, but knew it would cost her.
She never gained a thing from it, but save tens of thousands of lives.
The Vietnamese were never going to give up, so what do you think would have happened to all those US POWs if the war went on 5, 10, or 20 more years?

Face facts, the war in Vietnam was never legal or winnable.

Wrong. The war in Vietnam was authorized by the U.S. Congress which made it completely legal.

And every war is winnable.

Not necessarily. Did you ever hear, "Never fight a land war in Asia"? It's a different type of war. If you think you have won, you will still have to keep an occupying force in place for generations to control what you never really controlled to begin with and will fight that war again and again if you wish to keep any semblance of order. They read the The Art of War and understood Sun Tzu Wu, perfectly.

1) A common saying in no way makes something true.
2) What is he big deal about keeping occupying force in a place for generations? Many occupying forces have to stay a prolonged length of time.
3) Just because something appears in a a book by Sun Tzu doesn't make it true either.

You never read it and understood it, either.

What makes you think that?

 

[9thIDdoc]

No international agreement like the UN Charter is binding upon the United States unless it has enforcement provisions specifically passed by Congress that lays out consequences of a violation and enforcement provisions.

Interesting. So the supreme Law of the Land is not binding on the US. That explains a lot.

2: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.​

International treaties must be Constitutional or they are not legal no matter who says otherwise. Neither our own government nor any foreign government or organization can legally violate the Bill of Rights. Attempting to do so is an act of war.

 

[Rigby5]

We took a Civil War in Vietnam and turned it into a Cold War proxy.

Ot was a very important civil war that helped determine the outcome of the Cold War

By losing it?

The outcome of the Cold War was never finalized. The enemy gets a vote. The American public never understood that and thought it was over. It wasn't and still isn't. Putin knows this.

I think the whole "cold war" was a hoax.
It really started around 1890, with the Bolshevik propaganda out of correct fear that the US was getting to corrupt, that some sort of changes were bound to start happening in the US as well. For better or worse, instead the change were brought on by Teddy Roosevelt and trust busting, which solve the most serious problems.
The reality is that Russia never had the resources, connections, ability, or inclination to be any sort of threat to the US.
But fear is always a good justification for raising taxes.

 

[Mac-7]

By losing it?

American arms destroyed tje NVA

We brought the communists to the bargaining table and saved the South

But after US forces withdrew the traitorous democrats in congress cut off funding to the democratic south and the communists took over

 

[Rigby5]

1) A common saying in no way makes something true.
2) What is he big deal about keeping occupying force in a place for generations? Many occupying forces have to stay a prolonged length of time.
3) Just because something appears in a a book by Sun Tzu doesn't make it true either.

Keeping an occupying force for generations costs more than any possible point of invading in the first place, if the population is never pacified.
The Chinese occupied Vietnam for a 1000 years before they realized they had lost.
We just learned more quickly.

 

[rightwinger]

By losing it?

American arms destroyed tje NVA

We brought the communists to the bargaining table and saved the South

But after US forces withdrew the traitorous democrats in congress cut off funding to the democratic south and the communists took over

Revisionist History along the lines that Trump had the election stolen from him

We negotiated with the N Vietnamese to get our troops out safely without being attacked. There was no pretext that we had won

We left a large portion of our military hardware with the S Vietnamese. State of the Art Helicopter Gunships, a modern air force, tanks, artillery, ammo and supplies.
In spite of all this and fighting a defensive war....the South quickly folded.......they were that bad

 

[Rigby5]

Untrue. After Kerry and other members testified under oath before congress about alleged a "war crimes" they and their claims were officially investigated. Some were found to have never been in the military. Some who had been in the military had never been in Vietnam. Some who actually had been to Vietnam had never been in a combat unit or assigned combat duties. Of the very few who had none, of their allegations were confirmed to have been war crimes.. None. Veterans or not they were simply a lying pack of scumbags looking for attention by defaming their betters. Pure theatrics.

How can you say that?
You never heard of Mai Lai?
Lt. Calley?
The tiger pits?
Captured VC thrown out of helicopters?
Agent Orange?
Sinking Russian ship in Hai Phong harbor with mines?
How about supporting Diem's illegal military coup that prevented democratic elections?

The Declaration of Independence does not just say that US citizens have individual rights like to vote, etc.
It says ALL people do, every where.
So it is criminal when any one violates those inherent rights, and if the criminals are US citizens, they become our duty to prosecute.
The whole Pentagon should have been prosecuted.

 

[White 6]

Jane Fonda was right about her objection to the war
Millions died unnecessarily

Blame Bob Hope

When we have troops is the field, you don't go to the war zone to be photographed with the enemy supporting the enemy of your own troop, and making propaganda use of captured US troops unless you are a traitorous, spoiled bitch. She will always be Hanoi Jane.

YES YOU DO!!!!
The only way to save the lives of those US troops is to expose the Pentagon as the real enemy.
Anyone again Fonda was guilty of causing the murder not only of innocent Vietnamese, but of US GIs as well.
Ho Chi Minh was the hero of all Vietnam, for defeating the French and liberating the country.
Violating the peace accord between France and Vietnam by getting Diem to depose Bau Dai was one of the worst crimes in history.
Jane not only did the right thing, but she gained nothing by it and it was one of the most selfless acts of the century.

Why, Hello, Jane! You awful unpatriotic old whore.

Nope.
Jane was right and she will always be a hero because she not only told the truth, but knew it would cost her.
She never gained a thing from it, but save tens of thousands of lives.
The Vietnamese were never going to give up, so what do you think would have happened to all those US POWs if the war went on 5, 10, or 20 more years?

Face facts, the war in Vietnam was never legal or winnable.

Wrong. The war in Vietnam was authorized by the U.S. Congress which made it completely legal.

And every war is winnable.

Not necessarily. Did you ever hear, "Never fight a land war in Asia"? It's a different type of war. If you think you have won, you will still have to keep an occupying force in place for generations to control what you never really controlled to begin with and will fight that war again and again if you wish to keep any semblance of order. They read the The Art of War and understood Sun Tzu Wu, perfectly.

1) A common saying in no way makes something true.
2) What is he big deal about keeping occupying force in a place for generations? Many occupying forces have to stay a prolonged length of time.
3) Just because something appears in a a book by Sun Tzu doesn't make it true either.

You never read it and understood it, either.

What makes you think that?

I read and re-read for a paper on it for A.O.A.C. Sun Tzu was against fighting wars at distance, due to supply lines and ability to use mass and effective re-enforcement, and the fact they were not on his door step, so to speak. He favored deception where possible. Did not favor occupying armies to exact tribute, taxes and maintain controlled order, knowing locals would always gum up the works if they could not mount outright offensive. Not sure if sabotage was mentioned, but it was endemic to the warfare of the feudal warlord conflicts in that part of the world, carried out more by peasants, not so much soldiers.

 

[cnm]

Calley was convicted

Of a war crime? Has the US acknowledged My Lai was a war crime?

 

[Rigby5]

Untrue. You just refuse to notice them. There was no shortage of atrocities while the war was ongoing Massacre at Huế List of massacres in Vietnam And only an idiot would suppose they suddenly became all warm and fuzzy once they took control. We have South Vietnamese communities here in the US. Ask them. What right do you have to speak for them? The boat people of the time were fleeing occupied South Vietnam; not fleeing to it.

I do talk to Vietnamese here, and they mostly came due to the illegal economic sanctions the US imposed.
Nothing to do with massacres.
During the war was different.
There not only were hard feelings, but there was desperation as well.
Not so once we left.
The boat people show poverty due to our embargo, not repression.
With repression you can't get a boat or leave.

 

[cnm]

International treaties must be Constitutional or they are not legal no matter who says otherwise.

Are you saying the US did not become signatory to the UN Charter under the authority of the US?

​

2: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.​

 

[Rigby5]

By losing it?

American arms destroyed tje NVA

We brought the communists to the bargaining table and saved the South

But after US forces withdrew the traitorous democrats in congress cut off funding to the democratic south and the communists took over

We took the bargaining table away originally by backing the brutal military takeover by Diem in 1954.
There is no amount of funding that could have kept the corrupt government of South Vietnam afloat.

 

[White 6]

We took a Civil War in Vietnam and turned it into a Cold War proxy.

Ot was a very important civil war that helped determine the outcome of the Cold War

By losing it?

The outcome of the Cold War was never finalized. The enemy gets a vote. The American public never understood that and thought it was over. It wasn't and still isn't. Putin knows this.

I think the whole "cold war" was a hoax.
It really started around 1890, with the Bolshevik propaganda out of correct fear that the US was getting to corrupt, that some sort of changes were bound to start happening in the US as well. For better or worse, instead the change were brought on by Teddy Roosevelt and trust busting, which solve the most serious problems.
The reality is that Russia never had the resources, connections, ability, or inclination to be any sort of threat to the US.
But fear is always a good justification for raising taxes.

They did. They do. Plus, they threaten Europe even more and still support anti-democracy efforts around the world. You have your head up your ass, or you are just a supporter of the old Soviet and the present day Russian government. I do not.

 

[Dayton3]

1) A common saying in no way makes something true.
2) What is he big deal about keeping occupying force in a place for generations? Many occupying forces have to stay a prolonged length of time.
3) Just because something appears in a a book by Sun Tzu doesn't make it true either.

Keeping an occupying force for generations costs more than any possible point of invading in the first place, if the population is never pacified.
The Chinese occupied Vietnam for a 1000 years before they realized they had lost.
We just learned more quickly.

It is quite possible to kill all the people fighting you.

 

[Dayton3]

By losing it?

American arms destroyed tje NVA

We brought the communists to the bargaining table and saved the South

But after US forces withdrew the traitorous democrats in congress cut off funding to the democratic south and the communists took over

Revisionist History along the lines that Trump had the election stolen from him

We negotiated with the N Vietnamese to get our troops out safely without being attacked. There was no pretext that we had won

We left a large portion of our military hardware with the S Vietnamese. State of the Art Helicopter Gunships, a modern air force, tanks, artillery, ammo and supplies.
In spite of all this and fighting a defensive war....the South quickly folded.......they were that bad

Considering hundreds of thousands of North Vietnamese regular troops were allowed to remain INSIDE South Vietnam after the treaty was signed there was no real chance that the South Vietnamese could hold out without U.S. support (which was promised).

 

[Dayton3]

By losing it?

American arms destroyed tje NVA

We brought the communists to the bargaining table and saved the South

But after US forces withdrew the traitorous democrats in congress cut off funding to the democratic south and the communists took over

We took the bargaining table away originally by backing the brutal military takeover by Diem in 1954.
There is no amount of funding that could have kept the corrupt government of South Vietnam afloat.

There was nothing especially corrupt about the South Vietnamese government. And historically corrupt governments have stayed afloat for months, years, even generations.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

By losing it?

American arms destroyed tje NVA

We brought the communists to the bargaining table and saved the South

But after US forces withdrew the traitorous democrats in congress cut off funding to the democratic south and the communists took over

Revisionist History along the lines that Trump had the election stolen from him

We negotiated with the N Vietnamese to get our troops out safely without being attacked. There was no pretext that we had won

We left a large portion of our military hardware with the S Vietnamese. State of the Art Helicopter Gunships, a modern air force, tanks, artillery, ammo and supplies.
In spite of all this and fighting a defensive war....the South quickly folded.......they were that bad

Wrong you fucking RETARD they lost because in 1974 the US Congress cut off all ammo parts supplies and equipment to South Vietnam. and still out number 2 to one and heavily outnumbered in tanks and armored vehicles the south fought for a MONTH.

 

[rightwinger]

By losing it?

American arms destroyed tje NVA

We brought the communists to the bargaining table and saved the South

But after US forces withdrew the traitorous democrats in congress cut off funding to the democratic south and the communists took over

Revisionist History along the lines that Trump had the election stolen from him

We negotiated with the N Vietnamese to get our troops out safely without being attacked. There was no pretext that we had won

We left a large portion of our military hardware with the S Vietnamese. State of the Art Helicopter Gunships, a modern air force, tanks, artillery, ammo and supplies.
In spite of all this and fighting a defensive war....the South quickly folded.......they were that bad

Wrong you fucking RETARD they lost because in 1974 the US Congress cut off all ammo parts supplies and equipment to South Vietnam. and still out number 2 to one and heavily outnumbered in tanks and armored vehicles the south fought for a MONTH.

They lost because the S Vietnamese forces outright SUCKED
Poor leadership, poor morale unable and unwilling to fight on their own

They had the best equipment, air superiority, choppers, modern air force.....


They still LOST......Their own fault

 

[Dayton3]

By losing it?

American arms destroyed tje NVA

We brought the communists to the bargaining table and saved the South

But after US forces withdrew the traitorous democrats in congress cut off funding to the democratic south and the communists took over

Revisionist History along the lines that Trump had the election stolen from him

We negotiated with the N Vietnamese to get our troops out safely without being attacked. There was no pretext that we had won

We left a large portion of our military hardware with the S Vietnamese. State of the Art Helicopter Gunships, a modern air force, tanks, artillery, ammo and supplies.
In spite of all this and fighting a defensive war....the South quickly folded.......they were that bad

Wrong you fucking RETARD they lost because in 1974 the US Congress cut off all ammo parts supplies and equipment to South Vietnam. and still out number 2 to one and heavily outnumbered in tanks and armored vehicles the south fought for a MONTH.

They lost because the S Vietnamese forces outright SUCKED
Poor leadership, poor morale unable and unwilling to fight on their own

They had the best equipment, air superiority, choppers, modern air force.....


They still LOST......Their own fault

All false and utterly idiotic. You've swallowed the lies of the mainstream media whole.