USS Liberty

[JoeB131]

I was in the NAVY---and had lots to do with its accidents and accidents in general thereafter. The people who LAY BLAME are the people in charge and any person injured-----they do so for obvious reasons---the people in charge don't want to be blamed and the injured want just compensation-----same principles apply in motor vehicle accidents-----in fact in all sorts of "PERSONAL INJURY" cases. If a kid falls out of a window-----it's because the landlord neglected to install window guards----if a person cannot escape a fire ---it's because the landlord neglected to install window guards that open-------welcome to PERSONAL INJURY JURISPRUDENCE

Not sure how this applies to three separate attacks on a clearly marked US Ship in international waters by a supposed "Ally".

 

[PeterPilot]

Just popping in to remind everyone, especially newcomers, that something like 99% of the historians and scholars who have studied the USS Liberty incident have concluded it was a tragic and explainable accident. Pretty much the only people who still peddle the USS Liberty conspiracy theory, i.e., that the Israelis knew the Liberty was American and attacked anyway, are certain radical Muslim authors, neo-Nazis, and far-left anti-Semitic Israel bashers.

We can see the disreputable, fringe nature of those who peddle this crackpot conspiracy theory by the comments of the people who are defending the theory in this thread.

99% that's nothing. There was a time when 100% of "experts" and humans of all sorts, including the various churches, believed that the earth was the center of the universe.

You're promoting Israeli deception, and you sure as hell are not the only one doing that.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Not sure how this applies to three separate attacks on a clearly marked US Ship in international waters by a supposed "Ally".

Not sure why you keep repeating this lie about "three separate attacks." Not sure why you keep repeating the misleading exaggeration and distortion of "a clearly marked U.S. ship."

The Israeli gun-camera footage shows the Liberty's flag was not unfurled and was not visible. Even a furled flag is not going to be very noticeable to a pilot approaching from a non-perpendicular angle to the ship while flying at high speed and aiming and firing weapons. Israel radio traffic shows that the Israelis initially thought the ship was Egyptian and then feared it might be Russian, and did not know it was American until after the torpedo boats attacked the ship (after the Liberty accidentally fired at them).

And, just to advise newcomers about JoeB131 so they can better understand where he's coming from on the USS Liberty incident, in recent weeks he has said that "Hitler was not the problem" in pre-WWII Germany but that the Jews were the problem, that the Jews "definitely provoked" Hitler's animosity by supposedly wrecking Germany after WWI, that Jewish bankers sabotaged German banks after WWI, that Jews never pass up a chance to make money, that he "guesses" the Holocaust was bad ("Was it bad? I guess"), etc., etc.

 

[PeterPilot]

Not sure why you keep repeating this lie about "three separate attacks." Not sure why you keep repeating the misleading exaggeration and distortion of "a clearly marked U.S. ship."

The Israeli gun-camera footage shows the Liberty's flag was not unfurled and was not visible. Even a furled flag is not going to be very noticeable to a pilot approaching from a non-perpendicular angle to the ship while flying at high speed and aiming and firing weapons. Israel radio traffic shows that the Israelis initially thought the ship was Egyptian and then feared it might be Russian, and did not know it was American until after the torpedo boats attacked the ship (after the Liberty accidentally fired at them).

And, just to advise newcomers about JoeB131 so they can better understand where he's coming from on the USS Liberty incident, in recent weeks he has said that "Hitler was not the problem" in pre-WWII Germany but that the Jews were the problem, that the Jews "definitely provoked" Hitler's animosity by supposedly wrecking Germany after WWI, that Jewish bankers sabotaged German banks after WWI, that Jews never pass up a chance to make money, that he "guesses" the Holocaust was bad ("Was it bad? I guess"), etc., etc.

In judging events, this post and others suggest you make a habit of believing known liars.

In this case of the Liberty, I believe the US Sailors that were there. The Israelis are notorious liars ever since the state was created. And murderers.

The boat was flying the standard US Flag when attacked. After the first pass or two, they flew a much larger flag thinking it was out of ignorance. It wasn't. It was deliberate.

You go ahead on and buy into the propaganda. I'm sticking with the US sailors.

 

[JoeB131]

And, just to advise newcomers about JoeB131 so they can better understand where he's coming from on the USS Liberty incident, in recent weeks he has said that "Hitler was not the problem" in pre-WWII Germany but that the Jews were the problem, that the Jews "definitely provoked" Hitler's animosity by supposedly wrecking Germany after WWI, that Jewish bankers sabotaged German banks after WWI, that Jews never pass up a chance to make money, that he "guesses" the Holocaust was bad ("Was it bad? I guess"), etc., etc.

Not what I said at all. I'd explain it to you again, but you still wouldn't understand it.

I'll put it in context for you.

Every day, you let your dog shit on my lawn. I ask you nicely every day to not have your dog shit on my lawn, or at least clean up after it. Clearly you are in the wrong there.

Then one day, I get fed up and shoot you and your dog. Obviously, I'm in the wrong there, but it wasn't like you were minding your own business.

Okay, so. Jewish Revolutionaries were in the forefront of the 1918 revolution that toppled the Kaiser, which led to the Weimar Republic, the Treaty of Versailles, devaluing the currency to pay onerous reparations, mass starvation in Germany, and so on.

Were all Jews responsible for that? Of course not. Were the Germans right to be angry about it? Yes, yes, they were. Hitler didn't need to make things up; a generation of Weimar politicians, including Hindenburg, did that for him.

And before you go into a bunch of whining, I'm betting you are just fine with Trump rounding up undocumented immigrants and even a few legal residents, because a few immigrants are committing crimes.

Clearly, you can scream about history, but you haven't learned anything from it.

 

[JoeB131]

In judging events, this post and others suggest you make a habit of believing known liars.

In this case of the Liberty, I believe the US Sailors that were there. The Israelis are notorious liars ever since the state was created. And murderers.

The boat was flying the standard US Flag when attacked. After the first pass or two, they flew a much larger flag thinking it was out of ignorance. It wasn't. It was deliberate.

You go ahead on and buy into the propaganda. I'm sticking with the US sailors.

Quite right.

The problem is, the Liberty had a pretty distinct profile... huge masts for picking up radio waves. Even if the huge flats and English markings weren't enough, the fact the Egyptians had nothing like it should have been a clue.

 

[PeterPilot]

Quite right.

The problem is, the Liberty had a pretty distinct profile... huge masts for picking up radio waves. Even if the huge flats and English markings weren't enough, the fact the Egyptians had nothing like it should have been a clue.

It seems that LBJ, Robert MacNamara and Admiral McCain were in on it, as they turned around a flight of phantoms sent by a nearby Navy aircraft carrier to defend the Liberty. LBJ said something to the effect that he did not want to anger his "Israeli friends". Those men in high office were traitors.

 

[mikegriffith1]

PeterPilot said:
In judging events, this post and others suggest you make a habit of believing known liars.

In this case of the Liberty, I believe the US Sailors that were there. The Israelis are notorious liars ever since the state was created. And murderers.

Quite right.

The problem is, the Liberty had a pretty distinct profile... huge masts for picking up radio waves. Even if the huge flats and English markings weren't enough, the fact the Egyptians had nothing like it should have been a clue.

Oh, look at this: Two neo-Nazi and anti-Semitic Israel bashers and peddlers of Hamas/ISIS/Al Qaeda propaganda having another anti-Semitic USS Liberty conspiracy-theory echo chamber session. "The Israelis are notorious liars and murderers." "Quite right."

I've already answered the false claim that the Liberty bore no resemblance to the Egyptian ship that the Israelis mistook the Liberty for, the El Quesir. Even a CIA report noted that the Liberty "could easily be mistaken" for the Egyptian ship, and that the Liberty and the Quesir had "similar hulls and arrangements of masts and stack" (LINK).

I've also pointed out that the Israeli gun-camera footage shows that the Liberty's flag was not visible. I've also pointed out that intercepts of Israeli comms prove that the Israelis did not realize the Liberty was an American ship until after the torpedo boats had attacked the Liberty (after the Liberty mistakenly fired at them first). I've also pointed out that not one of the sailors who testified at the USS Liberty Naval Court of Inquiry said that the Israeli planes were unmarked or that the Israelis fired on life rafts in the water.

But these two clowns just wave aside all this evidence, and other evidence, and just keep repeating the neo-Nazi/radical-Muslim version of the USS Liberty incident.

Finally, a note of warning to new readers, just to give you some idea of the types of wingnuts and bigots who peddle the USS Liberty conspiracy theory: JoeB131 recently said "Hitler was not the problem" but that the problem was that the Jews wrecked Germany after WWI and "definitely" caused Hitler's animosity. And Peter Pilot began this thread by posting a video by Candace Owens, the same Candace Owens who denies that the Nazis conducted cruel medical experiments on Jews at Auschwitz and who says the Moon landings were faked.

 

[PeterPilot]

Oh, look at this: Two neo-Nazi and anti-Semitic Israel bashers and peddlers of Hamas/ISIS/Al Qaeda propaganda having another anti-Semitic USS Liberty conspiracy-theory echo chamber session. "The Israelis are notorious liars and murderers." "Quite right."

I've already answered the false claim that the Liberty bore no resemblance to the Egyptian ship that the Israelis mistook the Liberty for, the El Quesir. Even a CIA report noted that the Liberty "could easily be mistaken" for the Egyptian ship, and that the Liberty and the Quesir had "similar hulls and arrangements of masts and stack" (LINK).

I've also pointed out that the Israeli gun-camera footage shows that the Liberty's flag was not visible. I've also pointed out that intercepts of Israeli comms prove that the Israelis did not realize the Liberty was an American ship until after the torpedo boats had attacked the Liberty (after the Liberty mistakenly fired at them first). I've also pointed out that not one of the sailors who testified at the USS Liberty Naval Court of Inquiry said that the Israeli planes were unmarked or that the Israelis fired on life rafts in the water.

But these two clowns just wave aside all this evidence, and other evidence, and just keep repeating the neo-Nazi/radical-Muslim version of the USS Liberty incident.

Finally, a note of warning to new readers, just to give you some idea of the types of wingnuts and bigots who peddle the USS Liberty conspiracy theory: JoeB131 recently said "Hitler was not the problem" but that the problem was that the Jews wrecked Germany after WWI and "definitely" caused Hitler's animosity. And Peter Pilot began this thread by posting a video by Candace Owens, the same Candace Owens who denies that the Nazis conducted cruel medical experiments on Jews at Auschwitz and who says the Moon landings were faked.

Endless repetition of falsehoods does not make them become true. The choice for me is between the known Zionist liars who you believe or the men on the boat.

Your insisting on calling me and others critical of the Zionists "anti-Semetic" reveals what everyman knows--when the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. I am not anti-semetic, but you must call me that because you have no argument defending the murderous butchers of Tel Aviv.

 

[JoeB131]

've already answered the false claim that the Liberty bore no resemblance to the Egyptian ship that the Israelis mistook the Liberty for, the El Quesir. Even a CIA report noted that the Liberty "could easily be mistaken" for the Egyptian ship, and that the Liberty and the Quesir had "similar hulls and arrangements of masts and stack"

Do you ever get tired of lying, Mormon Mike? Then again, you belong to a religion based on lies, so probably not.

These are the profiles of the USS Liberty vs the El-Quesir

The Mistaken Identity Claim: USS Liberty vs El Quseir

www.gtr5.com

As you can see, the pictures of El Quseir were fairly large and relatively clear. The pictures show clearly that El Quseir had:

• two rows of portholes running along the sides of her hull,
• two tall and angled pole-masts (forward and aft),
• a small vertical pole-mast on top of middle superstructure,
• a small (two-level) superstructure,
• an angled stack behind the superstructure, and
• a vertical (90 degree) bow point. In all respects, El Quseir appeared like a classic "tramp steamer" -- a relatively common sight in the Mediterranean Sea region, before and during 1967.

Other than both ships having general hull lines of cargo-type ships, the two ships had little in common (as highlighted below). The USS Liberty had:

• no portholes in her hull,
• two tall and vertical pole-masts (forward and aft),
• a large tower-mast on top of forward superstructure,
• a large (four-level) superstructure,
• a vertical stack in the middle of the superstructure,
• an angled (78 degree) bow point,
• a very large radio antenna reflector dish aft the superstructure,
• a large radio antenna reflector dish at the forecastle level, and
• many other type radio antennas visible on her decks and masts.

Additionally, USS Liberty had her US Navy ID number "GTR5" painted in very large letters on both sides of her bow and stern. In all respects, USS Liberty appeared like a WW2-era Victory Ship converted to some type of communications ship, with US Navy markings. (Like "tramp steamers," civilian and military ships with Victory Ship type hulls were a relatively common sight in the Mediterranean Sea region before and during 1967.)

I've also pointed out that the Israeli gun-camera footage shows that the Liberty's flag was not visible. I've also pointed out that intercepts of Israeli comms prove that the Israelis did not realize the Liberty was an American ship until after the torpedo boats had attacked the Liberty (after the Liberty mistakenly fired at them first). I've also pointed out that not one of the sailors who testified at the USS Liberty Naval Court of Inquiry said that the Israeli planes were unmarked or that the Israelis fired on life rafts in the water.

Again, if you have ever been involved in a military investigation, they tell you what the testimony will be before you say it. I remember one time an officer was caught doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing, and I kept documentation to cover my own ass. Not to go into too much detail, but the system bent over backwards to protect this officer's reputation. (He was kind of considered a golden boy.)

So given that the fix was in from the top on this one, I just don't take what is in the official record all that seriously.

I take what the survivors have testified to. And what whistleblowers have said after the fact.

The statement of Ward Boston, Jr., CAPT, USN JAG

18. ADMIRAL KIDD ALSO TOLD ME THAT HE HAD BEEN ORDERED TO "PUT THE LID" ON EVERYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH THE ATTACK ON USS LIBERTY. WE WERE NEVER TO SPEAK OF IT AND WE WERE TO CAUTION EVERYONE ELSE INVOLVED THAT THEY COULD NEVER SPEAK OF IT AGAIN.45

19. I HAVE NO REASON TO DOUBT THE ACCURACY OF THAT STATEMENT AS I KNOW THAT THE COURT OF INQUIRY TRANSCRIPT THAT HAS BEEN RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC IS NOT THE SAME ONE THAT I CERTIFIED AND6 SENT OFF TO WASHINGTON.7

20. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE IT WAS NECESSARY, DUE TO THE EXIGENCIES OF TIME, TO HAND CORRECT8 AND INITIAL A SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OF PAGES. I HAVE EXAMINED THE RELEASED VERSION OF THE TRAN9 SCRIPT AND I DID NOT SEE ANY PAGES THAT BORE MY HAND CORRECTIONS AND INITIALS. ALSO, THE ORIGI10 NAL DID NOT HAVE ANY DELIBERATELY BLANK PAGES, AS THE RELEASED VERSION DOES. FINALLY, THE TESTIMONY OF LT. PAINTER CONCERNING THE DELIBERATE MACHINE GUNNING OF THE LIFE RAFTS BY THE ISRAELI TORPEDO BOAT CREWS, WHICH I DISTINCTLY RECALL BEING GIVEN AT THE COURT OF INQUIRY AND IN13 CLUDED IN THE ORIGINAL TRANSCRIPT, IS NOW MISSING AND HAS BEEN EXCISED.14 21. FOLLOWING THE CONCLUSION OF THE COURT OF INQUIRY, ADMIRAL KIDD AND I REMAINED IN15 CONTACT. THOUGH WE NEVER SPOKE OF THE ATTACK IN PUBLIC, WE DID DISCUSS IT BETWEEN OURSELVES,16 ON OCCASION. EVERY TIME WE DISCUSSED THE ATTACK, ADMIRAL KIDD WAS ADAMANT THAT IT WAS A DE

http://www.gtr5.com/Witnesses/boston.pdf

Finally, a note of warning to new readers, just to give you some idea of the types of wingnuts and bigots who peddle the USS Liberty conspiracy theory: JoeB131 recently said "Hitler was not the problem"

Why do you keep taking things out of context?

For those following along at home, the context of my statement was not that Hitler was anti-Semitic, but that GERMAN CULTURE was anti-Semitic. Hitler didn't have to convince the Germans to hate Jews, they already did. If 500-1500 years of Christian demonizing wasn't enough, there was the role Jewish revolutionaries played in the downfall of the Kaiser, or the role Jewish Bankers played in the Weimar Economic disaster.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Do you ever get tired of lying, Mormon Mike? Then again, you belong to a religion based on lies, so probably not.

These are the profiles of the USS Liberty vs the El-Quesir

View attachment 1116149

The Mistaken Identity Claim: USS Liberty vs El Quseir

www.gtr5.com

As you can see, the pictures of El Quseir were fairly large and relatively clear. The pictures show clearly that El Quseir had:

• two rows of portholes running along the sides of her hull,
• two tall and angled pole-masts (forward and aft),
• a small vertical pole-mast on top of middle superstructure,
• a small (two-level) superstructure,
• an angled stack behind the superstructure, and
• a vertical (90 degree) bow point. In all respects, El Quseir appeared like a classic "tramp steamer" -- a relatively common sight in the Mediterranean Sea region, before and during 1967.

Other than both ships having general hull lines of cargo-type ships, the two ships had little in common (as highlighted below). The USS Liberty had:

• no portholes in her hull,
• two tall and vertical pole-masts (forward and aft),
• a large tower-mast on top of forward superstructure,
• a large (four-level) superstructure,
• a vertical stack in the middle of the superstructure,
• an angled (78 degree) bow point,
• a very large radio antenna reflector dish aft the superstructure,
• a large radio antenna reflector dish at the forecastle level, and
• many other type radio antennas visible on her decks and masts.

Additionally, USS Liberty had her US Navy ID number "GTR5" painted in very large letters on both sides of her bow and stern. In all respects, USS Liberty appeared like a WW2-era Victory Ship converted to some type of communications ship, with US Navy markings. (Like "tramp steamers," civilian and military ships with Victory Ship type hulls were a relatively common sight in the Mediterranean Sea region before and during 1967.)

Again, if you have ever been involved in a military investigation, they tell you what the testimony will be before you say it. I remember one time an officer was caught doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing, and I kept documentation to cover my own ass. Not to go into too much detail, but the system bent over backwards to protect this officer's reputation. (He was kind of considered a golden boy.)

So given that the fix was in from the top on this one, I just don't take what is in the official record all that seriously.

I take what the survivors have testified to. And what whistleblowers have said after the fact.

The statement of Ward Boston, Jr., CAPT, USN JAG

18. ADMIRAL KIDD ALSO TOLD ME THAT HE HAD BEEN ORDERED TO "PUT THE LID" ON EVERYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH THE ATTACK ON USS LIBERTY. WE WERE NEVER TO SPEAK OF IT AND WE WERE TO CAUTION EVERYONE ELSE INVOLVED THAT THEY COULD NEVER SPEAK OF IT AGAIN.45

19. I HAVE NO REASON TO DOUBT THE ACCURACY OF THAT STATEMENT AS I KNOW THAT THE COURT OF INQUIRY TRANSCRIPT THAT HAS BEEN RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC IS NOT THE SAME ONE THAT I CERTIFIED AND6 SENT OFF TO WASHINGTON.7

20. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE IT WAS NECESSARY, DUE TO THE EXIGENCIES OF TIME, TO HAND CORRECT8 AND INITIAL A SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OF PAGES. I HAVE EXAMINED THE RELEASED VERSION OF THE TRAN9 SCRIPT AND I DID NOT SEE ANY PAGES THAT BORE MY HAND CORRECTIONS AND INITIALS. ALSO, THE ORIGI10 NAL DID NOT HAVE ANY DELIBERATELY BLANK PAGES, AS THE RELEASED VERSION DOES. FINALLY, THE TESTIMONY OF LT. PAINTER CONCERNING THE DELIBERATE MACHINE GUNNING OF THE LIFE RAFTS BY THE ISRAELI TORPEDO BOAT CREWS, WHICH I DISTINCTLY RECALL BEING GIVEN AT THE COURT OF INQUIRY AND IN13 CLUDED IN THE ORIGINAL TRANSCRIPT, IS NOW MISSING AND HAS BEEN EXCISED.14 21. FOLLOWING THE CONCLUSION OF THE COURT OF INQUIRY, ADMIRAL KIDD AND I REMAINED IN15 CONTACT. THOUGH WE NEVER SPOKE OF THE ATTACK IN PUBLIC, WE DID DISCUSS IT BETWEEN OURSELVES,16 ON OCCASION. EVERY TIME WE DISCUSSED THE ATTACK, ADMIRAL KIDD WAS ADAMANT THAT IT WAS A DE

This is so absurd. And around and around we go. No pilot doing a recon from at least 2 miles away is going to notice the features you list, nor is any pilot doing a strafing run going to notice such things. I notice you ignored the CIA report's point that the Liberty "could easily be mistaken" for the Egyptian ship, and that the Liberty and the Quesir had "similar hulls and arrangements of masts and stack" (LINK), which are large items that a 2-mile recon would notice.

You still ignore the hard evidence of the gun-camera footage, which shows the flag was not visible/not unfurled. You still ignore the intercepts of the Israeli communications that prove the Israelis did not know the Liberty was American until after the torpedo boats fired at it. You ignore the fact that the published Navy Court of Inquiry transcripts say nothing about the Israelis machine-gunning life rafts in the water and instead posit some obscene conspiracy theory where "the Jews" somehow altered the transcripts.

Why do you keep taking things out of context?

For those following along at home, the context of my statement was not that Hitler was anti-Semitic, but that GERMAN CULTURE was anti-Semitic. Hitler didn't have to convince the Germans to hate Jews, they already did. If 500-1500 years of Christian demonizing wasn't enough, there was the role Jewish revolutionaries played in the downfall of the Kaiser, or the role Jewish Bankers played in the Weimar Economic disaster.

People can go back and read your statements "in context" and see that you're now trying to weaselly back-track from them. Let's recap some of them:

Again, Hitler wasn't the problem. The problem was your average German who had to eat the family dog in 1919 because the feckless idiots overthrew the Kaiser and forced a humiliating peace.

Now, if you want to downplay the roll Jewish revolutionaries played in toppling the Kaiser, or how Jewish Bankers screwed Germany in the economic turmoil that occurred in the 1920's, that's fine.

What Hitler did was horrible. But the way Jews screwed Germany (and most of the rest of Europe) after World War I definitely provoked that animosity.

Was it [the Holocaust] bad? I guess.

The problem with most analysis of Nazism is that it ignores what an absolute [crap]-show Weimar Germany was.

Again, investigations [into the USS Liberty incident] that were told by LBJ what their conclusion was. But, no, no, our government isn't controlled by the Zionist Lobby at all.

You are right, I don't believe the Zionist *&$%$#, and I don't believe our lying traitor government that sold out to them decades ago.

Or Painter told this to the Navy Inquiry and it was covered up. This is the problem when you let Jews take over your government.

If Israel didn't exist, do you think we'd have a terror problem? We wouldn't.

[Regarding Hamas's October 7 attack that killed over 1,000 Israeli civilians] Yawn, guy, if you [the Israelis who lived near Gaza on October 7] are stupid enough to live next to people who want to murder you, don't come whining to me that they want to murder you.

Right, just keep pretending they [Jewish bankers who control the economy] aren't a thing.

 

[JoeB131]

This is so absurd. And around and around we go. No pilot doing a recon from at least 2 miles away is going to notice the features you list, nor is any pilot doing a strafing run going to notice such things. I notice you ignored the CIA report's point that the Liberty "could easily be mistaken" for the Egyptian ship, and that the Liberty and the Quesir had "similar hulls and arrangements of masts and stack" (LINK), which are large items that a 2-mile recon would notice.

You are right, I'm totally ignored what our government that has sold out to the Zionist Lobby says when it flies in the face of common ******* sense.

You don't "Mistake" a ship for another ship half its size with a different profile after circling it for hours.

You still ignore the hard evidence of the gun-camera footage, which shows the flag was not visible/not unfurled. You still ignore the intercepts of the Israeli communications that prove the Israelis did not know the Liberty was American until after the torpedo boats fired at it. You ignore the fact that the published Navy Court of Inquiry transcripts say nothing about the Israelis machine-gunning life rafts in the water and instead posit some obscene conspiracy theory where "the Jews" somehow altered the transcripts.

Except people involved in the investigation admit that evidence was suppressed or tampered with. This is why the men who survived that attack STILL know it was bullshit.

People can go back and read your statements "in context" and see that you're now trying to weaselly back-track from them. Let's recap some of them:

Well, that's a little closer to "Context", but the point was, I didn't say what you claim I said.

But again, for a Mormon, lying is as natural as breathing.

So you admit that I pointed out that Hitler wasn't so much the problem as German anti-Jewish feeling (I refuse to use the world Anti-Semitism, because it's a bullshit term, especially when used in terms of the Arab-Israeli conflict).

Again, you support Trump, who uses the same tactics Hitler used against undocumented immigrants, so I can't really see you having the moral high ground here.

But explaining to you the difference between a reason and an excuse is kind of pointless. No excuse for what the Germans did, but definitely there were reasons.

 

[PeterPilot]

mikegriffith1

You're the one posting absurd claims Mike. Exactly why you do that is known only to you.

 

[JoeB131]

mikegriffith1

You're the one posting absurd claims Mike. Exactly why you do that is known only to you.

if you want to see reallyabsurd stuff, click on his website... if the links are working today, you'll find all sorts of batshit insane stuff.

The Shroud of Turin is real.

RFK's Assassin was mind controlled by the CIA

Wounded Knee wasn't a slaughter

Joseph McCarthy was a swell guy.

 

[PeterPilot]

if you want to see reallyabsurd stuff, click on his website... if the links are working today, you'll find all sorts of batshit insane stuff.

The Shroud of Turin is real.

RFK's Assassin was mind controlled by the CIA

Wounded Knee wasn't a slaughter

Joseph McCarthy was a swell guy.

It is likely that Sirhan WAS a product of MKUltra type conditioning. More likely administered somehow by Mossad, with him being a Palestinian. Mossad always portrays Palestinians and Muslims as the bad guys.

 

[JoeB131]

It is likely that Sirhan WAS a product of MKUltra type conditioning. More likely administered somehow by Mossad, with him being a Palestinian. Mossad always portrays Palestinians and Muslims as the bad guys.

Um, yeah, guy, you see, the problem with conspiracy theories is that they often ignore Occam's razor. The simplist explanation is usually the right one.

In the case of the Liberty is that Israel tried to sink her.

In the case of Sirhan Sirhan, he was a crazy person trying to kill a prominent, Pro-Israel politician.

 

[PeterPilot]

Um, yeah, guy, you see, the problem with conspiracy theories is that they often ignore Occam's razor. The simplist explanation is usually the right one.

In the case of the Liberty is that Israel tried to sink her.

In the case of Sirhan Sirhan, he was a crazy person trying to kill a prominent, Pro-Israel politician.

So you believe, yes. I hope you weren't one of those guys who believed Joe Biden was sharp as a tack.

 

[JoeB131]

So you believe, yes. I hope you weren't one of those guys who believed Joe Biden was sharp as a tack.

Oh, no, I realize he had cognitive problems.

Which everyone ignored until they couldn't anymore.

 

[PeterPilot]

Oh, no, I realize he had cognitive problems.

Which everyone ignored until they couldn't anymore.

It's good to see one apply Occam's Razor to historical events. However OR becomes irrelevant if the one applying it is ignorant of certain relevant facts.

I am only moderately knowledgeable regarding the shooting of RFK, and part of the information shows that the bullet that killed Kennedy could not possibly have been fired by Sirhan. Wrong position as I recall.

 

[mikegriffith1]

if you want to see reallyabsurd stuff, click on his website... if the links are working today, you'll find all sorts of batshit insane stuff.

Your definition of "insane stuff" is comical. Your idea of "insane stuff" is any position you reject. It is hilarious that you would compare these supposedly "insane" positions with the truly nutty, obscene positions you have taken.

The Shroud of Turin is real.

Uh, yeah, it is. Obviously, you don't know that most of the scientists who've studied the Shroud have concluded it is authentic. Heard of STURP? Google it. STURP was the team of scientists who examined the Shroud in 1978, and all of them concluded the image on the Shroud could not be manmade.

RFK's assassin was mind controlled by the CIA

We've been over this before, and you just keep repeating this distortion and ignoring evidence you can't explain. Again, one of the world's leading experts on hypnosis examined Sirhan for months and concluded he had been hypno-programmed, as I explain on my RFK website.

Wounded Knee wasn't a slaughter.

I think you mean "massacre," but it was neither a slaughter nor a massacre--it was a battle that the Indians started. Are you ever going to address the evidence I present about the incident on my website? You're as unread on Wounded Knee as you are on Custer's Last Stand.

Joseph McCarthy was a swell guy.

And we saw in my thread on McCarthy that you know next to nothing about the man and his investigation. You just follow the standard liberal propaganda about him.

Now, let's revisit some of the truly obscene, fringe statements you have made--I am quoting them verbatim from your replies:

Again, Hitler wasn't the problem. The problem was your average German who had to eat the family dog in 1919 because the feckless idiots overthrew the Kaiser and forced a humiliating peace.

Now, if you want to downplay the roll Jewish revolutionaries played in toppling the Kaiser, or how Jewish Bankers screwed Germany in the economic turmoil that occurred in the 1920's, that's fine.

What Hitler did was horrible. But the way Jews screwed Germany (and most of the rest of Europe) after World War I definitely provoked that animosity.

Was it [the Holocaust] bad? I guess.

The problem with most analysis of Nazism is that it ignores what an absolute [crap]-show Weimar Germany was.

Again, investigations [into the USS Liberty incident] that were told by LBJ what their conclusion was. But, no, no, our government isn't controlled by the Zionist Lobby at all.

You are right, I don't believe the Zionist *&$%$#, and I don't believe our lying traitor government that sold out to them decades ago.

Or Painter told this to the Navy Inquiry and it was covered up. This is the problem when you let Jews take over your government.

If Israel didn't exist, do you think we'd have a terror problem? We wouldn't.

[Regarding Hamas's October 7 attack that killed over 1,000 Israeli civilians] Yawn, guy, if you [the Israelis who lived near Gaza on October 7] are stupid enough to live next to people who want to murder you, don't come whining to me that they want to murder you.

Right, just keep pretending they [Jewish bankers who control the economy] aren't a thing.