US Needs to Get Out of Ukraine and NATO

[Zavulon]

I think they trust the power of the US and NATO to the promises of Russia.

Or, more likely, they just like American dollars. The question is - why the USA pay money to Europe instead of taking money from them? Why America endanger American civilians instead of defending them?

 

[alang1216]

Or, more likely, they just like American dollars. The question is - why the USA pay money to Europe instead of taking money from them? Why America endanger American civilians instead of defending them?

Nikita Khrushchev: Мы вас похороним!

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

You can call any shit democracy, but it gives a stink to the word.

Not in the slightest; Russia is a dictatorship headed a la Stalineque.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

You can call any shit democracy, but it gives a stink to the word.

You are talking to the vile man in the mirror.

 

[hondo 50]

US needs to GTFO of a lot of places.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Every civilized human being knows that Russia is threatening all of eastern Europe.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Or, more likely, they just like American dollars. The question is - why the USA pay money to Europe instead of taking money from them? Why America endanger American civilians instead of defending them?

Or more likely, if the US doesn't have allies, how does it remain a world power? If it's not a world power, are its citizen safer from Russian aggression or less?

The reality is that the US needs its allies, needs Europe to be a bastion of security and power.

China is bigger than the US, the EU, Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand combined. Add in Russia on China's side and Iran....

 

[Jarlaxle]

Every civilized human being knows that Russia is threatening all of eastern Europe.

Then the Europeans should get off their asses and do something about it!

Or more likely, if the US doesn't have allies, how does it remain a world power? If it's not a world power, are its citizen safer from Russian aggression or less?

The reality is that the US needs its allies, needs Europe to be a bastion of security and power.

China is bigger than the US, the EU, Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand combined. Add in Russia on China's side and Iran....

The US has no allies, just welfare cases.

 

[Zavulon]

Nikita Khrushchev: Мы вас похороним!

So what? I'm pretty sure that he didn't think that that we could bury America by sending tanks in Europe and then, via Atlantic, in America. Vice versa, he send Russian missiles on Cuba. It might have worked (and in 1963 the USA might be already finished), but it didn't.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

jwoodie, just stop. Nobody needs a Russian stooge here pontificating away.

…paid for by Raytheon

 

[Zavulon]

Or more likely, if the US doesn't have allies, how does it remain a world power?

It simple. By choosing proper allies. Something like: the USA make alliance with Russia and also dismiss NATO. America doesn't threaten Russia, Russia doesn't threaten America. Both defend their own interests, not European, nor Chinese, nor Indian or African. Europe is getting poorer, China and India are getting poorer, Russia and America are getting richer. If America have problems with Mexico or Venezuela - Russia doesn't defend them. If Russia has problems with Poland or Romania - America doesn't defend them either.

If it's not a world power, are its citizen safer from Russian aggression or less?

Wearing a tinfoil crown of the "Leader of the Free World" doesn't increase safety of American citizens by itself. You invested a lot of money in Europe and now Europe show you fingers and say "F#ck you". Why? Because your tinfoil crown doesn't give you actual ability to control Europeans.

If you: a) give money to Germany, b) ready to fight a war to defend Germany, it means that you have lesser money and lesser safety.
But, from the other hand, if you a) take money from Germany, b) don't give a sh-t about defending Germany and rist a war with Russia - you are both richer and safer.

The reality is that the US needs its allies, needs Europe to be a bastion of security and power.

How so? To be bastion of security America already has two oceans.

China is bigger than the US, the EU, Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand combined. Add in Russia on China's side and Iran....

To be clear it was the USA who, first, industrialised China by giving them all their technologies and, second - pushed Russia and Iran (and a lot of other countries) in Chinese hugs.

 

[Zavulon]

Every civilized human being knows that Russia is threatening all of eastern Europe.

Actually, now, in the age of ICBMs both Russia and America are threatening the whole world.

 

[alang1216]

So what? I'm pretty sure that he didn't think that that we could bury America by sending tanks in Europe and then, via Atlantic, in America. Vice versa, he send Russian missiles on Cuba. It might have worked (and in 1963 the USA might be already finished), but it didn't.

I remember the Cold War, there was real fear of the USSR. Based in reality or not, it was definitely a widely held belief.
Domino Theory:

The classic domino theory, primarily associated with the Cold War, suggested that if one country fell to communism, neighboring countries would also likely fall, creating a chain reaction. The US used this theory to justify its involvement in Vietnam, fearing the spread of communism in Southeast Asia​

 

[frigidweirdo]

It simple. By choosing proper allies. Something like: the USA make alliance with Russia and also dismiss NATO. America doesn't threaten Russia, Russia doesn't threaten America. Both defend their own interests, not European, nor Chinese, nor Indian or African. Europe is getting poorer, China and India are getting poorer, Russia and America are getting richer. If America have problems with Mexico or Venezuela - Russia doesn't defend them. If Russia has problems with Poland or Romania - America doesn't defend them either.


Wearing a tinfoil crown of the "Leader of the Free World" doesn't increase safety of American citizens by itself. You invested a lot of money in Europe and now Europe show you fingers and say "F#ck you". Why? Because your tinfoil crown doesn't give you actual ability to control Europeans.

If you: a) give money to Germany, b) ready to fight a war to defend Germany, it means that you have lesser money and lesser safety.
But, from the other hand, if you a) take money from Germany, b) don't give a sh-t about defending Germany and rist a war with Russia - you are both richer and safer.


How so? To be bastion of security America already has two oceans.


To be clear it was the USA who, first, industrialised China by giving them all their technologies and, second - pushed Russia and Iran (and a lot of other countries) in Chinese hugs.

Who would trust Putin? He's shown time and time again there's not a single trustworthy bone in his body.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Actually, now, in the age of ICBMs both Russia and America are threatening the whole world.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

You finally got it right.

 

[Zavulon]

I remember the Cold War, there was real fear of the USSR. Based in reality or not, it was definitely a widely held belief.
Domino Theory:

The classic domino theory, primarily associated with the Cold War, suggested that if one country fell to communism, neighboring countries would also likely fall, creating a chain reaction. The US used this theory to justify its involvement in Vietnam, fearing the spread of communism in Southeast Asia​

They were so scared of communism, that gave away all their technologies to the Communist China? They were so afraid of communism, that established communism in the USA? Anyway. If they made a peace with Russia in 80s, what was the reason to invest money in Germany, especially after Russia dismounted Warsaw Pact? Did they think that Russia will conquer West Germany, France and Britain?

 

[Zavulon]

Who would trust Putin? He's shown time and time again there's not a single trustworthy bone in his body.

Of course, now it's too late for the peaceful coexistence and the big war is practically inevitable. You came in Russia, you started to kill Russians. And now, with your Trump, who is actually untrustworthy, it seems to me that you won't stop doing it until you lose Alaska and California.

The question was why you decided to do it back in 90s? Why Americans decided, instead of getting richer and safer, expand NATO eastward and make Americans poorer and lesser safe?

 

[Zavulon]

You finally got it right.

And the question is - why, instead of acting together and making both Russia and America richer and safer, America choosed the way of confrontation, threatening Russian interests and unmounting the world's safety system?

 

[JWBooth]

And the question is - why, instead of acting together and making both Russia and America richer and safer, America choosed the way of confrontation, threatening Russian interests and unmounting the world's safety system?

Hegemons do not suffer competitors.