US Needs to Get Out of Ukraine and NATO

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Zelensky is a hero. Putin is a mass murderer.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

"Russia can’t even beat puny Ukraine" is rich coming from americans.
You’ve been conquered - politically, financially, and spiritually - by a country the size of New Jersey.

That's why you Back down from the US?

 

[alang1216]

the NATO military establishment maintained a hostile attitude towards Russia, and expanded into many of the Eastern European countries near Russia's border.

Did NATO expand or did these countries ask to join because they feared Russia?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The countries joined NATO because Russia was hostile to them, jwoodie.

jwoodie is a Russian stooge, nothing more.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The US has no more business getting involved in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine than it would in the conflict between India and Pakistan, and NATO has even less reason to be involved.

NATO was formed in 1949 to protect Western Europe from invasion by the Soviet Union, which had the world's largest army at the end of WW2. The ensuing Cold War justified this alliance until the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991. After that the threat of International Communism ceased to exist, and Western Europe began cooperative relations with Russia. However the NATO military establishment maintained a hostile attitude towards Russia, and expanded into many of the Eastern European countries near Russia's border. When Ukraine became the next candidate for NATO expansion, Russia responded with military action to prevent this from happening. NATO countries (including the US) then responded with military assistance to Ukraine, even though it was not (yet) a NATO member.

NATO is now involved in an undeclared war with Russia, even though Russia has not invaded any NATO member. This fact further undermines the original purpose of NATO, and actually lessens the security of its European members. It also places the US in an unacceptable position of being drawn into conflicts which have no bearing on its own national security interests. The countries of Western Europe have economies many times that of Russia, and could easily defend themselves if they needed to. As a result, the US has no need or responsibility to defend them or become involved in extraneous foreign conflicts.

Sure, become weaker... that'll make the US better.... it can then become a Russian or Chinese proxy...

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

jwoodie's propaganda reveals him for the Russian running dog that he has always been.

 

[Ringo]

 

[JWBooth]

The US has no more business getting involved in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine than it would in the conflict between India and Pakistan, and NATO has even less reason to be involved.

NATO was formed in 1949 to protect Western Europe from invasion by the Soviet Union, which had the world's largest army at the end of WW2. The ensuing Cold War justified this alliance until the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991. After that the threat of International Communism ceased to exist, and Western Europe began cooperative relations with Russia. However the NATO military establishment maintained a hostile attitude towards Russia, and expanded into many of the Eastern European countries near Russia's border. When Ukraine became the next candidate for NATO expansion, Russia responded with military action to prevent this from happening. NATO countries (including the US) then responded with military assistance to Ukraine, even though it was not (yet) a NATO member.

NATO is now involved in an undeclared war with Russia, even though Russia has not invaded any NATO member. This fact further undermines the original purpose of NATO, and actually lessens the security of its European members. It also places the US in an unacceptable position of being drawn into conflicts which have no bearing on its own national security interests. The countries of Western Europe have economies many times that of Russia, and could easily defend themselves if they needed to. As a result, the US has no need or responsibility to defend them or become involved in extraneous foreign conflicts.

Absolutely damn right.

 

[Ringo]

“The only thing that could provoke a hostile and forceful response from Russia is NATO expansion into the Baltics,” Joe Biden said during a speech on June 20, 1997.

 

[schmidlap]

The US has no more business getting involved in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine than it would in the conflict between India and Pakistan, and NATO has even less reason to be involved.

NATO was formed in 1949 to protect Western Europe from invasion by the Soviet Union, which had the world's largest army at the end of WW2. The ensuing Cold War justified this alliance until the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991. After that the threat of International Communism ceased to exist, and Western Europe began cooperative relations with Russia. However the NATO military establishment maintained a hostile attitude towards Russia, and expanded into many of the Eastern European countries near Russia's border. When Ukraine became the next candidate for NATO expansion, Russia responded with military action to prevent this from happening. NATO countries (including the US) then responded with military assistance to Ukraine, even though it was not (yet) a NATO member.

NATO is now involved in an undeclared war with Russia, even though Russia has not invaded any NATO member. This fact further undermines the original purpose of NATO, and actually lessens the security of its European members. It also places the US in an unacceptable position of being drawn into conflicts which have no bearing on its own national security interests. The countries of Western Europe have economies many times that of Russia, and could easily defend themselves if they needed to. As a result, the US has no need or responsibility to defend them or become involved in extraneous foreign conflicts.

Surrendering to the territorial ambitions of Vlad Putin and Kim Jung Un is antithetical to the interest of democracy. Just because Trump has proven impotent in his promise to end hostilities does not mean we must surrender.

NATO countries scrambled fighter jets early on Sunday, according to the Polish military, after a Ukrainian official said Moscow had launched its largest-scale air attack on the country in more than three years.​

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Poland's Operational Command said its fighter jets, along with other NATO aircraft, were scrambled with ground-based air defenses and reconnaissance systems put on the "highest state of readiness" after Russia launched overnight attacks on Ukrainian soil...​

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Ukrainian authorities said Russia had launched 477 drones and decoys, as well as 60 missiles of various types, at Ukraine overnight. The country's air force said it had shot down 211 drones with another 225 straying before hitting their targets. Air defenses intercepted one of the short-range ballistic missiles, four of the Kalibr cruise missiles and 33 Kh-101 missiles, according to the military.​

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The attacks into Sunday were the largest airstrikes on Ukraine of more than three years of full-scale war in the country in terms of number of incoming threats...​

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[Ringo]

Surrendering to the territorial ambitions of Vlad Putin and Kim Jung Un is antithetical to the interest of democracy.

You can call any shit democracy, but it gives a stink to the word.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Putin and Kim are Ringo's models.

 

[schmidlap]

You can call any shit democracy, but it gives a stink to the word.

If your support for the territorial aggression of Russia and North Korea compels you to dismiss as "shit" Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Montenegro, Netherlands, North Macedonia, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom, Finland and Sweden, that is your prerogative.

I demur.

 

[Zavulon]

Did NATO expand or did these countries ask to join because they feared Russia?

The USA have been paying for this expansion and payed a lot. But nobody actually asked people neither in the USA, nor in eastern Europe if they really prefer war against Russia to peaceful and mutually acceptable coexistence.

 

[Zavulon]

If your support for the territorial aggression of Russia and North Korea compels you to dismiss as "shit" Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Montenegro, Netherlands, North Macedonia, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom, Finland and Sweden, that is your prerogative.

Why not?

I demur.

Do you think anybody cares?

 

[luiza]

Russians will continue killing Ukrainians until no more Russians are left.

A classic Horsey Horse stupidity based on not knowing relative military strength .
You never did understand the conflict .

I remember you and MadTooth braying when the UAF captured an abandoned village and saw the next steps as the UAF marching into Crimea taking everything in front them .
Whereas the UAF are now overrun and on the verge of total surrender.

More of a Horsey Ass or Arse than Horse .

 

[schmidlap]

Why not?


Do you think anybody cares?

About defending democracy and resisting Putin's and Kim's invasion of Ukraine?

Yes, demonstrably, many care. Including patriotic Americans, of course:

Most Americans support Russia sanctions; many support sanctioning countries that buy Russian oil​

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Zavulon, no one cares what Russian running dogs and lackeys think.

 

[alang1216]

The USA have been paying for this expansion and payed a lot. But nobody actually asked people neither in the USA, nor in eastern Europe if they really prefer war against Russia to peaceful and mutually acceptable coexistence.

I think they trust the power of the US and NATO to the promises of Russia.

 

[DGS49]

As is usually the case, Our Beloved President has it about right.

NATO is basically a European defense coalition, with the U.S. as a backup. In the years before Trump it was run as an American defense promise, backed up halfheartedly by an ever-growing number of European countries. Trump is trying to flip that paradigm, while not completely pulling the rug out from under Ukraine.

Putin is evil, and he cannot be trusted to meet any commitment. It must be demonstrated to him that the commitment works to his benefit. This is what is proving so difficult in the current conflict.

The Ukrainians have proven to be fantastic, and their pursuit of the war has a benefit to the U.S., as it depletes Russian resources. I think we are better equipped to replace ours than Russia is to replace its resources.