US may send fighter jets to Ukraine

[toomuchtime_]

I have seen in the western media, much boasting about how Russian air defenses have "failed," to shoot down HIMARS missiles, while, at the same time, bragging how these new systems, operated by western mercenaries, (read, US servicemen,) are making a large impact on the war.

IOW? I suspect, it is only a matter of time before the Russian central command gives the order to unleash the full force of the Russian air-force, and strike those systems directly?

This is, in my estimation, a dangerous escalation, which will lead to American deaths.

So? Naturally Washington wants NATO air forces to defend them.

MSN

www.msn.com

"One should not be afraid [of HIMARS], one should fight it. It is not a panacea, it is one of the weapons that the enemy uses now," Andrei Kartapolov, head of Russia's State Duma Defense Committee, told TASS on Thursday. "At the same time I want to emphasize that it is foreign specialists, that is to say, mercenaries, who steer it at a target. I don't rule out American servicemen working there."

"The system is serious, but there is a countermeasure—our air defense facilities," the legislator added, claiming that on Wednesday, Russia's air defense shot down 12 missiles over the Antonivka Road Bridge, also known as the Antonovsky Bridge, in Ukraine's southern Kherson region, which is currently occupied by Russian forces.. . . "

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-nato-sergey-

http://

That is absurd.

The western propaganda continually beats us all over the head, with how Russia is having a hard time, just chewing on Donbas.

In the same breath, you want us to have a hair on fire panic attack that Russia is going to take over all of Europe or even the Balkans.

I have no idea, how you folks take any of this seriously, I really don't.

Even when there are continual statements coming out of Russia, that all they want, is national security, no ambition to take over Europe.

Not according to Putin:

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday compared himself to the country’s first emperor, Peter the Great, in a speech marking the 350th anniversary of the figure’s birth.

Putin made the comments while visiting a multimedia exhibit about the 18th-century leader, who led a conquest of the Baltic region while at war with Sweden. Putin remarked that Peter the Great viewed the land as rightfully Russian, drawing a connection to the current war Russia is waging against Ukraine.


“He was returning it and strengthening it,” Putin said, according to The New York Times. “Well, apparently, it has also fallen to us to return and to strengthen.”

Putin also noted that when Peter founded the city of St. Petersburg, “none of the countries of Europe recognized it as Russian.”

“It’s impossible — do you understand — impossible to build a fence around a country like Russia,” Putin added.

Putin compares self to Peter the Great, says he is taking back Russian lands

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday compared himself to the country’s first emperor, Peter the Great, in a speech marking the 350th anniversary of the figure’s birth. Putin made …

thehill.com

Putin is clear that the purpose of the invasion of Ukraine is the westward expansion of the Russian empire.

 

[Concerned American]

We are out of it. We have no troops on the ground or in the airspace above that country.

You call billions of dollars and materiel being "out of it?" You are in denial.

 

[MisterBeale]

http://

Not according to Putin:

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday compared himself to the country’s first emperor, Peter the Great, in a speech marking the 350th anniversary of the figure’s birth.

Putin made the comments while visiting a multimedia exhibit about the 18th-century leader, who led a conquest of the Baltic region while at war with Sweden. Putin remarked that Peter the Great viewed the land as rightfully Russian, drawing a connection to the current war Russia is waging against Ukraine.


“He was returning it and strengthening it,” Putin said, according to The New York Times. “Well, apparently, it has also fallen to us to return and to strengthen.”

Putin also noted that when Peter founded the city of St. Petersburg, “none of the countries of Europe recognized it as Russian.”

“It’s impossible — do you understand — impossible to build a fence around a country like Russia,” Putin added.

Putin compares self to Peter the Great, says he is taking back Russian lands

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday compared himself to the country’s first emperor, Peter the Great, in a speech marking the 350th anniversary of the figure’s birth. Putin made …

thehill.com

Putin is clear that the purpose of the invasion of Ukraine is the westward expansion of the Russian empire.

For every nationalist, politically chauvinist statement you can find from Putin, which is clearly targeted toward domestic audiences, I could probably find two from him, indicating that the world needs to look toward a multi-polar world of many power centers.

Trump too, talked with such nationalist language, it plays well to domestic audiences.

It doesn't mean a thing.

 

[Concerned American]

And everybody knows what America's involvement is now.

And Canada's, eh, duck? Canadian troops are on the ground in Ukraine. Let's not be hypocritical---AGAIN.

 

[Concerned American]

oth you and Harley are shining some long awaited light on this war that is America against Russia.

Once again, you're full of shit, duck. Canada and the rest of NATO are as heavily represented in Ukraine as the US is. You are flat out LYING when you try to lay it all at the feet of the US.

 

[Concerned American]

Blow it up. If we are going to give Ukraine jets, why not? Actually, just do what Trump had done to stop Russia from using the pipeline and sell to Europe.

Trump had it right all along. Fuck conventional wars--nobody wins. If you want their attention, hit them in the pocketbook. That strategy was working and where we are with the policies that have been enacted since Trump left office is proof. That is why the democrat globalists are STILL trying to discredit him--they are TERRIFIED of DJT.

 

[Ringo]

In Volnovakha, they have already started pouring concrete foundations for new five-storey houses. That's what these evil Russians are carrying with their world. Houses schools and hospitals are being built at an incredible speed

 

[toomuchtime_]

For every nationalist, politically chauvinist statement you can find from Putin, which is clearly targeted toward domestic audiences, I could probably find two from him, indicating that the world needs to look toward a multi-polar world of many power centers.

Trump too, talked with such nationalist language, it plays well to domestic audiences.

It doesn't mean a thing.

Imperialist ambitions and wanting to see a multipolar planet are not mutually contradictory goals. I assume everything Putin says publicly is intended for domestic consumption since Putin controls all the media in Russia but that in no way disqualifies it from being his true ambition. A few years before his invasion of Georgia, Putin also talked about how enraged he was that nations that had previously been parts of the Russian empire were now free sovereign nations:

Russian President Vladimir Putin told the nation Monday that the collapse of the Soviet empire “was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century” and had fostered separatist movements inside Russia.

In his annual state of the nation address to parliament and the country’s top political leaders, Putin said the Soviet collapse also was a tragedy for Russians.


“First and foremost it is worth acknowledging that the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century,” Putin said. “As for the Russian people, it became a genuine tragedy. Tens of millions of our fellow citizens and countrymen found themselves beyond the fringes of Russian territory.

“The epidemic of collapse has spilled over to Russia itself,” he said, referring to separatist movements such as those in Chechnya.

Putin’s statements were some of his strongest language to date about the Soviet collapse and come a month before the nation celebrates the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II in Europe, a conflict Russians call the “Great Patriotic War.”

Putin: Soviet collapse a 'genuine tragedy'

In his annual state of the nation address on Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin called the collapse of the Soviet empire “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.”

www.nbcnews.com

Do you remember the Great Patriotic War? You know, the one that started in earnest when Russia made a deal with Nazi Germany to split up Poland and then attacked Finland and finally tried to take some of the Polish land it had ceded to Germany and so provoked the German invasion of Russia. At the end of the Great Patriotic War Russia reneged on all of its promises at Yalta and held all of eastern Europe in bondage for 45 years until the USSR collapsed under the weight of its corruption and incompetence. Whether under the Czars or the Communists or under Russia's current fascist government, imperialism has always been a core value of Russian culture.

 

[White 6]

You call billions of dollars and materiel being "out of it?" You are in denial.

I go with the troops on the ground standard, like it or not.

 

[Concerned American]

I go with the troops on the ground standard, like it or not.

I don't have a preference one way or the other, you're still in denial.

 

[para bellum]

It is much easier to find people in Ukraine who understand English, than to find people in the US who understand Ukrainian. I suppose.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure of that too. The language issue doesn't seem to slow them down much, We've seen them operating the French Caesars, German and Dutch PhZ2000's, M109's from Norway, M270's from the UK, HIMARS from the US, and their own Skif ATGM's in Arabic. The wide variety of IFV's and APC's are all different languages too.

In one of the training videos they just had hand written labels taped next to the controls. Heck, all of my CNC machines use symbols instead of words on the mechanical parts, the programming is it's own language entirely.

A self propelled gun is kind of like an excavator. If you know how to run an excavator, you can run pretty much any excavator even if you can't read the controls. Most of the learning curve for the Ukrainian gunners is about the different math and emplacement routines involved with Western artillery.

What will hurt them is the maintenance and sustainment for all these disparate systems. Using them is one thing, keeping them running in a war is a bigger challenge. They will need to be returned to Western Ukraine or Poland for depot work and the logistics of that, you know...

The authorization for pilot training is $100 Mn in the 2023 NDAA, I suppose we think we can pull some F-16's out of AMARC and whip them into shape, but I think it's a bad idea. JAS-39 Gripen is so much better suited to Ukraine, and a better jet both short and long term.

If the Russians keep shooting down their own jets it won't matter, lol.

Plus the combination of drones, counterbattery, and long range precision fires plugs a lot of the holes created by the lack of close air support, and at lower risk and cost.

 

[MisterBeale]

Imperialist ambitions and wanting to see a multipolar planet are not mutually contradictory goals. I assume everything Putin says publicly is intended for domestic consumption since Putin controls all the media in Russia but that in no way disqualifies it from being his true ambition. A few years before his invasion of Georgia, Putin also talked about how enraged he was that nations that had previously been parts of the Russian empire were now free sovereign nations:

Russian President Vladimir Putin told the nation Monday that the collapse of the Soviet empire “was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century” and had fostered separatist movements inside Russia.

In his annual state of the nation address to parliament and the country’s top political leaders, Putin said the Soviet collapse also was a tragedy for Russians.


“First and foremost it is worth acknowledging that the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century,” Putin said. “As for the Russian people, it became a genuine tragedy. Tens of millions of our fellow citizens and countrymen found themselves beyond the fringes of Russian territory.

“The epidemic of collapse has spilled over to Russia itself,” he said, referring to separatist movements such as those in Chechnya.

Putin’s statements were some of his strongest language to date about the Soviet collapse and come a month before the nation celebrates the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II in Europe, a conflict Russians call the “Great Patriotic War.”

Putin: Soviet collapse a 'genuine tragedy'

In his annual state of the nation address on Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin called the collapse of the Soviet empire “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.”

www.nbcnews.com

Do you remember the Great Patriotic War? You know, the one that started in earnest when Russia made a deal with Nazi Germany to split up Poland and then attacked Finland and finally tried to take some of the Polish land it had ceded to Germany and so provoked the German invasion of Russia. At the end of the Great Patriotic War Russia reneged on all of its promises at Yalta and held all of eastern Europe in bondage for 45 years until the USSR collapsed under the weight of its corruption and incompetence. Whether under the Czars or the Communists or under Russia's current fascist government, imperialism has always been a core value of Russian culture.

Yeah, I know.

I have heard it all before.

War propaganda, nice. Thanks.

I don't buy any of it. The war was manufactured by both sides. Foundations funded by billionaires, determined over a century ago, that the best way to bring quick social change, was through war. All these global elites are in on it. They have tried everything else, and now war, is the quickest way to bring social change, it always is.

Resetting Without Schwab: Russia & the Fourth Industrial Revolution​

Despite the World Economic Forum severing ties with Russia, Moscow has shown little interest in deviating from Klaus Schwab’s Great Reset playbook. Will the growing split between East and West result in fundamentally different paths?
One moment, please...
WWW.unlimitedhangout.com/2022/07/investigative-reports/resetting-without-schwab-russia-the-fourth-industrial-revolution/

 

[para bellum]

I don't buy any of it. The war was manufactured by both sides. Foundations funded by billionaires, determined over a century ago, that the best way to bring quick social change, was through war.

Whatever. I mean, if you believe it's all run by an invisible hand of Superfriends a the WEF, and there's nothing anyone can do about it, then why post? Why do anything?

I should not care that some teenager in Ukraine is just working in a coffee shop, serving a customer one morning and a missile blows the hell out of the place? Oh well. It's just part of the Great Reset, sure am glad that wasn't me?

I call that attitude bullshit. I don't fucking care if Klaus whoever is doing what. I'm pissed off that girl couldn't even make a cup of coffee in peace.

The person directly responsible for that is Putin.

 

[Darkwind]

We should directly pit the US against Russia. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Concerned American]

We should directly pit the US against Russia. What could possibly go wrong?

All hell would break loose, however the question raised in the hypothetical video does beg the answer, no great loss.

 

[Darkwind]

All hell would break loose, however the question raised in the hypothetical video does beg the answer, no great loss.

Well, I disagree. Not all hope is gone. At least not yet.

But those who speak for and are committed to bringing the United States directly into the conflict and placing US military technology and combat might need to be ridiculed. They are dangerous and not very sane.

The US would make fairly quick work of Russia. Our current military has spent the last 20 years honing power and tactics, they are battle-hardened and razor sharp.

Putin would have zero option but to launch the big dogs (nukes) and that would be the end of everything.

 

[Ringo]

Most of the learning curve for the Ukrainian gunners is about the different math and emplacement routines involved with Western artillery.

Good luck with all that learning curve!

 

[Concerned American]

Well, I disagree. Not all hope is gone. At least not yet.

I don't know what you are disagreeing with. I just stated what you did--If a nuke fell on NYC tomorrow, all hell would break loose. Also, it would be no great loss if it fell on NYC.

 

[para bellum]

Kicking Russia out of Ukraine does not give Putin cause for using a nuclear weapon on anyone, and it is contrary to Russia's stated nuclear doctrine.

The nuclear taboo works to Russia's favor, and no P5 country has chosen to go nuclear rather than lose the small war.

The best time to end Putin's imperial ambitions is right now. We better not miss this chance.

 

[Concerned American]

Good luck with all that learning curve!

Sounds like something I heard after the 1975 withdrawal from Vietnam. We abandoned the fifth largest air force in the world there. An American pilot said that there was only one thing worse than a Vietnamese pilot and that was a Vietnamese aircraft mechanic.