US may send fighter jets to Ukraine

[TNHarley]

Well I was against both Desert Wars, Afghan (as an occupation), Syria and Libya (unless it meant Nato was going to be the boots)

But Putin's a different cat. This is not about neocons, this is about regular old cold war warriors. But we need to end it.

WE dont.

 

[bendog]

Do you REALLY believe the instructions for this piece of equipment, are written in Russian or Ukrainian?

Or that the Ukrainian armed services has enough folks that speak English, and trained to operate them?

HIMARS

The HIMARS rocket launcher is a flexible, affordable and highly effective precision fires system designed to meet the demands of the modern battlefield.

lockheedmartin.com

dhttp://military-today.com/artillery/himars.htm#:~:text=It%20has%20been%20exported%20to%20Jordan%20%2812%29%2C%20Singapore,in%20order%20to%20defend%20against%20the%20Russian%20invasion.oesn't seem a problem.

Language doesn't seem a barrier for its predecessor, the M270

M270 Multiple Launch Rocket System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[bendog]

WE dont.

Yeah we do. Unless we want another European war.

 

[bendog]

It sounds cold blooded but I think the US sees the battlefield and the sanctions as part of the same strategy, so the goal has not been to drive the Russians out of Ukraine with military force but to hold the ground in Ukraine while the sanctions weaken the Russian economy which will weaken Russia's ability to make war and make defeat seem inevitable to Russia.

The Ukrainian pilots already know how to fly fighters so I'm guessing they just need to become familiar with the controls and capabilities of the new planes so perhaps that won't take too long.

Yeah, that may be true. It is coldblooded, but the reality is we're trying to stop Putin before he invades Georgia again, and really, we couldn't stop him if he just nibble nibble and finally reassimilates the Baltics. Ukraine's big, like Poland.

It may be that the Russian "culture" just wants to be an empire. There's support for the Russian view going back to Dostoyevski and more so Tolstoy that "they" are not just the guardians of Europe from the East, but actually "they" are the guardian of all of Europe, and by domination they can end all wars.

Sort of ironic compared to neocons

 

[MisterBeale]

dhttp://military-today.com/artillery/himars.htm#:~:text=It%20has%20been%20exported%20to%20Jordan%20%2812%29%2C%20Singapore,in%20order%20to%20defend%20against%20the%20Russian%20invasion.oesn't seem a problem.

Language doesn't seem a barrier for its predecessor, the M270

M270 Multiple Launch Rocket System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I am not saying it would be, if it were specifically manufactured for the target nation.

IMO? I don't think these were. Do you believe these were? Wow, that is some speedy production, producing them in months?

My take, is we just gave them units that already existed. That is all I am saying.

 

[MisterBeale]

Yeah we do. Unless we want another European war.

That is absurd.

The western propaganda continually beats us all over the head, with how Russia is having a hard time, just chewing on Donbas.

In the same breath, you want us to have a hair on fire panic attack that Russia is going to take over all of Europe or even the Balkans.

I have no idea, how you folks take any of this seriously, I really don't.

Even when there are continual statements coming out of Russia, that all they want, is national security, no ambition to take over Europe.

 

[White 6]

Do you REALLY believe the instructions for this piece of equipment, are written in Russian or Ukrainian?

Or that the Ukrainian armed services has enough folks that speak English, and trained to operate them?

HIMARS

The HIMARS rocket launcher is a flexible, affordable and highly effective precision fires system designed to meet the demands of the modern battlefield.

lockheedmartin.com

No, but like Lockheed Martin had trainers for the US Military, at least initially, they may be the trainers for HIMARS being supplied or sold to Ukraine. Contractors do all sorts of thing, regular US troops do not become involved in. These are very expensive systems. Factory reps often train on very expensive and complex systems in the civilian world as in the military world. It is good business.

 

[Failzero]

4 Countries could cough up Migs but we want to send our second & third tier Fighter jets ?

 

[White 6]

Come on White, you're too smart for that any longer. And everybody knows what America's involvement is now.

Save for disagreement on the number of Americans in the Ukraine fighting hands-on.
A couple of dozen or thousands?

It is a recognized threshold standard. Show me proof of US troops on the ground (not contractors, or Mercs and I will concede the point.

 

[bendog]

I am not saying it would be, if it were specifically manufactured for the target nation.

IMO? I don't think these were. Do you believe these were? Wow, that is some speedy production, producing them in months?

My take, is we just gave them units that already existed. That is all I am saying.

yeah. And frankly its scary how much shit we've exported.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has pleaded for fighter jets for months, saying Russia's air supremacy has been a major stumbling block in his country's efforts to repel the invasion. In March, the U.S. and NATO scuttled Poland's proposal to send its Russian-built MiGs to Ukraine. White House national security spokesman John Kirby said at the time the proposal might be "mistaken as escalatory" and could provoke a Russian military confrontation with NATO.

© Monika Skolimowska, APCharles Quinton Brown Jr, U.S. general and chief of staff of the United States Air Force, smiles as his visits the Tactical Air Wing 73 'Steinhoff' in Laage, Germany, Monday, July, 11, 2022.
Brown said Wednesday that Russian MiGs won't be sent to Ukraine, saying with a laugh that it will "be tougher to get parts" from the Russians.
“It'll be something non-Russian," he said. "I could probably tell you that, but I can't tell you exactly what it's going to be."

MSN

www.msn.com

Excellent news if true.

Two words: FUCK NO!!!

 

[TNHarley]

Yeah we do. Unless we want another European war.

Thats what is going on now. A war. In Europe.

 

[bendog]

Thats what is going on now. A war. In Europe.

Ah, it's not a real war. But you can bet your farm that Putin wants to reacquire the baltics. And they look like nice places. I'm not sure I'll ever go back to Europe, though I'd like to get back while my wife's still healthy enough .. not for the baltics. More regular tourist type vistas.

 

[TNHarley]

Ah, it's not a real war. But you can bet your farm that Putin wants to reacquire the baltics. And they look like nice places. I'm not sure I'll ever go back to Europe, though I'd like to get back while my wife's still healthy enough .. not for the baltics. More regular tourist type vistas.

I hope you get to!

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Yeah we do. Unless we want another European war.

There are 44 countries in Europe each with their own military. They could have easily ended this in a matter of days if they had all sent their militaries in to assist. It is their continent, after all, not ours. If they aren't willing to step up and come to the defense of their neighbors then why the hell should we do it? If that does result in another war in Europe that's their fault for sitting on their hands and being weak instead of nipping it in the bud. Furthermore, what's the UN doing? Shouldn't they be at the helm of this?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I'm glad we visited Barcelona before Putin swept up Spain

 

[MisterBeale]

No, but like Lockheed Martin had trainers for the US Military, at least initially, they may be the trainers for HIMARS being supplied or sold to Ukraine. Contractors do all sorts of thing, regular US troops do not become involved in. These are very expensive systems. Factory reps often train on very expensive and complex systems in the civilian world as in the military world. It is good business.

In two months?



If someone gave me a new PC, with a brand new operating system, and it was all in Ukrainian, a language I don't read? I don't believe I could competently operate it to post on this forum in two months.

No matter how skilled the. . . "trainers," or "factory reps," were.

Maybe Ukrainians are somehow, superhuman geniuses, I guess. .. . . .

 

[ESay]

In two months?



If someone gave me a new PC, with a brand new operating system, and it was all in Ukrainian, a language I don't read? I don't believe I could competently operate it to post on this forum in two months.

No matter how skilled the. . . "trainers," or "factory reps," were.

Maybe Ukrainians are somehow, superhuman geniuses, I guess. .. . . .

It is much easier to find people in Ukraine who understand English, than to find people in the US who understand Ukrainian. I suppose.

 

[Cougarbear]

I thought you were smarter than that. That would be an act of war. Do you want to start WWIII?

Besides, Europe is weaning themselves off Russian oil and natural gas.

Trump did no such thing,

Oh? Then why was it just announced Russia has their pipeline going again to sell to Europe? Did you miss that? And, yes! Trump did keep Russia from using their pipeline and had Europe buying from the U.S. You are simply a denier that Trump had Putin bottled up after he bombed Russians inside Syria. So, no. I'm not worried about Russia and going to battle with them is what we would be doing if we continue to sell them war machines. Especially jet fighters. You Democrats are chickens.

 

[White 6]

In two months?



If someone gave me a new PC, with a brand new operating system, and it was all in Ukrainian, a language I don't read? I don't believe I could competently operate it to post on this forum in two months.

No matter how skilled the. . . "trainers," or "factory reps," were.

Maybe Ukrainians are somehow, superhuman geniuses, I guess. .. . . .

Off and on, you could say, I have been an ugly American in Europe. Not by intention, but just because I was not stationed there, or even confined in one country long enough to settle in and learn the languages. What amazed me was the number of people who spoke English as a second language. It is quite likely the manufacturer had trainer manuals in multiple languages, but even more likely it was not hard to find people that could read and speak English.