US may send fighter jets to Ukraine

[toomuchtime_]

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has pleaded for fighter jets for months, saying Russia's air supremacy has been a major stumbling block in his country's efforts to repel the invasion. In March, the U.S. and NATO scuttled Poland's proposal to send its Russian-built MiGs to Ukraine. White House national security spokesman John Kirby said at the time the proposal might be "mistaken as escalatory" and could provoke a Russian military confrontation with NATO.

© Monika Skolimowska, APCharles Quinton Brown Jr, U.S. general and chief of staff of the United States Air Force, smiles as his visits the Tactical Air Wing 73 'Steinhoff' in Laage, Germany, Monday, July, 11, 2022.
Brown said Wednesday that Russian MiGs won't be sent to Ukraine, saying with a laugh that it will "be tougher to get parts" from the Russians.
“It'll be something non-Russian," he said. "I could probably tell you that, but I can't tell you exactly what it's going to be."

MSN

www.msn.com

Excellent news if true.

 

[Cougarbear]

Why not kill the Russian pipeline to Europe, open our drills and pipelines again selling our oil to Europe causing Russia to not have the money to fight their wars! Like Trump was doing! The war would stop and no need to get more involved with a war that isn't necessary. Stupid Democrats haven't a clue on how the world works and are going to create a new world war. When it happens and nukes are destroying the world creating climate change and destruction, they are still going to pivot and blame Trump. Democrats need to be outlawed, not guns.

 

[bendog]

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has pleaded for fighter jets for months, saying Russia's air supremacy has been a major stumbling block in his country's efforts to repel the invasion. In March, the U.S. and NATO scuttled Poland's proposal to send its Russian-built MiGs to Ukraine. White House national security spokesman John Kirby said at the time the proposal might be "mistaken as escalatory" and could provoke a Russian military confrontation with NATO.

© Monika Skolimowska, APCharles Quinton Brown Jr, U.S. general and chief of staff of the United States Air Force, smiles as his visits the Tactical Air Wing 73 'Steinhoff' in Laage, Germany, Monday, July, 11, 2022.
Brown said Wednesday that Russian MiGs won't be sent to Ukraine, saying with a laugh that it will "be tougher to get parts" from the Russians.
“It'll be something non-Russian," he said. "I could probably tell you that, but I can't tell you exactly what it's going to be."

MSN

www.msn.com

Excellent news if true.

One of my criticisms of Biden is he didn't give Ukraine what they needed to expell Russia and end this thing, after Russia's attack fizzled.

I'm not sure how you teach Ukranian pilots to transition into F-16s or something older and less useful for offense with a war going on, though

 

[White 6]

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has pleaded for fighter jets for months, saying Russia's air supremacy has been a major stumbling block in his country's efforts to repel the invasion. In March, the U.S. and NATO scuttled Poland's proposal to send its Russian-built MiGs to Ukraine. White House national security spokesman John Kirby said at the time the proposal might be "mistaken as escalatory" and could provoke a Russian military confrontation with NATO.

© Monika Skolimowska, APCharles Quinton Brown Jr, U.S. general and chief of staff of the United States Air Force, smiles as his visits the Tactical Air Wing 73 'Steinhoff' in Laage, Germany, Monday, July, 11, 2022.
Brown said Wednesday that Russian MiGs won't be sent to Ukraine, saying with a laugh that it will "be tougher to get parts" from the Russians.
“It'll be something non-Russian," he said. "I could probably tell you that, but I can't tell you exactly what it's going to be."

MSN

www.msn.com

Excellent news if true.

It does not say we are sending any, but know if it comes about, it would not be intelligent to send planes, dependent on Russian supply chain logistics. It does not look like Ukraine is giving up trying to protect themselves from the invading bastards, and this could be a long term thing. That is what makes sending Russian design and built planes laughable to the General. It might be tactically simple, but logistically stupid, and make no mistake, logistics often are more important in the long run.

 

[TNHarley]

Scary we are fighting a proxy war with russia with a senile pants shitter as CiC.
We need to stay the fuck out of it, to begin with.
You fuckin war mongers LOVE to use the fruits of my labor to kill people. Fuck off.

 

[Concerned American]

Why not kill the Russian pipeline to Europe, open our drills and pipelines again selling our oil to Europe causing Russia to not have the money to fight their wars! Like Trump was doing! The war would stop and no need to get more involved with a war that isn't necessary. Stupid Democrats haven't a clue on how the world works and are going to create a new world war. When it happens and nukes are destroying the world creating climate change and destruction, they are still going to pivot and blame Trump. Democrats need to be outlawed, not guns.

That wouldn't fit with the democrat goal though. Their goal is the dismantling of America. Leaving our military hardware in Afghanistan, Sending billions and more military hardware to a country which is not our ally, cutting the military, deflating the value of the currency, illegal immigration, energy dependency and on and on and on. Democrats are NOT Americans.

 

[ESay]

I'm not sure how you teach Ukranian pilots to transition into F-16s or something older and less useful for offense with a war going on, though

There were reports that a small group of Ukrainian pilots are already in the US for some training. Also, training of Ukrainian pilots is expected to be included in the 2023 US defence budget.

 

[MisterBeale]

I have seen in the western media, much boasting about how Russian air defenses have "failed," to shoot down HIMARS missiles, while, at the same time, bragging how these new systems, operated by western mercenaries, (read, US servicemen,) are making a large impact on the war.

IOW? I suspect, it is only a matter of time before the Russian central command gives the order to unleash the full force of the Russian air-force, and strike those systems directly?

This is, in my estimation, a dangerous escalation, which will lead to American deaths.

So? Naturally Washington wants NATO air forces to defend them.

MSN

www.msn.com

"One should not be afraid [of HIMARS], one should fight it. It is not a panacea, it is one of the weapons that the enemy uses now," Andrei Kartapolov, head of Russia's State Duma Defense Committee, told TASS on Thursday. "At the same time I want to emphasize that it is foreign specialists, that is to say, mercenaries, who steer it at a target. I don't rule out American servicemen working there."

"The system is serious, but there is a countermeasure—our air defense facilities," the legislator added, claiming that on Wednesday, Russia's air defense shot down 12 missiles over the Antonivka Road Bridge, also known as the Antonovsky Bridge, in Ukraine's southern Kherson region, which is currently occupied by Russian forces.. . . "

HIMARS and howitzers: West helps Ukraine with key weaponry

The deliveries of Western arms have been crucial for Ukraine’s efforts to fend off Russian attacks in the nearly five-month-old war.

apnews.com

Video Shows Russia Failing To Shoot Down U.S. HIMARS Missiles, Ukraine Says

The U.S. supplied weapons are having a big impact on Ukraine's war effort against the Russians.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Cougarbear]

That wouldn't fit with the democrat goal though. Their goal is the dismantling of America. Leaving our military hardware in Afghanistan, Sending billions and more military hardware to a country which is not our ally, cutting the military, deflating the value of the currency, illegal immigration, energy dependency and on and on and on. Democrats are NOT Americans.

That's why Democrats need to be outlawed, They are traitors. And, those that aren't are leaving that party.

 

[Concerned American]

It does not say we are sending any, but know if it comes about, it would not be intelligent to send planes, dependent on Russian supply chain logistics. It does not look like Ukraine is giving up trying to protect themselves from the invading bastards, and this could be a long term thing. That is what makes sending Russian design and built planes laughable to the General. It might be tactically simple, but logistically stupid, and make no mistake, logistics often are more important in the long run.

It is not an American war. Ukraine has no mutual defense treaties with us. We should stay out of it. Russia is attacking Ukraine and Georgia and Chechnya may well see this as an opportunity to engage Russia on a second or possibly third front to gain their independence. Let them fight their own wars. We should quit decimating our military and continue to exercise our technological dominance. Quite the opposite of what the current regime is doing.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Why not kill the Russian pipeline to Europe, open our drills and pipelines again selling our oil to Europe causing Russia to not have the money to fight their wars! Like Trump was doing! The war would stop and no need to get more involved with a war that isn't necessary. Stupid Democrats haven't a clue on how the world works and are going to create a new world war. When it happens and nukes are destroying the world creating climate change and destruction, they are still going to pivot and blame Trump. Democrats need to be outlawed, not guns.

What do you mean "kill"?

 

[Cougarbear]

What do you mean "kill"?

Blow it up. If we are going to give Ukraine jets, why not? Actually, just do what Trump had done to stop Russia from using the pipeline and sell to Europe.

 

[bendog]

Scary we are fighting a proxy war with russia with a senile pants shitter as CiC.
We need to stay the fuck out of it, to begin with.
You fuckin war mongers LOVE to use the fruits of my labor to kill people. Fuck off.

Well I was against both Desert Wars, Afghan (as an occupation), Syria and Libya (unless it meant Nato was going to be the boots)

But Putin's a different cat. This is not about neocons, this is about regular old cold war warriors. But we need to end it.

 

[White 6]

It is not an American war. Ukraine has no mutual defense treaties with us. We should stay out of it. Russia is attacking Ukraine and Georgia and Chechnya may well see this as an opportunity to engage Russia on a second or possibly third front to gain their independence. Let them fight their own wars. We should quit decimating our military and continue to exercise our technological dominance. Quite the opposite of what the current regime is doing.

We are out of it. We have no troops on the ground or in the airspace above that country.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Blow it up. If we are going to give Ukraine jets, why not? Actually, just do what Trump had done to stop Russia from using the pipeline and sell to Europe.

I thought you were smarter than that. That would be an act of war. Do you want to start WWIII?

Besides, Europe is weaning themselves off Russian oil and natural gas.

Trump did no such thing,

 

[Donald H]

That wouldn't fit with the democrat goal though. Their goal is the dismantling of America. Leaving our military hardware in Afghanistan, Sending billions and more military hardware to a country which is not our ally,

Both you and Harley are shining some long awaited light on this war that is America against Russia.
I think that the domestic political cause that is mentioned by both of you could cause the dam to burst.

Once the conservative side starts to air the facts due to fear of the ultimate war, the condidence propaganda being manufactured by the Pentagon can't survive long.

Supposedly Russia is winning the war and has even expanded their endgame. But America isn't ever going to agree to a loss.

This war between two superpowers has to be the final war that must be settled off the battlefield.

Thanks for that!

 

[MisterBeale]

We are out of it. We have no troops on the ground or in the airspace above that country.

Do you REALLY believe the instructions for this piece of equipment, are written in Russian or Ukrainian?

Or that the Ukrainian armed services has enough folks that speak English, and trained to operate them?

HIMARS

The HIMARS rocket launcher is a flexible, affordable and highly effective precision fires system designed to meet the demands of the modern battlefield.

lockheedmartin.com

 

[Donald H]

We are out of it. We have no troops on the ground or in the airspace above that country.

Come on White, you're too smart for that any longer. And everybody knows what America's involvement is now.

Save for disagreement on the number of Americans in the Ukraine fighting hands-on.
A couple of dozen or thousands?

 

[bendog]

It does not say we are sending any, but know if it comes about, it would not be intelligent to send planes, dependent on Russian supply chain logistics. It does not look like Ukraine is giving up trying to protect themselves from the invading bastards, and this could be a long term thing. That is what makes sending Russian design and built planes laughable to the General. It might be tactically simple, but logistically stupid, and make no mistake, logistics often are more important in the long run.

I agree it seems like we are settling for a longer term supplying planes to Ukraine. I admit I thought we were in this for a long haul because the only deal one can make with Putin is make it suicidal for him to attack. He wants to expand Russia's borders and his word means nothing, and I've always thought the maj of Russians want to reconquer their former empire that dated back to Catherine the Great.

And I'm not under any illusion as to the US's history in Iraq (or Iran), or the Saudis complicity in 9-11. We started up fucking up in the middle east when Truman recognized Israel, and it's not gotten better. Israel can more than protect itself, and we continue to meddle between the shia and sunni who hate each other for no logical reason

 

[toomuchtime_]

One of my criticisms of Biden is he didn't give Ukraine what they needed to expell Russia and end this thing, after Russia's attack fizzled.

I'm not sure how you teach Ukranian pilots to transition into F-16s or something older and less useful for offense with a war going on, though

It sounds cold blooded but I think the US sees the battlefield and the sanctions as part of the same strategy, so the goal has not been to drive the Russians out of Ukraine with military force but to hold the ground in Ukraine while the sanctions weaken the Russian economy which will weaken Russia's ability to make war and make defeat seem inevitable to Russia.

The Ukrainian pilots already know how to fly fighters so I'm guessing they just need to become familiar with the controls and capabilities of the new planes so perhaps that won't take too long.