US Army’s Recruiting Crisis Worsens As Test Scores Drop, Disqualifications Rates Surge

[rightwinger]

It's a good question ... were the Founders "liberals" or "conservatives"? The answer is, neither. At the time, modern liberal/conservative distinction didn't exist.

They were close to being 'Whigs', not 'Tories', the main distinction then. Both of those
tendencies were, in modern terms, very conservative. But it would be less than honest for modern conservatives to claim that they were just the conservatives of their time.

But it is interesting that one of the Founding Fathers of conservatism, Edmund Burke, was a friend of America, even though he opposed independence.

As for whether people on the Left "love America". Well, when they're debating the Right they do, or make a show of doing. But it's not really true, in other than very cool, abstract sense for some of them, and not even that for many.

But here's a test. The New York City Council, a few years ago, voted to honor the executed Soviet spy, Ethel Rosenberg. These aren't some fringe crazies, like the Bezerkely City Council. I'd say they're pretty representative of mainstream liberalism.

Here are links to that story, because I know it sounds like rightwing fantasy.
"Honoring a Soviet spy, whose work gave Stalin the atom bomb and other military technology? Ridiculous. Liberals would never do that!!!!":

[ The City Council’s ‘heroes’ from hell ]
[ City Council honors Ethel Rosenberg for ‘great bravery’ ]
[ ‘60 Minutes’ pushing Ethel Rosenberg pardon — don’t buy it ]

Do you think these liberals on the New York City Council 'love their country'?
(Note to others reading this: Stalin supposedly said, "Paper will take anything written on it.") So will computer screens.

Anyway, what do you think about what the New York City Council did?

Jesus was a Liberal

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I'm a veteran, I've done more for this country than you ever will.

Nothing that you could possibly have done in your claimed eleven years as a REMF, can make up for the intense hatred that you have shown since then for this country and its founding principles, and the willfully destructive polices that you have consistently supported.

 

[Mushroom]

No, she was rightfully executed for spying on behalf of the Soviet Union, for providing them with sensitive military technology that enable them to more quickly develop similar technology for their own military.

There was plenty of evidence of her guilt, made public, at the time of her trial, and a huge amount more that was declassified in the 1990s and beyond, after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Hell, many seem to forget that there were 4 major participants of that ring.

The opening of the Soviet Archives showed they were spies for the Soviets.

Morton Sobell (convicted and spent 17 years in jail) in 2008 admitted they were spies for the Soviet Union.

Ethel's brother David Greenglass provided testimony during the trial to his involvement as well as his sister for a lesser sentence.

They were identified in VENONA intercepts. These have been proven to be authentic after they were compared to copies in the KGB archives, and named Ethel, Julius, Greenglass, Greenglass' wife, Sobell, and others.

And the investigation that led to them was rather clear. In 1949 Klaus Fuchs was identified through VENONA intercepts as a Soviet spy and arrested. He gave up a lot of information on Soviet rings in the US before he was convicted. Upon release he went to East Germany, and was honored with many high Soviet awards for the ring he led.

His testimony led the US to Harry Gold, another Soviet spy. He also admitted his guilt and was convicted and sentenced to jail. He was the main witness in the Rosenberg trial.

Only an idiot would dismiss the mountains of evidence against them. Even more so as the KGB archives as well as clear statements both from Joseph Stalin and Nikita Khrushchev clearly stated they were spies, and their spying efforts were of critical importance in the Soviet atomic program.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Only an idiot would dismiss the mountains of evidence against them [the Rosenbergs].

Or a wannabe traitor.

 

[Doug1943]

Jesus was a Liberal

No, he wasn't. He was a conservative Republican!

 

[rightwinger]

No, he wasn't. He was a conservative Republican!

Yes…Feeding the poor and healing the sick

 

[Doug1943]

You are seriously claiming there were no hippies involved in the civil rights movement?

Well, first, I don't give out my personal information to ANYONE on the internet.. that would be stupid.

Secondly, I've already proven you are just making shit up

No you haven't proved anything. What a nasty little liar you are! Where's the proof? And it would be easy for you to keep your identity secret from anyone except the three people we both agree on. What is your fear .. are you on a Paedophile list or something? How pathetic.
You won't do it because you know I can easily prove what I said. Coward.

As for "hippies in the civil rights movement". No, the hippies "turned on, tuned in, and dropped out". They had, of course, anti-racist attitudes. But they didn't "go South". They went to Haight-Ashbury and got high. The word didn't even come into popular use until around 1967, by which time the Black struggle in the South, having won the Civil Rights Act, turned to politics, as in the Mississippi Freedom Democrats.

They just weren't very political, although some hippy ""leaders" -- a contradiction in terms -- were active in the anti-war movement. When I was hiding from the FBI, I lived among some hippies in Bezerkely. It was very frustrating, because although they were intelligent people -- the group I knew well were all U of Penn. graduates -- they couldn't be bothered to go to demonstrations.

And it was also generational. I organized a group of young Socialists in Houston in the early 60s, one of whom was the son of two local CP members (or maybe dues cheaters). We disagreed about Russia, etc but we were both Marxists, materialists. I went off to college, and one summer in the mid-60s came back and was visiting my friend. He was still political -- in fact, he did time in prison for 'imitating a soldier' when he wore uniform during an anti-war guerilla theatre skit, although he won the case, finally, at the Supreme Court. While I was visiting, his younger brother walked in .. he was about 16. And ... he was a hippy! Long hair, love beads... ugh! Totally uninterested in politics. I ran into him in California a few years later ... a total transformation. He had shaved off the long hair, was wearing a suit, and was in medical school! Why the transformation? He had become a born-again Christian! Well, at the time I reluctantly concluded that maybe religion could do some good things. Wrong. Or wrong in this case. The group that converted him was Jim Jones Peoples Temple. And a few years later, in Jonestown, he was the doctor who mixed up the cyanide and killed 900 people, and himself.

Anyway, it's a shame you're not an honest person. You present the leftist case here very well, very intelligently. I would love to engage you in argument, as I do with other leftists. But you're not honest. You don't argue in good faith. There are people like you across the spectrum, it's not a political thing. When I was young, I would say, "This is the result of capitalism, which...blah blah blah." But I suspect people like you existed from the dawn of time and always will.

And by the way, the photo you presented, the 'Student Mobilization Committee' banner: those people aren't "hippies". No one at the time would have called them that. They were probably members of the Young Socialist Alliance, youth group of the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party (still around today), which controlled the Student Mobe almost entirely. They didn't even look like hippies. They (along with members of Progressive Labor, a Maoist-in-origin group) provoked derision and amusement from the rest of the young Left, because they were always clean-cut, looking like Young Republicans. (They -- both groups -- actually wanted to reach the majority of Americans and didn't want their appearance to be a barrier to that. Smart people.)

You see, I was there and you weren't.

 

[Doug1943]

Yes…Feeding the poor and healing the sick

In order to evangelize them! Jesus believed strongly in the pure free market. He was a rightwing Republican! He didn't agitate for the Romans to initiate socialized medicine!

 

[JoeB131]

Nothing that you could possibly have done in your claimed eleven years as a REMF, can make up for the intense hatred that you have shown since then for this country and its founding principles, and the willfully destructive polices that you have consistently supported.

I don't mistake the crazy right wingers for "My Country".

As for Founding Principles, I love what America has become because it became MORE inclusive, thanks to the efforts of forward thinking men LIncoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, JFK, LBJ, MLK, and Obama.

What has been destructive is dumb asses like you supporting the reversing of progress made because of your racial and sexual fears.

The ironic thing being, your new Evangelical Buddies probably hate Mormons just as much as they hate Gays. Maybe more so.

 

[Mushroom]

Yes…Feeding the poor and healing the sick

Also a fundamentalist, who fought against anything that he thought was against the traditions of his culture or religion.

 

[JoeB131]

No you haven't proved anything. What a nasty little liar you are! Where's the proof? And it would be easy for you to keep your identity secret from anyone except the three people we both agree on. What is your fear .. are you on a Paedophile list or something? How pathetic.

Ooops, you just got reported again. Too bad, it'll probably get the thread closed.

I don't put personal information out there. Simply put, too many crazy stalkers on this board, and a lot of them have guns. The last thing I want is you showing up outside my house one day...

As for "hippies in the civil rights movement". No, the hippies "turned on, tuned in, and dropped out". They had, of course, anti-racist attitudes. But they didn't "go South". They went to Haight-Ashbury and got high. The word didn't even come into popular use until around 1967, by which time the Black struggle in the South, having won the Civil Rights Act, turned to politics, as in the Mississippi Freedom Democrats.

They also joined radical groups like the Black Panthers, the Weather Underground, etc. In fact, the anti-war movement and the civil rights movement found they had a LOT of common ground. If you were there, you'd know this. I missed it by about a decade, but it was still fresh in everyone's mind.

Anyway, it's a shame you're not an honest person. You present the leftist case here very well, very intelligently. I would love to engage you in argument, as I do with other leftists. But you're not honest. You don't argue in good faith. There are people like you across the spectrum, it's not a political thing. When I was young, I would say, "This is the result of capitalism, which...blah blah blah." But I suspect people like you existed from the dawn of time and always will.

The problem is, you've created this online persona that I simply don't believe, and you are completely upset that I'm not taking your trolling at face value.

You see, I was there and you weren't.

No, you weren't. It's pretty obvious by how many things you get plain wrong.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Ooops, you just got reported again.

 

[Doug1943]

Ooops, you just got reported again. Too bad, it'll probably get the thread closed.

I don't put personal information out there. Simply put, too many crazy stalkers on this board, and a lot of them have guns. The last thing I want is you showing up outside my house one day...



They also joined radical groups like the Black Panthers, the Weather Underground, etc. In fact, the anti-war movement and the civil rights movement found they had a LOT of common ground. If you were there, you'd know this. I missed it by about a decade, but it was still fresh in everyone's mind.



The problem is, you've created this online persona that I simply don't believe, and you are completely upset that I'm not taking your trolling at face value.


No, you weren't. It's pretty obvious by how many things you get plain wrong.

What a coward you are! You call me a liar, a fake hippy, and when I expose you for the conscienceless liar that you are, you try to get the thread closed. I hope the moderators catch on to you. (Not literally, of course, as then they'd need to scrub their hands with lye.)

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I don't put personal information out there. Simply put, too many crazy stalkers on this board, and a lot of them have guns. The last thing I want is you showing up outside my house one day...

That's your own narcissism, speaking.

Assuming there is anyone on this forum who has the nature of a potentially violent stalker, it is certainly the case that nobody would consider you worth the trouble.

I can think of very few users on this forum who have the necessary ethical deficiency to do such a thing, other than yourself, and I think that it is obvious to everyone that you're too much of a cowardly pussy to do any such thing anyway, even if you do lack the ethical constraints against such behavior.

 

[Doug1943]

That's your own narcissism, speaking.

Assuming there is anyone on this forum who has the nature of a potentially violent stalker, it is certainly the case that nobody would consider you worth the trouble.

I can think of very few users on this forum who have the necessary ethical deficiency to do such a thing, other than yourself, and I think that it is obvious to everyone that you're too much of a cowardly pussy to do any such thing anyway, even if you do lack the ethical constraints against such behavior.

The sad thing is, this guy is actually one of the best spokesmen the Leftists have. He makes real arguments, often backs them up with facts. We would all learn something from serious debates with him. But how can you debate a man who deliberately says "You are a liar", knowing that what he is saying is not true?

It's quite legitmate to not want to reveal your personal identity on line. Most of the "doxxing" I know about has been carried out by AntiFa types against their enemies (some of whom are genuine fascists, others just conservatives), but I suppose it could go the other way. (When I was a kid, in the times and town I grew up in, if you wrote a letter to the editor supporing school integration, a local group of people -- we always suspected it was the DAR, Daughters of the American Revolution -- would get your phone number ... and you'd start getting nasty phone calls, starting around midnight, every fifteen mintues or so. They had it organized.)

But it would be easy to arrange three trustworthy people that he and I could safely reveal our identities to, and a lawyer to hold our money (I've offered him $10 000 if three people we both trust think I'm lying about my past in the Civil Rights movement). They could all be Leftists -- there are plenty of honest people in the Left. Of course he knows he'd lose his money, since he would have to put up an equal amount.

It's just moral cowardice, which goes along with deep narcissism and personal dishonesty.

 

[JoeB131]

What a coward you are! You call me a liar, a fake hippy, and when I expose you for the conscienceless liar that you are, you try to get the thread closed. I hope the moderators catch on to you. (Not literally, of course, as then they'd need to scrub their hands with lye.)

Um, no, you actually violated the board rules. I didn't get around to reporting you last night, but I will today.

 

[JoeB131]

That's your own narcissism, speaking.

Assuming there is anyone on this forum who has the nature of a potentially violent stalker, it is certainly the case that nobody would consider you worth the trouble.

I can think of very few users on this forum who have the necessary ethical deficiency to do such a thing, other than yourself, and I think that it is obvious to everyone that you're too much of a cowardly pussy to do any such thing anyway, even if you do lack the ethical constraints against such behavior.

Uh, Bob, you are the kind of stalker I am talking about.

You get up at 3 AM your time to scream at me... you obsess about my Chinese girlfriend and my sex life... you spend hours finding every post I make so you can down vote it.

I'd be horrified what you'd do if you knew my real name and where I actually lived...

 

[Hollie]

Um, no, you actually violated the board rules. I didn't get around to reporting you last night, but I will today.

Be sure to cc Nina Jankowicz.

 

[JoeB131]

The sad thing is, this guy is actually one of the best spokesmen the Leftists have. He makes real arguments, often backs them up with facts. We would all learn something from serious debates with him. But how can you debate a man who deliberately says "You are a liar", knowing that what he is saying is not true?

Because I don't believe you. I simply can't believe that someone who claims he was around for the Civil Rights Movement is now peeing himself over BLM. BLM is a picnic compared to the race riots we had in the 1960's. I also find it hard to believe someone who would have to be in their 80's can put together so much coherent trolling like you do.

It's quite legitmate to not want to reveal your personal identity on line. Most of the "doxxing" I know about has been carried out by AntiFa types against their enemies (some of whom are genuine fascists, others just conservatives), but I suppose it could go the other way. (When I was a kid, in the times and town I grew up in, if you wrote a letter to the editor supporing school integration, a local group of people -- we always suspected it was the DAR, Daughters of the American Revolution -- would get your phone number ... and you'd start getting nasty phone calls, starting around midnight, every fifteen mintues or so. They had it organized.)

Um, actually, I have been Doxxed on this board, someone tracked down my Twitter account once and linked to it. So it is actually a legitimate concern.

But it would be easy to arrange three trustworthy people that he and I could safely reveal our identities to, and a lawyer to hold our money (I've offered him $10 000 if three people we both trust think I'm lying about my past in the Civil Rights movement). They could all be Leftists -- there are plenty of honest people in the Left. Of course he knows he'd lose his money, since he would have to put up an equal amount.

There aren't three people on this board I trust. The very fact that you are giving Mormon Bob a run for his money for obsession is kind of telling.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Uh, Bob, you are the kind of stalker I am talking about.
You get up at 3 AM your time to scream at me... you obsess about my Chinese girlfriend and my sex life... you spend hours finding every post I make so you can down vote it.
I'd be horrified what you'd do if you knew my real name and where I actually lived...

Says the guy who gets up in the middle of the night to rant about me.
Bob, I know I am living in your head, but your obsession is getting... weird.

Again, that's your own narcissism and paranoia, and greatly exaggerated sense of your own importance, speaking.