Union Boss salaries- They have a lot in common with the people they represent

[The T]

No comparison

CEO's earn a portion of his salary for building a company that returns wealth to its employees and shareholders, in the millions

What does the high salary of union bosses do
except show their hypocrisy

Horseshit. They get the big ticket salaries when their companies Lose money.

Not even a nice try, to compare six figure salaries of union bosses to 8 figure salaries of CEO's.

Again, in Japan, the UK, Germany, this sort of insanity doesn't happen.

So Centralized control by Government is the answer?

 

[Neotrotsky]

No comparison

CEO's earn a portion of his salary for building a company that returns wealth to its employees and shareholders, in the millions

What does the high salary of union bosses do
except show their hypocrisy

Horseshit. They get the big ticket salaries when their companies Lose money.

Not even a nice try, to compare six figure salaries of union bosses to 8 figure salaries of CEO's.

Again, in Japan, the UK, Germany, this sort of insanity doesn't happen.

Indeed

Just like the Union bosses always seem to end up nice
even when a factory closes


But wait, they are "for" the working man
so that is ok

 

[The T]

No comparison

CEO's earn a portion of his salary for building a company that returns wealth to its employees and shareholders, in the millions

What does the high salary of union bosses do
except show their hypocrisy

Horseshit. They get the big ticket salaries when their companies Lose money.

Not even a nice try, to compare six figure salaries of union bosses to 8 figure salaries of CEO's.

Again, in Japan, the UK, Germany, this sort of insanity doesn't happen.

Indeed

Just like the Union bosses always seem to end up nice
even when a factory closes


But wait, they are "for" the working man
so that is ok

And isn't it odd? The Union 'Bosses' remain in thier cushy digs as those that paid the dues to pay them can't pay any longer when they lose thier jobs?

A Microcosm of something?

 

[Gadawg73]

Joe bad mouths the "evil capitalist" and yet has his hand out to take their $$$.
If they are so evil why not fund your own company Joe?
A function of extortion, threats and ignorance.
They do not know how to start and run any form of business.

 

[Gadawg73]

I like to hire FORMER union workers here. They know first hand how the unions fucked them and how all they cared about was the union and not the future of the company.
They all tell me this. Every one of them. The big ***** they had as union members was the job description rule. They wanted to work over time and go down a notch in job description to do something else when another worker was sick or off. BANNED from doing that as the union rules are they had to be paid what their existing job is no matter what.
Unions are fucked up. They once worked long before the union bosses and their union shop states where union membership is required just to work.

 

[Old Rocks]

I like to hire FORMER union workers here. They know first hand how the unions fucked them and how all they cared about was the union and not the future of the company.
They all tell me this. Every one of them. The big ***** they had as union members was the job description rule. They wanted to work over time and go down a notch in job description to do something else when another worker was sick or off. BANNED from doing that as the union rules are they had to be paid what their existing job is no matter what.
Unions are fucked up. They once worked long before the union bosses and their union shop states where union membership is required just to work.

I have worked in industry for 50 years. Mostly for non-union companies. Those that actually paid more than the union shops.

However, I have seen many of those companies unionized. Why? New management that decided that, since the workers had no union, they could do whatever they wanted with benefits and wages. Without any consultation with the workers involved.

It has been my experiance that the greatest creator of union shops is management.

 

[The T]

Joe bad mouths the "evil capitalist" and yet has his hand out to take their $$$.
If they are so evil why not fund your own company Joe?
A function of extortion, threats and ignorance.
They do not know how to start and run any form of business.

So Does Obama...and every swingin' dick in Government.

 

[Gadawg73]

I like to hire FORMER union workers here. They know first hand how the unions fucked them and how all they cared about was the union and not the future of the company.
They all tell me this. Every one of them. The big ***** they had as union members was the job description rule. They wanted to work over time and go down a notch in job description to do something else when another worker was sick or off. BANNED from doing that as the union rules are they had to be paid what their existing job is no matter what.
Unions are fucked up. They once worked long before the union bosses and their union shop states where union membership is required just to work.

I have worked in industry for 50 years. Mostly for non-union companies. Those that actually paid more than the union shops.

However, I have seen many of those companies unionized. Why? New management that decided that, since the workers had no union, they could do whatever they wanted with benefits and wages. Without any consultation with the workers involved.

It has been my experiance that the greatest creator of union shops is management.

Bad management. I fully agree. Good point.
But management is not always a reflection of the capital that pays the freight of all the workers. The capital comes from the shareholders which in most instances are the middle class workers and investors.
Do away with incentives for investors to provide their capital, the investors, and the company is forced to close.
Or negotiate a wage for the workers that is 40% more than your competititon and guess what happens?
The market, not the union, should set the wage. If a man with the equivalent of a 5th grade education can do the work for $15 and hour and the union demands a "living wage" for that 5th grade education job at $25 an hour with wages and benefits how can a company not only stay in business but expand with investment dollars?

 

[Old Rocks]

I like to hire FORMER union workers here. They know first hand how the unions fucked them and how all they cared about was the union and not the future of the company.
They all tell me this. Every one of them. The big ***** they had as union members was the job description rule. They wanted to work over time and go down a notch in job description to do something else when another worker was sick or off. BANNED from doing that as the union rules are they had to be paid what their existing job is no matter what.
Unions are fucked up. They once worked long before the union bosses and their union shop states where union membership is required just to work.

I have worked in industry for 50 years. Mostly for non-union companies. Those that actually paid more than the union shops.

However, I have seen many of those companies unionized. Why? New management that decided that, since the workers had no union, they could do whatever they wanted with benefits and wages. Without any consultation with the workers involved.

It has been my experiance that the greatest creator of union shops is management.

Bad management. I fully agree. Good point.
But management is not always a reflection of the capital that pays the freight of all the workers. The capital comes from the shareholders which in most instances are the middle class workers and investors.
Do away with incentives for investors to provide their capital, the investors, and the company is forced to close.
Or negotiate a wage for the workers that is 40% more than your competititon and guess what happens?
The market, not the union, should set the wage. If a man with the equivalent of a 5th grade education can do the work for $15 and hour and the union demands a "living wage" for that 5th grade education job at $25 an hour with wages and benefits how can a company not only stay in business but expand with investment dollars?

The places that I have worked at in the last 20 years would not hire someone with a fifth grade education. And even those with a high school education are expected to upgrade that education. The dumb jobs are done with machines now in most industries. The machine operators now do more than just pull levers and puch bottons. They are expected to ride watch on two to four computer screens, and several camera screens. If there is a problem, they are expected to bring up various screens on each of the computers that give them information and work with the millwrights, electricians, and automation on solving the problem.

In the crafts, one is expected to constantly upgrade their education. Most of the machinery and systems that I work with now did not exist when I started in industry. However, in real terms, the only way that I have increased my income is to simply move on when the company I worked for decided that wages need not keep up with prices, for whatever reason.

 

[Foxfyre]

The fact is, labor is a commodity to sell just as any other component that goes into commerce and industry. Labor is worth only as much as it can produce a profit for the employer. And unless it is designed to fit the needs of a particular business , labor will be unharmonious and less beneficial, even unprofitable.

As I have previously posted, I have worked in businesses in which the union and management worked together to achieve that best fit. Here the union was a good thing and beneficial in choosing a benefit package that the business could handle and establish wage scales for various jobs and shifts so that this did not have to be individually negotiated with every employee in a large work force.

But when the union demands a less than good fit between labor and management such as dogmatically demanding that only certain designated employees were allowed to do certain jobs, multi tasking is disallowed, etc. and/or when wages and benefits are so out of line that the business cannot turn a profit, then unions are not beneficial and in fact are detrimental.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Joe bad mouths the "evil capitalist" and yet has his hand out to take their $$$.
If they are so evil why not fund your own company Joe?
A function of extortion, threats and ignorance.
They do not know how to start and run any form of business.

Indeed

Well he is just following Papa Obama's example
But it is ok because they say
"We are for the working people"
Like all politicians- full of crap

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHOimxPUwSc]Obama's Wall Street - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JoeB131]

By your logic, anyone you'd hire would be a potential threat, because anyone would kill you if they thought you were endangering his family.

No, you've got the logic wrong. There's a difference between random violence and violence against being fired because you think something that is yours is being taken away from you. I won't hire someone whom I think might inflict violence on me and my family if I have to let them go. I view that person as unreasonable and unstable. Most people don't think it is OK to seek violent retribution against a business owner, let alone against his wife and kids, for letting them go, like you do. If they did, you would see many more examples of fired workers killing their bosses. Most Americans don't have your union mentality that the world owes them a living.

That's the problem, isn't it.

Maybe you should read up on the history of the union movement. That's EXACTLY what it did. And it needed to.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe bad mouths the "evil capitalist" and yet has his hand out to take their $$$.
If they are so evil why not fund your own company Joe?
A function of extortion, threats and ignorance.
They do not know how to start and run any form of business.

Or we just get rid of capitalists altogether..

The Captialist is a parasite who tries to convince you he's a vital organ.

And the private investigators who work for them are parasites on parasites.

 

[The T]

The fact is, labor is a commodity to sell just as any other component that goes into commerce and industry. Labor is worth only as much as it can produce a profit for the employer. And unless it is designed to fit the needs of a particular business , labor will be unharmonious and less beneficial, even unprofitable.

As I have previously posted, I have worked in businesses in which the union and management worked together to achieve that best fit. Here the union was a good thing and beneficial in choosing a benefit package that the business could handle and establish wage scales for various jobs and shifts so that this did not have to be individually negotiated with every employee in a large work force.

But when the union demands a less than good fit between labor and management such as dogmatically demanding that only certain designated employees were allowed to do certain jobs, multi tasking is disallowed, etc. and/or when wages and benefits are so out of line that the business cannot turn a profit, then unions are not beneficial and in fact are detrimental.

Without labor...you have no commerce. But when labor portends to overstate thier importance at the detriment of the enterprise they are employed to the point of bringing that enterprise down permanently?

Labor has lost it's way, it's moral compass.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Joe bad mouths the "evil capitalist" and yet has his hand out to take their $$$.
If they are so evil why not fund your own company Joe?
A function of extortion, threats and ignorance.
They do not know how to start and run any form of business.

Or we just get rid of capitalists altogether..

The Captialist is a parasite who tries to convince you he's a vital organ.

And the private investigators who work for them are parasites on parasites.

No doubt you are a "centrist"
like Papa Obama


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPKH4GHiihg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPKH4GHiihg[/ame]

 

[Foxfyre]

Joe bad mouths the "evil capitalist" and yet has his hand out to take their $$$.
If they are so evil why not fund your own company Joe?
A function of extortion, threats and ignorance.
They do not know how to start and run any form of business.

Or we just get rid of capitalists altogether..

The Captialist is a parasite who tries to convince you he's a vital organ.

And the private investigators who work for them are parasites on parasites.

Oh yeah. That worked so well for Lenin and Chairman Mao and every other country that did away with the capitalists. And it was by the efforts of organized labor that put such men into power resulting in loss of freedom for all, extreme hardship for everybody, and the deaths of tens of millions of innocent people.

Be careful what you wish for my friend.

 

[Neotrotsky]

The Left will get it right



this time.....

 

[Foxfyre]

The Left will get it right



this time.....

There has never been a government in the history of the world that has put the people's interests ahead of those who hold the power in government. Or in which government power has not cme at the expense of liberty and opportunity for the people.

Perhaps Capitalists only look to their own interests as well, but in so doing provide means for others to look to their interests.

And when Union Bosses are interested only in the enrichment and empowerment of the Union bosses, capitalism takes a back seat and eventually all will be less well off. Except of course for the Union Bosses and those in government who empower them. They can take the money and run.

 

[Neotrotsky]

The Left is showing their true colours
day by day
----------------------------
Reminds me of an old post

Comrades
the "the jig is up"; the "party is over"
We have reached that place that Margaret Thatcher spoke of :

"The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."


What tools do we have left?
- interest are low as they can go to go any good
- we can't tax anyone enough without crashing the economy
- how much can we debt spend since we are broke
- we can't not allow true reforms to entitlements which limit the state's role


I know, we will continue our attacks on S&P and
we must because S&P dares to threaten our Progressive Utopia; but this will not help us in the long run.

What are we to do?

I for one comrade am ready to take the next step
Total capitulation of all the factors of production over to the gov't

It is the only answer and it is what we really want in the long run
anyway

Why wait? Now is the time ! Be brave Papa Obama
End this misery called Capitalism​

 

[JoeB131]

Joe bad mouths the "evil capitalist" and yet has his hand out to take their $$$.
If they are so evil why not fund your own company Joe?
A function of extortion, threats and ignorance.
They do not know how to start and run any form of business.

Or we just get rid of capitalists altogether..

The Captialist is a parasite who tries to convince you he's a vital organ.

And the private investigators who work for them are parasites on parasites.

Oh yeah. That worked so well for Lenin and Chairman Mao and every other country that did away with the capitalists. And it was by the efforts of organized labor that put such men into power resulting in loss of freedom for all, extreme hardship for everybody, and the deaths of tens of millions of innocent people.

Be careful what you wish for my friend.

Can you honestly say that Russia wasn't better off in 1945 than it was in 1917?

Can you honestly say that China isn't better off today than it was in 1947?

Besides the fact you repeat the poppycock of millions killed from Cold War Propaganda, I'm going to let you in on the dirty little secret of all economic systems.

They all sound just wonderful on paper.

And they all can be totally fucked up by human beings.

Now I'll admit, I engage in a bit of hyperbole out of frustation when talking to Toro and Gawdag the racist, because they want to credit Capitalism with all that is good and never give them any blame for the things the mess up.

I mean, shit, you can do that with China and the USSR, if you want to do that. They'd sound totally awesome if you never talk about the bad stuff.