Ukraine faces losing dignity or US support with Trump’s plan to end war, Zelensky says

[Hafar1014]

Oh, just the shut the * up!

Vladimir are you posting here again

 

[struth]

Trump want to undermine NATO.

He has consistantly worked to undermine the western alliance and betray the legacy of Roosevelt and Churchill.

His every effort has been to support Russian interests (as he is doing right now).

And he clearly has done everything he can to undermine US aid to Ukraine, withhold aid and material, and support the Kremlin.

“Dembot, what does trump have to give Russia?”

Trump supports the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and has split the western alliance because of it.

A Kremlin foreign policy goal.

Trump strengthen NATO, frankly what he did in his first term is the only reason Putin hasn’t already taken Ukraine

Statements

by NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg and US President Donald Trump in the Cabinet Room at the White House

www.nato.int

 

[Ringo]

No one in history ever welcomed Russian “aid”!

Someday I will write an big article here about nations, many nations, that asked, BEGGED to be accepted into russian citizenship over a period of several hundred years.
Not for you, you are already beyond comprehension. But Russia's history differs from that of other countries in that NO ONE else had such an experience. Not the White House, not the Downing street, 10 etc. Only Russia.

 

[struth]

RussI invaded Georgia in 2006,occupying about 20% of the country. As in Ukraine, it drove the election of a pro-Moscow government, one which has allowed further Russian incursion into Georgia, and the subsequent Georgian drift to authoritarian government.

It’s easy to surmise that this pattern of Russian aggression was the model ofor Moscow’s efforts in Ukraine.

Russia was behind the brutal repression of Chechnya,

It also backed its middle easterm client state, Syria. The barrel bombs and poison gas dropped on Allepo were Russian.

Russian operatives have also aided various Islamic terrorists across central Africa.

On the propoganda front, the Russian FSB pioneered and developed a sophisticated fake news and bot operation and deployed it to undermine efforts the Russians saw as contrary to their goals.

Russian bots attempted to sway election in Italy and France (a twice) in order to being more right wing and Russo centric politicians t power in NATO.

They were also a principal factor in promoting BREXIT, their biggest success at the time. BREXIT would be a blow to the EU and devastating to Britain, both Moscow goals.

And, of course, there is the very well documented Russian campaign to help Donal Trump get elected.

The Russians owned Trump, being the principal financier of most of his businesses for over 20 years. They also knew that he was weak, self absorbed, corrupt and easy to push around.

There is no evidence that the Russian campaign put Trump in the White House. Other factors also did,including the nature of electoral college.

none the less, Trump has been Putin’s devoted servant ever since.

Who can forget the Georgia invasion, and then Bush threaded military intervention, they backed down, then Obama got elected, gave Putin the great Russian reset, promised to be more flexible, backed out of nato missile defense plans in Eastern Europe and boom…allowed Putin to take part of Ukraine

 

[Rogue AI]

Europe pays for any material we send to Ukraine. If Russia expands they are threat to us and the free world economy. Then we have major war on our hands. Best to contain Russia where they are and drain their resources.

An expanded Russia is no threat to the US. Nothing here changes because lines on a map change half a world away.

We are fools for not befriending Russia. They have more material resources than any country in the world. Yet we foolishly maintain trade with communist China. Talk about backwards priorities.

A strong independent Russia would have been a nice hedge against China if idiot liberals and Cold War fossils hadn't mucked it all up.

 

[theHawk]

He was elected largely by votes in Dombass and Donetsk, results which were widely disputed by observers for the very obvious and heavy handed Russian interference. intimidation and stuffed ballot boxes were common.

“Just because he wasn’t wanting to wage war against Putin doesn’t make him a “Putin stooge”.

You do realize that Yanokovich lives comfortably in Moscow.

Would Moscow have invaded Ukraine if they joined the EU, as you claim.

The question doesn’t really matter since Russia responded to their man’s ouster by invading Crimea and launching the Russo-Ukraine war , which it disastrously escalated in 2022.

There is no evidence that the Maiden Revolution was run by the United States. you have no evidence to back that claim.

Ukranians threw Moscow’s stooge out.

At this point, I have to wonder if you aren’t one of the Russian trolls who patrol this forum. Your posts are pitch perfect Kremlin propoganda.

Are you claiming elections can be stolen?

Now suddenly insurrections are okay then?

Yes, Yanokovich fled to Russia, because otherwise he would had been assassinated in his own country by the US backed side. How terrible of him to flee to a country that doesn’t want to murder him.

The Euromaiden revolt was certainly supported by the US. No doubt some of it was genuine with Ukrainians. Revolutions to happen, and I do not oppose the idea if it’s true to the people. The problem is after the government is dissolved like that and a new government formed, you aren’t automatically entitled to all the land you had before, especially if portions of your country aren’t a part of that revolution. That is certainly the case with Donbas and Crimea.

So like I already stated, I am fine with a new Ukrainian government in Kiev, but this “new Ukraine” needs to have new borders.

Let the people of Donbas and Crimea determine their own fate. Of course they did just that, but since they voted against Kiev the West just immediately denounces the results as “rigged by the Russians”, because they can’t fathom anyone would vote differently than them.


You may not like the ethnic Russians because you’re racist or whatever, but that doesn’t give you the right to dictate what government they should have.

 

[theHawk]

Once again,you repeat the Moscow line chapter and verse.

The most clearly preposterous part of it is that you make all sorts of statements about tyrannical powers drawing borders. When you yourself claimed that the Russians drew the borders!

“keep up the talking points spewed by the warmongers.”

That’s what you’re doing. If you’re not a Russian troll, you have every one of their talking points down word for word.

Russia is the agressor here.

Once again you have no actual argument. Just call me a “Russian troll”. This is your only “argument”.

You are the one defending the borders drawn up by Bolshevik Russians, not me. I am saying new borders need to be drawn to divide the Ukrainians from the Russians. We need to stop acting like it’s the end of the world if Russia gains back some land. The world did just fine when Russia had this land back in 1900, or 1800.

You have yet to put forward any argument of why this land and the ethnic Russians in it should be ruled by Kiev when it’s clear they don’t want to be ruled by Kiev. All you do is regurgitate Kiev/Washington talking points. Of course it’s because you could care less about actual representation in government, you just care about power and that “your side” has power over everyone. Your side says we need to control that part of the world and dictate to those people who should rule them, so you follow them like a good little sheeple. I on the other hand, am not so arrogant as to dictate to these people who should rule them. I am fine with them picking their own government, even if it is big bad Russia.

This idiotic foreign policy of only backing pro-US regimes around the world has been disastrous. If a country doesn’t like the U.S. then just let them be. Limit trade with them and don’t give them foreign aid. No reason to force a false government on them.

 

[theHawk]

RussI invaded Georgia in 2006,occupying about 20% of the country. As in Ukraine, it drove the election of a pro-Moscow government, one which has allowed further Russian incursion into Georgia, and the subsequent Georgian drift to authoritarian government.

It’s easy to surmise that this pattern of Russian aggression was the model ofor Moscow’s efforts in Ukraine.

Russia was behind the brutal repression of Chechnya,

It also backed its middle easterm client state, Syria. The barrel bombs and poison gas dropped on Allepo were Russian.

Russian operatives have also aided various Islamic terrorists across central Africa.

On the propoganda front, the Russian FSB pioneered and developed a sophisticated fake news and bot operation and deployed it to undermine efforts the Russians saw as contrary to their goals.

Russian bots attempted to sway election in Italy and France (a twice) in order to being more right wing and Russo centric politicians t power in NATO.

They were also a principal factor in promoting BREXIT, their biggest success at the time. BREXIT would be a blow to the EU and devastating to Britain, both Moscow goals.

And, of course, there is the very well documented Russian campaign to help Donal Trump get elected.

The Russians owned Trump, being the principal financier of most of his businesses for over 20 years. They also knew that he was weak, self absorbed, corrupt and easy to push around.

There is no evidence that the Russian campaign put Trump in the White House. Other factors also did,including the nature of electoral college.

none the less, Trump has been Putin’s devoted servant ever since.

So what? We’ve invaded plenty of countries ourselves. The Russians aren’t allowed to when it comes to their self interests? I don’t know what their skirmish with the Georgians was all about, and I don’t really care. All I know is that is was better for us to stay the hell out of it and it wasn’t the end of the world.

We’ve “aided” many Islamic countries. Just because Russia supposedly did, this means what, we need to go to war with them or do some stupid regime change war with them? Total nonsense.

What about all the shit China does in Africa. Why is it we have all this free trade with a true communist regime like China, and we never hear a peep from your side about it. But Russia has to be our enemy even though they aren’t nearly the threat that China is.

The Russians did not “own Trump”, more of your stupid nonsensical Russia hoax crap.

Yes, Trump won because of the electoral college. How astute of you to recognize that is how people win the Presidency. It’s funny how much contempt you lefties have for the electoral college system, yet you call us “Russian trolls”.

 

[Ringo]

 

[TimFitz]

Someday I will write an big article here about nations, many nations, that asked, BEGGED to be accepted into russian citizenship over a period of several hundred years.
Not for you, you are already beyond comprehension. But Russia's history differs from that of other countries in that NO ONE else had such an experience. Not the White House, not the Downing street, 10 etc. Only Russia.

You can take all the time you need.

 

[TimFitz]

So what? We’ve invaded plenty of countries ourselves. The Russians aren’t allowed to when it comes to their self interests? I don’t know what their skirmish with the Georgians was all about, and I don’t really care. All I know is that is was better for us to stay the hell out of it and it wasn’t the end of the world.

We’ve “aided” many Islamic countries. Just because Russia supposedly did, this means what, we need to go to war with them or do some stupid regime change war with them? Total nonsense.

What about all the shit China does in Africa. Why is it we have all this free trade with a true communist regime like China, and we never hear a peep from your side about it. But Russia has to be our enemy even though they aren’t nearly the threat that China is.

The Russians did not “own Trump”, more of your stupid nonsensical Russia hoax crap.

Yes, Trump won because of the electoral college. How astute of you to recognize that is how people win the Presidency. It’s funny how much contempt you lefties have for the electoral college system, yet you call us “Russian trolls”.

You keep taking yourself into corners.

“So what? We’ve invaded plenty of countries ourselves.”

The Red Army enforced Russian dominance in Eastern Europe for nearly 50 years,

“We’ve “aided” many Islamic countries. Just because Russia supposedly did, ”

There is no supposedly about it. The Russians supported the Assad regime of fifty years. Few doubt thst they supplied the poison gas dropped on Allepo.

There is no “supposedly” about it.|
China is not supporting terrorist groups in Africa.

 

[struth]

You keep taking yourself into corners.

“So what? We’ve invaded plenty of countries ourselves.”

The Red Army enforced Russian dominance in Eastern Europe for nearly 50 years,

“We’ve “aided” many Islamic countries. Just because Russia supposedly did, ”

There is no supposedly about it. The Russians supported the Assad regime of fifty years. Few doubt thst they supplied the poison gas dropped on Allepo.

There is no “supposedly” about it.|
China is not supporting terrorist groups in Africa.

Yes Assad was a socialist like his father who had ties to the USSR. Makes you wonder why Obama invite Putin back in after Assad crossed the red line and trusted him to remove the WMDs

 

[theHawk]

You keep taking yourself into corners.

“So what? We’ve invaded plenty of countries ourselves.”

The Red Army enforced Russian dominance in Eastern Europe for nearly 50 years,

“We’ve “aided” many Islamic countries. Just because Russia supposedly did, ”

There is no supposedly about it. The Russians supported the Assad regime of fifty years. Few doubt thst they supplied the poison gas dropped on Allepo.

There is no “supposedly” about it.|
China is not supporting terrorist groups in Africa.

The Red Army? That isn’t the Russia of today. Those were your friends, the Bolsheviks. You know, the leftwing “socialists” who drew up the ridiculous modern day Ukraine borders that you want to protect more than America’s borders.

Yea, Russia was allied with Syria. So what? Everyone in the world has to buy their arms from the US? Again with this stupid nonsense that Russia isn’t allowed to do anything with any other country, even having good relations with them. How many times did Syria attack the US? Oh yea, it never did. But for some reason we needed to get rid of Assad, and now it’s run by true radical Jihadists. It’s almost as if you globalists welcome radical Islam and want to empower it.


You hate it when Russia has hostilities with a nation, then also hate it when it is friendly with a nation. So anything Russia does is bad. This is your ridiculous position.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ukraine has been losing ground steadily all year with nothing to show for it. It is a waste of our money to continue supporting a lost cause. It is a European problem and we should never have been involved.

And there were many Americans that stated that about Britian after Dunkirk. We all know how that turned out. Let Russia take Ukraine, and WW3 is certain.

 

[Old Rocks]

"Giving away" land that Ukraine lost in their stupid war against Russia

Ukraine's war against Russia? What a ******* liar you are. Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around. Comrade Frank, we now see your true colors.

 

[JimH52]

Yes we spent billions upon billions for nothing. Maybe you loons shouldn't of elected a vegetable for president.

If trump had been president when Germany invaded France, the French would be speaking German now. trump is worse than Chamberlain.

 

[JimH52]

And there were many Americans that stated that about Britian after Dunkirk. We all know how that turned out. Let Russia take Ukraine, and WW3 is certain.

Only the MAGATS think Poootin will stop with Ukraine.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Ukraine's war against Russia? What a ******* liar you are. Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around. Comrade Frank, we now see your true colors.

You have it totally backwards. Russia had to defend Russian Nationals who voted OVERWHELMINGLY to rejoin Russia.

In any event, Biden approved the Invasion

 

[struth]

If trump had been president when Germany invaded France, the French would be speaking German now. trump is worse than Chamberlain.

Who was president when Putin invaded Ukraine?

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

Putin owns Trump.

No. Putin owns a portion of Ukraine. The bisexual midget doesn’t have the money, manpower or resources to get it back.