Ukraine faces losing dignity or US support with Trump’s plan to end war, Zelensky says

[theHawk]

Actually,in the Crimean War, it was the British and the French who drove the Russians out of Crimea.

That was much later, when the cucked British Empire would rather see the Muslim Ottomans own territory rather than the Russians. Sounds a lot like today’s British. They love Muslims and hate Christian Russians.

 

[theHawk]

“But hey, it’s probably easier if you just ignore all those facts and the actual history of Ukraine, like the fact that its borders were drawn up by Russian Bolsheviks during the USSR in order to shoehorn in a bunch of ethnic Russians into the satellite Ukrainian State. “

Your facts are selective and your omissions many

Yet you can’t actually refute my facts, nor point out any omissions that actually matter.


The fact is the borders of Ukraine make no sense. 95% of the world’s geopolitical conflicts are due to stupid borders drawn up by tyrannical powers or outside powers, with no regard to the people within the borders. Like how the British carved up the Middle East. That’s why places like Iraq will always be war torn shit holes, because the borders make no sense. They separate ethnic tribes like Sunnis and Shia, give no land at all to other tribes like the Kurds, and deny strategic areas like ports. Do I even need to mention Israel?

Ukraine’s borders are stupid, putting ethnic Ukrainians and Russians in the same country. The Donbas region and Crimea should either go independent or if they want to join Russia let them. The rest should remain Ukraine. A common sense treaty to redraw the borders could had averted this whole stupid war. But the U.S. and Europe are rather unhinged when it comes to Russia, and prefer starting a war just to hurt Russia, at the expense of the Ukrainian people. To the warmongers in Washington, the Ukrainians are just pawns.

I don’t hate any Ukrainian or Russian people, and I will not support this stupid, totally manufactured and unnecessary war. But hey, you make a great keyboard warrior, keep up the talking points spewed by the warmongers.

 

[struth]

Well your blob’s plan is to give Putin everything and Ukraine nothing.

Clearly Putin owns him.

Give? What is ours to give either side?

 

[candycorn]

Give? What is ours to give either side?

So you don’t like Trump’s plan?

 

[AlexanderPK]

So you don’t like Trump’s plan?

What's to like? It won't work anyway. It's not a plan, it's bull. Russia's is the only way the problem is going to be solved.

 

[Hafar1014]

Ukraine has been losing ground steadily all year with nothing to show for it. It is a waste of our money to continue supporting a lost cause. It is a European problem and we should never have been involved.

We arent funding Ukraine Europe is. Its a world problem Russia is a threat to all of us.

 

[struth]

So you don’t like Trump’s plan?

That’s not an answer. Please answer my question

Or I’ll take your lack of a response as a white flag and your comment as simply troll bait

 

[candycorn]

That’s not an answer. Please answer my question

Or I’ll take your lack of a response as a white flag and your comment as simply troll bait

Oh, little boy, you haven’t earned the chops to ask a question.

Trump’s plan gives Russia everything they want and then some. Your attempt at clever word play is juvenile even for you.

 

[struth]

Oh, little boy, you haven’t earned the chops to ask a question.

Trump’s plan gives Russia everything they want and then some. Your attempt at clever word play is juvenile even for you.

Dembot, what does trump have to give Russia?

Nothing

You dembots simply can’t think and just parrot your propagandist

 

[TimFitz]

He was elected in Ukraine. Just because he wasn’t wanting to wage war against Putin doesn’t make him a “Putin stooge”. He was smart enough to understand it wouldn’t be wise to provoke and start a war with Russia by getting in bed with the EU and America.

But this is always the excuse, “Putin stooge!”, as if that justifies the United States in overthrowing an elected President. How about just let the Ukrainians vote him out? Suddenly democracy isn’t important, when they don’t vote how you like.

He was elected largely by votes in Dombass and Donetsk, results which were widely disputed by observers for the very obvious and heavy handed Russian interference. intimidation and stuffed ballot boxes were common.

“Just because he wasn’t wanting to wage war against Putin doesn’t make him a “Putin stooge”.

You do realize that Yanokovich lives comfortably in Moscow.

Would Moscow have invaded Ukraine if they joined the EU, as you claim.

The question doesn’t really matter since Russia responded to their man’s ouster by invading Crimea and launching the Russo-Ukraine war , which it disastrously escalated in 2022.

There is no evidence that the Maiden Revolution was run by the United States. you have no evidence to back that claim.

Ukranians threw Moscow’s stooge out.

At this point, I have to wonder if you aren’t one of the Russian trolls who patrol this forum. Your posts are pitch perfect Kremlin propoganda.

 

[TimFitz]

Did I say Zelensky?

Nope. It was Poroshenko, who of course was a corrupt piece of shit. Which is exactly why Obama and Biden wanted him installed. That way they could launder money through Ukraine. Just ask Hunter, who coincidentally “worked” for Burisma from 2014 to 2019, collected fat checks for doing nothing while the U.S. gave billions in aid to Ukraine.

More made up BS.

The Americans did not pick Poroshenko.

Why would Americans want to launder money through Ukraine?

The Burisma bullshit is also a product of Moscow’s efforts to undermine American support for NATO and Ukraine. It was a fraud from day one.

 

[TimFitz]

Dembot, what does trump have to give Russia?

Nothing

You dembots simply can’t think and just parrot your propagandist

Trump want to undermine NATO.

He has consistantly worked to undermine the western alliance and betray the legacy of Roosevelt and Churchill.

His every effort has been to support Russian interests (as he is doing right now).

And he clearly has done everything he can to undermine US aid to Ukraine, withhold aid and material, and support the Kremlin.

“Dembot, what does trump have to give Russia?”

Trump supports the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and has split the western alliance because of it.

A Kremlin foreign policy goal.

 

[Rogue AI]

We arent funding Ukraine Europe is. Its a world problem Russia is a threat to all of us.

If we aren't funding it, this is a non-issue. The only threat Russia poses to us is ICBMs. What they do in Europe or Asia is no threat to us at all.

 

[TimFitz]

No that is what every historian says about the history of NATO and the initial promises made about its expansion.

How many nations has Russia been aggressors against since the 1990’s? More than the U.S.? I think not. Sure they’ve had a few incursions, like Georgia. Remember when McCain wanted us to go to war against Russia because he claimed Georgia would be wiped off the map? How’d that turn out? Did Russia conquer Georgia? Nope. They settled their dispute and Georgia is still there.

The lies of you warmongers aren’t adding up.

RussI invaded Georgia in 2006,occupying about 20% of the country. As in Ukraine, it drove the election of a pro-Moscow government, one which has allowed further Russian incursion into Georgia, and the subsequent Georgian drift to authoritarian government.

It’s easy to surmise that this pattern of Russian aggression was the model ofor Moscow’s efforts in Ukraine.

Russia was behind the brutal repression of Chechnya,

It also backed its middle easterm client state, Syria. The barrel bombs and poison gas dropped on Allepo were Russian.

Russian operatives have also aided various Islamic terrorists across central Africa.

On the propoganda front, the Russian FSB pioneered and developed a sophisticated fake news and bot operation and deployed it to undermine efforts the Russians saw as contrary to their goals.

Russian bots attempted to sway election in Italy and France (a twice) in order to being more right wing and Russo centric politicians t power in NATO.

They were also a principal factor in promoting BREXIT, their biggest success at the time. BREXIT would be a blow to the EU and devastating to Britain, both Moscow goals.

And, of course, there is the very well documented Russian campaign to help Donal Trump get elected.

The Russians owned Trump, being the principal financier of most of his businesses for over 20 years. They also knew that he was weak, self absorbed, corrupt and easy to push around.

There is no evidence that the Russian campaign put Trump in the White House. Other factors also did,including the nature of electoral college.

none the less, Trump has been Putin’s devoted servant ever since.

 

[JimH52]

Yep. Putin pulls his strings and trump dances. It has been this way since before elected again, all the way back to trump attempts at building Trump Moscow and trump financing by Russian oligarchs, all the way back to the 1990s.
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Once trump was elected, Ukraine could have mailed it in. Donnie has put up a good face for a while. Now he is Poootin's B*tch.

 

[Zavulon]

It seems to me, Trump and his team want to take something (further survival of Kievan regime and Ukrainian militants) for nothing - just empty words and promises.
And, anyway, Zelenskiy and Europe won't agree. They want the flow of American money and weapons.

 

[Hafar1014]

If we aren't funding it, this is a non-issue. The only threat Russia poses to us is ICBMs. What they do in Europe or Asia is no threat to us at all.

Europe pays for any material we send to Ukraine. If Russia expands they are threat to us and the free world economy. Then we have major war on our hands. Best to contain Russia where they are and drain their resources.

 

[Hafar1014]

Europe pays for any material we send to Ukraine. If Russia expands they are threat to us and the free world economy. Then we have major war on our hands. Best to contain Russia where they are and drain their resources. Russia is part of the China Iran N Korea axis of evil. You need a broader perspective

 

[TimFitz]

Yet you can’t actually refute my facts, nor point out any omissions that actually matter.


The fact is the borders of Ukraine make no sense. 95% of the world’s geopolitical conflicts are due to stupid borders drawn up by tyrannical powers or outside powers, with no regard to the people within the borders. Like how the British carved up the Middle East. That’s why places like Iraq will always be war torn shit holes, because the borders make no sense. They separate ethnic tribes like Sunnis and Shia, give no land at all to other tribes like the Kurds, and deny strategic areas like ports. Do I even need to mention Israel?

Ukraine’s borders are stupid, putting ethnic Ukrainians and Russians in the same country. The Donbas region and Crimea should either go independent or if they want to join Russia let them. The rest should remain Ukraine. A common sense treaty to redraw the borders could had averted this whole stupid war. But the U.S. and Europe are rather unhinged when it comes to Russia, and prefer starting a war just to hurt Russia, at the expense of the Ukrainian people. To the warmongers in Washington, the Ukrainians are just pawns.

I don’t hate any Ukrainian or Russian people, and I will not support this stupid, totally manufactured and unnecessary war. But hey, you make a great keyboard warrior, keep up the talking points spewed by the warmongers.

Once again,you repeat the Moscow line chapter and verse.

The most clearly preposterous part of it is that you make all sorts of statements about tyrannical powers drawing borders. When you yourself claimed that the Russians drew the borders!

“keep up the talking points spewed by the warmongers.”

That’s what you’re doing. If you’re not a Russian troll, you have every one of their talking points down word for word.

Russia is the agressor here.

 

[Ringo]

the free world

Oh, just the shut the * up!