U.S getting spyed on by ally AGAIN?!!!

[marsnow]

Gosh Sally.

I am sure that was an Israeli operative.
The US Navy is about as trusting of Israel as it is of Russia. Maybe less.

Have you never been told to not trust what people tell you about themselves on the net?

(PS: My real name is Netanyahu. Benjamin.)

Have you ever thought that since my own husband is retired Navy, we happened to meet this poster out here when he was on his way to play golf with a buddy. Lots of golf courses on military bases. Are you sure you name isn't Arafat Jr.?

Your story is probably true. The only reason Israeli intel is able to operate is with co-operation from military personnel at different levels. Some military personnel believe Israel acts in the US interest. There are others who disagree -- but are told to keep their opinions to themselves.

 

[Sally]

Gosh Sally.

I am sure that was an Israeli operative.
The US Navy is about as trusting of Israel as it is of Russia. Maybe less.

Have you never been told to not trust what people tell you about themselves on the net?

(PS: My real name is Netanyahu. Benjamin.)

Have you ever thought that since my own husband is retired Navy, we happened to meet this poster out here when he was on his way to play golf with a buddy. Lots of golf courses on military bases. Are you sure you name isn't Arafat Jr.?

Your story is probably true. The only reason Israeli intel is able to operate is with co-operation from military personnel at different levels. Some military personnel believe Israel acts in the US interest. There are others who disagree -- but are told to keep their opinions to themselves.

Now how would you know that. Did they tell you that in some saloon?

 

[marsnow]

Have you ever thought that since my own husband is retired Navy, we happened to meet this poster out here when he was on his way to play golf with a buddy. Lots of golf courses on military bases. Are you sure you name isn't Arafat Jr.?

Your story is probably true. The only reason Israeli intel is able to operate is with co-operation from military personnel at different levels. Some military personnel believe Israel acts in the US interest. There are others who disagree -- but are told to keep their opinions to themselves.

Now how would you know that. Did they tell you that in some saloon?

WTF is a saloon may I ask?

A saloon is a sign of the end of your arguments.

 

[Sally]

Your story is probably true. The only reason Israeli intel is able to operate is with co-operation from military personnel at different levels. Some military personnel believe Israel acts in the US interest. There are others who disagree -- but are told to keep their opinions to themselves.

Now how would you know that. Did they tell you that in some saloon?

WTF is a saloon may I ask?

A saloon is a sign of the end of your arguments.

Were you actually trying to convince us that you at one time worked for some government agency and knew all about what some military personnel believe? I go shopping on a military base, and I have no idea what all those people believe. Maybe I should just make up a questionnaire and hand it to them so I get their thoughts.

 

[Beelzebub]

There are more Zionists in America than in Israel.

Partly due to a certain bible bashing nutter factor, and partly due to vested interests.
If you are in the war industry, there is no better agent provocateur than Israel, to make sure the sector is booming.

That is bribes and blackmail, aside, of course.

 

[marsnow]

Now how would you know that. Did they tell you that in some saloon?

WTF is a saloon may I ask?

A saloon is a sign of the end of your arguments.

Were you actually trying to convince us that you at one time worked for some government agency and knew all about what some military personnel believe? I go shopping on a military base, and I have no idea what all those people believe. Maybe I should just make up a questionnaire and hand it to them so I get their thoughts.

Nah. Look on youtube for Michael Schuer former head of bin laden unit in CIA on his views on Israel and reaction congressman gives.

Honestly, I honor you and your husband's service and don't want to belittle your ideas. I don't want him or his friends to go to the Middle East on the behalf of another country unless it is absolutely necessary to our security. So I'd actually love if you tried the questionnaire, might be interesting.

 

[Sally]

There are more Zionists in America than in Israel.

Partly due to a certain bible bashing nutter factor, and partly due to vested interests.
If you are in the war industry, there is no better agent provocateur than Israel, to make sure the sector is booming.

That is bribes and blackmail, aside, of course.

Of course there are more Zionists in America since America has more people. As one Christian poster once said, there are millions of Christians in America who are for Israel. Why not take a poll on the streets (if you actually live here and not in England) and ask the people what they think about Israel and the rest of the countries in the Middle East. As you can see, there is no end to demonizing the Israelis for this crowd. Like Israel is bribing and blackmailing sthose who head the different defense companies. Maybe this anti-Israel group wants the readers to think they are flies on the walls in the boardrooms of our defense companies and they know everything that goes on.

Aside from this, I thought it was great that Israel brought over a captured MIG along with their amazing pilots who were practicing with our Top Guns down at Miramar Air Station so that our Top Guns would have experience against MIGs. This is what friends do.

 

[marsnow]

There are more Zionists in America than in Israel.

Partly due to a certain bible bashing nutter factor, and partly due to vested interests.
If you are in the war industry, there is no better agent provocateur than Israel, to make sure the sector is booming.

That is bribes and blackmail, aside, of course.

Of course there are more Zionists in America since America has more people. As one Christian poster once said, there are millions of Christians in America who are for Israel. Why not take a poll on the streets (if you actually live here and not in England) and ask the people what they think about Israel and the rest of the countries in the Middle East. As you can see, there is no end to demonizing the Israelis for this crowd. Like Israel is bribing and blackmailing sthose who head the different defense companies. Maybe this anti-Israel group wants the readers to think they are flies on the walls in the boardrooms of our defense companies and they know everything that goes on.

Aside from this, I thought it was great that Israel brought over a captured MIG along with their amazing pilots who were practicing with our Top Guns down at Miramar Air Station so that our Top Guns would have experience against MIGs. This is what friends do.

This is my last post on this thread. Israel has undoubtedly been an asset at some points. They also have been a liability. And to anyone who questions whether their influence is a good thing -- ie Walt and Mersheimer they are brandished as anti-semites. Its silly and ineffective.

 

[Sally]

There are more Zionists in America than in Israel.

Partly due to a certain bible bashing nutter factor, and partly due to vested interests.
If you are in the war industry, there is no better agent provocateur than Israel, to make sure the sector is booming.

That is bribes and blackmail, aside, of course.

Of course there are more Zionists in America since America has more people. As one Christian poster once said, there are millions of Christians in America who are for Israel. Why not take a poll on the streets (if you actually live here and not in England) and ask the people what they think about Israel and the rest of the countries in the Middle East. As you can see, there is no end to demonizing the Israelis for this crowd. Like Israel is bribing and blackmailing sthose who head the different defense companies. Maybe this anti-Israel group wants the readers to think they are flies on the walls in the boardrooms of our defense companies and they know everything that goes on.

Aside from this, I thought it was great that Israel brought over a captured MIG along with their amazing pilots who were practicing with our Top Guns down at Miramar Air Station so that our Top Guns would have experience against MIGs. This is what friends do.

This is my last post on this thread. Israel has undoubtedly been an asset at some points. They also have been a liability. And to anyone who questions whether their influence is a good thing -- ie Walt and Mersheimer they are brandished as anti-semites. Its silly and ineffective.

Someone who studied under one of them was shocked to see how anti-Semitic he was. However, those two guys are very popular on the hate sites. Meanwhile, you keep on demonizing Israel, and I will also keep up with what is going on in the rest of the Middle East and the Muslim world in general. I don't want to just stand in a little spot concentrating just on one little country in the Middle East when the Middle East is a huge place.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[RoccoR]

marsnow, et al,

Most everything of "value" is a liability of some sort. Your car is a liability and you buy insurance to cover that. But, in being a liability, doesn't make something intrinsically bad; it doesn't stop it from being necessary or you using it. Hell, General Petraeus was both a serious strategic and political liability (you may recall he had to resign under fire) organizationally and personably.

Gosh, the former head of forces in Iraq General Petraeus said that Israel was a strategic liability. Obviously we are not allowed to discuss or question that liability ever unlike every other ally we have on the planet. I don't give a damn about Israel either way. I care about the interests of one country and one country only -- the USA.

(COMMENT)

The discussion of the relationship between the US and Israel comes with a very complex study pertaining to reliability and defect analysis. The persistence of the relationship requires constant maintenance and the delicate tweaking of the political policies that effectively interact with the regional influences, as well as, the productive furtherance of global relationships.

The relationship between the US and Israel is not exclusively based on the net value of today's benefit. We are talking about a country in which the US shares virtually all of the same basic political and social developmental values; and is located in a region that is extremely important to US strategic economic and resource interests; which is exactly opposite --- and does not share the same values as America.

Since the 1967 War, and the occupation of the territories, support for Arab-Israeli peace efforts has weighed heavily on the US. US Policy stipulates that any such Peace Arrangement be based on the preservation of Israel and the Jewish National Home. The assurance of an “extended regional deterrence” is a tangible asset to the Israelis, but also an intangible asset in terms of the global perceived value of an American alliance and its realistic resolve and moral commitment; a commitment that cannot be abandon lightly --- in the face of very serious consequences.

In saying this, and assessing the value of a steadfast relationship with Israel, we also have to examine, with a critical eye, the entire issue and potential consequence of overturning the status quo of occupation in the West Bank and turning loose the Palestinians in a 100% autonomous landscape. Because once it is done, the west would have a difficult time in corrective action should it turn sour. And that is of an exceptionally grave issue to American Strategic Interest.

Realistically, the release of occupation (in favor of autonomy) does not guarantee peace and security either for Israel, regionally, or globally. The region is crawling with terrorists, insurgents, jihadists, fedayeen, would be freedom fighters, wannabe martyrs, and third party Islamic actors just waiting to jump in and take control for the accomplishment of nefarious goals and objectives. Even HAMAS, with some significant hold over the Gaza Strip population and some limited influence in the West Bank, is masquerading as a legitimate political party, yet totally controlled by fanatical militants that will take any opportunity to strike. No matter how you frame it, the Israeli Occupation and Containment process is contributing greatly to the internal security of the surrounding Arab Kingdoms and struggling Arab Democracies. Israel, in many respects, is doing the heavy lifting not just for itself, but for much of the Arab League. The sudden and uncontrolled release of containment could have incalculable repercussions that could spread well beyond the present zone of control.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[marsnow]

marsnow, et al,

Most everything of "value" is a liability of some sort. Your car is a liability and you buy insurance to cover that. But, in being a liability, doesn't make something intrinsically bad; it doesn't stop it from being necessary or you using it. Hell, General Petraeus was both a serious strategic and political liability (you may recall he had to resign under fire) organizationally and personably.

Gosh, the former head of forces in Iraq General Petraeus said that Israel was a strategic liability. Obviously we are not allowed to discuss or question that liability ever unlike every other ally we have on the planet. I don't give a damn about Israel either way. I care about the interests of one country and one country only -- the USA.

(COMMENT)

The discussion of the relationship between the US and Israel comes with a very complex study pertaining to reliability and defect analysis. The persistence of the relationship requires constant maintenance and the delicate tweaking of the political policies that effectively interact with the regional influences, as well as, the productive furtherance of global relationships.

The relationship between the US and Israel is not exclusively based on the net value of today's benefit. We are talking about a country in which the US shares virtually all of the same basic political and social developmental values; and is located in a region that is extremely important to US strategic economic and resource interests; which is exactly opposite --- and does not share the same values as America.

Since the 1967 War, and the occupation of the territories, support for Arab-Israeli peace efforts has weighed heavily on the US. US Policy stipulates that any such Peace Arrangement be based on the preservation of Israel and the Jewish National Home. The assurance of an “extended regional deterrence” is a tangible asset to the Israelis, but also an intangible asset in terms of the global perceived value of an American alliance and its realistic resolve and moral commitment; a commitment that cannot be abandon lightly --- in the face of very serious consequences.

In saying this, and assessing the value of a steadfast relationship with Israel, we also have to examine, with a critical eye, the entire issue and potential consequence of overturning the status quo of occupation in the West Bank and turning loose the Palestinians in a 100% autonomous landscape. Because once it is done, the west would have a difficult time in corrective action should it turn sour. And that is of an exceptionally grave issue to American Strategic Interest.

Realistically, the release of occupation (in favor of autonomy) does not guarantee peace and security either for Israel, regionally, or globally. The region is crawling with terrorists, insurgents, jihadists, fedayeen, would be freedom fighters, wannabe martyrs, and third party Islamic actors just waiting to jump in and take control for the accomplishment of nefarious goals and objectives. Even HAMAS, with some significant hold over the Gaza Strip population and some limited influence in the West Bank, is masquerading as a legitimate political party, yet totally controlled by fanatical militants that will take any opportunity to strike. No matter how you frame it, the Israeli Occupation and Containment process is contributing greatly to the internal security of the surrounding Arab Kingdoms and struggling Arab Democracies. Israel, in many respects, is doing the heavy lifting not just for itself, but for much of the Arab League. The sudden and uncontrolled release of containment could have incalculable repercussions that could spread well beyond the present zone of control.

Most Respectfully,
R

Reasonable analysis from an American perspective -- and probably contains the grains of the truth of why little change will occur quickly.

 

[montelatici]

"The sudden and uncontrolled release of containment could have incalculable repercussions that could spread well beyond the present zone of control. "

That is almost exactly what Hitler said about containing the "Communist Jews", and how he was saving Western civilization from socialist and communist insurgents and terrorists. Interesting.

 

[Dot Com]

There are more Zionists in America than in Israel.

Partly due to a certain bible bashing nutter factor, and partly due to vested interests.
If you are in the war industry, there is no better agent provocateur than Israel, to make sure the sector is booming.

That is bribes and blackmail, aside, of course.

yep, weapons are one of the few high-value exports this once great republic has left.

 

[Sally]

A retired Naval Intelligence officer eh, well it must be true then. Of course what if he really wasn't what he said he was. Do you think even former intelligence officers would allude to classified information on a message board?

So, Haniya, with your limited ability, do you really thiink that by saying that if Americans knew how much Israel helped America they wouldn't begrudge Israel anything is actually classified information? Was he actually telling the readers what Israel did to help America? I used to have a Secret Clearance working for the Aerospace Corp., and I think I would know what classified information is.

 

[aris2chat]

"The sudden and uncontrolled release of containment could have incalculable repercussions that could spread well beyond the present zone of control. "

That is almost exactly what Hitler said about containing the "Communist Jews", and how he was saving Western civilization from socialist and communist insurgents and terrorists. Interesting.

Justifying your prejudice with a hitler reference???
That is anything but a criticism of Israel, that is loathing of jews...... ANTISEMITISM

 

[montelatici]

I see, observing that the tactics are the same makes it Anti-Semitism. Interesting.

 

[Beelzebub]

Most everything of "value" is a liability of some sort. Your car is a liability and you buy insurance to cover that. But, in being a liability, doesn't make something intrinsically bad;

Those are weasle words. When someone calls a supposed ally a liability, we know what he is conveying.

In saying this, and assessing the value of a steadfast relationship with Israel, we also have to examine, with a critical eye, the entire issue and potential consequence of overturning the status quo of occupation in the West Bank and turning loose the Palestinians in a 100% autonomous landscape. Because once it is done, the west would have a difficult time in corrective action should it turn sour. And that is of an exceptionally grave issue to American Strategic Interest.

I can imagine the better cultured white supremicists putting forward similar arguments against the ending of slavery. One thing for sure. This issue will not be resolved by continuing the failed US policies which only make things worse. And 9/11 demonstrates that left unattended the issues spread. Iraq War. Afghan war. Both are directly attributable to the Israel / Palestine issue.

No matter how you frame it, the Israeli Occupation and Containment process is contributing greatly to the internal security of the surrounding Arab Kingdoms and struggling Arab Democracies. Israel, in many respects, is doing the heavy lifting not just for itself, but for much of the Arab League. The sudden and uncontrolled release of containment could have incalculable repercussions that could spread well beyond the present zone of control.

As Israels debt to the Arab word builds up there is interest to pay. And the concessions will be painful, but not necessarily bloody, if Israel /the US & Europe really address the injustice they have delivered. If not, Israel will be the catalyst to bring genocide back into fashion, as we see even on this board Israel supporters openly advocating genocide against Palestinians and Arabs, and insisting that genocide of Israelis is the only alternative.
Which is just scaremongering, to gain sympathy. Psychotic nuclear powers don't lose wars except through self destruction.

 

[Lipush]

AKA - traitors.

Why traitors? Is Israel an official enemy of the US?

Anyone who puts the interests of a foreign county over their own is a traitor.

I guess I can see your logic.

What about putting foreign interests over their own?

By that reason, many American Muslims are traitors, as well...

 

[marsnow]

Why traitors? Is Israel an official enemy of the US?

Anyone who puts the interests of a foreign county over their own is a traitor.

I guess I can see your logic.

What about putting foreign interests over their own?

By that reason, many American Muslims are traitors, as well...

Lipush you are right... the logic should be applied equally. All peoples of all religions and backgrounds, hindu, muslim whatever -- who want to put the interests of their groups over their nation of citizenship should be called out.