U.S getting spyed on by ally AGAIN?!!!

[Crystalclear]

Well, and the thread starter really thinks that the US doesn't spy on Israel? It's something mutual, most countries spy on each other. Sad thing though.

 

[Kondor3]

So, do we know the object(s) of this Israeli spying?

Are they trying to steal weapons-system secrets?

Are they trying to steal industrial and financial secrets?

Are they trying to figure-out which legislators can be convinced to vote on issues in their favor and which ones cannot?

It's never a good thing, when allegations of Espionage surface, on the part of a friend or ally, but, Lord knows, we do enough of it ourselves, right down to bugging the phones of our allies' own leadership cadres, and those friends, although they get pissed, haven't turned their backs on us.

So long as the Israelis aren't stealing the 'Launch Codes' or 'Disable Codes' or 'Electronic Warfare Defeat Codes' for our nuclear warheads and delivery systems, and selling those, or something sinister like that, I'm not going to push any panic buttons over this, or whip-up a case of Manufactured Angst over the whole thing; preferring, instead, to simply learn how deep the Rabbit Hole goes, and to plug the leaks and gaps, before somebody taps into those whom we DON'T like.

 

[montelatici]

Unbelievable how the Israel Firsters defend Israeli spying. The brainwashing has been effective. If it is industrial/technological it will be in China's hands soon.

"Report: Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China

"Secret U.S. missile and electro-optics technology was transferred to China recently by Israel..."

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2013/12/24/r...s-military-technology-to-china/#ixzz31tEjWbkV
Defense.org

 

[Kondor3]

They're ******* Jews, course they'll take your ******* cash.

You're ******* Muslim, that's only a matter of time till you turni ******* hateful.

Finally after all of the zionist drumming we finally get the true face of Lipush, that of a ******* bigot who will squeal like the victim whenever Israel gets criticiside but believes that a religion of A BILLION people all will "turn hateful".

If it was, indeed, Bigotry, then, it looks like Bigotry used to counterpoint an earlier unprovoked iteration of Bigotry.

 

[RoccoR]

[MENTION=48863]Beelzebub[/MENTION], [MENTION=28132]Dot Com[/MENTION], et al,

I don't believe that most people understand the world of Intelligence or Counterintelligence to any degree of sophistication. It is often simplified to something on the order our friend "Beelzebub" expresses.

And the industrial / military espionage is aimed not only at taking expensively developed US secrets for Israeli use, but to sell on the world market too. A nice little earner, that one.

If Russia were to do all that, it would move the US to a virtual war footing.
If Britain were to do all that, it would be stomped on so hard it would run away to the busom of the EU, crying.
Israel does it, and ex US military on this board, smile and say: "Aww. Ain't Israel just cute."

Go figure ...

(COMMENT)

The strategies for both are very different. Yet the method and means of accomplishment are very similar. Most people, when they read an Article like that of Newsweek - Israel’s Aggressive Spying in the U.S. Mostly Hushed Up (By Jeff Stein Filed: 5/8/14) - as linked in the initial Post #1 of this thread, simply follow the author (who is very good and seemingly straight forward) in the story line without asking the basic interrogatives or applying any critical thought. For instance (and not meaning to picking on our friend "Dot Com" in particular) was the phrase:

• American counter-intelligence officials told members of the House Judiciary and Foreign Affairs committees at the end of January that Israel's current espionage activities in America are "unrivaled and unseemly," going far beyond the activities of other close allies, such as Germany, France, the U.K. and Japan.

In order for this statement to have any credibility at all, the Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive (NCIX) would have to have the necessary data on the level of intensity, the magnitude, and the strength of the of the foreign intelligence operations targeting the US by other close allies (such as Germany, France, the U.K. and Japan) in order to make such a comparative statement with what they know about Israeli operations; and what they are taking away successfully.

Since most people only know what they read in open source material on the INT's [HUMINT (Human Intelligence), SIGINT (Signals Intelligence), IMINT (Imagery Intelligence)] and very little about the separate and distinct CI (50 USC 401a Counterintelligence) aspect, they have difficulty understanding the scope and nature of the Israeli intelligence effort as compared with the efforts put forth by other nations like China, Russia, or even non-state actors.

In CI, which are the activities conducted, to protect against espionage, other intelligence activities, sabotage, or assassinations conducted by or on behalf of foreign governments or elements thereof, foreign organizations, or foreign persons, or international terrorist activities; we use the term "DEN" - detection, exploitation, and neutralization.

(THE BIG QUESTION)

Let us assume that NCIX does make a credible statement --- and indeed - it has a pulse on the heart-beat of foreign intelligence targeting on the US, then the question becomes, if they know so much (the "D" in DEN), what is preventing them from the exploitation or neutralization phase?

AH, they cannot tell you --- because ongoing operations are classified to protect sensitive sources and methods --- as well as --- the information derived from --- such CI Operations. And if that is the case, then the US may - in fact - receiving a better benefit in the exploitation phase then it derives from the neutralization effort. In which case we get more back in the INT 'vs' CI confrontation than we lose.

On the other hand, if the NCIX doesn't have a pulse on the heart-beat of foreign intelligence operations directed against the US by other nations, THEN the initial statement is totally without foundational evidence. With nothing credible to support it. Making the entire matter academic.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Kondor3]

Unbelievable how the Israel Firsters defend Israeli spying. The brainwashing has been effective. If it is industrial/technological it will be in China's hands soon.

"Report: Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China

"Secret U.S. missile and electro-optics technology was transferred to China recently by Israel..."

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2013/12/24/r...s-military-technology-to-china/#ixzz31tEjWbkV
Defense.org

If the Israelis have been selling important classified US military and technology secrets to the Chinese, then, I say, cut off aid to Israeli immediately, and suspend all joint military exercises, etc.

I think I want to see something a little more solid than a blog on a Military.Com amateur-hour website before I reach that level of condemnation, however.

 

[montelatici]

"U.S. Furious With Israel After Sale of Advanced Military Technology to China"

U.S. Furious With Israel After Sale of Advanced Military Technology to China | Jewish & Israel News Algemeiner.com


"ISRAEL SELLS ARMS TO CHINA, U.S. SAYS"

ISRAEL SELLS ARMS TO CHINA, U.S. SAYS - NYTimes.com

"US 'anger' at Israel weapons sale"

The row over weapons sales has caused an atmosphere of suspicion
The Israeli defence ministry has confirmed that it faced questioning by Washington over arms sales to China.

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | US 'anger' at Israel weapons sale

 

[Beelzebub]

those Americans siding with Israel over their own country,

AKA - traitors.

Why traitors? Is Israel an official enemy of the US?

Gotta love that "official" ...


A state that organises its people to steal industrial secrets from America then sell them to America's competitors and enemies, is most definitely an enemy. In all but your term an "official" way.

And, America has sacrificed so much of its treasure and credibility, not to mention the freedoms of its own citizens, on the altar of Israel existence, that Israel should at least show a little loyalty in return.

What is the Israeli position on Crimea again? Oh yes: "A useful example of annexation that Israel would want to support."

 

[Dot Com]

my point is that, if they are going to keep spying on this country & its industries, they need to forego the ANNUAL $3.1 BILLION gift from U.S. taxpayers.

 

[Dot Com]

AKA - traitors.

Why traitors? Is Israel an official enemy of the US?

Gotta love that "official" ...


A state that organises its people to steal industrial secrets from America then sell them to America's competitors and enemies, is most definitely an enemy. In all but your term an "official" way.

And, America has sacrificed so much of its treasure and credibility, not to mention the freedoms of its own citizens, on the altar of Israel existence, that Israel should at least show a little loyalty in return.

What is the Israeli position on Crimea again? Oh yes: "A useful example of annexation that Israel would want to support."

I remember when THIS happened: Report: Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2013/12/24/r...s-military-technology-to-china/#ixzz31tRhfVKR
Defense.org


any repercussions? Of course not because they are out *cough* "ally" With allies like that...

 

[montelatici]

Like the posters here, in Government, many decision makers are Israel Firsters and approve of Israel making money selling U.S. secrets to China and elsewhere, many have Israeli citizenship. Strategically, China is a strong ally for Israel's future. China would be perfectly fine with Israel doing whatever they want with the Palestinians as China wants to do in Tibet. The U.S. could not support genocide and ethnic cleansing which the Israeli Jews who are now in power are probably contemplating.

 

[Beelzebub]

Why traitors? Is Israel an official enemy of the US?

Gotta love that "official" ...


A state that organises its people to steal industrial secrets from America then sell them to America's competitors and enemies, is most definitely an enemy. In all but your term an "official" way.

And, America has sacrificed so much of its treasure and credibility, not to mention the freedoms of its own citizens, on the altar of Israel existence, that Israel should at least show a little loyalty in return.

What is the Israeli position on Crimea again? Oh yes: "A useful example of annexation that Israel would want to support."

I remember when THIS happened: Report: Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2013/12/24/r...s-military-technology-to-china/#ixzz31tRhfVKR
Defense.org


any repercussions? Of course not because they are out *cough* "ally" With allies like that...

Might be some repercussions now though.
[MENTION=20204]Kondor3[/MENTION] is threatening to cut off aid and ALL JOINT MILITARY EXERCISES with Israel.
Of course, he might just forgive them.

I am sure he will find some excuse to continue supporting the betrayal of America.

 

[montelatici]

Gotta love that "official" ...


A state that organises its people to steal industrial secrets from America then sell them to America's competitors and enemies, is most definitely an enemy. In all but your term an "official" way.

And, America has sacrificed so much of its treasure and credibility, not to mention the freedoms of its own citizens, on the altar of Israel existence, that Israel should at least show a little loyalty in return.

What is the Israeli position on Crimea again? Oh yes: "A useful example of annexation that Israel would want to support."

I remember when THIS happened: Report: Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2013/12/24/r...s-military-technology-to-china/#ixzz31tRhfVKR
Defense.org


any repercussions? Of course not because they are out *cough* "ally" With allies like that...

Might be some repercussions now though.
[MENTION=20204]Kondor3[/MENTION] is threatening to cut off aid and ALL JOINT MILITARY EXERCISES with Israel.
Of course, he might just forgive them.

I am sure he will find some excuse to continue supporting the betrayal of America.

For sure, they are Israel Firsters after all.

 

[Kondor3]

Gotta love that "official" ...


A state that organises its people to steal industrial secrets from America then sell them to America's competitors and enemies, is most definitely an enemy. In all but your term an "official" way.

And, America has sacrificed so much of its treasure and credibility, not to mention the freedoms of its own citizens, on the altar of Israel existence, that Israel should at least show a little loyalty in return.

What is the Israeli position on Crimea again? Oh yes: "A useful example of annexation that Israel would want to support."

I remember when THIS happened: Report: Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2013/12/24/r...s-military-technology-to-china/#ixzz31tRhfVKR
Defense.org


any repercussions? Of course not because they are out *cough* "ally" With allies like that...

Might be some repercussions now though.
[MENTION=20204]Kondor3[/MENTION] is threatening to cut off aid and ALL JOINT MILITARY EXERCISES with Israel.
Of course, he might just forgive them.

I am sure he will find some excuse to continue supporting the betrayal of America.

Feel free to proceed to blow it out your ass at your earliest convenience,

Sent from my HP 7 using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

 

[montelatici]

I remember when THIS happened: Report: Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2013/12/24/r...s-military-technology-to-china/#ixzz31tRhfVKR
Defense.org


any repercussions? Of course not because they are out *cough* "ally" With allies like that...

Might be some repercussions now though.
[MENTION=20204]Kondor3[/MENTION] is threatening to cut off aid and ALL JOINT MILITARY EXERCISES with Israel.
Of course, he might just forgive them.

I am sure he will find some excuse to continue supporting the betrayal of America.

Feel free to proceed to blow it out your ass at your earliest convenience,

Sent from my HP 7 using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

So, does that indicate that you approve of the spying?

 

[Sally]

Might be some repercussions now though.
[MENTION=20204]Kondor3[/MENTION] is threatening to cut off aid and ALL JOINT MILITARY EXERCISES with Israel.
Of course, he might just forgive them.

I am sure he will find some excuse to continue supporting the betrayal of America.

Feel free to proceed to blow it out your ass at your earliest convenience,

Sent from my HP 7 using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

So, does that indicate that you approve of the spying?

Hagel says he is not aware of Israel spying on U.S | Nation | Jewish Journal

 

[marsnow]

Hagel says he is not aware of Israel spying on U.S | Nation | Jewish Journal

Hagel's words are indicative "not aware" rather than not true. Israel would be guilty of gross negligence if they did not spy on the US. All states do. The question is does Israel cross red lines against its greatest funder and supporter?

 

[montelatici]

Feel free to proceed to blow it out your ass at your earliest convenience,

Sent from my HP 7 using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

So, does that indicate that you approve of the spying?

Hagel says he is not aware of Israel spying on U.S | Nation | Jewish Journal

He doesn't want to end up like Kerry.

 

[montelatici]

"WASHINGTON -- The State Department declined to refute reports that Israel regularly spies on the United States, and has for decades, after claims of expansive intelligence activity surfaced in the press last week."

US State Department does not deny reports of 'unrivaled' Israeli spying | JPost | Israel News

 

[marsnow]

"WASHINGTON -- The State Department declined to refute reports that Israel regularly spies on the United States, and has for decades, after claims of expansive intelligence activity surfaced in the press last week."

US State Department does not deny reports of 'unrivaled' Israeli spying | JPost | Israel News

Of course Israel spies on the US, there's no point in engaging with people who truly believe a state with so much at stake in US decision making would not spy on the US. More importantly, does the spying cause undue influence on US decision making? Does the spying mean technology is transferred that the US would otherwise not want to share?