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CDZ Two options...the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse.

Likkmee

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In mewrrykuh-stan 2 options.
1.Shoot. Kill. Call da po-po and tell 'em no hurry.
2. Lock the screen door call the pop-po and scream while they tell you
" calms down nigga! I dun told ya nigga quitz screamin or I can't do shit ! What yo name, address, telefone number,email, date of birth, you bevaxxed ? Please confirmz whilez I B repeatin N shit and what color da crib be"

" Nigga hung up. Probably a prank call. Now I gots to send officer Washingon anyhoo. He gonna B pissed. Donut time ryte now. Nigga B prankin and Washington B spankin ! Troo dat !"

I prefer option one with a 12 ga. blast to the head every 10 minutes until they get there to be sure. Make sure you have several boxes.

Europe doesn't have crime. That's " Iniquely 'murkin"
 

BULLDOG

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So.....since 1939 if we average the number of gun murders in the U.S. by criminals with guns...it would be about 10,000 a year.

Of those murdered each year 70-80% of the victims are criminals murdered by other criminals.

Over the 81 year period today that would be 810,000 people, mostly criminals.

In the 6 year period between 1939 and the liberation of Europe in 1945.....the German socialists murdered about 12 million innocent men, women and children...

Not criminals...innocents. Who did nothing wrong.....12 million murdered by the government of Germany with the help of most of the governments of Europe.

So over 81 years, our criminals, with illegal guns can't even come close to the governments of Europe in killing innocent people....
Wow. Trying to compare our crime rate with every war in Europe over 81 years. I'm not sure if that is the most ridiculous crap you have come up with, but it's damn near the top.
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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So everyone shot in Vegas would have survived if they had a gun?

The solution is kevlar battle gear.


Nope......the rare exception......he was firing from over 400 yards away. Had they not been trapped in the concert area more would also have survived...

This points out the main fact of mass public shootings......the target location, not the weapon, is creates the murder rate.

As this weeks shooting at the Kroger shows, and the Vegas shooting....mass public shooters do one of three things as soon as someone points a gun at them or is getting close to them with a gun..

1) they commit suicide

2) they surrender

3) they run away.


The Vegas shooter shot himself, as did the Kroger shooter, as did the Sandy Hook shooter ....as soon as men with guns approached..........


The way you save lives in a mass public shooting is to get a good guy with a gun pointing that gun at the shooter.....then they go into one of the 3 reactions....

The longer that takes, the more people are killed in the gun free zones.

The Vegas shooter shot himself as the police began to close in on his room...men with guns.
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Wow. Trying to compare our crime rate with every war in Europe over 81 years. I'm not sure if that is the most ridiculous crap you have come up with, but it's damn near the top.


Not every war in Europe.......6 years in Europe.....innocent civilians murdered....12 million of them....versus 81 years of criminals with guns murdering mostly other criminals..

Europe did what you wanted....they banned and confiscated guns...using the same promises you make....turn them in and we will keep you safe...

They registered guns in the 1920s and then began to confiscate them.....by 1939 the Germans began murdering innocent men, women and children in huge numbers........and then the governments of Europe began handing over their own innocent men, women and children to be murdered........

All after they took guns away from their people....

The place where this didn't happen?

Switzerland....all the other countries did what you wanted.....they registered guns, then confiscated them..........then 12 million people were murdered by their governments...

THE SWISS WERE PREPARED TO FIGHT FACISM TO THE BITTER END | FRONTLINE | PBS

That is why the Nazis despised Switzerland. Joseph Goebbels called Switzerland "this stinking little state" where "sentiment has turned very much against us." Adolf Hitler decided that "all the rubbish of small nations still existing in Europe must be liquidated," even if it meant he would later "be attacked as the 'Butcher of the Swiss.'"

The 1940 Nazi invasion plan, Operation Tannenbaum, was not executed, and SS Oberst Hermann Bohme's 1943 memorandum warned that an invasion of Switzerland would be too costly because every man was armed and trained to shoot.

This did not stop the Gestapo from preparing lists of Swiss to be liquidated once the Nazis overran the country.

The other European nations were easily toppled and had little means to wage a partisan war against the occupation. Once their standing armies were defeated, the governments capitulated and the populaces were defenseless.

Only in Switzerland was the entire populace armed and prepared to wage a relentless guerrilla war against an invader. When the war began in 1939, Switzerland mobilized 435,000 citizen soldiers out of a population of 4.2 million.

Production figures for Swiss service rifles, which had firepower equal to those of the Germans, demonstrate an ample supply of small arms. Swiss militiamen were instructed to disregard any alleged "official" surrender as enemy propaganda and, if necessary, to fight individually. This meant that a nation of sharpshooters would be sniping at German soldiers at long ranges from every mountain.

While neutral, Switzerland was prepared to fight a Nazi invasion to the end. The celebrated Swiss Gen. Henri Guisan developed the strategy known as defense du reduit--an initial opposition followed by a retreat into the Alps, where a relentless war to the death would be waged. Most Swiss strongly opposed Nazism. Death sentences were issued for fifth-column activities, and proclamations against anti-Semitism were passed at various official levels. There was no Holocaust on Swiss soil, something that can not be said for France, the Netherlands, Poland or most of Europe.

 
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2aguy

2aguy

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How come your way didn’t work in the old west? Where everyone had a gun.


It did work in the old west....you watch too many Hollywood movies....

The truth....

Most of the gun control laws in the Old West, if they existed at all, had nothing to do with confiscation or restrictions on gun type. They had more to do with gun use by restricting and prohibiting firing pistols in city streets. And, while few opponents of gun control today would object to limitations on discharging firearms in a busy intersection, gun control laws of this extent were largely unheard of in most American cities. In fact, they were even unusual in the Old West, and using the gun control ordinance from Tombstone as an example, they were proven ineffective.
-----

There were other frontier towns with gun control restrictions similar to Tombstone. Most made it unlawful to carry in the hand or upon the person any deadly weapon within the limits of said city, without first obtaining a permit in writing. But, in those towns, as in Tombstone, in the closest equivalents to a “gun-free zone” in the 19th century, such gun control measures did little to stem gun violence, and likely provoked the infamous kerfuffle at the O.K. Corral.
----

Lots of guns, not a lot of crime

Mass violence, like what took place at the O.K. Corral, was actually infrequent. Moreover, the Old West reputation for lawlessness is unwarranted, despite, at times, an elevated number of homicides.

Crime such as rape and robberies occurred at a much lower rate than in modern America — certainly lower than in the 1970s and 1980s, when the nation was wracked by a surge in criminality. It is also worth noting that crime and gun violence has fallen steeply since the 1990s, even as gun ownership has increased dramatically.


 

Likkmee

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In mewrrykuh-stan 2 options.
1.Shoot. Kill. Call da po-po and tell 'em no hurry.
2. Lock the screen door call the pop-po and scream while they tell you
" calms down nigga! I dun told ya nigga quitz screamin or I can't do shit ! What yo name, address, telefone number,email, date of birth, you bevaxxed ? Please confirmz whilez I B repeatin N shit and what color da crib be"

" Nigga hung up. Probably a prank call. Now I gots to send officer Washingon anyhoo. He gonna B pissed. Donut time ryte now. Nigga B prankin and Washington B spankin ! Troo dat !"

I prefer option one with a 12 ga. blast to the head every 10 minutes until they get there to be sure. Make sure you have several boxes.

Europe doesn't have crime. That's " Iniquely 'murkin"
OOPS. Option 3
Miami-Dade Poicia y emegencias
Para Espanol toca 1
Para Haitian-Dominican-Jamaican creole prensa 2
Para Hebrew tocar tres por favor.
Para Portuguese clique cuatro
For others press the pound sign to hear this message again
 

sealybobo

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Nope......the rare exception......he was firing from over 400 yards away. Had they not been trapped in the concert area more would also have survived...

This points out the main fact of mass public shootings......the target location, not the weapon, is creates the murder rate.

As this weeks shooting at the Kroger shows, and the Vegas shooting....mass public shooters do one of three things as soon as someone points a gun at them or is getting close to them with a gun..

1) they commit suicide

2) they surrender

3) they run away.


The Vegas shooter shot himself, as did the Kroger shooter, as did the Sandy Hook shooter ....as soon as men with guns approached..........


The way you save lives in a mass public shooting is to get a good guy with a gun pointing that gun at the shooter.....then they go into one of the 3 reactions....

The longer that takes, the more people are killed in the gun free zones.

The Vegas shooter shot himself as the police began to close in on his room...men with guns.
I have a ruler 450 bushmaster holds 4 bullets. The only reason you want more than that is to protect yourself from someone who might have a bigger gun too. Slippery slope. What’s the cut off? If the government has ray guns or later guns do you want the citizens to have them too?
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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How come your way didn’t work in the old west? Where everyone had a gun.


Now, a few questions for you....

How do you explain the fact that as more Americans owned and carried guns, our gun murder rate went down 49% and our gun crime rate went down 75%......?

Care to explain?

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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How come your way didn’t work in the old west? Where everyone had a gun.


Two more questions....

1) A woman is about to be dragged from a train platform, a bus station, or a rapist is in her home/apartment......should she have the right to own and carry a gun to stop that rape?

2) A woman stops a rape with a gun, in a public space....if you had the ability to go back in time, and prevent her from having that gun...would you?
 

sealybobo

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It did work in the old west....you watch too many Hollywood movies....

The truth....

Most of the gun control laws in the Old West, if they existed at all, had nothing to do with confiscation or restrictions on gun type. They had more to do with gun use by restricting and prohibiting firing pistols in city streets. And, while few opponents of gun control today would object to limitations on discharging firearms in a busy intersection, gun control laws of this extent were largely unheard of in most American cities. In fact, they were even unusual in the Old West, and using the gun control ordinance from Tombstone as an example, they were proven ineffective.
-----

There were other frontier towns with gun control restrictions similar to Tombstone. Most made it unlawful to carry in the hand or upon the person any deadly weapon within the limits of said city, without first obtaining a permit in writing. But, in those towns, as in Tombstone, in the closest equivalents to a “gun-free zone” in the 19th century, such gun control measures did little to stem gun violence, and likely provoked the infamous kerfuffle at the O.K. Corral.
----

Lots of guns, not a lot of crime

Mass violence, like what took place at the O.K. Corral, was actually infrequent. Moreover, the Old West reputation for lawlessness is unwarranted, despite, at times, an elevated number of homicides.

Crime such as rape and robberies occurred at a much lower rate than in modern America — certainly lower than in the 1970s and 1980s, when the nation was wracked by a surge in criminality. It is also worth noting that crime and gun violence has fallen steeply since the 1990s, even as gun ownership has increased dramatically.


Yea but the fact is when a town got out of control, they banned guns from those towns. Th solution wasn’t more guns.

Most towns didnt have lawlessness. So fine bring your guns to town. NYC says no guns today. The modern day tombstone
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Yea but the fact is when a town got out of control, they banned guns from those towns. Th solution wasn’t more guns.

Most towns didnt have lawlessness. So fine bring your guns to town. NYC says no guns today. The modern day tombstone

The bans....as the article stated...didn't work.

Notice, in Tombstone, the one place you guys all try to point to.....the criminals ignored the gun control laws......and murdered one of the Earp brothers, and maimed another......Doc Holiday....completely ignored those rules.....

Really? You are using NYC as an example?

The Spike in Shootings During the Pandemic May Outlast the Virus

About 505 people were shot in New York City through May 9, the highest year-to-date number in a decade.



 

sealybobo

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Now, a few questions for you....

How do you explain the fact that as more Americans owned and carried guns, our gun murder rate went down 49% and our gun crime rate went down 75%......?

Care to explain?

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
Do you really think criminals stopped being criminals when more people got guns?

If so, if criminals get the word, why do criminals today continue to commit crimes when we have cameras everywhere? And did dna advances make criminals stop doing crime?

I wonder how many times a good guy with a gun stops a criminal or how much gun sales have scared them.

I don’t mind everyone having a gun. Just register them. And when you sell a gun, you have to tell the cops. I did.
 

sealybobo

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The bans....as the article stated...didn't work.

Notice, in Tombstone, the one place you guys all try to point to.....the criminals ignored the gun control laws......and murdered one of the Earp brothers, and maimed another......Doc Holiday....completely ignored those rules.....

Really? You are using NYC as an example?

The Spike in Shootings During the Pandemic May Outlast the Virus

About 505 people were shot in New York City through May 9, the highest year-to-date number in a decade.



I’m not against good people being allowed to carry guns
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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I have a ruler 450 bushmaster holds 4 bullets. The only reason you want more than that is to protect yourself from someone who might have a bigger gun too. Slippery slope. What’s the cut off? If the government has ray guns or later guns do you want the citizens to have them too?


There are two guys...you miss with the first 3 ............we don't believe the government gets to tell us how many "shots," we have at saving ourselves and our families.......

And yes....whatever basic rifle and pistols the military and police have the people need to have them too........just ask the Germans, French, and the rest of Europe that handed over their people for mass murder in the 1930s-1945
 

sealybobo

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There are two guys...you miss with the first 3 ............we don't believe the government gets to tell us how many "shots," we have at saving ourselves and our families.......

And yes....whatever basic rifle and pistols the military and police have the people need to have them too........just ask the Germans, French, and the rest of Europe that handed over their people for mass murder in the 1930s-1945
Everyone should have a device where if they pushed the button everyone around them in a 1 mile radius would b dead. Right?
 
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2aguy

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Do you really think criminals stopped being criminals when more people got guns?

If so, if criminals get the word, why do criminals today continue to commit crimes when we have cameras everywhere? And did dna advances make criminals stop doing crime?

I wonder how many times a good guy with a gun stops a criminal or how much gun sales have scared them.

I don’t mind everyone having a gun. Just register them. And when you sell a gun, you have to tell the cops. I did.


Criminals break the law, and they will attack people....they stop attacking the individuals who point guns at them....

So if you want to be robbed, raped, beaten, stabbed or murdered.....and not have a gun to stop it...go for it....

You just don't have a Right to make that decision for the other 330 million Americans....

Meanwhile....according to the Centers for Disease Control, Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, beatings, stabbings and murders.....

Just recently, the 2021 Firearms survey put that number at 1.67 million times a year....

I notice you didn't answer any of my questions.....afraid?

How do you explain the fact that as more Americans owned and carried guns, our gun murder rate went down 49% and our gun crime rate went down 75%......?

Care to explain?

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bu

Two more questions....

1) A woman is about to be dragged from a train platform, a bus station, or a rapist is in her home/apartment......should she have the right to own and carry a gun to stop that rape?

2) A woman stops a rape with a gun, in a public space....if you had the ability to go back in time, and prevent her from having that gun...would you?
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Everyone should have a device where if they pushed the button everyone around them in a 1 mile radius would b dead. Right?


You have lost.....you can't answer the questions I have posed...so now you devolve into silly posts like that....

Your surrender is noted....
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Do you really think criminals stopped being criminals when more people got guns?

If so, if criminals get the word, why do criminals today continue to commit crimes when we have cameras everywhere? And did dna advances make criminals stop doing crime?

I wonder how many times a good guy with a gun stops a criminal or how much gun sales have scared them.

I don’t mind everyone having a gun. Just register them. And when you sell a gun, you have to tell the cops. I did.


I wonder how many times a good guy with a gun stops a criminal or how much gun sales have scared them.

I gave you the overall numbers for defensive gun use in the U.S........now, for mass public shootings where the victims have their legal, guns.....

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.


BREAKING: Man Opens Fire At Oklahoma Walmart, Confronted By Armed Citizen, Report Says

Two people were killed at a Walmart in Oklahoma by a man who opened fire in the parking lot on Monday before turning the weapon on himself after an armed citizen confronted him.
------


The assailant, who has not yet been identified, shot and killed a man and a woman in the parking lot and when he was “confronted by an armed citizen, he then turned the gun on himself,” The Daily Mail reported.
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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I’m not against good people being allowed to carry guns


And yet, people like you always say that....followed by extreme laws that would actually prevent that.


And you still didn't answer my questions...
 

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