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CDZ Two options...the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse.

GLASNOST

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America has chosen death by gun and there's no prospects for changing that in sight.
Definitely true.
The 'big' gunfight between the political sides could come in the foreseeable future and the spilt blood could cause all Americans to step back and see the situation in another light.
It does look like it is the only way for a "step back". The only question is what will be the outcome? Peace or even more guns?
 

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Guns in the US and How they are Used:

Guns.jpg
 

Colin norris

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In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

You've used a broad brush to say something for which there is no evidence. Their guns have not been taken away. They decided they did need them to protect themselves from Rambos like you. They can all acquire guns. You're not privileged to have a 2nd that allows unlimited guns. With the deaths from any gun violence proves there are too many.
Of course you don't agree. Most guns are extensions of egos and a masculine thing.
How many times have you defended yourself or had you home broken into and used a gun? I'll bet never. That is a very poor excuse to justify a gun.
As for hunting don't make me laugh.
Most Americans have trouble finding a KFC let alone an animal to eat.
 
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2aguy

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* I posted the chart showing that 288 school shootings took place in the U.S.
* You said it was not true and that I had no evidence.
* So I linked the evidence.
* You now say you "don't need to look at the evidence"

* You said that I am a coward.
* I told you that I am a war veteran and that I have experience.
* Now you say "lots of people have war experience" and you think it's connected to "freedom or Rights" ..... bla, bla-bla, bla-bla.

You are just wasting time.

I told you that they include suicides, in the school parkimg lot, after school hours as school shootings y..and doing that they show they are a dishonest source.
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Guns in the US and How they are Used:

View attachment 543936

And you dont include the 1.2 million times a year that guns are used to save lives from rape, beatings, stabbings, robbery and murder…. According to the Centers for disease control. Lives saved by guns.
 
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2aguy

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Ivan88

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Under the Articles of Confederation, American Men had the right to forcibly regulate their public servants and use weapons to do so, if necessary.
Then our glorious peoples leaders made a Constitution to stop that.
And over the last 121 years our glorious peoples leaders have murdered hundreds of millions of people around the world, have weapons to murder and destroy whole nations, and they lust to disarm the American People.
So here we are arguing with pseudo intelligent people who are allied with our glorious peoples leaders hoping to disarm the American People even more than they already have been disarmed.

Disarming our glorious peoples leaders is more peaceful than anything those peoples leaders can dream of, if they even have good dreams.
 
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GLASNOST

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2aguy You are whistling in the dark.

guns 2.jpg
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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2aguy You are whistling in the dark.

View attachment 543985

Each year, according to the Centers for Disease Control Americans use their legal Guns 1.2 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, beatings, stabbings and murder……or 1.5 million times accordimg to the Department of Justice….or 1.67 million times according to the 2021 Firearms Survey.

And those who are shot each day?

70-80% percent of the victims are criminals…..do you understand that?

And of the rest? The majority of them are the friends, family and associates of those criminals shot in the crossfire of those criminals.

So you dont understand the issues around gun ownership…
 
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GLASNOST

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I wonder how many lives are taken by guns in the US because they were used to prevent someone from stealing a car, shoplifting a loaf of bread, sleeping with someone’s cheating wife, stepping on someone’s lawn, disagreeing on the weather, “taking” someone’s parking space, for overtaking on the motorway, being black in a “white neighbourhood”, being white in a “black neighbourhood”, or verbally insulting someone.

And then there is the homicide rate in general. Americans are the last people on earth who should have guns or any weapons at all.

homiside.jpg
 
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2aguy

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I wonder how many lives are taken by guns in the US because they were used to prevent someone from stealing a car, shoplifting a loaf of bread, sleeping with someone’s cheating wife, stepping on someone’s lawn, disagreeing on the weather, “taking” someone’s parking space, for overtaking on the motorway, being black in a “white neighbourhood”, being white in a “black neighbourhood”, or verbally insulting someone.

And then there is the homicide rate in general. Americans are the last people on earth who should have guns or any weapons at all.

View attachment 544002


Yeah....not as many as the criminals who the democrat party keep releasing no matter how many times they are caught with illegal guns and using illegal guns for crime....

Again......

Americans use their legal guns 1.2 million times a year to save lives....

Do you understand that? This is according to the Centers for Disease Control...

The Department of Justice puts the number at 1.5 million times a year....

Of the gun murder victims in this country, 70-80% of them are criminals......engaged in crime......living the criminals life style....and of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals, shot by mistake or in the crossfire as the criminal is shot at by other criminals....

If the democrat party would stop releasing gun criminals from jail and prison, and would stop reducing the sentences for gun criminals, then our gun crime rate would drop by about 95%.....

Can you explain why the democrat party keeps releasing known gun offenders.....offenders caught with illegal guns.....caught shooting those illegal guns....caught shooting people...

Can you explain why they keep releasing them no matter how often they commit crimes with guns?
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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I wonder how many lives are taken by guns in the US because they were used to prevent someone from stealing a car, shoplifting a loaf of bread, sleeping with someone’s cheating wife, stepping on someone’s lawn, disagreeing on the weather, “taking” someone’s parking space, for overtaking on the motorway, being black in a “white neighbourhood”, being white in a “black neighbourhood”, or verbally insulting someone.

And then there is the homicide rate in general. Americans are the last people on earth who should have guns or any weapons at all.

View attachment 544002


Asia....the Japanese murdered 3 million people during the war...not war dead.....men, women and children murdered .....

The German socialists and the other european governments murdered 12 million people...

So...over the 82 years between 1939 and 2021......averaging 10,000 gun murders a year, American criminals...murdering mostly other criminals murdered 820,000 people...

over an 81 year period....

While on Average 1.2 million times a year Americans used guns to stop criminals and save lives...

During the 6 year period of 1939-1945 governments murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children..........

Can you tell which numbers are bigger?
 
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2aguy

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I wonder how many lives are taken by guns in the US because they were used to prevent someone from stealing a car, shoplifting a loaf of bread, sleeping with someone’s cheating wife, stepping on someone’s lawn, disagreeing on the weather, “taking” someone’s parking space, for overtaking on the motorway, being black in a “white neighbourhood”, being white in a “black neighbourhood”, or verbally insulting someone.

And then there is the homicide rate in general. Americans are the last people on earth who should have guns or any weapons at all.

View attachment 544002


So.....answer these questions....

1) A woman is about to be dragged from a bus stop, or dragged from a train platform to be brutally beaten, raped and murdered....should she be able to carry a gun to stop the rape and murder?

2) A woman stops a rapist from beating, raping and murdering her....you have the ability to go back in time.....do you take that gun away from her before the attack?

You anti-gun extremists never answer those questions? Will you?

Then...please go on to explain how it is that as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%......over a 27 year period....

How do you explain that?

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

1) the democrat party keeps releasing violent gun offenders...they have created a revolving door for criminals who use guns, and will release even the most serious gun offenders over and over again....why? Probably because they realise that normal people don't use their guns for crime, so if they want to push gun control, they need criminals to shoot people.....so they keep releasing them....

2) The democrat party keeps attacking the police.....driving the officers into not doing pro-active policing, cutting detective forces so that murders go unsolved..........
 

GLASNOST

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The US Needs More Guns! (Because maybe a woman is about to be dragged from a bus stop, or dragged from a train platform to be brutally beaten, raped and murdered) Take no chances!:Boom2:

Gun Deaths in US.jpg
 

Donald H

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Definitely true.

It does look like it is the only way for a "step back". The only question is what will be the outcome? Peace or even more guns?
A good question!
But guns would be secondary to the potential damage that will be done by Trump if he's not stopped. The unimaginable nuclear threat has become imaginable.

Both the CIA and the FBI are almost certainly involved in schemes to stop him before he gets his hands on the nuclear button. The insanity of Trump and his supporters doesn't inflict intelligent people who bear a responsibility to their country. Even if some agent needs to fall on his sword!
 
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2aguy

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The US Needs More Guns! (Because maybe a woman is about to be dragged from a bus stop, or dragged from a train platform to be brutally beaten, raped and murdered) Take no chances!:Boom2:

View attachment 544065


Do you know what caused those gun deaths.....?

No, you don't...or you do and you are going to not point it out...

For 27 years Americans bought guns, owned them and carried them in higher and higher numbers.....

What happened to crime as they did this?

Gun crime went down 75%...

Gun murder went down 49%

Can you explain this?

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

So why did gun crime and murder go up after the decline for 27 years?

In 2015 the democrat party declared war on local police.......it escalated to the point they burned and looted cities for 7months, murdered over 40 people wounding over 400 police officers, and burned court houses and police stations....all while telling the police not to stop the blm and antifa, democrat party terrorists, attempting to cut police funding and demonizing our police officers as killers...

The police stopped active policing and began to only respond to 911 calls.......and the criminals, the protected class of the democrat party, responded by carrying guns and shooting each other in larger numbers than we have seen since 1960s....

It’s something but I still think the Times is downplaying the obvious a bit. Here’s the chart of the monthly murder rate. What you’ll see is that the first month where the murder rate started to spike above the average in previous years was May. Why in May? Because George Floyd was killed on May 25th and by the next day the video was going viral. The final weekend of May became a weekend of violent protests which pushed the monthly numbers out of orbit. And from there the murder rate continued to go up as sometimes violent anti-police protests were taking place around the country:


murder-spike-e1632350349602.jpg


Why would the death of George Floyd be connected with a wave of violence? I think the answer to that has to do with the nature of the protests, which were explicitly hostile to police. Police pulled back as protesters created autonomous zones in some cities.


It was basically the Ferguson Effect all on a national scale.

As police pulled back, criminals had less fear of consequences and also, some people felt more inclined to seek street justice rather than call the police when a disagreement arose. That’s the “increased distrust” mentioned above. The protests last year didn’t have to actually defund police departments in order to have a significant impact on the behavior of both cops and criminals.
----
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Portland had some of the most consistent and most violent protests last year and also lost a lot of officers to retirement and resignations. Portland was a worst case scenario for the connection between anti-police protests and increased violence and the numbers seem to reflect that.

FBI: Murder rose by 29% last year with the biggest spike coming after the death of George Floyd (Update)

Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebuttingthe charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

Crime Rates in Largest U.S. Cities Continue to Drop

Crime in the 30 largest U.S. cities is estimated to have declined in 2018, with decreases in the rates of violent crime, murder, and overall crime, according to a new Brennan Center analysis of the available data.

Murder rates in particular were down by 8 percent from 2017, a significant drop. 2018 marks the second straight year that murder rates have fallen, too, after increases in 2015 and 2016.


Overall, however, U.S. crime rates have dropped dramatically since peaking in 1991.
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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The US Needs More Guns! (Because maybe a woman is about to be dragged from a bus stop, or dragged from a train platform to be brutally beaten, raped and murdered) Take no chances!:Boom2:

View attachment 544065


You did not answer my questions.....

They are easy questions to answer...you refused to answer them.....I know why you didn't...but it is just another example of anti-gunners refusing to confront the reality of their policies....
 

GLASNOST

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..... For 27 years Americans bought guns, owned them and carried them in higher and higher numbers.....

What happened to crime as they did this?

Gun crime went down 75%...

Gun murder went down 49%

Overall, however, U.S. crime rates have dropped dramatically since peaking in 1991.
Yeah, it really looks like gun crime is "going down". :laughing0301:

US Gun deaths.jpg
 
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2aguy

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Yeah, it really looks like gun crime is "going down". :laughing0301:

View attachment 544189
Yeah, it really looks like gun crime is "going down". :laughing0301:

View attachment 544189


You did not answer the questions....I know why you didn't.......you can't answer them honestly.....

Do you know what caused those gun deaths.....?

No, you don't...or you do and you are going to not point it out...

For 27 years Americans bought guns, owned them and carried them in higher and higher numbers.....

What happened to crime as they did this?

Gun crime went down 75%...

Gun murder went down 49%

Can you explain this?

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

So why did gun crime and murder go up after the decline for 27 years?

In 2015 the democrat party declared war on local police.......it escalated to the point they burned and looted cities for 7months, murdered over 40 people wounding over 400 police officers, and burned court houses and police stations....all while telling the police not to stop the blm and antifa, democrat party terrorists, attempting to cut police funding and demonizing our police officers as killers...

The police stopped active policing and began to only respond to 911 calls.......and the criminals, the protected class of the democrat party, responded by carrying guns and shooting each other in larger numbers than we have seen since 1960s....

It’s something but I still think the Times is downplaying the obvious a bit. Here’s the chart of the monthly murder rate. What you’ll see is that the first month where the murder rate started to spike above the average in previous years was May. Why in May? Because George Floyd was killed on May 25th and by the next day the video was going viral. The final weekend of May became a weekend of violent protests which pushed the monthly numbers out of orbit. And from there the murder rate continued to go up as sometimes violent anti-police protests were taking place around the country:


murder-spike-e1632350349602.jpg


Why would the death of George Floyd be connected with a wave of violence? I think the answer to that has to do with the nature of the protests, which were explicitly hostile to police. Police pulled back as protesters created autonomous zones in some cities.


It was basically the Ferguson Effect all on a national scale.

As police pulled back, criminals had less fear of consequences and also, some people felt more inclined to seek street justice rather than call the police when a disagreement arose. That’s the “increased distrust” mentioned above. The protests last year didn’t have to actually defund police departments in order to have a significant impact on the behavior of both cops and criminals.
----
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Portland had some of the most consistent and most violent protests last year and also lost a lot of officers to retirement and resignations. Portland was a worst case scenario for the connection between anti-police protests and increased violence and the numbers seem to reflect that.
FBI: Murder rose by 29% last year with the biggest spike coming after the death of George Floyd (Update)


Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebuttingthe charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.
Click to expand...
Crime Rates in Largest U.S. Cities Continue to Drop

Crime in the 30 largest U.S. cities is estimated to have declined in 2018, with decreases in the rates of violent crime, murder, and overall crime, according to a new Brennan Center analysis of the available data.

Murder rates in particular were down by 8 percent from 2017, a significant drop. 2018 marks the second straight year that murder rates have fallen, too, after increases in 2015 and 2016.


Overall, however, U.S. crime rates have dropped dramatically since peaking in 1991.
 

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