CDZ Two options...the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse.

[Plow Boy]

Yet the preferred weapon when going on a rampage is an assault rifle.

What’s your answer to it then? My answer is to get my own rifle or shotgun or pistol. What’s your answer?

 

[BULLDOG]

Individual sellers are not supplying criminals.....you know this, you have been shown this...your goal is gun registration which is why you push universal background checks...as RetiredGySgt. pointed out in post #461

Licensed dealers have all kinda federal paperwork in regards what firearms they have and are for sale. That precludes them from NOT doing background checks. A private seller has no foot print in the fed system so there is no way with out universal registration to see whether or not private sales have back ground checks.

You know this, but you need gun registration before you try to ban and confiscate guns..

Straw buyers pass any background check......you doofus......you know this.....criminals also steal guns....and they don't do a background check before they steal the gun....you doofus.

Individual sellers are, knowingly or not, straw buyers.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Individual sellers are, knowingly or not, straw buyers.

^^^
This is a lie.

 

[BULLDOG]

Individual sellers are not supplying criminals.....you know this, you have been shown this...your goal is gun registration which is why you push universal background checks...as RetiredGySgt. pointed out in post #461

Licensed dealers have all kinda federal paperwork in regards what firearms they have and are for sale. That precludes them from NOT doing background checks. A private seller has no foot print in the fed system so there is no way with out universal registration to see whether or not private sales have back ground checks.

You know this, but you need gun registration before you try to ban and confiscate guns..

Straw buyers pass any background check......you doofus......you know this.....criminals also steal guns....and they don't do a background check before they steal the gun....you doofus.

You think a criminal wouldn't take advantage of the chance to buy a gun with no questions asked? You're pretty dumb, aren't you?

 

[2aguy]

Individual sellers are, knowingly or not, straw buyers.

No...they are not.....you keep making that up, and you know it is a lie.

I gave you the information, and you lie about it.

 

[2aguy]

You think a criminal wouldn't take advantage of the chance to buy a gun with no questions asked? You're pretty dumb, aren't you?

Criminals do not go to individuals because they are afraid of police stings.....they go to known straw buyers......or use their baby mommas. mothers, grand mothers.....

 

[2aguy]

The American Model and it's practitioners...

After her husband bought seats to a concealed carry class as a gift for her 21st birthday, Desstoni Johnson left the class feeling like she didn't learn a thing.
Many times during class, she felt the male instructor was speaking to everyone except her and the only other woman in the class. Johnson and her classmate would constantly glance at one another wondering if they were the only ones confused and feeling left out.

Instead of becoming discouraged about it, Johnson became motivated to continue practicing and learning as much as she could on her own. It inspired her to want to help others.
"From then on, I couldn't put guns down. When carrying, I feel I am in control of my own safety and when teaching, I feel empowered knowing I am gifting that same sense of security to other men and women," said Johnson.
She created Fearless Firearm Instruction LLC, a firearms academy in central Arkansas founded with women in mind.
-----
"I'm an NRA certified pistol instructor," said Johnson. "I'm an NRA basic range safety officer: stop the bleed certification. We're on the range and we're handling guns and holes happen on the range, you know, with my students I want to be able to help until an emergency medical personnel comes."
The goal is to introduce more women and other underrepresented groups to responsible and legal gun ownership, safe usage, and skilled marksmanship.

Little Rock woman providing gun training for women and minorities

Desstoni Johnson is the founder of Fearless Firearm Instruction LLC: a firearms academy in central Arkansas created with women in mind.

www.thv11.com

 

[BULLDOG]

No...they are not.....you keep making that up, and you know it is a lie.

I gave you the information, and you lie about it.

Of course they are. Individual sellers regularly sell guns that aren't allowed to have them. What makes you think they don't? Do you think a crook would pass up the opportunity to buy a gun with no questions asked? Really?

 

[BULLDOG]

Criminals do not go to individuals because they are afraid of police stings.....they go to known straw buyers......or use their baby mommas. mothers, grand mothers.....

Don't be silly.

 

[GLASNOST]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

Yes! Thank God for the American "right to protect themselves" with "the best tool for self defense, guns"! They are "protecting themselves" to the maximum!

The only conclusion that can be made is that Americans (above all others) are over-protected:

 

[Ivan88]

USA Congress has tormented, maimed and killed hundreds of millions of people over the last 121 years, yet the country is drained dry by constantly having wars.
And those traitorous congress gurus want to dis-arm the American People.

And most of that Mass Shooting data is caused by our wonderful bullycrats.

 

[2aguy]

Yes! Thank God for the American "right to protect themselves" with "the best tool for self defense, guns"! They are "protecting themselves" to the maximum!

The only conclusion that can be made is that Americans (above all others) are over-protected:



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So.....since 1939 if we average the number of gun murders in the U.S. by criminals with guns...it would be about 10,000 a year.

Of those murdered each year 70-80% of the victims are criminals murdered by other criminals.

Over the 81 year period today that would be 810,000 people, mostly criminals.

In the 6 year period between 1939 and the liberation of Europe in 1945.....the German socialists murdered about 12 million innocent men, women and children...

Not criminals...innocents. Who did nothing wrong.....12 million murdered by the government of Germany with the help of most of the governments of Europe.

So over 81 years, our criminals, with illegal guns can't even come close to the governments of Europe in killing innocent people....

 

[2aguy]

Yes! Thank God for the American "right to protect themselves" with "the best tool for self defense, guns"! They are "protecting themselves" to the maximum!

The only conclusion that can be made is that Americans (above all others) are over-protected:



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Paris concert Attack....137 murdered. Fully automatic rifles...completely illegal on the continent, in France and in Paris......

Nice, France Rental truck attack....86 murdered.

In the U.S. we have 330 million people.



In 2019 there were 12 mass public shootings....12 individuals out of 330 million.



They killed a total of 73 people.



Each year deer kill 200 people.



Ladders kill 300 people.



Lawn mowers kill between 90-100 people.



Bathtubs kill 350 people a year.



Cars killed over 39,000 people.



Yet somehow we are to believe that with 600 million guns in private hands, and over 19.4 million Americans who can legally carry guns in public for self defense...that we must ban these guns because of mass public shootings.......



This is why we don't trust gun grabbers.....Americans own 600 million guns, and over 19.4 million legally carry their legal guns out in public for self defense.....

.......total number of people who engaged in mass public shootings in 2019....

12, out of over 330 million people in the United States.


Total number of people killed in those 12 mass public shootings?

73.

Compared to?

Deer kill 200 people a year.

Bathtubs kill 350 people a year.

Ladders kill 200 people a year.

Lawn mowers kill between 90-100 people a year.

In Japan, bathtubs actually kill between 14,000 and 19,000 people a year.

gun grabbers push mass public shootings for one particular reason......

Almost 99.99% of gun murder is not mass public shootings......they are criminals shooting other criminals in tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities.....

Of the 10,258 gun murders 70-80% of the gun murder victims are actual criminals....they are not normal Americans going about their normal lives.

That leaves about 2,051 actual innocent (?) people as victims of gun murder...but of those, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of criminals..or people who attend block parties or birthday parties where criminals show up and get shot at by other criminals........

sooooooooo.....

Most Americans are not criminals.

If you are not a criminal.

If you are not a family member of a criminal.

If you are not an associate of a criminal.

If you don't live in the tiny, democrat party controlled areas of cities where criminals control the streets.

If you don't attend block parties and birthday parties where criminals show up.........

If you are none of the above, the odds of you getting shot by a criminal are almost zero.....

And Americans know this both instinctively and statistically....so they do not actual fear getting shot and killed by criminals....

However.....when a mass public shooting happens, where an individual with a gun enters a public space and shoots random strangers......that may effect normal Americans..........this is not true....but that is the one type of gun murder that most Americans fear...since it is random and effects normal places where people go...

Again......330,000,000 million people in the U.S......

12 people out of those 330,000,000 engaged in mass public shootings in 2019.......killing a total of 73 people.....

The rarest of rare events.............

So anti-gun extremists push mass public shootings because they are covered 24/7 by the democrat party press while the black on black gun murder that is the majority of shootings in our country go uncovered because they occur in democrat party controlled cities.....

US mass shootings, 1982–2021: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed. We adopted that baseline for fatalities when we gathered data in 2012 on three decades worth of cases.
-------

• Here is a description of the criteria we use:
  
  • The perpetrator took the lives of at least four people. A 2008 FBI report identifies an individual as a mass murderer—versus a spree killer or a serial killer—if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location. (*In 2013, the US government’s fatality baseline was revised down to three; our database reflects this change beginning from Jan. 2013, as detailed above.)
  • The killings were carried out by a lone shooter. (Except in the case of the Columbine massacre and the Westside Middle School killings, which involved two shooters.)
  • The shootings occurred in a public place. (Except in the case of a party on private property in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle, where crowds of strangers had gathered, essentially constituting a public crowd.)
  • Crimes primarily related to gang activity or armed robbery are not included, nor are mass killings that took place in private homes (often stemming from domestic violence).
  • 
    
  • Perpetrators who died or were wounded during the attack are not included in the victim tallies.
  • We included a handful of cases also known as “spree killings“—cases in which the killings occurred in more than one location, but still over a short period of time, that otherwise fit the above criteria.
  • ----------------------

Our research focused on indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker. We exclude shootings stemming from more conventionally motivated crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. (Or in which the perpetrators have not been identified.) Other news outlets and researchers have since published larger tallies that include a wide range of gun crimes in which four or more people have been either wounded or killed. While those larger datasets of multiple-victim shootings are useful for studying the broader problem of gun violence, our investigation provides an in-depth look at a distinct phenomenon—from the firearms used and mental health factors to the growing copycat problem. Tracking mass shootings is complex; we believe ours is the most useful approach for studying this specific phenomenon.




knife murders.....2009-2013.....

2009----1,836
2010----1,933
2011----1,611
2012---1,769
2013---1.956
2015....1,589
2016....1,632
2017....1,591

---------
The actual number of mass shootings from Mother Jones......

Here you go...the number of mass public shootings according to Mother Jones...rabid, anti gun, left wing news source.....not the NRA...

The list below comes from the old definition of 4 killed to make a shooting a mass shooting...if you now go to the link there are more than listed below...but that is because Mother Jones changed the list from the time I first posted it...and changed to obama's new standard of only 3 dead to make a mass shooting...

I have put obama's updated number in parenthesis..........

we will see....


US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2020....2

2019....10

2018... 12

2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1
US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation


Rental Truck in Nice, France, 86 murdered in 5 minutes...

Deer kill 200 people a year.

Ladders kill ladders kill 300.

Lawn mower deaths every year.... more than 90

Bathtubs....350

It’s National Ladder Safety Month | Blogs | CDC.,pain%20and%20suffering%20expenses1.

Lawnmowers kill more people than bears or sharks or alligators each year



Ladder Safety.



Someone drowns in a tub nearly every day in America


Mass public shooting deaths total by year......

2020....5
2019....73
2018.....93
2017........117
2016......71
2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7
1999...42
1998...14
1997...9
1996...6
1995...6
1994....5
1993...23
1992...9
1991...35
1990...10
1989...15
1988...7
1987...6
1986...15
1985...(none listed)
1984...28
1983 (none listed)
1982...8

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

 

[Blues Man]

Yes! Thank God for the American "right to protect themselves" with "the best tool for self defense, guns"! They are "protecting themselves" to the maximum!

The only conclusion that can be made is that Americans (above all others) are over-protected:



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We know exactly where 80% of the murders in this country take place and we choose to do nothing about it.

It has nothing to do with the average person legally owning a gun

 

[2aguy]

Yes! Thank God for the American "right to protect themselves" with "the best tool for self defense, guns"! They are "protecting themselves" to the maximum!

The only conclusion that can be made is that Americans (above all others) are over-protected:



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We did not have 288 school shootings......if this wasn't the CDZ I would respond properly to your lack of facts.

The school shootings they use to prop up that number turn out to be gang shootings "near" the school, people who commit suicide on school grounds after hours.....so before you post silly things like that, you should do some research......

The countries on that list have guns....people in those countries have access to those guns...why don't they also shoot up schools...because so far, they haven't decided to do school shootings, even though they already have access to guns....

In 2010 you had the Cumbria shooting in Britain.....a man using a double barrelled sawn off shotgun and a .22 bolt action rifle murdered 13 people........which British gun control law stopped him from walking into a school?

This year.....a man with a gun murdered 5 people in Britain...a mass public shooting....which British gun control law stopped him from going into a school?

Jewish schools in Britain have armed security......which keeps muslim terrorists away.....our schools are gun free zones..

The British police also state they can't stop the increasing flow of illegal guns into Britain...

Canada? They have guns there...which Canadian gun control law keeps them from being used to shoot up a school? Gun crime itself is up in Canada and getting worse.....

France, they have guns there as well......not only that, but the various drug gangs prefer fully automatic military rifles .....which French gun control laws keep them or the other gun owners from attacking schools? Chechen gangs took over a street in Marseilles, and they had to call in the military to stop the fighting....

Italy? Are you kidding? Guns are rampant in Italy...

Funny you didn't mention Sweden...where the drug gangs there are using fully automatic military AK-47s and grenades to fight each other, so much so they have been quarntined by their neighbors over the violence.

Japan is a police state, with conformity to the collective preventing most crime of all types...the Yakuza, though, they have guns..when they need them...and grenades...

Again...these countries have guns.....they just haven't had crazies attack their schools.....because their gun control laws won't stop them....

 

[2aguy]

Yes! Thank God for the American "right to protect themselves" with "the best tool for self defense, guns"! They are "protecting themselves" to the maximum!

The only conclusion that can be made is that Americans (above all others) are over-protected:



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What do all of those targets of mass shootings have in common....? They were gun free zones...where normal people were not allowed to bring their guns.....

 

[2aguy]

Yes! Thank God for the American "right to protect themselves" with "the best tool for self defense, guns"! They are "protecting themselves" to the maximum!

The only conclusion that can be made is that Americans (above all others) are over-protected:



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Also...you forgot Russia.......

The Kazan. Perm, and Kerch schools shootings were ignored on your list......each done with shotguns.....which Britain, France, Germany, Italy all have access to........

 

[2aguy]

Yes! Thank God for the American "right to protect themselves" with "the best tool for self defense, guns"! They are "protecting themselves" to the maximum!

The only conclusion that can be made is that Americans (above all others) are over-protected:



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And the actual balance....

Americans use their legal guns 1.2 million times a year to save lives.....from rape, robbery, murder, beatings and stabbings.......according to the Centers for Disease Control...

Or 1.67 million times according to the recent 2021 Firearms survey...

Or 1.5 million times according to the Department of Justice Research...

Lives saved........can you tell which numbers are bigger?

600 million guns in private hands......over 19.4 million Americans can carry guns legally in public for self defense.........

Gun deaths...the truth....



2019...



Gun murder...10,235



Gun accidents...486



Of the gun murder deaths....over 70-80% of the victims are not regular Americans....they are criminals...murdered by other criminals in primarily democrat party controlled cities....where the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians have released them over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for felony, illegal gun possession and violent crimes with guns...that's on you and your political party...not normal gun owners



Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct





that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—



Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......





So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.

Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”

So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.


Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns

 

[2aguy]

Yes! Thank God for the American "right to protect themselves" with "the best tool for self defense, guns"! They are "protecting themselves" to the maximum!

The only conclusion that can be made is that Americans (above all others) are over-protected:



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Then you have this......guns do not cause crime.....

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

1) the democrat party keeps releasing violent gun offenders...they have created a revolving door for criminals who use guns, and will release even the most serious gun offenders over and over again....why? Probably because they realise that normal people don't use their guns for crime, so if they want to push gun control, they need criminals to shoot people.....so they keep releasing them....

2) The democrat party keeps attacking the police.....driving the officers into not doing pro-active policing, cutting detective forces so that murders go unsolved..........

 

[sealybobo]

What’s your answer to it then? My answer is to get my own rifle or shotgun or pistol. What’s your answer?

So everyone shot in Vegas would have survived if they had a gun?

The solution is kevlar battle gear.