TULIP (God calls some to atheism)

[Grumblenuts]

Do you self-identify

Off topic. Different perspectives of the New Testament are being presented. All are welcome to join. But no pressure.

Is that a claim?

 

[Meriweather]

Is that a claim?

Grin. Are you looking for a claim to jump? Perhaps I could put you in touch with a miner? Meanwhile, in this place we are talking about various perspectives of the New Testament and New Testament verse.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Is that a claim?

Grin. Are you looking for a claim to jump? Perhaps I could put you in touch with a miner? Meanwhile, in this place we are talking about various perspectives of the New Testament and New Testament verse.

And another non-claim presumably? Seriously, why this aversion to taking responsibility for your own assertions of fact?

 

[LittleNipper]

Total depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible grace
Preserverance of the saints

Total depravity means we are hopelessly wicked without God.

Unconditional election means that God picks people for his own reasons and does not have to meet any specific standard.

Limited atonement means there is not enough salvation to go around for everyone. Many people will be left out.

Irresistable grace means that when God picks you then you will not be able to say no. You will become a faithful follower of God and have no say in the manner.

Preserverance of the saints means that nothing can be done to lose your salvation. You have been chosen and will be preserved eternally.

God calls some to be atheists by not calling them. Is this ok?

I feel you have this wrong and that Calvinists were in error also. No, that doesn't mean that Calvinists are not saved. The Bible says by GRACE one is saved and not of works. Trying to be correct is a work. If one is dependent on the MESSIAH for salvation, then one is saved. Now let's consider. Total depravity I imagine is totally correct. Nothing I do is good enough for GOD, when I do it in my state of SIN. I need CHRIST to cover my iniquity.
Unconditional Election also is biblical concept. Once chosen one is saved and that salvation is not dependent on my perfection or abilities.
Limited Atonement means that not everyone goes to heaven. One must accept the gift of GOD. If one rejects that gift that one is shunning GOD and saying I'm good enough without GOD's salvation.
Irresistible Grace I believe is very questionable. I do believe GOD allows free will. One can reject GOD's salvation. No matter how simple GOD has made the possibility of becoming redeemed.
Perseverance of the saints, means that though a saved individual goes through trials and tribulations (Satan cannot steal a SAINT; however, he can certainly try to ruin one's testimony), that saved individual is possessed by GOD and cannot lose his salvation. He can lose heavenly gifts, but not his salvation.

 

[Meriweather]

And another non-claim presumably? Seriously, why this aversion to taking responsibility for your own assertions of fact?

I am presenting my beliefs, my perspectives. There is a difference between presenting beliefs and perspectives and presenting facts. I am sure you understand.

Belief: Something that is an opinion or a conviction.
Perspective: The state of one's ideas.
Idea: Any conception existing in the mind as a result of mental understanding, awareness, or activity.
Fact: Something that actually exists. (As opposed to ideas, philosophies)

 

[Grumblenuts]

There is a difference between presenting beliefs and perspectives and presenting facts. I am sure you understand.

Indeed. I find it an extremely simple concept. So why do you persist in never taking responsibility for your clear assertions of fact? Example:

Belief: Something that is an opinion or a conviction.
Perspective: The state of one's ideas.
Idea: Any conception existing in the mind as a result of mental understanding, awareness, or activity.
Fact: Something that actually exists. (As opposed to ideas, philosophies)

Did you just write that or not? Was your intent to share opinion or fact? No pressure

 

[Meriweather]

Was your intent to share opinion or fact?

We are in trouble when someone cannot even identify a definition. Look, if you wish to discuss religion or scripture, I'm here.

 

[Grumblenuts]

We are in trouble when someone cannot even identify a definition.

So by posting a definition are you claiming anything?

What Does the Bible Say About Taking Responsibility?

Bible verses about Taking Responsibility

www.openbible.info

 

[Grumblenuts]

1 Peter 3:1-6 ESV
Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct. Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, ...

Helpful or Not Helpful?
Peter should know, right? Bible ethics, baby! You just can't make this sh..

 

[Grumblenuts]

I'm sure a real God would know how little it would take to convince me, and make me a follower forever, but, if he does exist, he doesn't seem to care about me enough to show he is real..

Yeah, but try to see it from Peter's perspective!

 

[Meriweather]

Helpful or Not Helpful?

What would be your advice be to a married woman (keep in mind they were married at age 14) who believed in Christ but whose husband did not?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Answer the question first, please

..and crickets..

Okay, well, I think you miss the point. It's clearly married -or- unmarried in this case, rendering your question moot. The fairly screamed point regardless is "Submit!" You're just a women. Whenever your man gets horny, just shut up and spread 'em like a good little second class citizen! Do it in the name of the Lord and like it! Or fake liking it! No one who counts really cares!

That's ancient Christian morality from my perspective. Helpful?

 

[ding]

1 Peter 3:1-6 ESV
Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct. Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, ...

Helpful or Not Helpful?
Peter should know, right? Bible ethics, baby! You just can't make this sh..

The whole chapter was intended to be instructional. There are roles and responsibilities in all marriages or at least there are in harmonious relationships where two are joined into one.

8 Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind. 9 Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing. 10 For

 

[ding]

That's ancient Christian morality from my perspective. Helpful?

Not so much. I find this much more helpful.



But if I wanted to describe what something wasn't to arrive at what I thought it was without ever having to examine what it was, then your approach would be brilliant.

I would much rather look at all sides to arrive at objective truth. Like C.S. Lewis did.

 

[Meriweather]

Answer the question first, please

..and crickets..

Every so often other responsibilities take precedence over online postings.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Every so often other responsibilities take precedence over online postings.

Is that a claim?

{Hint: Yes or No}

 

[Meriweather]

Okay, well, I think you miss the point. It's clearly married -or- unmarried in this case, rendering your question moot. The fairly screamed point regardless is "Submit!" You're just a women. Whenever your man gets horny, just shut up and spread 'em like a good little second class citizen! Do it in the name of the Lord and like it! Or fake liking it! No one who counts really cares!

You believe that is how men treated women back in the day?

Peter was addressing the question of, "I am a Christian married to a non-Christian. What should I do?" Notice the advice was not to preach to her husband at every opportunity. Next thing to note is that the words 'submit' or 'submission' did not come into use until the fourteenth century. What was expected of wives at that time was selflessness. Peter's advice was to be selfless, to be a good wife.

Two thousand years later another Christian woman married a non-Christian. This wife, too, decided to be selfless, to be a good wife. And the husband decided to be selfless and to be a good husband.


So there you have it. Two different perspectives of the same verses.

 

[BULLDOG]

I'm sure a real God would know how little it would take to convince me, and make me a follower forever, but, if he does exist, he doesn't seem to care about me enough to show he is real..

Yeah, but try to see it from Peter's perspective!

Why? I'm not Peter.

 

[Meriweather]

That's ancient Christian morality from my perspective. Helpful?

Helpful for what? It is informative. It tells me how you perceive the passage. You did well, discussing the passage.

 

[Grumblenuts]

So there you have it. Two different perspectives of the same verses.

One ignoring the first sentence. The other not. Pick and choose.. Pick and choose.. You did as expected.