TULIP (God calls some to atheism)

[Ringtone]

I think people in this thread kind of glossed over my reference to Calvinism and didn’t notice it. I would venture to say that most people posting in this thread neither know what tulip means nor did they bother to look it up. If someone in here was an indoctrinated Calvinist then they would find my assertion that God chose me to be atheist to be very funny indeed. I don’t think anybody in this thread is guilty of accepting Calvinism as Christianity.

I followed the reference to the Augustinian acronym and, thus, to Calvinism and your witticism. In this wise, my hermeneutic is Arminianism. I just think you're too smart to allow yourself to be overcome by the myth of fatalism when you know in your heart of hearts that God exists and made a way for us all. . . .

Guilt or pride? No one is innocent. You can rise above these things. God's not asking you to make excuses or even make amends. The former are vain and the latter was accomplished by another . . . and the glory of his accomplishment is beyond your reach.

God makes things simple for us: acknowledge who you are in the scheme of things and surrender.

There are tons of atheist that never discuss religion at all. It is just a topic that interests me. That makes me vulnerable to the silly claim that I am mad at God or I wouldn’t be discussing Him. What would your argument be to an atheist that has an interest in classic cars and wouldn’t discuss religion if you paid him? Is that atheist mad at God too? or is it just the atheist that enjoy the topic of religion that have some sort of complex?

Atheism is lazy, boring really, as it always entails some glaringly obvious contradiction rather than the truly exhilarating complexity and nuance of reality. In the end, the argument leads to the same path: acknowledge who you are in the scheme of things and surrender. God's plan is simple, but there's nothing boring about it. Why settle for less?

 

[Meriweather]

Atheism is lazy, boring really,

I don't agree with this. Some atheists have valid reasons for choosing atheism and how they choose to make their way can be interesting and worth discussing.

 

[Hollie]

I am certain that I have the best understanding of the gods or at least the men who wrote the Bible.

Based on the original language, cultures, and histories of Biblical times? Or is that best understanding based on Modern English and modern Western culture?

I suppose the reader has to decide if anything in the Bible, or any other “holy text” gets them close to their preferred gods. Books written by men are a poor choice by supernatural gods to deliver their message. Why would the gods risk their message being altered by the corruptible hand of man when direct communication could be done.

 

[Meriweather]

I suppose the reader has to decide if anything in the Bible, or any other “holy text” gets them close to their preferred gods. Books written by men are a poor choice by supernatural gods to deliver their message. Why would the gods risk their message being altered by the corruptible hand of man when direct communication could be done.

I have two chinchillas. The difference between human intelligence and chinchilla intelligence is vast. What would you think of me writing down everything I wanted chinchillas to know about me? The difference between God and humans is probably more vast than the difference between humans and chinchillas. Why would it be a viable solution for God to sit down with pen and paper, or computer? What happens when people interact with their pets? What happens when a pet does not interact well with its human?

I believe God's advice that each person seek and know Him works best. People can then share their experiences with those interested. Those not interested need not be bothered.

 

[Ringtone]

Atheism is lazy, boring really,

I don't agree with this. Some atheists have valid reasons for choosing atheism and how they choose to make their way can be interesting and worth discussing.

Atheism is lazy, boring really,

I don't agree with this. Some atheists have valid reasons for choosing atheism and how they choose to make their way can be interesting and worth discussing.

Without knowing precisely what you have in mind, there are no valid reasons for atheism . . . but taking that first step on God's path to home certainly entails another journey.

 

[Hollie]

I suppose the reader has to decide if anything in the Bible, or any other “holy text” gets them close to their preferred gods. Books written by men are a poor choice by supernatural gods to deliver their message. Why would the gods risk their message being altered by the corruptible hand of man when direct communication could be done.

I have two chinchillas. The difference between human intelligence and chinchilla intelligence is vast. What would you think of me writing down everything I wanted chinchillas to know about me? The difference between God and humans is probably more vast than the difference between humans and chinchillas. Why would it be a viable solution for God to sit down with pen and paper, or computer? What happens when people interact with their pets? What happens when a pet does not interact well with its human?

I believe God's advice that each person seek and know Him works best. People can then share their experiences with those interested. Those not interested need not be bothered.

That’s an odd attempt at analogy. Are you a god over your chinchillas? Otherwise, it would seem the gods must have assumed that people would kill and maim over differences in interpretation of the books written about them, that civilizations would clash over doctrine and that the books written about them would cause irreparable harm. All of your testimony presupposes that your god(s) is/are the true god(s). All religions make this claim. I see nothing that advances your claim above the others.

Sharing experiences is fine if that’s where it ended. But, I have to point out that religions tend to have this need to share their experiences at the business end of force and coercion. The choices made by adherents to your belief system and the belief system of adherents to competing religions can affect me on an ongoing basis. Since I am not an adherent to any of these religions, but to some extent must cope with them, I certainly think this gives me solid reasons to address the veracity of your claims.

 

[Meriweather]

Sharing experiences is fine if that’s where it ended. But, I have to point out that religions tend to have this need to share their experiences at the business end of force and coercion. The choices made by adherents to your belief system and the belief system of adherents to competing religions can affect me on an ongoing basis. Since I am not an adherent to any of these religions, but to some extent must cope with them, I certainly think this gives me solid reasons to address the veracity of your claims.

So, you are terrified of religion. When was your last experience of being forced and coerced? Which religion did this to you?

 

[Hollie]

Atheism is lazy, boring really,

I don't agree with this. Some atheists have valid reasons for choosing atheism and how they choose to make their way can be interesting and worth discussing.

Atheism is lazy, boring really,

I don't agree with this. Some atheists have valid reasons for choosing atheism and how they choose to make their way can be interesting and worth discussing.

Without knowing precisely what you have in mind, there are no valid reasons for atheism . . . but taking that first step on God's path to home certainly entails another journey.

There are many valid reasons for choosing not to believe in religion. Learning, knowledge, maturity, among them. I have to note that overwhelmingly, believers don’t make considered choices about their religious belief. Their belief is merely an acceptance of the cultural, societal and familial gods of convenience. Let's be honest. Religions don’t coerce their adherents via promises of free thinking and individualistic expression, they use fear. I have no reason to believe I’m going to hell for not obeying a religious doctrine. The concept only derives from various religious texts and tales and fables. These tales are derived to invoke fear. Fear is a powerful motivational tool. What better way for an elite ruling class to coerce conformance from the toiling masses than to threaten them with such things as burning flesh, eternal damnation and eternal pain.

 

[Hollie]

Sharing experiences is fine if that’s where it ended. But, I have to point out that religions tend to have this need to share their experiences at the business end of force and coercion. The choices made by adherents to your belief system and the belief system of adherents to competing religions can affect me on an ongoing basis. Since I am not an adherent to any of these religions, but to some extent must cope with them, I certainly think this gives me solid reasons to address the veracity of your claims.

So, you are terrified of religion. When was your last experience of being forced and coerced? Which religion did this to you?

That’s so silly.

Why are you so afraid of a corporeal existence? Is your religious belief a defense mechanism for your fears; fear of dying, fear of failure, fear of living your life?

 

[Meriweather]

That’s so silly.

Why are you so afraid of a corporeal existence? Is your religious belief a defense mechanism for your fears; fear of dying, fear of failure, fear of living your life?

Grin. Talk about being silly! Just because you have fears, they should not be projected onto others. Now that you know I am fear free, any other thoughts?

 

[Meriweather]

I have to note that overwhelmingly, believers don’t make considered choices about their religious belief.

And you know this how?

 

[Meriweather]

Their belief is merely an acceptance of the cultural, societal and familial gods of convenience.

Actually, no. Again, you are jumping to conclusions that fit your own biases.

 

[Ringtone]

There are many valid reasons for choosing not to believe in religion. Learning, knowledge, maturity, among them. I have to note that overwhelmingly, believers don’t make considered choices about their religious belief. Their belief is merely an acceptance of the cultural, societal and familial gods of convenience. Let's be honest. Religions don’t coerce their adherents via promises of free thinking and individualistic expression, they use fear. I have no reason to believe I’m going to hell for not obeying a religious doctrine. The concept only derives from various religious texts and tales and fables. These tales are derived to invoke fear. Fear is a powerful motivational tool. What better way for an elite ruling class to coerce conformance from the toiling masses than to threaten them with such things as burning flesh, eternal damnation and eternal pain.

I wasn't talking about believing in religion, whatever that means, but apprehending the reality of God's existence. There really is no valid reason to believe that God doesn't exist. There is no valid explanation for anything at all sans God's existence.

 

[Meriweather]

Religions don’t coerce their adherents via promises of free thinking and individualistic expression, they use fear.

Also not true, at least not in the majority of cases. You have an extremely shallow view of religion. Once again a projection of your own beliefs and experiences.

 

[Meriweather]

I have no reason to believe I’m going to hell for not obeying a religious doctrine.

Correct, you are not going to hell.

 

[Meriweather]

These tales are derived to invoke fear.

Again, incorrect. But which ones invoked great fear into you? (And no claiming that no fear was invoked into you, it just happens to everyone else.)

 

[Hollie]

That’s so silly.

Why are you so afraid of a corporeal existence? Is your religious belief a defense mechanism for your fears; fear of dying, fear of failure, fear of living your life?

Grin. Talk about being silly! Just because you have fears, they should not be projected onto others. Now that you know I am fear free, any other thoughts?

Grin. I have fears? Yes, some. None connected to angry gods, though.

 

[Hollie]

I have no reason to believe I’m going to hell for not obeying a religious doctrine.

Correct, you are not going to hell.

I have no reason believe anyone is going to some place called ''hell''. The threat of going to hell is a manipulative tool of religion to coerce behavior.

 

[Meriweather]

Grin. I have fears? Yes, some. None connected to angry gods, though.

As there are no angry gods, you shall remain fearless on that account.

 

[Meriweather]

I have no reason believe anyone is going to some place called ''hell''. The threat of going to hell is a manipulative tool of religion to coerce behavior.

I wouldn't know. In my life time I have only heard three homilies on hell. They were about separation from God for those who wish this separation.