trump claims he told NATO country he would not protect them if Russia attacked them

[eagle1462010]

Utter - nonsense, the fall of the USSR wasn't due to the US military fighting any war - moron

It was indeed the USSR under Gorbachev that had set the inevitable reunification between East and West- Germany - whilst only demanding DM (Deutsch Marks 4 billion) to pull out Russian troops from East-Germany, Poland and Czechoslovakia. The Americans paid NOTHING.

It was however the USA, Britain and France that OBJECTED towards the German reunification - whilst pressing for special conditions - such as US bases in Germany paid for by Germany, no juristic access towards US troops committing crimes in Germany, and that Germany is NOT ALLOWED to possess nuke weapons !!!

And Poland - just as it is today - was created and enabled by the USSR after WW2.

The only ones bitching and whining are MAGA's - since they got no clue about whatsoever.

It fell due to the costs and that the people were tired of Russiab BS.

And it was the U.S. who stood the line their for a very long time.

Now you UNGRATEFULL assholes bitching about us saying defend your own back yard.

 

[Kruska]

It fell due to the costs and that the people were tired of Russiab BS.

And it was the U.S. who stood the line their for a very long time.

Now you UNGRATEFULL assholes bitching about us saying defend your own back yard.

Nonsense again - e.g. Reagan's and the respective US governments push/policy/spending's towards it's military was solely to maintain US global hegemony. Against solely the USSR and anyone else they disagreed with. Since during the Cold-war the front-line was running through Germany - logically the USA stationed large forces in e.g. Germany, and every NATO member was contributing his respective share. You are obviously living in the past - since the USSR was abolished in 1990 and since then Russia never posed any credible threat towards NATO till today.

The US problem is solely CHINA - and unlike the USSR or now Russia, these two never ever possessed a credible economy which would be the prerequisite for any modern Armed Forces, that could challenge the USA, unlike China. Trump and any other US administration is fully aware, that the USA does no more possess the economic capability to maintain an Armed Forces that could challenge or balance the Chinese Armed Forces. So the USA needs to save money aka free any financial military commitment, that is not in regards to China.

Therefore if the US pulls out it's forces in Europe - it doesn't matter at all, since Russia is militarily an absolute nobody. However it is the USA that continued to engulf and isolate Russia since 1991 with the help of the European NATO and the EU - aka the known and ongoing Eastward Expansion. In order to make a continued Eastward expansion feasible - the USA desperately needs NATO - and the European NATO simply isn't willing to play ball-boy for the USA anymore - latest since the Ukraine fiasco. Therefore if the USA want's to continue it's Russia policy and China policy - they need NATO - and not the other way around.

The above statements are the present geopolitical facts - and nothing else.

Due to the US election this year, scumbag Trump is making use of every single topic (the exact same topics he already promised and babbled about in 2015) - to garner votes from the gullible. So he tells those dumb MAGA's that the European NATO isn't paying the US "bills" (show me those bills) and is further telling his dumb crowd - the reason for the USA to have such a huge state debt and no Mexico wall, is due to NATO not paying these (non-existing) bills. And all these totally dumb MAGA shills get ecstatic and hysteric - just like puberty stricken teenage girls and their combined IQ at a Beatles concert!!! - that is exactly as to what MAGA's are.

Trump in the meantime has become so insane (due to this insane puberty stricken MAGA crowd), to even propose to Putin and his dumb stricken herd of sheep - feel free to attack NATO members - and these insane MAGA shills even applaud such a treasonous statement - simply because an insane Trump said so.

Over and out

 

[iku]

We should take a loan to pay for the USA and it's global hegemonic policy??? already got your straitjacket on?

Hole, relinquish your NATO status and defend yourself.

 

[iku]

The day "orchestration" of Ukraine's political landscape got underway (from all sides) was latest on the day they declared independence from Russia, upon the dissolution of the USSR - now 34 years ago. BTW, during the George Bush administration.

Since then both the West, Russia and Ukrainian factions have been manipulating and "orchestrating" Ukraine.

Hole, consider an orchiectomy.
I am talking Obama and his administration.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy

 

[Kruska]

Hole, relinquish your NATO status and defend yourself.

Who says that we don't? - only your mentally incapacitated Führer and his puberty stricken sheep.

 

[beagle9]

I doubt he was held, they probably just had a talk with him.

Could have been at his hotel.

I doubt the pee thing, even if real, is the only object of blackmail. Must be more than that. Could have been that at the time, but it's probably deeper now.

Keep hope alive eh ?

 

[Seymour Flops]

I doubt he was held, they probably just had a talk with him.

Could have been at his hotel.

I doubt the pee thing, even if real, is the only object of blackmail. Must be more than that. Could have been that at the time, but it's probably deeper now.

I guess that is a very nice way of putting that the story is complete horseshit. The Trump deranged will grasp it anything that anybody on the Internet says that’s negative about Trump.

I’m sorely tempted to start going on the Internet myself under some bizarre character I could say almost anything about Trump, regardless of any basis for it, and inevitably see it appear right here on US message board.

Not saying that Trump is Republicans or conservatives or whatever are never taken in by outlander stories. The difference is that once the story is proven false, we admitted. Why do we admit it? Because along with whatever anti-troopers/democrats/whatever we told the story too, we also told it to our fellow American posters. so we admitted, we apologize, because, if we did not, we would be called on it.

That is the key difference. That insistence on factual information that we see from the pro American faction that is always lacking in the other side.

 

[beagle9]

Nonsense again - e.g. Reagan's and the respective US governments push/policy/spending's towards it's military was solely to maintain US global hegemony. Against solely the USSR and anyone else they disagreed with. Since during the Cold-war the front-line was running through Germany - logically the USA stationed large forces in e.g. Germany, and every NATO member was contributing his respective share. You are obviously living in the past - since the USSR was abolished in 1990 and since then Russia never posed any credible threat towards NATO till today.

The US problem is solely CHINA - and unlike the USSR or now Russia, these two never ever possessed a credible economy which would be the prerequisite for any modern Armed Forces, that could challenge the USA, unlike China. Trump and any other US administration is fully aware, that the USA does no more possess the economic capability to maintain an Armed Forces that could challenge or balance the Chinese Armed Forces. So the USA needs to save money aka free any financial military commitment, that is not in regards to China.

Therefore if the US pulls out it's forces in Europe - it doesn't matter at all, since Russia is militarily an absolute nobody. However it is the USA that continued to engulf and isolate Russia since 1991 with the help of the European NATO and the EU - aka the known and ongoing Eastward Expansion. In order to make a continued Eastward expansion feasible - the USA desperately needs NATO - and the European NATO simply isn't willing to play ball-boy for the USA anymore - latest since the Ukraine fiasco. Therefore if the USA want's to continue it's Russia policy and China policy - they need NATO - and not the other way around.

The above statements are the present geopolitical facts - and nothing else.

Due to the US election this year, scumbag Trump is making use of every single topic (the exact same topics he already promised and babbled about in 2015) - to garner votes from the gullible. So he tells those dumb MAGA's that the European NATO isn't paying the US "bills" (show me those bills) and is further telling his dumb crowd - the reason for the USA to have such a huge state debt and no Mexico wall, is due to NATO not paying these (non-existing) bills. And all these totally dumb MAGA shills get ecstatic and hysteric - just like puberty stricken teenage girls and their combined IQ at a Beatles concert!!! - that is exactly as to what MAGA's are.

Trump in the meantime has become so insane (due to this insane puberty stricken MAGA crowd), to even propose to Putin and his dumb stricken herd of sheep - feel free to attack NATO members - and these insane MAGA shills even applaud such a treasonous statement - simply because an insane Trump said so.

Over and out

Can it be that one lie begets many, and the misrepresentation of Trump's words is exactly that (a furtherance of such a lie or misrepresentation of his words spoken, otherwise if not totally understood because no one wants to ask Trump what exactly did he mean by those words before going to political war with him over them) ???

Could it be that Trump didn't actually say that he would back Russia or support Russia if it decided for some hypothetical reason to attack a NATO country in the Russian and European regional theater, otherwise if he thought that Russia was provoked into such an attack if were the case, but only that he would remain neutral until the facts of the matter were known without a doubt ????

Is it that Trump instead would just stay out of it if the United States isn't threatened directly in the situation that is approximately a thousand or more miles away from America's border's ????

Could it be that he meant that if they did attack for some hypothetical reason say Poland for example, (otherwise if Russia was possibly provoked into the situation), that he wouldn't get in involved if were the case (i.e. stay out of it if it were up to him as President of the United State, for whom regardless of our membership in NATO), we still have the awesome responsibility of not causing world war three or a nuclear exchange due to the reckless actions of prideful politics by many who would require our involvement to help regardless of the truth in such matters, and this even so if reckless actions were to occur ?????.... So irregardless of the circumstances involved in the politics, we as a responsible nation must avoid escalation that might lead next to a nuclear exchange with a nuclear nation).

The war must be stopped immediately through proper negotiations, because everyday it leads to escalation by way of the warring faction's being educated on how to destroy each other in this world, and to do so by way of horrific technology that will soon endanger our satellites and us no longer being able to see our potential enemies around the world, and their every move of hostility if need be.

Does Trump say these supposed upsetting things, because it could be that he feels that NATO countries action's might provoke or cause a critical situation in the region, and it being without the United States blessings over the matter therefore breaking the trust in NATO ?????....... Does he feel this way because of the situation as to what has developed over time with NATO and the United States involvement in the regional conflict in Ukraine now, and if so does this concern him greatly over the Ukraine and Russian entanglement in that region being ripe for escalation to come at the drop of a hat ?????

So I ask, is his opinion due to the troubles that both NATO and the United States have now since encountered over the regional conflict, and if so, it being due to the opposite of opinion's or due to the situations that have since been developing within the politics between these NATO nations and the U.S. involvement in that region, otherwise in which would prompt him to walk a finer line in order to avoid world war three (i.e. the nuclear exchange) ?????

Trump probably doesn't agree with the situation between Ukraine and Russia at all, but it's he's cautious all due to the studying of the history of it all, and so he thinks that the United States shouldn't be dragged into a potential nuclear exchange over the deadly or corrupt politics involved in it all.

Does this make sense ?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Keep hope alive eh ?

Not really. People are still trying to figure out why Trump lick's Putin's butthole and sides with Putin over his own country and institutions.. Eventually the truth will come out. Is it just as simple and shallow as the classless, amoral Trump greatly admiring the insane dictator? Or is there more?

 

[MisterBeale]

If folks really want to understand why Trump made the comments he made, and want to see the charts and graphs, this is an interesting podcast.

This includes Senate Minority Leader McConnell saying the quiet part out loud. (31:00)

Broadcast begins at 11 minutes.

Dems Plot To Remove Trump Camouflaged in NEWLY PASSED $95B Ukraine Bill!​

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If folks really want to understand why Trump made the comments he made, and want to see the charts and graphs, this is an interesting podcast.

This includes Senate Minority Leader McConnell saying the quiet part out loud. (31:00)

Broadcast begins at 11 minutes.

Dems Plot To Remove Trump Camouflaged in NEWLY PASSED $95B Ukraine Bill!​

No, this is a cultist running cover for trump.

We all know why he said what he said: He is protecting his actual allies, which do not include the United States or Europe.

 

[beagle9]

If folks really want to understand why Trump made the comments he made, and want to see the charts and graphs, this is an interesting podcast.

This includes Senate Minority Leader McConnell saying the quiet part out loud. (31:00)

Broadcast begins at 11 minutes.

Dems Plot To Remove Trump Camouflaged in NEWLY PASSED $95B Ukraine Bill!​

People better wake up before we are next to be blamed directly for interfering in that region, and this being all due to the close ties that the U S. Democrat's have illustrated with the leadership of Ukraine, and yet this is without a total understanding of the entire relationship given to the American people... Irregardless of the intervention, the country of Ukraine is being totally destroyed because of it's existence inside of the sphere of influence that not only includes Russia as it's bordering nation who for some reason is angry at it, but it also includes the Russian speaking people living within Ukraine for which were proudly part of the world war two historic and victorious USSR against the NAZIS of old.

Not sure how the region views everything that is going on within it, and how it is viewing our lead in the intervention be it through our money or by our assistance in Ukraine, otherwise that basically is saying that Russia has no standing or negotiation value within the region.

 

[MisterBeale]

No, this is a cultist running cover for trump.

We all know why he said what he said: He is protecting his actual allies, which do not include the United States or Europe.

Congress Sets Time Bomb For FUTURE Trump Impeachment!​

JD Vance Warns About 'Impeachment Bomb' During Tucker Carlson Interview

redstate.com

The Ukraine aid bill doesn’t target Trump, experts say

Sen. J.D. Vance, R-Ohio, said "all Republicans should oppose" a bill that would provide $95 billion in aid for Ukraine,

www.politifact.com

 

[Kruska]

So I ask, is his opinion due to the troubles that both NATO and the United States have now since encountered over the regional conflict, and if so, it being due to the opposite of opinion's or due to the situations that have since been developing within the politics between these NATO nations and the U.S. involvement in that region, otherwise in which would prompt him to walk a finer line in order to avoid world war three (i.e. the nuclear exchange) ?????

Trump probably doesn't agree with the situation between Ukraine and Russia at all, but it's he's cautious all due to the studying of the history of it all, and so he thinks that the United States shouldn't be dragged into a potential nuclear exchange over the deadly or corrupt politics involved in it all.

Does this make sense ?

No it doesn't make sense at all to "read" into Trumps mind nor thoughts. Nor your personal interpretations towards a clear statement.

This is about taking into account; as to what Trump FACTUALLY stated.
(which was and still is "enthusiastically" supported by the MAGA crowd).

How Trump urging Russia to invade 'delinquent' NATO members distorts how the alliance works

Donald Trump says he once warned that he would allow Russia to do whatever it wants to NATO member nations that are “delinquent” in devoting 2% of their gross domestic product to defense.

apnews.com

“‘You didn’t pay? You’re delinquent?’” Trump recounted saying. “‘No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You gotta pay. You gotta pay your bills.’”

1. NATO members are not delinquent - since they did not break any law, nor do they own any bills to NATO nor the USA.
2. Trump also clearly states: I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want.

Not protect you; - he therefore defies NATO article 5, the very essence of the NATO Defense doctrine.
Would encourage - them (Russia and any non-NATO member); that is treason towards the USA and NATO members
Whatever the hell they want - that includes war, aka attacking a NATO member.

And if Trump does not agree as to how e.g. the Russia-Ukraine issue is handled by the USA and NATO - has absolutely no relevance towards defying NATO article 5. Nor with encouraging others to attack a NATO member.

The USA and any NATO member is free to state at anytime: "we do not, we are not going to continue to support Ukraine".

But Trump NEVER stated that, but:

“‘You didn’t pay? You’re delinquent?’” Trump recounted saying. “‘No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You gotta pay. You gotta pay your bills.’”

He could have clearly stated - that if NATO members are not in line with the NATO 2% GUIDELINE - the USA is not going to make up for it.

However he never did state that - because he is an idiotic loudmouth human scumbag - that only lives to appeal towards the lowest forms of instincts and human behavior amongst his supporters, who are willing to elect him as President of the USA.

Trump trying to avoid WW3??? - where or when did he state that?
His above statement is FACTUALLY encouraging a WW3.

What did Trump do "on his behalf" in his 4 years to get Russian troops out of Crimea, Donbas and Luhansk? - absolutely NOTHING
He therefore is obviously in support of Russia attacking a neighbor country - since Ukraine NEVER attacked Russia. Or he is simply incapable to develop and implement a meaningful US foreign policy !!! since his fake "bill" statement was already used up in his previous election and term rants - now he is insane enough to even encourage others to "attack" NATO members.

And it is solely Russia's attack onto Ukraine that caused foremost front line NATO states, to significantly increase their defense spending, and e.g. Poland's own hegemonic interests.

The European NATO incl. Canada is paying US$ 380 billion for it's defense - and Russia's defense budget is at US$ 60 billion - now after it's currency depreciation it is less then US$ 30 billion. You MAGA's and your Trump, are plain ignorant and stupid.

And Europe's NATO member politicians (all fake democracies) are all incapable and corrupt - therefore defense industry lobbyists, now making intensive use of Trumps ludicrous and treasonous statement, to increase/push totally unnecessary military projects on behalf of their own defense industry and of those US defense lobbyists.

China, Russia, India, etc. etc. are laughing their heads off - and can't wait for a ludicrous Trump to run the USA and finally **** up the US global hegemonic supremacy in a totally irresponsible manner. And only MAGA idiots, believe that a USA without global hegemonic supremacy could survive economically at the present given state.

 

[beagle9]

No it doesn't make sense at all to "read" into Trumps mind nor thoughts. Nor your personal interpretations towards a clear statement.

This is about taking into account; as to what Trump FACTUALLY stated.
(which was and still is "enthusiastically" supported by the MAGA crowd).

How Trump urging Russia to invade 'delinquent' NATO members distorts how the alliance works

Donald Trump says he once warned that he would allow Russia to do whatever it wants to NATO member nations that are “delinquent” in devoting 2% of their gross domestic product to defense.

apnews.com

“‘You didn’t pay? You’re delinquent?’” Trump recounted saying. “‘No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You gotta pay. You gotta pay your bills.’”

1. NATO members are not delinquent - since they did not break any law, nor do they own any bills to NATO nor the USA.
2. Trump also clearly states: I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want.

Not protect you; - he therefore defies NATO article 5, the very essence of the NATO Defense doctrine.
Would encourage - them (Russia and any non-NATO member); that is treason towards the USA and NATO members
Whatever the hell they want - that includes war, aka attacking a NATO member.

And if Trump does not agree as to how e.g. the Russia-Ukraine issue is handled by the USA and NATO - has absolutely no relevance towards defying NATO article 5. Nor with encouraging others to attack a NATO member.

The USA and any NATO member is free to state at anytime: "we do not, we are not going to continue to support Ukraine".

But Trump NEVER stated that, but:

“‘You didn’t pay? You’re delinquent?’” Trump recounted saying. “‘No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You gotta pay. You gotta pay your bills.’”

He could have clearly stated - that if NATO members are not in line with the NATO 2% GUIDELINE - the USA is not going to make up for it.

However he never did state that - because he is an idiotic loudmouth human scumbag - that only lives to appeal towards the lowest forms of instincts and human behavior amongst his supporters, who are willing to elect him as President of the USA.

Trump trying to avoid WW3??? - where or when did he state that?
His above statement is FACTUALLY encouraging a WW3.

What did Trump do "on his behalf" in his 4 years to get Russian troops out of Crimea, Donbas and Luhansk? - absolutely NOTHING
He therefore is obviously in support of Russia attacking a neighbor country - since Ukraine NEVER attacked Russia. Or he is simply incapable to develop and implement a meaningful US foreign policy !!! since his fake "bill" statement was already used up in his previous election and term rants - now he is insane enough to even encourage others to "attack" NATO members.

And it is solely Russia's attack onto Ukraine that caused foremost front line NATO states, to significantly increase their defense spending, and e.g. Poland's own hegemonic interests.

The European NATO incl. Canada is paying US$ 380 billion for it's defense - and Russia's defense budget is at US$ 60 billion - now after it's currency depreciation it is less then US$ 30 billion. You MAGA's and your Trump, are plain ignorant and stupid.

And Europe's NATO member politicians (all fake democracies) are all incapable and corrupt - therefore defense industry lobbyists, now making intensive use of Trumps ludicrous and treasonous statement, to increase/push totally unnecessary military projects on behalf of their own defense industry and of those US defense lobbyists.

China, Russia, India, etc. etc. are laughing their heads off - and can't wait for a ludicrous Trump to run the USA and finally **** up the US global hegemonic supremacy in a totally irresponsible manner. And only MAGA idiots, believe that a USA without global hegemonic supremacy could survive economically at the present given state.

Ok, so in your highlighted text about what Trump said, I will now ask these questions - Do you seriously think that Trump meant that he would allow Russia to attack a NATO nation or was it that he was just being Trump in the fear mongering negotiating category dept, otherwise by trying to get NATO nation's through his rhetoric, to begin to take some of the heat off of America when it comes to us leading the charge in assisting a nation that is caught up in a hot war with a nuclear power house ? Think about it.

So what I'm asking you, is if you think that there is a method hidden within Trump's accused madness, and if so, is it because he sees the dangers involved by having the U.S. and Russia actually being caught up in a proxy war all because of the way that it has unfolded thus far ??? As the battle rages on, could it be that Trump is weary because Putin is losing a lot of men and equipment on the battlefield in that theater, and it's because of the United States mainly being mostly involved as the lead in result of ????

Is it that he feels that Putin might look at America as being a huge factor in the destruction of his men and equipment in that war, and especially so if we are being hung out to dry ????

So is it that Trump's concern's is that America is being put in front of the charge to help Ukraine oust their invader's from that country, and so his concerns is because of the USA being placed in front without the balanced help of the allies to keep the responsibility spread even across the board in so that the efforts are more equally looked at ???

Is Trump trying to decouple us from the possibility of becoming front and center in the target zone, otherwise if Russia decides to go for it, and start pushing buttons ??

What are your assurances that if we stay in the game in an unequal way, that we will have a relief pitcher to also take the mound in order to pitch the game so we can be relieved when necessary??

Does your understanding of paying one's fair share interpret to mean that NATO is to do it's part completely or does it just focus on the money part, and if it's all about the money, does it make your post a very good reply ???? Possibly !!!!

Without drilling down on TRUMP in order to get the real meaning of his words spoken, then all anyone can do is depend on how he done his job the last time he was in office, and so I ask was he guilty of the charge that he would immediately cause world war three if he were to get elected back in 2016 ?? The history shows that Trump kept the nation out of war, and that the Biden administration has kept us in war.

Good debate - Let's go.......

 

[Ringo]

A WAR OF LIES
The war in Ukraine is based on lies — lies about how it started, how it’s going, and how it will end.
We are told that Ukraine is winning when in fact it is losing. We are told that the war makes NATO stronger when in fact it is depleting it. We are told that Ukraine’s biggest problem is a lack of funds from the U.S. Congress when in fact the West can’t produce enough ammunition — a problem that will take years to fix. We are told that Russia is suffering greater casualties when in fact Ukraine is running out of soldiers — another problem money can’t fix.
We are told that the world is with us when in fact the Global Majority believes U.S. policy is the height of folly. We are told that there is no opportunity to make peace when in fact we have rejected multiple opportunities for a negotiated settlement. We are told that if Ukraine keeps fighting, it will improve its negotiating position when in fact the terms will only get much worse than what was already available and rejected.

Nevertheless the lies will succeed in dragging out the war. Congress will appropriate more funds. Russia will take more territory. Ukraine will mobilize more young men and women to feed into the meat grinder. Discontent will mount. Eventually there will be a crisis in Kiev and the Zelensky government will be toppled.

And then, when the war is finally lost, when the whole country lays in smoldering ruins on a funeral pyre of their own making, the liars will say “well we tried.” Having prevented any alternative, having smeared anyone who told the truth as puppets for the enemy, the liars will say “We did our best. We stood up to Putin.”

In fact, they will claim, we would have succeeded but for the fifth column of Putin apologists who stabbed the Ukrainians in the back. Then, having shifted blame and patted themselves on the back, they will blithely move on to the next war, as they moved onto Ukraine after their disasters in Afghanistan and Iraq. The lies are comprehensive — but they will work (с) David Sacks

 

[eagle1462010]

A WAR OF LIES
The war in Ukraine is based on lies — lies about how it started, how it’s going, and how it will end.
We are told that Ukraine is winning when in fact it is losing. We are told that the war makes NATO stronger when in fact it is depleting it. We are told that Ukraine’s biggest problem is a lack of funds from the U.S. Congress when in fact the West can’t produce enough ammunition — a problem that will take years to fix. We are told that Russia is suffering greater casualties when in fact Ukraine is running out of soldiers — another problem money can’t fix.
We are told that the world is with us when in fact the Global Majority believes U.S. policy is the height of folly. We are told that there is no opportunity to make peace when in fact we have rejected multiple opportunities for a negotiated settlement. We are told that if Ukraine keeps fighting, it will improve its negotiating position when in fact the terms will only get much worse than what was already available and rejected.

Nevertheless the lies will succeed in dragging out the war. Congress will appropriate more funds. Russia will take more territory. Ukraine will mobilize more young men and women to feed into the meat grinder. Discontent will mount. Eventually there will be a crisis in Kiev and the Zelensky government will be toppled.

And then, when the war is finally lost, when the whole country lays in smoldering ruins on a funeral pyre of their own making, the liars will say “well we tried.” Having prevented any alternative, having smeared anyone who told the truth as puppets for the enemy, the liars will say “We did our best. We stood up to Putin.”

In fact, they will claim, we would have succeeded but for the fifth column of Putin apologists who stabbed the Ukrainians in the back. Then, having shifted blame and patted themselves on the back, they will blithely move on to the next war, as they moved onto Ukraine after their disasters in Afghanistan and Iraq. The lies are comprehensive — but they will work (с) David Sacks

No one made Ukraine fight. If they wanted Russia they would have not done so.

The EU just approved 50 Billion in assistance. So its up to Europe now.

We want our ******* Border fixed and are at a time of not any foreign assistance til the shit here ends.

 

[Kruska]

Ok, so in your highlighted text about what Trump said, I will now ask these questions - Do you seriously think that Trump meant that he would allow Russia to attack a NATO nation or was it that he was just being Trump in the fear mongering negotiating category dept, otherwise by trying to get NATO nation's through his rhetoric, to begin to take some of the heat off of America when it comes to us leading the charge in assisting a nation that is caught up in a hot war with a nuclear power house ? Think about it.

As I had already stated: No it doesn't make sense at all to "read" into Trumps mind nor thoughts. Since you yourself place the question if Trump can be taken seriously. No he can't, he is a loudmouth, a dilettante wannabe politician who lies all the way - simply trying to garner votes from those that are defying the US Democrats policy as a whole.

So what I'm asking you, is if you think that there is a method hidden within Trump's accused madness, and if so, is it because he sees the dangers involved by having the U.S. and Russia actually being caught up in a proxy war all because of the way that it has unfolded thus far ??? As the battle rages on, could it be that Trump is weary because Putin is losing a lot of men and equipment on the battlefield in that theater, and it's because of the United States mainly being mostly involved as the lead in result of ????

See my above statement.
Ukraine is NOT a proxy war - it is a classic war caused via US hegemonic interests (vital for the USA and it's economy). The EU has it's own hegemonic interests towards Ukraine/Russia - clearly evident via the joint policy of the EU and the USA towards the Eastward Expansion of NATO. (The latter foremost driven by the USA) That Russia also has it's vital hegemonic interests - especially next to it's own border (not 6000 mls away like the USA), is understood.

Long before Russia attacked Ukraine, the EU and the USA have been training and enforcing/upgrading the UAF. Following the exact same concept as in regards to Croatia - therefore being able to soundly defeat Serbia. Ukraine was to follow the exact same pattern - however Putin was faster - aka attacked (around 2-3 years, BEFORE the Ukraine could effectively pose a serious military danger.

Is it that he feels that Putin might look at America as being a huge factor in the destruction of his men and equipment in that war,

Take a guess - don't you think it's obvious that any Russian will look at it this way?

So is it that Trump's concern's is that America is being put in front of the charge to help Ukraine oust their invader's from that country, and so his concerns is because of the USA being placed in front without the balanced help of the allies to keep the responsibility spread even across the board in so that the efforts are more equally looked at ???

The USA and the EU wanted it that way, and therefore caused a war. Does Trump have a valid alternative to US foreign policy that has been solely using it's military strength since 1898 to enforce it's hegemonic global interests? - NO absolutely not - see his dilettante trade-war with China, and his total inability to deal with countries such as Iran, Russia, China, Afghanistan, etc. etc.

Is Trump trying to decouple us from the possibility of becoming front and center in the target zone, otherwise if Russia decides to go for it, and start pushing buttons ??

He is backstabbing US global hegemonic interests (the very ones that provided the $$ for the American lifestyle since 1898) without having the slightest idea as how to maintain it. Or an alternative foreign policy that would replace military enforcement with .....?? He is simply ******* up the USA, with propagated loudmoth garbage and his crowd cheers him on.

The USA's internal political issues - pro LGBT or in definace of LGBT, pro gun or anti-gun, teaching genderism or not in school, sex-change issues pertaing to sports - have no say or matter in international policy. However Trump is using every single topic to garner votes - whilst endangering world peace and screwing up the USA's position and it's standing in the world. Just to again "play" president, get his golfplay paid for, whilst jetting the Globe with Airforce One to conduct his very own private business and get off scot-free for his crimes.

What are your assurances that if we stay in the game in an unequal way, that we will have a relief pitcher to also take the mound in order to pitch the game so we can be relieved when necessary??

NATO has relentlessly backed every single US military escapade (aside from WMD in Iraq) They even bought in and thus support this idiotic war in Afghanistan. Why do you think that NATO troops are e.g. in Africa? Because US global hegemonic interests, do not allow for Russia to gain influence in Africa. However it is the USA that did not support European NATO members in regards to e.g. Falklands, the Suez-crisis, Greece being attacked by Turkey, or in regards to Libya.

Does your understanding of paying one's fair share interpret to mean that NATO is to do it's part completely or does it just focus on the money part, and if it's all about the money, does it make your post a very good reply ???? Possibly !!!!

What is a "fair share"? who came up with this 2% Guideline? Solely the USA, that was spending at average 5% to maintain it's very own vital global hegemonic interests. From 1990 till 2022 - the European NATO outspend Russia by a factor of 7:1 annually, - they need 2% for what??

It is solely the USA that can't afford to compete with China on it's own whilst taking care of all it's other global hegemonic interests - therefore they seek relief/support via the European NATO - since it is evident that the European NATO has jumped onto the bandwagon led by the USA to counter China - WTF is a German frigate, patrolling 12,000 mls away, the South-China Sea for??? WTF do German Eurofighters need to fly 10000 mls away, to Australia for??? WTF is a German frigate patrolling the Red-Sea for???, None of these areas has anything to do with NATO. And only for this purpose, (support US global hegemonic interests) the European NATO needs to increase it's "defense" budget.

WE EUROPEANS are supposed to pay for the US military!!! - to ensure US global supremacy. Get your facts straight, mate.

Without drilling down on TRUMP in order to get the real meaning of his words spoken, then all anyone can do is depend on how he done his job the last time he was in office, and so I ask was he guilty of the charge that he would immediately cause world war three if he were to get elected back in 2016 ?? The history shows that Trump kept the nation out of war, and that the Biden administration has kept us in war.

Trump did NOTHING to keep Ukraine neutral, he did nothing to get the USA and it's allies out of Afghanistan in an appropriate way - his Taliban talks, made NATO and the USA look as stupid as never before. He compromised the unity between the European NATO and the USA with his "fake bill" bull, already years before now even encouraging others to attack NATO members.

Did he pull out US troops in Syria? and Africa - the US engagement in Syria is in breach of international law. He even made the way free for Iran and N-Korea to pursue their nuke ambitions. He was unable to get into an agreement with Russia and China to restrict medium range missiles, or any kind of agreement in favor for the USA or Europe. Do you have any idea as to how much the USA spends every year for a hopeless and totally inefective conducted anti-guerilla war in the Philippines since the 80'ies ???

Good debate - Let's go.......

There is absolutely no need to debate about Trump - since MAGA's simply adhere to whatever bull he propagates, which he does solely in order to give MAGA's the "impression" that he cares about their existing worries or demands. That are ALL well known since the "unrest" that occurred in the USA, since a Mulatto became US President. (Trump simply makes use of the existing known discontent, to garner votes) He doesn't give a rats ass about their "wants" - only HIS personal financial and ego wants.

Having said that, let me add; I am in no way in agreement with the policy of the US Democrats, who are just as corrupt and crime ridden as Trump and the GOP - and all are open to manipulation by Lefty/Libs to solely ensure their power aka their "jobs" and income.

Human scumbag Trump is supposed to change all that to the better??? - and is supposedly able and willing to do that?? - keep kidding yourself, whilst he is totally screwing up of what is left of the USA.

My favorite photo of him - demonstrating his dishonest human scumbag character, to the entire world, whilst taking MAGA's for a ride.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

what percent does Russia spend? and quit comparing the entire alliance as if it were one country. The fact is that individually most nations in the EU have pitiful militaries.

 

[jbrownson0831]

trump is a Russian asset and a convenient fool for Poootin. And you show yourself as treasonous.

More great Trump campaigning jimboliar.....the stupider you get the more votes for your Trumpy.