CDZ Trump and Narcissism...How is it we've not heard much about this in the news???

[baileyn45]

I would go further, and say that he is at least a borderline psychopath

Exaggerated sense of self-worth

Incapable of empathy

No respect for others' property

Incapable of taking responsibility for his actions

Treats others as mere objects

Incapable of remorse

Sounds like a description of Hillary.

 

[320 Years of History]

Several leading psychologists have asserted that Donald Trump is a narcissist.

• Basic explanation of what narcissism is.
• Discussion of what to expect from a narcissist.

It comes as no surprise to me to read that Mr. Trump is a narcissist; just listen to him. It's also not difficult to understand the broad appeal of narcissists. I have no problem with them as entertainers. The question in my mind is this. Would I willfully vote for one to be President of the United States? In a word, NO! Why wold anyone?

Did you vote for Obama?

Do you have a comment that's ON TOPIC?

Off Topic:
I don't think the question, one that is obviously rhetorical, is off topic. Boss is making the point, like someone else has, that narcissism is a trait that in some way most Presidents will have. It was in recognition of that reality that I added the "Edit" to my OP and again in post #9.

Now as to why he chose to cite Mr. Obama rather than any other recent President for whom I was eligible to vote (I was born in 1959.), well I have no idea. Why, given that my profile information page and multiple posts show that I've only ever been eligible to vote in D.C. elections, whom I voted for even matters is beyond me. I live and vote in one jurisdiction within the 48 contiguous states where I could vote for any Republican all day long, and it'd never had made a difference.

To the best of my knowledge, the Republican Party doesn't even hold Presidential primary events (stump speeches, etc.) in D.C., but it'll eagerly accept checks from D.C. Republicans or anyone else. (I'm not a Republican; I'm an Independent.) Similarly, I don't believe the Democrats hold any such events in D.C. either. D.C.'s three electoral votes are so securely Democratic that no candidate or party needs to spend it's time and money in D.C.

That's not to say there are no Republican permanent residents of D.C. There are. The ones whom I know are the ones who, like me, want (1) D.C. to be given "on the floor" voting representation in Congress, or (2) D.C. residents absolved from having to pay federal income taxes. I happen to be indifferent about which of those two options come to be; I can live just fine with either.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Several leading psychologists have asserted that Donald Trump is a narcissist.

• Basic explanation of what narcissism is.
• Discussion of what to expect from a narcissist.

It comes as no surprise to me to read that Mr. Trump is a narcissist; just listen to him. It's also not difficult to understand the broad appeal of narcissists. I have no problem with them as entertainers. The question in my mind is this. Would I willfully vote for one to be President of the United States? In a word, NO! Why wold anyone?

Edit:
I should have included above that I recognize that narcissism exists in many Presidents and candidates. It's not as much about whether they are or not as it is about whether it is a healthy narcissism. What does that seemingly oxymoronic term mean? Well for the answer to that click here.

Did you vote for Obama? Will you be voting for Hillary?

 

[320 Years of History]

Several leading psychologists have asserted that Donald Trump is a narcissist.

• Basic explanation of what narcissism is.
• Discussion of what to expect from a narcissist.

It comes as no surprise to me to read that Mr. Trump is a narcissist; just listen to him. It's also not difficult to understand the broad appeal of narcissists. I have no problem with them as entertainers. The question in my mind is this. Would I willfully vote for one to be President of the United States? In a word, NO! Why wold anyone?

Edit:
I should have included above that I recognize that narcissism exists in many Presidents and candidates. It's not as much about whether they are or not as it is about whether it is a healthy narcissism. What does that seemingly oxymoronic term mean? Well for the answer to that click here.

Trump is not a narcissist. Unlike narcissists like Bush, Carson, Rubio, Christie, Romney and Cruz, Trump has empathy for people. Generally narcissists don't care about anyone but themselves.

Trump would never close a bridge like Christie because Trump would consider the consequences for people.

Trump raised good kids unlike Bush whose kids are all convicted felons.

Trump shows up for work unlike Rubio who thinks its OK to shirk his responsibilities.

Carson's autobiography is text book narcissism.

Romney is a pathological liar who has no empathy for anyone. His 46% comments and his destruction of companies prove that.

Red:
You watched the last GOP debate, right? Tell that to the lady whose home Mr. Trump wanted to take for his casino.

Blue:
I suppose the work of a Presidential candidate doesn't include participating in a scheduled GOP debate in an effort to bolster his odds of winning the primary.

• Donald Trump says skipping debate might have cost him in Iowa - CNNPolitics.com

 

[320 Years of History]

Did you vote for Obama? Will you be voting for Hillary?

I will not answer the first question because it's none of your business.

I don't know for whom I'll vote in the upcoming Presidential election. I'm a registered Independent and thus not eligible to vote in the primaries.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Did you vote for Obama? Will you be voting for Hillary?

I will not answer the first question because it's none of your business.

I don't know for whom I'll vote in the upcoming Presidential election. I'm a registered Independent and thus not eligible to vote in the primaries.

Do you classify Obama and Hillary as narcissists?

 

[320 Years of History]

Did you vote for Obama? Will you be voting for Hillary?

I will not answer the first question because it's none of your business.

I don't know for whom I'll vote in the upcoming Presidential election. I'm a registered Independent and thus not eligible to vote in the primaries.

Do you classify Obama and Hillary as narcissists?

Did you read the content found at the link in the edit I posted to my OP? If you did, you know what I think about their being or not being narcissists.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Did you vote for Obama? Will you be voting for Hillary?

I will not answer the first question because it's none of your business.

I don't know for whom I'll vote in the upcoming Presidential election. I'm a registered Independent and thus not eligible to vote in the primaries.

Do you classify Obama and Hillary as narcissists?

Did you read the content found at the link in the edit I posted to my OP? If you did, you know what I think about their being or not being narcissists.

Please answer a simple direct question. I repeat; do you classify Obama and Hillary as narcissists?

 

[320 Years of History]

Did you vote for Obama? Will you be voting for Hillary?

I will not answer the first question because it's none of your business.

I don't know for whom I'll vote in the upcoming Presidential election. I'm a registered Independent and thus not eligible to vote in the primaries.

Do you classify Obama and Hillary as narcissists?

Did you read the content found at the link in the edit I posted to my OP? If you did, you know what I think about their being or not being narcissists.

Please answer a simple direct question. I repeat; do you classify Obama and Hillary as narcissists?

I believe both of them, along with several GOP candidates, are healthy narcissists, because as Dr. Malkin points out, they "inspire without undermining; they lead with conviction not cruelty; they bring out the best, not the worst in people around them."

As I wrote in the edit to my OP, I recognize that a great many Presidential hopefuls and other leaders are narcissists; thus it's important to understand the distinction between an healthy one and an unhealthy one.

The recognition that I'd not originally articulated that distinction, engendered by the initial comments posted after my OP, made it clear to me that a meaningful share of the audience here may not be aware that there are types of narcissism. That is why I feel obliged to include the edit to my OP.

 

[Rouge Rover]

Where is healthy narcissism mentioned in your OP Vanity Fair article?

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Did you vote for Obama? Will you be voting for Hillary?

I will not answer the first question because it's none of your business.

I don't know for whom I'll vote in the upcoming Presidential election. I'm a registered Independent and thus not eligible to vote in the primaries.

Do you classify Obama and Hillary as narcissists?

Did you read the content found at the link in the edit I posted to my OP? If you did, you know what I think about their being or not being narcissists.

Please answer a simple direct question. I repeat; do you classify Obama and Hillary as narcissists?

I believe both of them, along with several GOP candidates, are healthy narcissists, because as Dr. Malkin points out, they "inspire without undermining; they lead with conviction not cruelty; they bring out the best, not the worst in people around them."

As I wrote in the edit to my OP, I recognize that a great many Presidential hopefuls and other leaders are narcissists; thus it's important to understand the distinction between an healthy one and an unhealthy one.

The recognition that I'd not originally articulated that distinction, engendered by the initial comments posted after my OP, made it clear to me that a meaningful share of the audience here may not be aware that there are types of narcissism. That is why I feel obliged to include the edit to my OP.

That's a load of nonsense. Narcissism by definition turns off people. It alienates. You can claim degrees of narcissism. But there's no such thing as healthy narcissism. You made a fake argument against Trump basically. You're not mad that he's a narcissist. You're mad that he isn't your narcissist.

 

[Rouge Rover]

I will not answer the first question because it's none of your business.

I don't know for whom I'll vote in the upcoming Presidential election. I'm a registered Independent and thus not eligible to vote in the primaries.

Do you classify Obama and Hillary as narcissists?

Did you read the content found at the link in the edit I posted to my OP? If you did, you know what I think about their being or not being narcissists.

Please answer a simple direct question. I repeat; do you classify Obama and Hillary as narcissists?

I believe both of them, along with several GOP candidates, are healthy narcissists, because as Dr. Malkin points out, they "inspire without undermining; they lead with conviction not cruelty; they bring out the best, not the worst in people around them."

As I wrote in the edit to my OP, I recognize that a great many Presidential hopefuls and other leaders are narcissists; thus it's important to understand the distinction between an healthy one and an unhealthy one.

The recognition that I'd not originally articulated that distinction, engendered by the initial comments posted after my OP, made it clear to me that a meaningful share of the audience here may not be aware that there are types of narcissism. That is why I feel obliged to include the edit to my OP.

That's a load of nonsense. Narcissism by definition turns off people. It alienates. You can claim degrees of narcissism. But there's no such thing as healthy narcissism. You made a fake argument against Trump basically. You're not mad that he's a narcissist. You're mad that he isn't your narcissist.

To reiterate...WINNER!!!!

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Where is healthy narcissism mentioned in your OP Vanity Fair article?

Even the implication that such a thing allegedly exists was hastily added as an edit when he realized that he'd end up having to defend his own narcissistic candidates.

 

[Boss]

Boss is making the point, like someone else has, that narcissism is a trait that in some way most Presidents will have. It was in recognition of that reality that I added the "Edit" to my OP and again in post #9.

Now as to why he chose to cite Mr. Obama rather than any other recent President for whom I was eligible to vote (I was born in 1959.), well I have no idea.

Because I don't agree and that wasn't the point I made. Obama is a narcissist. Most presidents are not. Most presidents, whether they do so while in office or not, admit their errors and faults. They also credit their staff and the people around them for their success and they thank the Americans who supported them and believed in what they were doing.

Can presidents SEEM to be a bit narcissistic sometimes? Of course! I think it comes with the territory and is part of politics. But narcissism is often confused with confidence. Most presidents have a lot of self confidence, that's how they won the presidency. That does not make them narcissists.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Boss is making the point, like someone else has, that narcissism is a trait that in some way most Presidents will have. It was in recognition of that reality that I added the "Edit" to my OP and again in post #9.

Now as to why he chose to cite Mr. Obama rather than any other recent President for whom I was eligible to vote (I was born in 1959.), well I have no idea.

Because I don't agree and that wasn't the point I made. Obama is a narcissist. Most presidents are not. Most presidents, whether they do so while in office or not, admit their errors and faults. They also credit their staff and the people around them for their success and they thank the Americans who supported them and believed in what they were doing.

Can presidents SEEM to be a bit narcissistic sometimes? Of course! I think it comes with the territory and is part of politics. But narcissism is often confused with confidence. Most presidents have a lot of self confidence, that's how they won the presidency. That does not make them narcissists.

Presidents are natural BS'ers. Narcissism tends to go hand and hand with that. But yes, someone like Obama is probably the most narcissistic president we've ever had.

 

[Boss]

Presidents are natural BS'ers.

Isn't this pretty much true with ANY politician? Don't they kinda HAVE to be?

 

[Agit8r]

I would go further, and say that he is at least a borderline psychopath

Exaggerated sense of self-worth

Incapable of empathy

No respect for others' property

Incapable of taking responsibility for his actions

Treats others as mere objects

Incapable of remorse

Sounds like a description of Hillary.

Bah! She seems capable of empathy. Also doesn't treat others as objects. And... um, yeah

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Presidents are natural BS'ers.

Isn't this pretty much true with ANY politician? Don't they kinda HAVE to be?

In theory, there's some genuine politicians. They tend to be at local levels. Sadly, there might not be one in the lot in national politics. But I believe politicians are a reflection of society. So, the indictment is against society for that.

 

[Boss]

Presidents are natural BS'ers.

Isn't this pretty much true with ANY politician? Don't they kinda HAVE to be?

In theory, there's some genuine politicians. They tend to be at local levels. Sadly, there might not be one in the lot in national politics. But I believe politicians are a reflection of society. So, the indictment is against society for that.

Exactly. I have said for a LONG time, the biggest problem with our system is that we continue to do the same thing over and over again. Regardless of which party you support or whether you are "right/left" in your views.... you typically are going to vote for the politician who promises to use his political power to "do something for you" and disregard what might be the best thing for the country as a whole. Now, to "do something for you" they typically mean, using their power to take something from someone and give it to someone else. It may be money, rights, authority or whatever.

Walter E. Williams pointed this out once, and I love the way he did it... He said, "People often ask me why I don't run for office and I tell them, because I wouldn't stand a chance of being elected to office." He went on to explain, he would campaign by telling people... I don't think government should be doing about 90% of the stuff they are doing so I won't be "bringing home the bacon" or doing anything FOR you as your representative. How many votes do you think I would get?

You see, it is the very NATURE of government to grow bigger and more expansive, and in the process, consume more of our personal liberty as individuals. The founders feared this and that is why Ben Franklin was quoted as saying, when asked by someone, what type of government have you given us... "A republic, if you can keep it!" No sooner than the ink was dry on the Constitution, we began the political process of changing it to a democracy. But Madison and Jefferson wrote about this and warned of it... they knew that government's natural state was to continue to grow... government doesn't restrict or limit itself... it can't, by nature.

We exacerbate that process by continually electing politicians who promise to use the power of government to make government bigger and more intrusive. To implement more legislation... more regulations... more programs... more things done in the name of "helping" us... while government just continues to get bigger. WE are the problem!

 

[320 Years of History]

I will not answer the first question because it's none of your business.

I don't know for whom I'll vote in the upcoming Presidential election. I'm a registered Independent and thus not eligible to vote in the primaries.

Do you classify Obama and Hillary as narcissists?

Did you read the content found at the link in the edit I posted to my OP? If you did, you know what I think about their being or not being narcissists.

Please answer a simple direct question. I repeat; do you classify Obama and Hillary as narcissists?

I believe both of them, along with several GOP candidates, are healthy narcissists, because as Dr. Malkin points out, they "inspire without undermining; they lead with conviction not cruelty; they bring out the best, not the worst in people around them."

As I wrote in the edit to my OP, I recognize that a great many Presidential hopefuls and other leaders are narcissists; thus it's important to understand the distinction between an healthy one and an unhealthy one.

The recognition that I'd not originally articulated that distinction, engendered by the initial comments posted after my OP, made it clear to me that a meaningful share of the audience here may not be aware that there are types of narcissism. That is why I feel obliged to include the edit to my OP.

That's a load of nonsense. Narcissism by definition turns off people. It alienates. You can claim degrees of narcissism. But there's no such thing as healthy narcissism. You made a fake argument against Trump basically. You're not mad that he's a narcissist. You're mad that he isn't your narcissist.

I didn't coin the idea of healthy narcissism. I merely applied it to Mr. Trump and have attempted to bring it to the attention of others.

I'm in no position to credibly refute a medical doctor's explanation of healthy narcissism, unhealthy narcissism, or whether there is such a thing as a range of narcissism. Are you?

Red:
The best I could do, and what I did, was look for scholarly research/writings that support the premise that there is such a thing.

• The Narcissist Leader or Employee. - Advancing the Practice of Personal Responsibility
  
• Development and Validation of the Single Item Narcissism Scale (SINS)
• Unraveling the Paradoxes of Narcissism: A Dynamic Self-Regulatory Processing Model

That's the due diligence I performed before creating this thread. I'll happily read material you present that refutes the legitimacy of a scale of narcissism; however, not knowing a damn thing about you and your published works pertaining to the disorder or others, and having none of my own, I won't just accept your assertion that the idea or verity of existence of different types of narcissism is "a load of nonsense."