To all of the "neither candidate is good and you are all being duped by the deep state" crowd,
The problem with your POV is that facts exist. Look to the facts and the path reveals itself.
Yeah, really doesn’t matter who you are supporting, the idea that you know the facts and anyone who disagrees with you is lost, is some of the most ignorant nonsense our society is dealing with right now. While I wouldn’t vote for President Trump to be my village dog catcher, I know plenty of caring, thoughtful people who see him as needed to stem the tide of over reaching government. When I talk to these folks and try to change their minds, I don’t start by calling “******* idiots”, I reserve that distinction for folks who display their idiocy in what they have to say.
Are you suggesting there's not a right thing to do, and that people aren't personally responsible if they cannot understand what a fact is?
No I am not, I am suggesting that you alone are not the arbiter of what is or is not factual and what conclusions can be drawn.
That's trivial - nobody is the arbiter of what a fact is besides reality. Just because someone recognizes what the facts are, doesnt mean theyre the ones deciding its a fact...glad I could clear up that distinction, though...because it seems to me that in the interest of some magical fairness you're suggesting that everyone is entitled to their own facts.
No, what I am saying, is that raw data is factual, but what we all do is use our reason to extrapolate truth out of those facts. I am not defending those who willfully stick their heads in the sand and deny reality. I am simply suggesting that reasonable people can have reasonable disagreements about what the facts “mean”. This is not me saying, Alternative Facts are anything but lies, but I am suggesting like an statistician will tell you, numbers can be manipulated to derive meaning almost any meaning, yet they are factual.
What you are saying is
completely trivial. If you think the only way to conclude that Trump is and has been bad for the Country is by arbitrary opinion, and the facts cannot support that - then it's not by some colloquial interpretation of the facts to say that you are wrong, and perhaps stupid. Universal you, in the hypothetical...not you you. You knew that.
Which you?
The letter. The letter u.
Or two of them, or the letter that says two of them. Double you. Or W.
Great, insults.
All I am saying is that a reasonable person can completely disagree with you while looking at the same data. Maybe they believe that immigration and people of color are destroying our culture. I disagree with them, but the second you say they have no right to express that opinion at all, you are betraying democratic norms. There is a reason the ACLU fought for the rights of Nazis to hold a march. Freedom belongs to everyone or no one. By the way, all I have advocated for is not dismissing people before you hear why they think what they think. I fear that you do not see how your unwillingness to accept the ability of others to disagree With you, without being wrong, exists whether you wish to accept it or not. And you are exposing the most legitimate criticism of the modern left, you are intolerant of any type of digression from the doctrines of critical theory.
If your curious where that leads check out China under Mao and that is not hyperbol.
Everyone doesn't get their own set of facts, and it doesn't matter how emotional or unfair that makes you feel, or anyone else either.
Also, it's really ******* weird you're accusing me of wanting anyone to have no right to express their opinion. What the ****? Nobody said that. <-- see, that's a fact, and you don't get to interpret it any other way except to say, 'oh, haha, yeah I guess you're not saying that anyone
isn't entitled to their opinions...I'm just saying that you GT are NOT entitled to YOURS, that they're stupid.'
Wow, you didn’t read what I wrote or I failed to make it clear enough. I get you.
I read it just fine - you implied that someone is trying to take someone's rights.. (you:
I disagree with them, but the second you say they have no right to express that opinion at all, you are betraying democratic norms.)... away, by calling them stupid....and then went on a diatribe about why taking their rights away is bad.
Since I did none of that and didnt even imply anyone should have their rights taken away, it was just dumb of you to say all of that. You are saying trivial shit over and over again because of your antipathy for calling a spade a spade, a dumb opinion, a lack of a grasp of the facts...stupid. Reality can suck sometimes, and some people are pretty ******* stupid. Hence: Trump.
When you say, I know the facts so I am the authority for truth, you are attempting to curtail someone else’s speech. Why is this idea so hard for you to understand? Democratic norms dictate that reasonable people can have reasonable discussions. When you present the idea that the only explanation for someone to support Trump is that they are stupid, you not only dismiss the foundation of open discussion but you also make it hard for them to care about anything else you have to say. What I mean by that is, if you want others to respect what you have to say, start by respecting their right to have an opinion you think is wrong.
How in the world you continue to take issue with that is difficult for me to understand.
When you say, I know the facts so I am the authority for truth, you are attempting to curtail someone else’s speech. Why is this idea so hard for you to understand?
Because it's a false premise, and I didn't say it. You just have a hard time grasping that, that's not on me.
start by respecting their right
Respecting their right? I respect their right by my support of the 1st amendment. Respecting their right is not the same as respecting their content. ******* DUH. That outlines your confusion, perfectly. Hopefully you get it now.
Ok, you are still talking past me and not to me. No worries.
But understand you are attacking me because I don’t think it is fair or productive for you to dismiss support for Trump as “some people are pretty ******* stupid“. You are going down the same road that allowed Trump to beat Hillary in 2016. Not sure how you feel about that, but I’d guess if you could you’d go back in time and stop Hillary from calling almost 45% of the people who vote, deplorable, you would.
I don't apologize for my take, if that's what you're trying to get me to say. I offer no excuse for someone's support of a guy who brags about being in the locker rooms of teenaged girls, has been a known perv. since the 90s, has had back and forth fights with Magazines over the years for not acknowledging he is as rich as he says he is...can be found on video after video after video after video lying...and not only out of context, but literally pairs of videos where he says one thing on one, and something contradictory on another...
No excuse, and no excuse for supporting the most divisive President we've ever had.
Sorry not sorry - support of him is ******* stupid, sorry that hurts your or anyone's feelings but the facts are in: he's a liar, he's a womanizer, he says nefarious things about underaged girls, those are clearly disqualifying all by themselves without getting into the 6, 000 other things wrong with the fuckin' guy.
I've no problem supporting that, and you can't say @oh but biden@ because I'm not a Biden supporter and offer no excuses there, either. So...
And you can quit accusing me of trying to take anyone's rights away. That's just stupid, you're not hearing that from me. Just tough love. Trump support is stupid.
www.propublica.org
