Trinity

[Mortimer]

Trinity is monotheistic even if Jews and Muslims reject it as idolatry. Christians consider themselves monotheistic and believe that there is only one God, but that he has 3 persons. How H2O the water molecule can be liquid, gas or solid / ice and nevertheless it is always H2O. How a person is but has body, mind and soul. I think we can observe the Trinity in the Bible but also in creation over and over again. Humanity descends from 3 sons of Noah, Japhet, Shem and Ham. The ancestors of Israel are Jacob, Israel and Isaac, because the God of Abraham became the God of Jacobs, Isaac and Israel. That's 3 again.

 

[Mortimer]

 

[Colin norris]

Trinity is monotheistic even if Jews and Muslims reject it as idolatry. Christians consider themselves monotheistic and believe that there is only one God, but that he has 3 persons. How H2O the water molecule can be liquid, gas or solid / ice and nevertheless it is always H2O. How a person is but has body, mind and soul. I think we can observe the Trinity in the Bible but also in creation over and over again. Humanity descends from 3 sons of Noah, Japhet, Shem and Ham. The ancestors of Israel are Jacob, Israel and Isaac, because the God of Abraham became the God of Jacobs, Isaac and Israel. That's 3 again.

Eater has no connection whatsoever with any of your silly religious theories.
Mind body and soul? Exactly the same. It's total bullshit.

The was no creator or God and never has been. Not one person on earth has evidence there is including you. It's the greatest fraud ever inflicted on mankind and you should be embarrassed to peddle that rubbish as if fact and teach it to kids. It's disgraceful.

 

[seaofnails]

I honestly just do not see how Trinitarians can answer this question and I have never received an answer from anyone who holds to the Trinity faith.

My question is simply this- - - is there are Trinitarian brother or sister who can answer this one question, ? ? ?

WHY IS YAHASHUA CHANGING / ALTERING and MODIFYING and ADJUSTING / MORPHING and LOWERING and DECREASING and REDUCING HIMSELF -

WHY IS YAHASHUA becoming empty / void and vacant of existing as EQUALLY God and SUDDENDLY SUDDENLY CHANGING HIMSELF TO BECOME A SERVANT OF GOD

WHY IS YAHASHUA SUDDENLY CHANGED AND ALTERED TO THE POINT THAT HE NO LONGER EXISTS TO BE EQUAL TO GOD.

BUT HIMSELF, HE HAS SUDDENLY BECAME EMPTY / changed altered BECOME VOID OF EQUALITY TO GOD

CHANGING INTO SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM THAT WHICH HE PRE EXISTED = CHANGING INTO BECOMING A SERVANT

He is changed and lowered into - THE MORPH OF A SERVANT, RECEIVING IN THE LIKENESS OF MANKIND, HE BECAME.

BUT Trinitarians demand that Jesus always pre existed in heaven in exactly this very form. The Trinitarian Jesus was always existing as a SON OF GOD - ALWAYS IN OBEDIENCE ALWAYS FOLLOWING ORDERS - ALWAYS A SERVANT who TOOK ORDERS FROM THE FATHER.

this is who and what the Trinitarian Jesus - already was ?

is there a Trinitarian who can answer this simple question - please.

 

[seaofnails]

Would you consider that the Trinitarian Translation does not express Jesus as existing " previously " as only simply a prophetic promise to come in the future - the Trinitarian Translations expresses Jesus as existing eternally as the ETERNAL Son

Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but NOW commandeth all men every where to repent:

if The Old Testament believers were worshiping the Trinity Godhead in a manner that was incorrect and false, how then did Jesus would not be existing " previously " as only a prophetic promise and the eternal Son Of God and second person of the Trinity Godhead ?

The Translation is claiming that God had allowed people to incorrectly worship and disregard the true worship and teaching that - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit existed in three persons in one GODHEAD / TRINITY

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but NOW commandeth all men every where to repent: - repent for incorrectly thinking that the godhead / trinity was as art and man's device.

How could someone mistakenly or falsely worship something that was never revealed to them or that they never heard of ?

The Trinitarian Translation presents a second person who already pre existed - who is not coming OUT of God, but who already exists as an ETERNAL SON in heaven with God and is being re - positioned, re - located and moving from one existing position to another, who is being PROMOTED to be seated literally beside { AT or ON } the throne or AT the right hand of God.

The manuscript says - sit OUT OF my right - Sit IN my right

while the Translation says sit AT / ON my right hand

The Translation attempts to invent a Trinitarian Jesus who already exists in heaven, who is not exiting OUT of God to sit IN the right of God - but he, the Son already exists and is here being promoted and re - located, re - positioned, to sit " ON " beside _ TO THE RIGHT OF - the throne of the father.

does that make sense ?

 

[onefour1]

A debate of a trinitarian and a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the topic of the trinity:

 

[ninja007]

the early church always believed in the trinity- we are made in God's image- 3 parts, one person.

 

[ninja007]

20 Bible verses that mention all Trinity members

Here's a list of single Bible verses that explicitly reference all three members of the Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

overviewbible.com

 

[BS Filter]

Scripture reveals God in three persons. For people who say.."That doesn't make sense", I always have to chuckle. God doesn't have to make sense. God is infinite, omnipotent, etc. Nothing is impossible with God. If the fact the trinity doesn't make sense prevents you from believing, then you really don't understand God and you don't believe the miracles in the Scriptures.

 

[onefour1]

So do all Catholics and Protestants believe the Athanasian Creed of the Trinity brought about in the 4th century as follows?

Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all, keep the Catholic faith.
For unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire, he will undoubtedly be lost forever.
This is what the Catholic faith teaches: we worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity.
Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the substance.
For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Spirit.
But the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have one divinity, equal glory, and coeternal majesty.
What the Father is, the Son is, and the Holy Spirit is.
The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, and the Holy Spirit is uncreated.
The Father is boundless, the Son is boundless, and the Holy Spirit is boundless.
The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, and the Holy Spirit is eternal.
Nevertheless, there are not three eternal beings, but one eternal being.
So there are not three uncreated beings, nor three boundless beings, but one uncreated being and one boundless being.
Likewise, the Father is omnipotent, the Son is omnipotent, the Holy Spirit is omnipotent.
Yet there are not three omnipotent beings, but one omnipotent being.

Thus the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.
However, there are not three gods, but one God.
The Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, and the Holy Spirit is Lord.
However, there as not three lords, but one Lord.
For as we are obliged by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person singly to be God and Lord, so too are we forbidden by the Catholic religion to say that there are three Gods or Lords.
The Father was not made, nor created, nor generated by anyone.
The Son is not made, nor created, but begotten by the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit is not made, nor created, nor generated, but proceeds from the Father and the Son.

There is, then, one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
In this Trinity, there is nothing before or after, nothing greater or less. The entire three Persons are coeternal and coequal with one another.
So that in all things, as is has been said above, the Unity is to be worshipped in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity.
He, therefore, who wishes to be saved, must believe thus about the Trinity.

It is also necessary for eternal salvation that he believes steadfastly in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Thus the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and man.

As God, He was begotten of the substance of the Father before time; as man, He was born in time of the substance of His Mother.
He is perfect God; and He is perfect man, with a rational soul and human flesh.
He is equal to the Father in His divinity, but inferior to the Father in His humanity.
Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ.
And He is one, not because His divinity was changed into flesh, but because His humanity was assumed unto God.
He is one, not by a mingling of substances, but by unity of person.
As a rational soul and flesh are one man: so God and man are one Christ.
He died for our salvation, descended into hell, and rose from the dead on the third day.
He ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
At His coming, all men are to arise with their own bodies; and they are to give an account of their own deeds.
Those who have done good deeds will go into eternal life; those who have done evil will go into the everlasting fire.
This is the Catholic faith. Everyone must believe it, firmly and steadfastly; otherwise He cannot be saved.

Amen.

 

[ninja007]

Isaiah 55:8-9 King James Version - Bible Gateway​

Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com › passage › version=KJV





For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways

 

[BS Filter]

So do all Catholics and Protestants believe the Athanasian Creed of the Trinity brought about in the 4th century as follows?

I believe a lot of it. I don't believe the entire part about judgement. My belief is I was judged on the cross with Jesus because I am in Him by faith.

 

[TruthNotBS]

God The Father (God Above), God The Son (God with us), and God The Holy Spirit (God within us).

Joh 14:15-21 If ye love me, keep my commandments. (16) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; (17) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (18) I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. (19) Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. (20) At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. (21) He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

 

[Meriweather]

So do all Catholics and Protestants believe the Athanasian Creed of the Trinity brought about in the 4th century as follows?

Catholics agree about the Trinity...three persons, one God. I do not know the beliefs of all non-Catholic Christians, so I cannot respond to that. In the Fourth Century , there was just the one Christian Church, and 'Catholic' meant open and welcoming to all. It would be over a thousand years before the faith began to split into hundreds of denominations, so I very much doubt the Athanasian Creed was intended to warn people who did not remain Catholic (as Catholic is defined today in modern times) that their salvation is at risk.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Christians consider themselves monotheistic and believe that there is only one God, but that he has 3 persons

Catholics and her daughter churches believe this. You do not speak for all Christians

 

[seaofnails]

.
The reason that many Christians do not believe that the Father, the Spirit, Holy of God and The Lord Jesus are three different SPIRIT PERSONS of God

the reason is because ---- the scriptures clearly tell us that the spirit of God in the Lord Jesus is not multiple, plural spirits - or 3 different spirit persons.

BUT RATHER - as 1Co 12:6 - 7 says And there are DIVERSITIES OF OPERATIONS, but it is the same God, same PERSON - same Spirit - which worketh all in all.

:7 But the MANIFESTATION OF THE SPIRIT is given to every man to profit withal.

the scriptures are not leading the reader to understand that the same God is multiple persons - but that the operation of God is defined as " MANIFESTATION OF THE SPIRIT "

:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge BY THE SAME SPIRIT;
:9 To another faith by the SAME SPIRIT; to another the gifts of healing by the SAME Spirit;
:11 But all these worketh that one and the SELFSAME SPIRIT, dividing to every man severally as he will.
:13 For by ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into ONE SPIRIT.

Eph 2:18 For by him we have access both in ONE Spirit to the Father. - singular spirit
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Joh 14:18 I - Jesus, - I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Mat 10:20 For it is not you that speak, but THE SPIRIT OF YOUR FATHER that speaketh in you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Spirit of the Holy , { Holy Spirit } whom the Father will send in my name, -
Rom 8:15 but you have received the spirit of adoption of sons, whereby we cry: Abba (Father).
Ga 4:6 And because you are sons, God hath sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying: Abba, Father.
Eph 2:18 For by him we have access both in ONE Spirit to the Father. -

this is not a different " spirit person " Joh 14:26 is saying clearly that - - - -- - the Comforter, is the Spirit of the Holy , { Holy Spirit } whom the Father will send in my name, -

Ga 4:6 ------ - And because you are sons, God hath sent the Spirit of his Son -- the Spirit of the Son - this is the Spirit of the Holy , { Holy Spirit } whom the Father will send

The scriptures describe a God who is ONE SPIRIT - SINGULAR ------------ " one spirit person "
it is the spirit of the Father -
and the Son
they both are one SELF SAME SPIRIT,

God is a Spirit and this Spirit is the " selfsame " Spirit that whom is the Comforter, the Spirit of the Holy , { Holy Spirit } whom the Father will send

the Father will send " The Spirit of his Son " ​

:13 For by ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into ONE SPIRIT.

 

[BreezeWood]

H2O the water molecule can be liquid, gas or solid / ice and nevertheless it is always H2O.

no, not at the same time - the trinity can not exist for that reason.

the heavens are a collective of beings w/ one common trait, they are all equal in spiritual purity the one requirement for immortality and the everlasting.

 

[BreezeWood]

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father

so soothing, such a lullaby ... to bad they leave the house to earn their own livelihood.

the 1st century events were meant as a liberation and self determination - their own commandments they would be judged by, no rules but for triumph have ever existed.

 

[theHawk]

I honestly just do not see how Trinitarians can answer this question and I have never received an answer from anyone who holds to the Trinity faith.

My question is simply this- - - is there are Trinitarian brother or sister who can answer this one question, ? ? ?

WHY IS YAHASHUA CHANGING / ALTERING and MODIFYING and ADJUSTING / MORPHING and LOWERING and DECREASING and REDUCING HIMSELF -

WHY IS YAHASHUA becoming empty / void and vacant of existing as EQUALLY God and SUDDENDLY SUDDENLY CHANGING HIMSELF TO BECOME A SERVANT OF GOD

WHY IS YAHASHUA SUDDENLY CHANGED AND ALTERED TO THE POINT THAT HE NO LONGER EXISTS TO BE EQUAL TO GOD.

BUT HIMSELF, HE HAS SUDDENLY BECAME EMPTY / changed altered BECOME VOID OF EQUALITY TO GOD

CHANGING INTO SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM THAT WHICH HE PRE EXISTED = CHANGING INTO BECOMING A SERVANT

He is changed and lowered into - THE MORPH OF A SERVANT, RECEIVING IN THE LIKENESS OF MANKIND, HE BECAME.

BUT Trinitarians demand that Jesus always pre existed in heaven in exactly this very form. The Trinitarian Jesus was always existing as a SON OF GOD - ALWAYS IN OBEDIENCE ALWAYS FOLLOWING ORDERS - ALWAYS A SERVANT who TOOK ORDERS FROM THE FATHER.

this is who and what the Trinitarian Jesus - already was ?

is there a Trinitarian who can answer this simple question - please.

Easy.

In order to save humanity.

 

[seaofnails]

.
Please allow the conclusion to this particular point I was attempting to explain

Being that - the Roman Catholic Institution known as the Church Fathers of Rome and Egypt are the fathers of the Trinity doctrine.

please allow these two Bible Translations to explain the development of the Trinity and how it is presented in the Roman Catholic Translation VERSUS contrasting - the Protestant K.J.V. translation

please - please

NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE TWO TRANSLATION IN HOW THE TRANSLATORS ATTEMPT TO EXPLAIN THE TRINITY

first the - Catholic Douay Rheims - which was translated directly from the Latin Vulgate


Heb 10:12 But this man, offering one sacrifice for sins, for ever sitteth on the right hand of God,


and next the earlier - Catholic Latin Vulgate template


:12 But this man, offering one sacrifice for sins, for ever sitteth on the right hand of God,



and now - the Protestant K.J.V.

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;


what we see here - in the enormous contradiction and massive difference between these two translations is that the Catholic Translation states that Jesus offered one sacrifice for sins, - then a comma " , " Jesus offered one sacrifice for sins, - - ( FOLLOWED BY A COMMA PUNCTUATION MARKING ))

the Catholic translations go on to say " for ever sitteth on the right hand of God, " - -

so the Catholics explain the Trinity to say for sure - Jesus - for ever sitteth on the right hand of God,

however the contradiction and difference is that the Protestant K.J.V. places a comma after the word " forever " - to say that Jesus offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, then the comma " , "
followed by - , sat down on the right hand of God. The K.J.V removes the message that says that Jesus for ever sitteth on the right hand of God because eventually Trinitarians realized that their translation expressly says that Jesus is NOT forever sitting on the right hand of God.

:13 FROM HENCEFORTH EXPECTING UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL.

Mar 12:36 Sit ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thy enemies thy footstool.
Luk 20:42 Sit thou ON my right hand, - UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Act 2:34 Sit thou ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool.
Heb 1:13 Sit ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool?

the translators later translating the Protestant K.J.V. attempted to fix this contradiction by moving and shuffling the punctuation to move the " comma > to translate

-------

after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever ,,,,, - sat down ON the right hand of God;

vs the Catholic

offering one sacrifice for sins,,,,, - for ever sitteth ON the right hand of God,
------------------

Protestants realized that they cannot believe in a Trinitarian Jesus who forever sits ON the right hand of Trinitarian God - but they cannot believe in a Jesus who is not a Trinitarian

so they adjust and simply move a punctuation mark to deny and diminish the very deity of Jesus that had been instituted in the confusing and contradiction of the Trinity Contradiction instituted by their Roman Catholic mother.

Protestants to this day cannot answer the question using their Translation, - when does Jesus be removed and taken away and loose his seat and position of being GLORIFIED to sit at the right hand of God ? ? ?

because to Trinitarians the question simply means to them - when is the seating arrangement in heaven changed for the Trinitarian Jesus

this is not something that Trinitarians can answer because the original manuscripts of the New Testament are so clear and so precise to explain that Jesus is NOW IN the right of God and this is eternal ..... - as they replace the word IN with the words - AT and ON . - Trinitarians are left with no answer from their translations nor do they have concern to answer the question, in fact it is insulting to ask about the manuscript - nor can they remove the underlying message of the manuscript no matter how many passages they change and alter.

after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever ,,,,, - sat down ON the right hand of God;

:13 FROM HENCEFORTH EXPECTING UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL.

Mar 12:36 Sit ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thy enemies thy footstool.

the protestant Trinitarian Jesus does not sit on the right hand of God......... All trinitarian Translations expressly changes the original message to insert the narrative that Jesus is being removed from the glory and right hand of the throne because this is what the Trinity Doctrine was designed and invented to do -

For trinitarians this needs to resolve their trinitarian problem that Jesus the Son Of God does not exist in the first 4000 years of creation in the Old Testament

.​