Tribal Epistemology

[NightFox]

Information is evaluated based not on evidence or a common understanding of the world, but on whether it supports the tribe’s values and goals. “Good for our side” and “true” begin to blur into one.

Donald Trump and the rise of tribal epistemology

Journalism cannot be neutral toward a threat to the conditions that make it possible.

www.vox.com

LOL, It’s always fascinating to watch the pot attempt to psychoanalyze the kettle.

Thick and lathery like a hypocrisy cappuccino.

Fuckin’ Moron.

 

[bripat9643]

I never said that, liar.

Yeah, you pretty much did.

 

[Hellbilly]

Yeah, you pretty much did.

Post the quote

 

[bripat9643]

Post the quote

"The only thing he discovered was that there were people already living here.​

Columbus invaded this land and it really doesn't matter if we were here for 10,000 years OR for 10 minutes. It's still an invasion.​

You live on stolen land, like it or not.​

Nothing you can do or say will change that fact."​

 

[Hellbilly]

"The only thing he discovered was that there were people already living here.​

Columbus invaded this land and it really doesn't matter if we were here for 10,000 years OR for 10 minutes. It's still an invasion.​

You live on stolen land, like it or not.​

Nothing you can do or say will change that fact."​

Nowhere in that quote did I say anything close to what you claimed I said.

 

[sealybobo]

While I hate Amazon…I have to ask, why aren’t they being charged with violating anti-trust law?

Government doesn’t break up monopolies anymore. Airlines, media conglomerates, none of them.

 

[sealybobo]

LOL, It’s always fascinating to watch the pot attempt to psychoanalyze the kettle.

Thick and lathery like a hypocrisy cappuccino.

Fuckin’ Moron.

Did I say our side is impervious to this?

 

[sealybobo]

Nowhere in that quote did I say anything close to what you claimed I said.

Who cares? We absolutely came here and took the land from sea to shining sea. So what? It’s a horrible history. Every continent has a terrible history. The motherland, Africa, wasn’t taken by white. We left it to the original people. But we have also exploited it. China is currently exploiting Africa.

And do you think Texas is better off or worse off being part of the USA? Seems the people south of the border wish we would have kept stealing all the way down to the tip of South America. How much better off would Colombians be if Columbia was part of America?

Im surprised we didn’t take Canada too. Instead we let the queen have some of it and the French took Quebec. Who should the french give Quebec back to?

 

[Hellbilly]

Who cares?

I do.

We absolutely came here and took the land from sea to shining sea. So what? It’s a horrible history. Every continent has a terrible history.

I hear this argument a lot. Sadly when I hear this argument it usually revolves around the treatment of people of color.
So lets take this argument and apply it to something else.
There have always been homosexuals yet here in America it is considered to be wrong by a certain percentage of the population (Republicans.)
There have been ‘illegal immigrants’ for many years but now its a problem.
Does ‘it happens everywhere’ apply?


America has an ugly history but it’s a history that needs to be taught.

 

[sealybobo]

I do.

I hear this argument a lot. Sadly when I hear this argument it usually revolves around the treatment of people of color.
So lets take this argument and apply it to something else.
There have always been homosexuals yet here in America it is considered to be wrong by a certain percentage of the population (Republicans.)
There have been ‘illegal immigrants’ for many years but now its a problem.
Does ‘it happens everywhere’ apply?


America has an ugly history but it’s a history that needs to be taught.

Fine teach it. But what do you want to do about it? We killed indians, enslaves black people, etc. Yes, it's an argument you are always going to hear. And your grandkids will hear the same argument. At what point should they move on and forget about it? It happened.

Us Greeks have a horrible history. The Turks enslaved us longer than blacks were enslaved in America. So what do you want the Turks to do about it? I'm glad it all happened because if it didn't, I wouldn't be born. So it's sad but the horrible history of humans let to you and I being born in the greatest country in the world.

Even if you live in Detroit poor, which I did, it's still the greatest. It wasn't great living in Detroit but you know what I mean. My grandparents came here from Greece and moved to Detroit. So Detroit was a better option for my family than Greece. Of course as soon as my father could he got us the hell out of Detroit so that's my advice to people living in high poverty areas. Same for Apalachia. Sorry all the coal jobs are gone. It used to be a thriving economy. Doesn't seem like the politicians in that community were smart enough to attract other business' as coal was dying. They should have. All politics are local. People in Apalachia should not be blaming the Federal Government. They should be pissed at their local leaders who fucked them.

I'm mostly trying to give young poor people with no children advice. It's hard to tell someone who has a family and their job went overseas to just move. It's hard to give them any advice because they are in such a tough position. I'm talking about a single young person who doesn't have kids. I don't think a single young poor person in America has any excuses why they can't get out of poverty. Do you?

 

[sealybobo]

I do.

I hear this argument a lot. Sadly when I hear this argument it usually revolves around the treatment of people of color.
So lets take this argument and apply it to something else.
There have always been homosexuals yet here in America it is considered to be wrong by a certain percentage of the population (Republicans.)
There have been ‘illegal immigrants’ for many years but now its a problem.
Does ‘it happens everywhere’ apply?


America has an ugly history but it’s a history that needs to be taught.

I had an experience in college and my nephew had a similar experience. In high school he had black friends. Good black friends. Close black friends. Thought they'd be friends forever. Then blacks go to college and it seems like other blacks in college teach them CRT. Next thing you know his black friends are hanging out with only black people.

The same thing happened to me. Black people are very tribal right? So why is it wrong white people are?

And don't you see this hurts these young black men? For example, a lot of us make connections in college and that's how we find our first jobs. My nephew wants to be a lawyer. We have a friend who's a politician and he's introducing him to a lot of influential people. If those black kids were friends with my nephew, and they were into the law/politics, knowing my nephew would be a big help to them in their careers. But some stupid black sophomore taught the black freshman CRT and now those connections will never happen.

 

[bripat9643]

I do.

I hear this argument a lot. Sadly when I hear this argument it usually revolves around the treatment of people of color.
So lets take this argument and apply it to something else.
There have always been homosexuals yet here in America it is considered to be wrong by a certain percentage of the population (Republicans.)
There have been ‘illegal immigrants’ for many years but now its a problem.
Does ‘it happens everywhere’ apply?


America has an ugly history but it’s a history that needs to be taught.

Sorry, turd, but the native Americans have a history that is just as ugly, of not worse. They warred on the neighbors, enslaved a lot of them, committed numerous atrocities and sacrificed many of them to their gods.

Why do they get a pass? Do you know how many people the Aztecs sacrificed to their bloodthirsty gods? Your main objection seems to be that white people were better at it than they were.

 

[bendog]

Information is evaluated based not on evidence or a common understanding of the world, but on whether it supports the tribe’s values and goals. “Good for our side” and “true” begin to blur into one.

Donald Trump and the rise of tribal epistemology

Journalism cannot be neutral toward a threat to the conditions that make it possible.

www.vox.com

Don't Bernie and AOC supporters view events similarly?

 

[sealybobo]

Don't Bernie and AOC supporters view events similarly?

Do Rand Paul and Donald Trump view events similarly?

 

[bendog]

Do Rand Paul and Donald Trump view events similarly?

Well you used the CRT example with people going to college and switching to find a new crowd to hang with, and adopting the crowd's view of interpreting past facts and current events. So, I think you realize that "alternate facts" are promoted by both left and right .. in extremes.

To answer your question ..... I'm not sure Rand Paul actually has that many supporters. He's the darling of libertarians, but he is NOT consistently a libertarian, and imo, he found Trump a convenient fellow traveler on issues like globalism.

So, I'd say "yes" to your question, but with the caveat that Paul probably realizes his inconsistencies but his goal is to be a sort of gadfly and attract attention, while Trump's main goal is always his own personal financial and personal self-interests. Trump views anything he does for himself as all good, and his only interest is avoiding court's that might hinder his actions. Conversely, Nixon literally believed anything he did was legal so long as he did it to promote America's interests .... as he saw them.

The left has plenty of gadflies. But, I'm not sure the left has anyone as personally venal as Trump. Hillary obviously had no ethical problem in selling access to the Sec of State to get more money for her foundation, but to me that was more Nixonian that Trumpism. I didn't care for either.

 

[sealybobo]

Well you used the CRT example with people going to college and switching to find a new crowd to hang with, and adopting the crowd's view of interpreting past facts and current events. So, I think you realize that "alternate facts" are promoted by both left and right .. in extremes.

To answer your question ..... I'm not sure Rand Paul actually has that many supporters. He's the darling of libertarians, but he is NOT consistently a libertarian, and imo, he found Trump a convenient fellow traveler on issues like globalism.

So, I'd say "yes" to your question, but with the caveat that Paul probably realizes his inconsistencies but his goal is to be a sort of gadfly and attract attention, while Trump's main goal is always his own personal financial and personal self-interests. Nixon literally believed anything he did was legal so long as he did it to promote America's interest .... as he saw them. Trump views anything he does for himself as all good, and his only interest is avoiding court's that might hinder his actions.

The left has plenty of gadflies. But, I'm not sure the left has anyone as personally venal as Trump. Hillary obviously had no ethical problem in selling access to the Sec of State to get more money for her foundation, but to me that was more Nixonian that Trumpism. I didn't care for either.

My point is Rand Paul and Ron Paul don't agree with Bush or Trump the same way Bernie doesn't agree with AOC because Bernie is a bit more socialist.

 

[bendog]

My point is Rand Paul and Ron Paul don't agree with Bush or Trump the same way Bernie doesn't agree with AOC because Bernie is a bit more socialist.

I have no idea what you're saying because you put Bush and Trump together. I don't really see much difference it Red Bern or AOC, beyond AOC's grasp of economics is probably more advanced than Bernies. I'm not sure he's ever said anything about the Fed Reserve system and interest rates other than complaining it "costs jobs."

 

[CowboyTed]

Information is evaluated based not on evidence or a common understanding of the world, but on whether it supports the tribe’s values and goals. “Good for our side” and “true” begin to blur into one.

Donald Trump and the rise of tribal epistemology

Journalism cannot be neutral toward a threat to the conditions that make it possible.

www.vox.com

Can see where you are coming from... Like I support Democracy and Truth...

There are others that don't and prefer autocracy and deception... I must say the news media might be siding with in Democracy and honesty over the other thing...

 

[sealybobo]

I have no idea what you're saying because you put Bush and Trump together. I don't really see much difference it Red Bern or AOC, beyond AOC's grasp of economics is probably more advanced than Bernies. I'm not sure he's ever said anything about the Fed Reserve system and interest rates other than complaining it "costs jobs."

There are a lot of differences between Bernie and AOC. I'm not interested in researching what all those differences are. If they run for president then I'll look at what differences are. Until then, he's our most socialist politician.

I have to say, I agree with him when he says the rich are too rich and the masses are suffering because our system is out of wack. The rich too rich and the middle class is a shell of what it once was. No coincidence.

 

[bendog]

There are a lot of differences between Bernie and AOC. I'm not interested in researching what all those differences are. If they run for president then I'll look at what differences are. Until then, he's our most socialist politician.

I have to say, I agree with him when he says the rich are too rich and the masses are suffering because our system is out of wack. The rich too rich and the middle class is a shell of what it once was. No coincidence.

I don't really see many dissimilarities with Bern and AOC. AOC is a lot smarter of the two. Bernie's probably not a horrible guy to be around. In 1976 and 1980 the US voted out Keynes and Galbraith in favor of monetarism and Feldman, or to put it more broadly (and over simplistically) we voted to run the banking system for the wealthy instead of workers.

I disagree with you about the middle class really suffering. BUT we have successfully defunding soc sec and medicare. But the progressives were in on that too.

PS, I agree completely with you, however, on the very rich avoiding taxes. Most pay a fraction of their income in taxes that the middle class, and the poor for that matter, have to pay. (although the poor often have no income beyond public assistance)

I'm all for Manchin and a "surcharge" but I don't think it's remotely constitutional to tax anyone on unrealized cap gains.