Zone1 Transgender redux

[TheProgressivePatriot]

The part in bold is what any reasonable person would conclude. Of course there are two genders, and of course there are varying characteristics within the hundreds of millions of individuals of each gender. Out of those hundreds of millions there are a tiny minority that have physical characteristics of both genders, but larger minorities who have the psychological characteristics of the opposite gender.

It's just a matter of how you conceptualize it. Bottom line is that it is real for those who experience it

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Good for you. Pay for it yourself, and confine your support for mutilation and chemical castration to adults.

Even for adults, I think that they would be better served if you encouraged them to accept themselves as they are and not do self-harm.

And you can pay for the funerals and compensation to their families after they kill themselves

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

go to drag shows and/or compete in amateur night. Just leave them kids alone.

I do not go to drag shows and/or compete in amateur night. Kids who ask for help should be given help. Not scorn and rejection least there be blood on your hands

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Your opinion, and only an opinion.

Not an opinion.

Hard scientific fact.

Boys are not girls, and cannot become girls.

Girls are not boys, and cannot become boys.

Genuine science is absolutely clear on the differences between men and women.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Your opinion, and only an opinion.

Not an opinion. With all the desparate attempts to a biological basis for transgenderism, all they've come up with is inconculive studies that "suggest" similarities in the brains of people with gender dysphoria and biological individuals of the opposite sex.

I do not go to drag shows and/or compete in amateur night. Kids who ask for help should be given help. Not scorn and rejection least there be blood on your hands

Yes, help.

Not feeding them to the brainwashers, pill pushers, and surgery hawks of the transgender industry.

And you can pay for the funerals and compensation to their families after they kill themselves

No study shows evidence of any reduction in suicide for people who undergo transgender surgery.

Accepting themselves as they are is the only way out of their mental illness.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Not an opinion. With all the desparate [sic] attempts to a biological basis for transgenderism, all they've come up with is inconculive [sic] studies that "suggest" similarities in the brains of people with gender dysphoria and biological individuals of the opposite sex.

It's kind of interesting, here.

These studies about supposed differences between “male brains” and “female brains”, at best, are very vague.

I don't think anyone denies that there are certain personality traits that are more likely found to be in men, and some that are more likely found to be in women, but until recently, nobody would have ever thought of suggesting that a man who possesses traits that are more in line with those associated with femininity might really be a woman.

A difference in taste between my wife and I, as far as our preferences in entertainment comes to mind.

My wife likes horror movies. I don't particularly care for them.​

​

I like romantic comedies. My wife doesn't care much for them.​

So here's an area in which my wife's personality tends to be more masculine than mine. You'd expect a man to be more into horror movies, and not so much into romantic comedies, deigning to watch them only because his wife wants to.

Yet nobody who knows either of us would ever question my masculinity nor her femininity.

There alleged differences between “male brains” and “female brains” can only be detected using very advanced technology, and at best, are vague and inconclusive.

Meanwhile, the morphological differences between men and women are very plain and obvious, and require no artificial technology at all to see.

For all the time that Mankind has existed, we've known the difference between men and women, based on obvious physical traits. To put that aside, and try to change the definitions of male and female based on these vague, claimed brain differences, makes no sense at all.

If I were single, and looking for a wife, I wouldn't ask to see the brain scans of any candidate, to determine whether she might be a suitable wife for me. If “she” happened to have obviously male morphology, I would not be the least swayed into considering “her” as a possible mate, if “she” were to show me a scan that proved that “she” had a “female brain”.


A question to pose to anyone defending the madness of “transgenderism” would be to ask, assuming he/she is single and looking for a mate, would he/she consider a “transgender” person who presents as the sex that one desires as a mate, to be a realistic candidate? Would a man consider a “trans woman” to be viable wife material? Would a woman consider a “trans man” to be viable husband material?

I sure as Hell would not. I bet even the most ardent defenders of these freaks would, if pressed, have to admit to the same thing. When it comes to a spouse, they want the real thing, and would not settle for a poor imitation.

 

[Seymour Flops]

It's kind of interesting, here.

Yes, it is an intellectual exercise.

These studies about supposed differences between “male brains” and “female brains”, at best, are very vague.

I don't think anyone denies that there are certain personality traits that are more likely found to be in men, and some that are more likely found to be in women, but until recently, nobody would have ever thought of suggesting that a man who possesses traits that are more in line with those associated with femininity might really be a woman.

A difference in taste between my wife and I, as far as our preferences in entertainment comes to mind.

My wife likes horror movies. I don't particularly care for them.​

​

I like romantic comedies. My wife doesn't care much for them.​

So here's an area in which my wife's personality tends to be more masculine than mine. You'd expect a man to be more into horror movies, and not to much into romantic comedies, deigning to watch them only because his wife wants to.

Yet nobody who knows either of us would ever question my masculinity nor her femininity.

Nor should they. I've known women who like gory movies. A girl I dated in college was fascinated by the series "Faces of Death," and talked about it often.

My wife loves roller coasters and skydiving, but is terrified by freeway connection ramps. Won't drive over them, and asks me to exit early and take the long way to the connection. But women have to be incredibly brave to give birth, and they do it voluntarily all the time.

There alleged differences between “male brains” and “female brains” can only be detected using very advanced technology, and at best, are vague and inconclusive.

It is inconclusive, that's the number one counter argument.

But suppose those differences - so slight that they can barely be detected - turn out to be statistically significant. Still wouldn't show cause and effect. It could as easily be argued that it is living as a female or male causes these slight differences in the brain, rather than the slight differences causing transgenders to live as males or females.

Even if so, that would not support the chemical castration, physical castration, and hormone treatments that Democrats advocate starting at pre-puberty.

Non-disabling differences and body disatisfactions should not be treated with drastic surgeries. Self-acceptance is the answer to gender dysphoria, which should rightly be classified as just another type of body dysmorphia.

Meanwhile, the morphological differences between men and women are very plain and obvious, and require no artificial technology at all to see.

For all the time that Mankind has existed, we've known the difference between men and women, based on obvious physical traits. To put that aside, and try to change the definitions of male and female based on these vague, claimed brain differences, makes no sense at all.

Correct.

If I were single, and looking for a wife, I wouldn't ask to see the brain scans of any candidate, to determine whether she might be a suitable wife for me. If “she” happened to have obviously male morphology, I would not be the least swayed into considering “her” as a possible mate, if “she” were to show me a scan that proved that “she” had a “female brain”.

I will say this, and I may be the only one who even ever thought of this. If in some distant future, brain transplants are possible and I were to meet a person who appeared to be an attractive woman, but turned out to be a male who had a severe accident and had his brain tranferred into the body of an attractive same-age woman who had died of some brain injury, I would never be interested in them as a romantic partner.

A question to pose to anyone defending the madness of “transgenderism” would be to ask, assuming he/she is single and looking for a mate, would he/she consider a “transgender” person who presents as the sex that one desires as a mate, to be a realistic candidate? Would a man consider a “trans woman” to be viable wife material? Would a woman consider a “trans man” to be viable husband material?

I never get a straight answer. Well one Democrat poster did answer yes, but that was the only one.

I sure as Hell would not. I bet even the most ardent defenders of these freaks would, if pressed, have to admit to the same thing. When it comes to a spouse, they want the real thing, and would not settle for a poor imitation.

No, of course not. But that doesn't mean that transgirls are out of luck as far as finding a man. They just won't be able to find a straight man. Transgender porn is a very popular category. As far as I'm concerned men attracted to transgirls are gay or bisexual and just like feminine men.

As far as I know, all the transgender porn is for pre-op, AKA chicks with dicks. If someone is into that and some dude is making money with his fake tits and real dick, more power to him. Better than if he should chop off his willie and live as a eunich for life.

 

[emilynghiem]

What if they're just sick mentally ill freaks and so are their supporters? That of course is the only scientifically viable fact.

SOME may fall under that type of conditions.

But since the T in LGBT is even more rare, at less than a fraction of 1% of the population, then the "sick freaks" within that subsection would be even more rare.

Why not focus on the broader scope of addictions, abuse victims, and criminal conditions that affects much more people?

The issue of "school shootings" caused by failing to detain and treat dangerous sick people like Nicolas Cruz who has an established history of complaints and warnings is affecting more people and has threatened the rights of people on all sides of the school safety and gun issues as well as crime prevention and criminal justice system reforms.

Why not focus on how the spiritual healing methods help to diagnose and treat or cure those conditions affecting more lives and threatening more people?

 

[DudleySmith]

SOME may fall under that type of conditions.

But since the T in LGBT is even more rare, at less than a fraction of 1% of the population, then the "sick freaks" within that subsection would be even more rare.

Why not focus on the broader scope of addictions, abuse victims, and criminal conditions that affects much more people?

The issue of "school shootings" caused by failing to detain and treat dangerous sick people like Nicolas Cruz who has an established history of complaints and warnings is affecting more people and has threatened the rights of people on all sides of the school safety and gun issues as well as crime prevention and criminal justice system reforms.

Why not focus on how the spiritual healing methods help to diagnose and treat or cure those conditions affecting more lives and threatening more people?

Why not just ignore mentally ill people's sniveling bullshit whining and do some real research on helping them recover form the illness, or failing that put them somewhere where they can't rape kids or sell them nonsense like extreme sexual mutilations? They can have all the drag shows and rampant disease epidemics they so dearly love in their camps in North Dakota. Their diseases will take care of their problems by merely letting them be themselves, i.e. self-indulgent sociopaths.

 

[emilynghiem]

Why not just ignore mentally ill people's sniveling bullshit whining and do some real research on helping them recover form the illness, or failing that put them somewhere where they can't rape kids or sell them nonsense like extreme sexual mutilations? They can have all the drag shows and rampant disease epidemics they so dearly love in their camps in North Dakota. Their diseases will take care of their problems by merely letting them be themselves, i.e. self-indulgent sociopaths.

Dear DudleySmith We are basically saying the same thing. The difference is how we say and approach it:

As allies? Or as adversaries?

The people including doctors who studied and adopted the spiritual healing practices that work weren't "insulted attacked or forced" to research this.

That's NOT how anyone I know ever came to the understanding how the problems or solutions operate.

The motivation to pursue solutions comes from agreeing that these can help everyone and not harm anyone.

Right now my friends who showed reluctance or opposition to Christian healing are more afraid of religious abuse and fraud and forcing things on others that causes worse damage.

That's not how spiritual healing works

We will eventually agree to the solutions but not going to get there by fighting and blaming or attacking others.

We don't get to heaven and world peace by fighting wars but by giving them up.

Nobody I know has ever received spiritual healing or the knowledge of it by force, fear, or coercion but only got there because people agreed to pray in unity and forgiveness to receive the healing freely and naturally out of love and faith in greater blessings for humanity


Can we please focus on steps to get to that stage where we can receive all this wonderful healing and knowledge of how to conduct the medical studies and process for maximum benefit to the most people possible and most demanding cases and needs?

I agree totally on curing and preventing the problems so we spread the solutions

But the process itself gets blocked by negativity and projected blame anger and unforgiveness. All that needs to be removed if we are going to focus effectively in unison on solving the problems collaboratively and consistently. Can we please ask more support in this direction and it will make the path and process that much smoother

Thank you and I pray we all unite in this effort and solve multiple problems at the same time!

 

[JoeMoma]

SOME may fall under that type of conditions.

But since the T in LGBT is even more rare, at less than a fraction of 1% of the population, then the "sick freaks" within that subsection would be even more rare.

The T has become a social contagion for adolescent girls and to a lesser extent adolescent boys. Kids are self diagnosing themselves as trans as an answer to problems adolescents have experienced throughout human history. Thus the fraction of the population that claims to be trans is growing at an astounding rate at a detriment to their physical and mental health.

 

[Seymour Flops]

The T has become a social contagion for adolescent girls and to a lesser extent adolescent boys. Kids are self diagnosing themselves as trans as an answer to problems adolescents have experienced throughout human history. Thus the fraction of the population that claims to be trans is growing at an astounding rate at a detriment to their physical and mental health.

It's a great way for kids to get attention. When I first started teaching high school in 2000, it was common for girls to say that they were bi to get attention from a boy. It worked very well for them. Evidently a 7 becomes a 9 1/2 if she might make out with a girl in front of a teenage boy. Some boys tried to play the I'm bi card, but it didn't work the same at all.

Now, they like to say they are trans, because they become the heroes of their woke teachers.

But it isn't just the kids. There was an article in The Atlantic, which has become a huge cheerleader for the transgender industry, that said that kids who are unhappy with their bodies, or who act out, might be trans and not realize it. One of our counselors said that about a behavior student I work with. It was absurd, he shows absolutely no leanings in that direction.

 

[emilynghiem]

I would sooner conclude that those people who have a pathological need to demean and ridicule others who go against the grain of the popular culture in their expression of gender are the ones who have mental and emotional problems

I would also suggest that people consider what it is that so threatens them about the simple existence of people who –for whatever reasons – do not conform to the standard binary model of gender-what compels them to paint them as defective and freaks and deny their humanity and uniqueness. It could be anything from irrational fears of changes in culture and society that they do not understand and can’t adapt to- to issues with their own gender identity that they're struggling with. Thoughts?

Lastly, I really have to wonder just how stupid people have to be to actually believe that those who look at the science that contains clear evidence of a biological basis for gender dysphoria as well as ample evidence that some people are not clearly male or female- are the “science deniers”- while they themselves continually bleat about how there are only two genders and men can never be women and women can never be men- and conclude that it just mental illness.

Note: For the record, the question of whether or not there are more then two genders is idiotic and meaningless. You could argue that every variation on maleness or femaleness in another gender. Or one can conclude that there are just two genders with variations on each gender. The fact is that it is all just words. People are what they are, end of story.

Note: Those who advocate for the rights and recognition of transgender people do not believe that a person's DNA can be altered in order to produce a woman from what was once a man-or visa versa, as some stupidly (or dishonestly) suggest. We support anatomical changes that help a person better allign with their gender identity that is often a product of underlying biological factors-including genetics.

Trans people are not the zombie apocalypse. The bigots and transphobes are the zombies

Dear TheProgressivePatriot
I agree that there are science denial and biases on both sides, where I have found that the emotionally charged "unforgiveness and blame" toward one group more than others either causes or contributes to these hardedged biases and barriers both mentally, socially in relationships and politically in public policy.

However, most of these conditions can be changed by agreeing to forgive in order to communicate more effectively to resolve issues, even if it means agreeing to separate and leave each other alone. And quit imposing one bias or another.

It is true that SOME anger or hatred could be chronic and incurable (as in cases of criminally sick people conditioned to attack others), but I find that the most serious degrees of sickness are more rare, and the most common cases of projected emotions and blame are also more of the passing phase level. Everybody grieves, everyone goes through anger, denial, depression after experiencing injustice and setbacks or traumas in life. But some people suffer the dangerous and deadly level of depression or chronic anger that isn't the normal human stage, but becomes oppressive and addictive.

That is where I agree with you that this is a serious area of mental illness, that if left untreated can escalate into the criminal abuse, violations, and hateful attacks and mass killings out of anger directed collectively toward Target groups.

The common factor in both curable passing phases versus Chronic sickness is the unforgiveness factor. Some can be changed by people agreeing by their own realization and free choice to back off from angry Blame that projects and deadlocks both sides bullying back and forth.

Others require the deeper generational therapy to identify the unconscious root causes, forgive and resolve those, and help foster collective change on that deeper conditioned level.

This deeper level is also where the racial tribal injuries and injustice is carried from generation to generation, as well as the phobias caused by rape and other acts of genocide that take several generations to heal.

My theory of where racial hatred comes from is the past rapes and forced "breeding" where one tribe had males force impregnation on the women of other tribes and this spiritual wound on both tribes carries into the future on unconscious levels that manifests as embedded hostility fear and attacks like phobic reactions.

Some of that can be cured and healed but it takes equally as many stages for every level this problem has repeated and projected forward causing further injuries that require further forgiveness and healing to fully break the pattern.

If you see this affecting every person then we are all mentally ill on some level carrying anger and blame from the past.

Until all of us are free, none of us is free. Until all of us are fed, all of us are hungry -- Malcolm X

 

[emilynghiem]

The T has become a social contagion for adolescent girls and to a lesser extent adolescent boys. Kids are self diagnosing themselves as trans as an answer to problems adolescents have experienced throughout human history. Thus the fraction of the population that claims to be trans is growing at an astounding rate at a detriment to their physical and mental health.

Since people on both sides like TheProgressivePatriot have correctly raised the issue of "denying science", let's apply science to screening out both:
* Fake "conversion therapy" that is abusive malpractice causing further harm and damage (so at the same time, effectively proving which "spiritual healing" therapy is natural effective science that is chosen and conducted voluntarily with no harm, coercion, abuse or ill effects)
* False flag cases of propaganda and external social pp pressures causing people to feel "forced" to act "heterosexual, homosexual, cisgender or transgender against their natural will, identity and design".

Scientific medical investigation should be perfected to distinguish the two types of fake abuse from the real authentic process and identity that is natural for that person. If we can distinguish the difference between Covid virus and the flu or cold viruses, and the difference between PTSD depression versus chronic genetic inherited depression, we can do the same with these different cases and conditions instead of politicizing them to make examples of people as fuel for arguments to their worse detriment. People should not be abused as pawns in the media who deserve real help to be at peace with their own personal identity and process


Of all people choosing to go through their process in public, if Kaitlin Jenner and Milo, choose to do so, without coercion that can be a positive thing to help others. Most people I know need to go through this privately to resolve all the internal issues

If you want to support a uniform scientific process for diagnosing and identifying both real and fake cases, let's do this medically not politically

I recommend studying the diagnosis and healing process practiced and taught by Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutts Christian Healing Ministries in FL www.christianhealingmin.org www.spiritual-healing.us/about.html

And the Elijah Challenge www.theelijahchalkenge.org
To replicate more effective medical research studies and development in the authentic natural methods that are voluntary and restore self healing
See also the Global MRI research group in TN that collects medical research studies and testimonies for further scientific R&D

 

[badbob85037]

ding

This seems a more appropriate place to continue our discussion.

Here is the original link I provided which was an article published by Cleveland Clinic giving a general summation of findings from a multitude of studies being done on transgenderism.

Research on the Transgender Brain: What You Should Know

You have decided to concentrate on this one in particular.

Specific cerebral activation due to visual erotic stimuli in male-to-female transsexuals compared with male and female controls: an fMRI study - PubMed

Which was a study on a response to erotic stimuli in male to female trans participants compared to responses to that same stimuli in biologically female participants. Your main argument (supported by the anecdotal evidence of your friend from college) is that sex preference can change and that gay men would have the same response to erotic stimuli as straight women. The first part can be dismissed out of hand. Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence. As for the second part the introduction to that study explains why that isn't possible.


Introduction: Transsexuals harbor the strong feeling of having been born to the wrong sex. There is a continuing controversial discussion of whether or not transsexualism has a biological representation. Differences between males and females in terms of functional imaging during erotic stimuli have been previously described, revealing gender-specific results.

Notice the bolded section there? It's telling you that there are male/female biological differences in response to erotic stimulus and that the brains of gay men respond in the same manner as straight men to erotic stimulus as do gay and straight women.

Any other questions?

After reading the article and applying it to that of a man trapped in a man's body it sounds like a complete crock of crap

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I missed whatever discussion there was.
But as to the OP post - what is the point?

The left is so enraptured in virtue signaling, they cannot accept any other opinions that say anything other than their warped version of what transgenderism is, and is not.
They absolutely refuse to acknowledge that ANY men claiming to be trans are not trans at all.
And therein lies the rub. Conservatives (the vast majority) don't particularly care about REAL transgenders - what we care about is the left claiming all "transposers" are WOMEN.
Yeah... NO.
As well as the left insisting on indoctrinating our children with this madness. And it is madness.

 

[JoeMoma]

And therein lies the rub. Conservatives (the vast majority) don't particularly care about REAL transgenders - what we care about is the left claiming all "transposers" are WOMEN.

The reality is that no transwomen (transposers) are actual women. They are men who chose to live as women, but that does not make them women. Transmen are women that chose to live as men, but they are not men.

Trans-ideology is dangerous because if further confuse people that are already dealing with many issues/problems. Trans-ideology convinces many of these people that altering their bodies in ways that are irreversible is the solution to those problems.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The reality is that no transwomen (transposers) are actual women. They are men who chose to live as women, but that does not make them women. Transmen are women that chose to live as men, but they are not men.

Trans-ideology is dangerous because if further confuse people that are already dealing with many issues/problems. Trans-ideology convinces many of these people that altering their bodies in ways that are irreversible is the solution to those problems.

That is built around virtue signaling. Today it is trans people.
Yesterday it was women. They corralled themselves around women with the #believeallwomen - #metoo. But that was yesterday.
Today they literally will not even define what a woman is. Could care less about women's causes.

What is the most important thing - is to stop the madness of virtue signaling. Identity politics. Divisive hate. This is the core of the problem.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I missed whatever discussion there was.
But as to the OP post - what is the point?

The left is so enraptured in virtue signaling, they cannot accept any other opinions that say anything other than their warped version of what transgenderism is, and is not.
They absolutely refuse to acknowledge that ANY men claiming to be trans are not trans at all.
And therein lies the rub. Conservatives (the vast majority) don't particularly care about REAL transgenders - what we care about is the left claiming all "transposers" are WOMEN.
Yeah... NO.
As well as the left insisting on indoctrinating our children with this madness. And it is madness.

In my opinion virtue signaling should be studied as a mental disorder. It is just vanity seeking praise that exists as a closed loop of conditioned response.

These people can be conditioned to salivate to most any dinner bell. It doesn't actually have to BE virtuous, of course. All they need is to be told is that it is.

I am not looking forward to the day when they have been conditioned to view abortions up to a year after birth as being virtuous.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

In my opinion virtue signaling should be studied as a mental disorder. It is just vanity seeking praise that exists as a closed loop of conditioned response.

These people can be conditioned to salivate to most any dinner bell. It doesn't actually have to BE virtuous, of course. All they need is to be told is that it is.

I am not looking forward to the day when they have been conditioned to view abortions up to a year after birth as being virtuous.

It is the new religion of the 21st century.
They have officially became what they hate.
They hated religious people wearing religious symbols. Hated religious people trying to even talk about their religion in their presence. They said all religious people are self righteous and intolerant. They said religious people want to punish others for not being religious etc. etc.

Well... that is EXACTLY who they became.
They wear all manner of symbols of their religion.
They are preaching to everyone about their religion.
They are self righteous in their belief they are more enlightened and better people than "non believers".
They not only want to punish all non believers but want to, in essence, ban them from society completely.
They are wholly intolerant of everyone else. And are willing to commit violence on others to shout them down and keep them from even speaking.

They became what that hated.