Top Ten Reasons Why Islam Is NOT The Religion Of Peace

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May 8, 2004
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Violence in Muhammad's life and the Quran​

Ever since 9/11, Muslim leaders who have access to the national media have told us that Islam is the religion of peace and that violence does not represent the essence of Muhammad’s religion.

Even President Bush and Britain’s Prime Minister Blair have repeated this assertion, saying that Islam has been "hijacked" by a few violent fanatics. Is this true?

Sadly it is not, for empirical, observable facts demonstrate beyond doubt that Islam at its founding is filled with violence—in the life of Muhammad himself and in the Quran itself.

Hence, these Muslim apologists must stop misleading unsuspecting Westerners, and they must be honest about the heart of their religion, for once and for all.

Here are ten clear, verifiable reasons that explain why Islam is not the religion of peace.


10. Muhammad nicknames his weapons.

Tabari (AD 839-923) is an early Muslim historian who is considered largely reliable by scholars today. In fact, the State University of New York Press selected his history to be translated into 38 volumes. (We use The Last Years of the Prophet, trans. Ismail K. Poonawala, 9:153-55.)

In the context of the list of Muhammad’s assets at the end of his life (horses, camels, milch sheep, and so on), Tabari records the nicknames of Muhammad weapons.

Muhammad nicknames three swords that he took from the Jewish tribe Qaynuqa after he banished them from Medina in April 624: "Pluck Out," "Very Sharp," and "Death." Two other swords from elsewhere are named: "Sharp" and "That is wont to sink" (presumably into human flesh). After his Hijrah or Emigration from Mecca to Medina in 622, he owned two swords called "Sharp" and "Having the vertebrae of the back." This last sword he collected as booty after his victory at the Battle of Badr in March 624.

Next, Muhammad took three bows from the Qaynuqa tribe and named them as follows: "Most conducive to ease, or wide," "white," and "of nab wood" (species of tree from which bows are made).

The name of a coat of mail implies "ampleness" or "redundant portions," probably because Muhammad was portly (cf. Ibn Ishaq, Life of Muhammad, trans. Guillaume, p. 383).

Finally, even Muhammad himself has a nickname. After Tabari lists the positive ones, he matter-of-factly provides one that is not so positive: "The obliterator."

9. Muhammad commands in his Quran that adulterers and adulteresses should receive a hundred lashes.

24:2 Strike the adulteress and the adulterer one hundred times. Do not let compassion for them keep you from carrying out God’s law—if you believe in God and the Last Day—and ensure that a group of believers witnesses the punishment. (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Quran, New York: Oxford UP, 2004)

Umar said: God sent Muhammad with the truth and sent down the Book [Quran] to him, and the verse of stoning was included in what God most high sent down. God’s messenger [Muhammad] had people stoned to death, and we have done it also since his death. Stoning is a duty laid down in God’s Book for married men and women who commit fornication when proof is established, or if there is pregnancy, or a confession. (Muslim no. 4194)

And when he had given command over her and she was put in a hole up to her breast, he ordered the people to stone her. Khalid b. al-Walid came forward with a stone which he threw at her head, and when the blood spurted on his face he cursed her ... (Muslim, no. 4206)


8. Muhammad in his Quran permits husbands to beat their wives.

4:34 Husbands should take full care of their wives, with [the bounties] God has given to some more than others and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in the husbands’ absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great. (Haleem)

Rifa'a divorced his wife whereupon 'AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. 'Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's Apostle came, 'Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!" (Bukhari, emphasis added)


7. Muhammad in his Quran commands that the hands of male or female thieves should be cut off.

5:38 Cut off the hands of thieves,
whether they are male or female, as punishment for what they have done—a deterrent from God: God is almighty and wise. 39 But if anyone repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends, God will accept his repentance: God is most forgiving and merciful. (Haleem)

6. Muhammad assassinates poets and poetesses.

These two poets represent others in early Islam.

March 624: Uqba bin Abu Muayt

Uqba mocked Muhammad in Mecca and wrote derogatory verses about him. He was captured during the Battle of Badr, and Muhammad ordered him to be executed. "But who will look after my children, O Muhammad?" Uqba cried with anguish. "Hell," retorted the prophet coldly. Then the sword of one of his followers cut through Uqba’s neck.

March 624: Asma bint Marwan

Asma was a poetess who belonged to a tribe of Medinan pagans, and whose husband was named Yazid b. Zayd. She composed a poem blaming the Medinan pagans for obeying a stranger (Muhammad) and for not taking the initiative to attack him by surprise. When the prophet heard what she had said, he asked, "Who will rid me of Marwan’s daughter?" A member of her husband’s tribe volunteered and crept into her house that night. She had five children, and the youngest was sleeping at her breast. The assassin gently removed the child, drew his sword, and plunged it into her, killing her in her sleep.

5. Muhammad in his Quran commands death or the cutting off of hands and feet for fighting and corrupting the land.

5:33 Indeed, the punishment of those who fight Allah and His Messenger and who go around corrupting the land is to be killed, crucified, have their hands and feet cut off on opposite sides, or to be banished from the land. That is a disgrace for them in this life, and in the life to come theirs will be a terrible punishment. 34 Except for those who repent before you overpower them. Know, then, that Allah is All-Forgiving, Merciful. (Majid Fakhry, An Interpretation of the Quran, New York: NYUP, 2000, 2004)

4. Muhammad aggressively attacks Meccan caravans.

A year or so after Muhammad’s Hijrah from Mecca to Medina in 622, he attacks Meccan caravans six times, and sent out a punitive expedition three-days away against an Arab tribe that stole some Medinan grazing camels (or cattle), totaling seven raids.

W. Montgomery Watt, a highly reputable Western Islamologist who writes in favor of Muhammad and whose two-volume history of early Islam (Muhammad at Mecca (1953) and Muhammad at Medina (1956)) has won wide acceptance, tells us why geography matters:

The chief point to notice is that the Muslims took the offensive. With one exception the seven expeditions were directed against Meccan caravans. The geographical situation lent itself to this. Caravans from Mecca to Syria had to pass between Medina and the coast. Even if they kept as close to the Red Sea as possible, they had to pass within about eighty miles of Medina, and, while at this distance from the enemy base, would be twice as far from their own base. (Muhammad at Medina, emphasis added, p. 2)
It must be emphatically stated that the Meccans never sent a force up to the doorstep of Medina at this time—they did later on when they were fed up with Muhammad’s aggressions.

3. Muhammad in his Quran promises sensuous Gardens for martyrs dying in a military holy war.

Throughout the Quran, Muhammad promises the men in his fledgling Muslim community that if they die fighting for Allah and for him, Allah will reward them with a "virgin-rich" Garden (Suras 44:51-56; 52:17-29; 55:46-78).

In the following Quranic passage, representing others (Suras 4:74, 9:111; 3:140-143), the Arabic word "jihad" (root is j-h-d) is the means or currency to trade in this life for the life to come in an economic bargain.

61:10 You who believe, shall I show you a bargain that will save you from painful punishment? 11 Have faith in God and His Messenger and struggle [j-h-d] for His cause with your possessions and your persons—that is better for you, if only you knew—12 and He will forgive your sins, admit you into Gardens graced with flowing streams, into pleasant dwellings in the Gardens of Eternity. That is the supreme triumph. (Haleem)

2. Muhammad unjustly executes around 600 male Jews and enslaves the women and children.

After the Battle of the Trench in March 627 (named after a trench that the Muslims dug around parts of Medina) against a large coalition of Meccans and their allies, Muhammad imposed the ultimate penalty on the men in the Jewish clan, Qurayzah, his third and final Jewish rivals (he banished the Qaynuqa tribe in April 624 and the Nadir tribe in August 625). The Qurayzah tribe was supposed to remain neutral in the Battle, but they seem to have intrigued with the Meccans and to have been on the verge of attacking Muhammad from the rear. They were judged guilty by one of their Medinan Muslim allies, though Muhammad could have shown mercy, exiled them (as indeed they requested), or executed only a few.

The sentence: Death by decapitation for around 600 men (some Islamic sources say 900), and enslavement for the women and children (he took a beautiful Jewess as his own prize). Muhammad was wise enough to have six clans execute two Jews each in order to stop any blood-feuds. The rest of the executions were probably carried out by his fellow Emigrants from Mecca and lasted the whole night.

The prophet says the following in Sura 33:25-26 about the Battle of the Trench and his treatment of Qurayzah:

33:25 God sent back the disbelievers along with their rage—they gained no benefit—and spared the believers from fighting. He is strong and mighty. 26 He brought those People of the Book [Qurayza] who supported them down from their strongholds and put terror into their hearts. Some of them you [believers] killed and some you took captive. 27 He passed on to you their land, their homes, their possessions, and a land where you had not set foot. God has power over everything. (Haleem)

Now this atrocity has been enshrined in the eternal word of Allah—and the Quran seems to celebrate it. But these questions must be answered: Is intriguing with the enemy equal to slaughtering 600 men and enslaving the women and children? Who decides? The Arab tribal chief with the most powerful army? Muhammad said around the time of his Hijrah in 622 the following:

16:126 If you [people] have to respond to an attack, make your response proportionate, but it is better to be steadfast. (Haleem)

Any reasonable and fair-minded person would judge that Muhammad was not making his response (execution) proportionate to the breach of the agreement. The Qurayzah tribe never attacked the Muslims, and even if a few were to have done so, the punishment does not fit the crime. Therefore, Muhammad was being excessive and disproportionate because he used an irreversible penalty to express his human wrath.

1. Muhammad launches his own Crusades.

In the following verse, Muhammad uses the Arabic word qital (root is q-t-l), which means warring, fighting, or killing:

9:29 Fight [q-t-l] those among the people of the Book [Christians] who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden and do not profess the true religion, till they pay the poll-tax out of hand and submissively. (Fakhry)

The two most interesting clauses in this violent verse are (1) People of the Book (Christians in this verse late in Muhammad’s life) are to be attacked if they do not profess the true religion: Islam. This leaves the door wide open for terrorists today to attack and fight Christians because they do not adhere to Islam; (2) Christians must pay a tax for the "privilege" of living under the "protection" of Islam—submissively or in humiliation.

http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/ten_reasons.htm
 
Dang! You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Pale Rider again.
 
Kathianne said:
Dang! You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Pale Rider again.

Thanks for the attempt anyway Kath... :beer:

But I wonder why more people don't condem islam. Terrorists flourish in muslim nations, and no one seems to care. What's it going to take before people get real mad and want this murdering religon to cease and desist?
 
Pale Rider said:
Thanks for the attempt anyway Kath... :beer:

But I wonder why more people don't condem islam. Terrorists flourish in muslim nations, and no ones cares. What's it going to take before people get real mad and want this murdering religon to cease and desist?
Some are too busy condemning the Jews. Afraid of nikehoads or something. :rolleyes:
 
Kathianne said:
Some are too busy condemning the Jews. Afraid of nikehoads or something. :rolleyes:

Well, people can say what they want about the jews and acuse them of whatever, but I don't see fanatic groups of jews everywhere strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up innocent people just in the name of their religon.
 
CharlestonChad said:
Islam might be the only religion to ever start with non-violence.

"Islam" itself, is not really a "religon". It's a damn farce.
 
Pale Rider said:
"Islam" itself, is not really a "religon". It's a damn farce.
Islam is like Carlos Castaneda on a peyote high. I don't think I'd worship him.
 
It's really amazing that today, almost 5 years after 9/11, the truth about Islam is still not known by so much of the world.

And it's even worse than that. It's not just that so many don't know what Islam really is, they really don't care. They would prefer to blame the United States and Israel for all of the terrorism in the world, than to even consider Islam's role in it.

On another board I had a poster say the following to me just this morning:

I hope these two dangerous idiots in London and Washington DC now realize that sending Israel more bombs isn't such a good idea! The result of these bombings is strengthening terrorism, Israel can no more win this war than the US/UK can win in Afghanistan and Iraq!

Regarding Iran and nuclear weapons, I'm a hell of a sight more worried as to what the US and Israel might do than Iran.

This was said by a man who lives in the UK, and had started a thread with a c/p article about the use of Prestwick Airport in Scotland to refuel planes bringing bombs to Israel.


His attitude is typical. He is not alone in his belief that the United States, Israel, and the UK under Tony Blair, are the real dangers in the world today.

He also said this on another thread he started about the "special relationship" between the United States and and the UK:

Blair is an opportunist who will stop at little to further his greatness, Bush’s path to greatness is to rid the world of terrorism. Both signed up for this impossible mission because they were convinced it was a walk in the park and would bring them everlasting glory.

The “murdering, evil terrorist gangs” didn’t have the support nor were they a threat to the US/UK, now, due to the ignorance and arrogance of these two, they are!

Again, this idiot is not alone in thinking, and saying, that the United States is the root cause of terrorism. There are many liberals who believe exactly that.

(And don't argue with me about what a liberal is in England, I don't give a shit what they're called over there. They're people who hate their own country.)

Too many people, and I'm talking about people who post on message boards so presumably have access to the same information the rest of us do, DO NOT CARE that Islam is the root cause of terrorism. They do not care. Some of them will go OUT OF THEIR WAY to defend Islam while criticizing the United States and Israel.

Keep in mind, I'm talking about people who post on message boards so the news is just a click away. I'm talking about people who can find any nutjob article written on some obsure blog that never had a hit before they found it, but they seem to have a real problem finding cnn.com.

I'm talking about people who could do what I did: go to Google, type in the word Islam, and start reading.

But they don't. Because they hate the West just as much as Islam does.

The proof of that is Beslan. When the seize at Beslan ended, I went to the message board I frequented and I was shocked by what I read there that night. Really and truly shocked. They deserved it because Russia was suppressing the Chechnya people. I couldn't believe it. They shot little kids in the back as they ran for their lives, and yet here were people still saying the cause was one of oppression. And these weren't Muslims saying this. These were Westerners.

Islam is a philosophy and a way of life that allows a Muslim man to do whatever he wants, to whoever he wants, whenever he wants, as long as he can say it is defense of Islam. And everything is in defense of Islam. He can lie, cheat, steal, and kill. There is not a single rule in Islam that a Muslim has to follow if he doesn't want to. Not one. Even 4 of the 5 Pillars have exceptions, and the first Pillar Of Islam, the one that makes a Muslim a Muslim, only has to be said once. "There is only one God and Muhammed was his messenger" That's all it takes to become a Muslim.

Islam was founded, and is based on war. The Koran is considered the last, literal, true word off God by EVERY Muslim, not just the "radicals". Calls for "reform" or a "reformation" similiar to what Christianity went through are made by people who do not understand that Islam can never be reformed. You cannot reform something that is perfect. And Islam, to ALL Muslims, is perfect. So called "moderates" are either stupid, or being deceptive. There is no such thing as a "moderate" Muslim. The "terrorists", "radicals", "insurgents" haven't hijacked Islam, they are practicing it to the letter, and every other Muslim knows that.

If after 9/11, if after Beslan, if after Muslim men killing little kids for taking candy from American GI's (which has happened twice now), is not enough to make people fear them more than they fear George W. Bush and Tony Blair, there is no hope for our way of life, our future, and our world.

I just hope that when Islam wins, it won't be in my lifetime, or my daughters lifetime.
 
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nt250 said:
It's really amazing that today, almost 5 years after 9/11, the truth about Islam is still not known by so much of the world.

And it's even worse than that. It's not just that so many don't know what Islam really is, they really don't care. They would prefer to blame the United States and Israel for all of the terrorism in the world, than to even consider Islam's role in it.

On another board I had a poster say the following to me just this morning:



This was said by a man who lives in the UK, and had started a thread with a c/p article about the use of Prestwick Airport in Scotland to refuel planes bringing bombs to Israel.


His attitude is typical. He is not alone in his belief that the United States, Israel, and the UK under Tony Blair, are the real dangers in the world today.

He also said this on another thread he started about the "special relationship" between the United States and and the UK:



Again, this idiot is not alone in thinking, and saying, that the United States is the root cause of terrorism. There are many liberals who believe exactly that.

(And don't argue with me about what a liberal is in England, I don't give a shit what they're called over there. They're people who hate their own country.)

Too many people, and I'm talking about people who post on message boards so presumably have access to the same information the rest of us do, DO NOT CARE that Islam is the root cause of terrorism. They do not care. Some of them will go OUT OF THEIR WAY to defend Islam while criticizing the United States and Israel.

Keep in mind, I'm talking about people who post on message boards so the news is just a click away. I'm talking about people who can find any nutjob article written on some obsure blog that never had a hit before they found it, but they seem to have a real problem finding cnn.com.

I'm talking about people who could do what I did: go to Google, type in the word Islam, and start reading.

But they don't. Because they hate the West just as much as Islam does.

The proof of that is Beslan. When the seize at Beslan ended, I went to the message board I frequented and I was shocked by what I read there that night. Really and truly shocked. They deserved it because Russia was suppressing the Chechnya people. I couldn't believe it. They shot little kids in the back as they ran for their lives, and yet here were people still saying the cause was one of oppression. And these weren't Muslims saying this. These were Westerners.

Islam is a philosophy and a way of life that allows a Muslim man to do whatever he wants, to whoever he wants, whenever he wants, as long as he can say it is defense of Islam. And everything is in defense of Islam. He can lie, cheat, steal, and kill. There is not a single rule in Islam that a Muslim has to follow if he doesn't want to. Not one. Even 4 of the 5 Pillars have exceptions, and the first Pillar Of Islam, the one that makes a Muslim a Muslim, only has to be said once. "There is only one God and Muhammed was his messenger" That's all it takes to become a Muslim.

Islam was founded, and is based on war. The Koran is considered the last, literal, true word off God by EVERY Muslim, not just the "radicals". Calls for "reform" or a "reformation" similiar to what Christianity went through are made by people who do not understand that Islam can never be reformed. You cannot reform something that is perfect. And Islam, to ALL Muslims, is perfect. So called "moderates" are either stupid, or being deceptive. There is no such thing as a "moderate" Muslim. The "terrorists", "radicals", "insurgents" haven't hijacked Islam, they are practicing it to the letter, and every other Muslim knows that.

If after 9/11, if after Beslan, if after Muslim men killing little kids for taking candy from American GI's (which has happened twice now), is not enough to make people fear them more than they fear George W. Bush and Tony Blair, there is no hope for our way of life, our future, and our world.

I just hope that when Islam wins, it won't be in my lifetime, or my daughters lifetime.


While I'm not going to answer each of your points, I think bottom line it comes down to this. The US today, (hopefully not tomorrow, but I wouldn't bet on it), is not willing to take the terrorists at their word. They are banking on rationality, assuming they want more than we may wish to give, but that they have a price.

Truth is, they don't. No price short of the grand Caliph. We deny them that or we don't. My guess, we will grant that.
 
You left out his marriage to a 6 year old girl, which he "consummated" when she was 9 years old when he was 53. I'd qualify pedophilia with 'violence'.




So what do we do about this religion? Destroy every man woman and child that practices it?
 
nt250 said:
Islam is a philosophy and a way of life that allows a Muslim man to do whatever he wants, to whoever he wants, whenever he wants, as long as he can say it is defense of Islam. And everything is in defense of Islam. He can lie, cheat, steal, and kill. There is not a single rule in Islam that a Muslim has to follow if he doesn't want to. Not one.

Well that explains why it's become so popular in the prisons. :rolleyes:
 
theHawk said:
You left out his marriage to a 6 year old girl, which he "consummated" when she was 9 years old when he was 53. I'd qualify pedophilia with 'violence'.




So what do we do about this religion? Destroy every man woman and child that practices it?

I really wish people would stop bringing up Aisha. She was his wife and was instrumental in the furthering of Islam after his death. Mentioning her does no good, and is pointless. Criticizing Muhammad does no good and is pointless.

It's what Islam is doing today, and everyday, that people should be concentrating on, not what took place 1400 years ago. That's the point.

But people who attack Muhammad personallly are just seen as hateful people who are attacking a religion.
 
This has got to be the most uninformed thread in the history of the USMessageboards. I would be shocked if anyone on this thread (besides myself) has done any reading or research outside of scanning over articles written on Christian websites.
 
CharlestonChad said:
This has got to be the most uninformed thread in the history of the USMessageboards. I would be shocked if anyone on this thread (besides myself) has done any reading or research outside of scanning over articles written on Christian websites.


Acutally I do most my "research" on Islamic run websites. Muslims will not deny most these things.

Go to them, and ask for yourself.
 
CharlestonChad said:
This has got to be the most uninformed thread in the history of the USMessageboards. I would be shocked if anyone on this thread (besides myself) has done any reading or research outside of scanning over articles written on Christian websites.

Here are my research sites:

http://www.islam101.com/

http://www.islamonline.net/English/index.shtml

http://www.islaam.net/main/

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

This site is where I read most of the Koran and Hadiths:

http://www.al-islam.com/arb/

As you can see from the link, it's all in Arabic. This site shut off it's English translation pages about a year after I started reading it. I checked it every couple of months, because it was a really good site with an easy to follow format, but I gave up after awhile. When I just checked it again, they have totally re-designed the site and they have the English translations back on:

http://www.al-islam.com/eng/

The format looks pretty much the same as I remember it, the colors are different.

I didn't study the Koran and Hadiths, I just read them. I didn't take notes. I don't pretend to be any kind of expert on Islam. But I deliberately stayed away from any web site that was Christian, or obviously anti-Islam. There are a lot of them and they are very easy to spot right away. In the beginning, I just kept going through the list that came up at Google when I typed in the word Islam. After a while, as I started posting what I was learning on the message board, I would get PM's from other posters (who claimed to be Muslims) with links. Most of the links above are links I got from Muslims.

My opinion of Islam is not based soley on my reading of the Koran and Hadiths. It's impossible to really get the whole picture by simply reading parts of it on the internet. It's way too dense. There is far too much repetition. After a while I couldn't tell if I'd read 27 different Hadiths all on the same subject, or if I'd read the same Hadith 27 times.

My opinion of Islam comes from a combination of many different things.

My interest in Islam did not start with 9/11. I believed the stories that said it wasn't Islam. That Islam was a "Religion of Peace". As an atheist, I never think about religion. The whole religion thing never registered with me at all.

What got me interested in Islam was something that happened about two years later on the message board I posted at. We had this poster who was universally HATED by every liberal on the board. This guy could post that the sky was blue and within 5 minutes he's have 20 replies all telling him what a shit he was. (Actually, you might all know him here. He goes by the name GoldenDragon.)

Anyway, one day GD posted a derogatory thread about Islam. He was a devout Christian, that's the kind of thing he did. Well, nothing brings out the bile in a liberal on a message more than a devout Christian. He always got nasty replies from liberals, but I could not BELIEVE the vile things people were replying with on that thread. And these people were defending Islam!

The juxtoposition of the bile being flung by the people who were defending Islam was just amazing to me. These were not trolls, these were not Muslims. These were well known regulars who were liberals who would never THINK to defend a Christian. I had to know why.

So I started reading.

You can learn a lot about Islam by strictly sticking to pro-Islam sites. Read the "About Us" page, the FAQ page, and especially the message boards if they have one. One site I found, which I have since lost the link to, didn't have a message board, but it had a Q&A forum. You could submit questions by email, and the imans would answer them on the public board. If you find something like that, make sure to read it.

No, you do not have to read Christian sites, or anti-Islam sites, to get a clue as to what Islam really is. The pro-Islam sites will tell you all you need to know, and it's mind boggling.

I stopped reading all that stuff about a year ago. I had learned enough, and I also learned that people don't care.
 
nt250 said:
Here are my research sites:

http://www.islam101.com/

http://www.islamonline.net/English/index.shtml

http://www.islaam.net/main/

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

This site is where I read most of the Koran and Hadiths:

http://www.al-islam.com/arb/

As you can see from the link, it's all in Arabic. This site shut off it's English translation pages about a year after I started reading it. I checked it every couple of months, because it was a really good site with an easy to follow format, but I gave up after awhile. When I just checked it again, they have totally re-designed the site and they have the English translations back on:

http://www.al-islam.com/eng/

The format looks pretty much the same as I remember it, the colors are different.

I didn't study the Koran and Hadiths, I just read them. I didn't take notes. I don't pretend to be any kind of expert on Islam. But I deliberately stayed away from any web site that was Christian, or obviously anti-Islam. There are a lot of them and they are very easy to spot right away. In the beginning, I just kept going through the list that came up at Google when I typed in the word Islam. After a while, as I started posting what I was learning on the message board, I would get PM's from other posters (who claimed to be Muslims) with links. Most of the links above are links I got from Muslims.

My opinion of Islam is not based soley on my reading of the Koran and Hadiths. It's impossible to really get the whole picture by simply reading parts of it on the internet. It's way too dense. There is far too much repetition. After a while I couldn't tell if I'd read 27 different Hadiths all on the same subject, or if I'd read the same Hadith 27 times.

My opinion of Islam comes from a combination of many different things.

My interest in Islam did not start with 9/11. I believed the stories that said it wasn't Islam. That Islam was a "Religion of Peace". As an atheist, I never think about religion. The whole religion thing never registered with me at all.

What got me interested in Islam was something that happened about two years later on the message board I posted at. We had this poster who was universally HATED by every liberal on the board. This guy could post that the sky was blue and within 5 minutes he's have 20 replies all telling him what a shit he was. (Actually, you might all know him here. He goes by the name GoldenDragon.)

Anyway, one day GD posted a derogatory thread about Islam. He was a devout Christian, that's the kind of thing he did. Well, nothing brings out the bile in a liberal on a message more than a devout Christian. He always got nasty replies from liberals, but I could not BELIEVE the vile things people were replying with on that thread. And these people were defending Islam!

The juxtoposition of the bile being flung by the people who were defending Islam was just amazing to me. These were not trolls, these were not Muslims. These were well known regulars who were liberals who would never THINK to defend a Christian. I had to know why.

So I started reading.

You can learn a lot about Islam by strictly sticking to pro-Islam sites. Read the "About Us" page, the FAQ page, and especially the message boards if they have one. One site I found, which I have since lost the link to, didn't have a message board, but it had a Q&A forum. You could submit questions by email, and the imans would answer them on the public board. If you find something like that, make sure to read it.

No, you do not have to read Christian sites, or anti-Islam sites, to get a clue as to what Islam really is. The pro-Islam sites will tell you all you need to know, and it's mind boggling.

I stopped reading all that stuff about a year ago. I had learned enough, and I also learned that people don't care.

Again MORE public silence from the left big wigs. You think maybe they don't want to be seen as pro-Hizbully and anti-semitic? :teeth: They are SOOO screwed.
 
dilloduck said:
Again MORE public silence from the left big wigs. You think maybe they don't want to be seen as pro-Hizbully and anti-semitic? :teeth: They are SOOO screwed.

They just don't care. I learned pretty quickly that it was pointless to post quotes from the Koran and Hadiths. Ten liberals would reply with quotes from the Bible.

I was called a "right-wing Christian" more times than I can count. I was called hateful. A bigot. A racist. Oh, the racist one I really loved because the people who would call me a racist for my views on Islam would almost ALWAYS go on to explain that the problem wasn't Islam. No the problem was ARAB CULTURE! Stupid fucking idiots. Islam is NOT a race. But call me a racist and them go on and blame it all on the Arabs. Can you be that dumb? Yeah, if you're a liberal, you can be that dumb.

Two more points I'll make about my experiences posting on a very active, liberal message board about Islam:

People do not understand how Muslims use language. Words do not mean the same thing to a Muslim as they do to you and me. For example: many people will claim that Islam forbids murder of innocents and suicide. That's true, it does. But then you have to define "innocents" and "suicide". There is no such thing as an "innocent" Israeli. I had one poster tell me that since all Israeli's are conscripted, blowing up a bus, or a cafe, was a legitmate tactic because 30% of the victims were likely to be members of the military.

Martyrdom is not considered suicide. Being a martyr in defense of Islam is the highest honor any Muslim can aspire to.

The Religion of Peace? Sure it is, if you consider peace to be total surrender and submission.

The second point I'd like to make is that in all my time posting about Islam, not a single self professed Muslim ever insulted me. I pissed a lot of them off, I got a lot of angry PM's with links to "educate" me, but not a single Muslim even got as down and dirty with me over my Islam posts as liberals did. Not even the women, and I was brutal to them. I didn't consider them worth conversing with because no woman in her right mind would choose to be a Muslim and I told them that. The "worst" thing a Muslim woman ever did to me was to reply to me in gibberish that I spent 2 hours trying to get translated. She was supposedly a female Muslim posting from Iran, so I tried Farsi to English sites. I couldn't find a free one (I didn't care that much).

I finally found two chat rooms that had active people in it that was for Farsi. I posted it at both. The first room ignored me. At the second, someone replied to me and said it wasn't Farsi, and it didn't look like any language he knew.

She got me. I thought that was pretty funny. No, the Muslims were all pretty good about it. Muslims are nothing if not polite. But that, too, is one of their tactics.
 
nt250, in your internet studies of islam, what do you think is the reason that almost soley middle eastern muslims commit terroristic crimes? There are around 6 million muslims in America, but we haven't been attacked by American-Muslims yet. Do you think it has anything to do with the theocracies in the middle east?
 

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