Too bad so sad never Trumpers: RNC rules, not state laws, govern how convention votes are counted

[tinydancer]

It was a toothless victory yesterday. Strictly symbolic. Although the way the never Trumpers were running around celebrating, you'd think they already had a Romney/Bush ticket underway.

So all you "open borders " anti Trumpers didn't win jack shit.

"But federal judge Robert E. Payne ruled that the state law can't be enforced because governments can't be allowed to have control over how parties choose their nominees.

It's a token win that may only apply to Correll himself since his didn't qualify as a class-action lawsuit. And the national nomination process is managed by the Republican National Committee – not the state parties.

The RNC's rules currently call for the official reading of delegate votes in the way each state's voters, and each state party's rules, assigned them.

The convention's secretary, in other words, will record the votes as the RNC's rules say they should be cast – even if Correll and others were to go rogue.

So unless the rules are changed when the convention's Rules Committee meets this week in Cleveland, Virginia's vote tally next week won't change – even if Correll and 1,000 other delegates were to cast their votes for Mickey Mouse.

Practically speaking, Payne didn't direct the RNC to change course.

RNC spokeswoman Lindsay Walters told The Washington Post on Monday that Payne's ruling 'upholds the right of political parties to set their own rules for national convention delegate selection and allocation.'

'It affirms our First Amendment right to require that delegates be bound to primary results, and it makes clear that delegates are bound under national party rules.'

That much is true: Payne ruled that the GOP can apply its own rules, under which Trump controls more than enough 'bound' delegates – those committed to support him by their state parties' rules – to win the Republican presidential nomination."


Read more: Judge gives symbolic legal cover to anti-Trump convention delegates
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[S.J.]

I look for the party to be united after the convention and the Romneys and Bushes will be insignificant going into the election. They represent the past.

 

[TheOldSchool]

There is a very real possibility Trump will be ousted from the ticket by the majority of republicans that do not support him. Don't be surprised to see Ryan and/or Romney emerge as the candidates.

 

[tinydancer]

I look for the party to be united after the convention and the Romneys and Bushes will be insignificant going into the election. They represent the past.

It will be gratifying to see the Bush dynasty end. I'm amazed that so many D's have no problem continuing with their progressive royalty with the Clintons. The Sanders voters at least gave them a run for their money.

 

[tinydancer]

There is a very real possibility Trump will be ousted from the ticket by the majority of republicans that do not support him. Don't be surprised to see Ryan and/or Romney emerge as the candidates.

And just how will they accomplish that? The rules committee would have to pass a motion to unbind them. And then of course the pro Trumpers would destroy the party for reneging sp? on the original rule set up.

 

[Fenton Lum]

I look for the party to be united after the convention and the Romneys and Bushes will be insignificant going into the election. They represent the past.

It will be gratifying to see the Bush dynasty end. I'm amazed that so many D's have no problem continuing with their progressive royalty with the Clintons. The Sanders voters at least gave them a run for their money.

Lotsa folk would have forgotten Hilary given a reasonable alternative.

 

[Fenton Lum]

There is a very real possibility Trump will be ousted from the ticket by the majority of republicans that do not support him. Don't be surprised to see Ryan and/or Romney emerge as the candidates.

And just how will they accomplish that? The rules committee would have to unbind them. And then of course the pro Trumpers would destroy the party for reneging sp? on the original rule set up.

Both these parties should be destroyed.

 

[TheOldSchool]

There is a very real possibility Trump will be ousted from the ticket by the majority of republicans that do not support him. Don't be surprised to see Ryan and/or Romney emerge as the candidates.

And just how will they accomplish that? The rules committee would have to unbind them. And then of course the pro Trumpers would destroy the party for reneging sp? on the original rule set up.

The rules committee can do whatever they want before the convention. Will they side with Trump when they meet before the convention? Or with the majority? We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Care4all]

It was a toothless victory yesterday. Strictly symbolic. Although the way the never Trumpers were running around celebrating, you'd think they already had a Romney/Bush ticket underway.

So all you "open borders " anti Trumpers didn't win jack shit.

"But federal judge Robert E. Payne ruled that the state law can't be enforced because governments can't be allowed to have control over how parties choose their nominees.

It's a token win that may only apply to Correll himself since his didn't qualify as a class-action lawsuit. And the national nomination process is managed by the Republican National Committee – not the state parties.

The RNC's rules currently call for the official reading of delegate votes in the way each state's voters, and each state party's rules, assigned them.

The convention's secretary, in other words, will record the votes as the RNC's rules say they should be cast – even if Correll and others were to go rogue.

So unless the rules are changed when the convention's Rules Committee meets this week in Cleveland, Virginia's vote tally next week won't change – even if Correll and 1,000 other delegates were to cast their votes for Mickey Mouse.

Practically speaking, Payne didn't direct the RNC to change course.

RNC spokeswoman Lindsay Walters told The Washington Post on Monday that Payne's ruling 'upholds the right of political parties to set their own rules for national convention delegate selection and allocation.'

'It affirms our First Amendment right to require that delegates be bound to primary results, and it makes clear that delegates are bound under national party rules.'

That much is true: Payne ruled that the GOP can apply its own rules, under which Trump controls more than enough 'bound' delegates – those committed to support him by their state parties' rules – to win the Republican presidential nomination."


Read more: Judge gives symbolic legal cover to anti-Trump convention delegates
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

But read this view Tiny, and the rest of the article here:


All delegates are unbound

As the Republican National Convention prepares to kick off next week in Cleveland, there is a lot of confusion and controversy over the question of whether delegates to the convention are “bound” to vote for any particular candidate as a result of primary or caucus results, or state party directions.

The controversy stems from the fact that a large number of delegates believe they cannot in good conscience vote for presumed nominee Donald Trump, while the confusion stems from either a misunderstanding of the history and rules of the Republican National Convention, or more recently a blizzard of misinformation and misdirection coming from those who wish delegates were bound

Here are the facts about delegates to the Republican National Convention and efforts to bind their vote according to primary results or instructions from their state party.
Republican delegates to the national convention have always been unbound by national party rules, with the single exception. The issue was decisively settled in 1876 when delegates voted 395 to 353 to uphold past rulings stating that delegates could not be bound to vote against their conscience. Following the vote, the chairman of the convention summarized the party’s position by saying “t is he right of every individual member thereof to vote his individual sentiments.”

In the following convention in 1880, rules committee chair James A. Garfield, who wound up winning the nomination himself on the 36th ballot and the White House that fall, wrote what is today Rule 37(b) of the temporary rules of the convention. This rule was enacted specifically to provide a mechanism that would ensure every delegate was unbound and free to vote their conscience, and it gave every delegate the right to challenge his delegation’s announced vote on the floor of the convention and have his vote recorded as he wished.

In rejecting the binding of delegates, both the 1876 and 1880 conventions were embracing what had been the understanding of previous conventions dating back to 1856, the first Republican National Convention. At both 1860 and 1868 conventions, some delegations arrived with instructions or recommendations from their state conventions on which candidate to vote for, and at both conventions the right of delegates to ignore those directions and vote their consciences was upheld.

The Republican National Convention has also historically rejected the idea that state laws could bind delegates any more than state party rules or directions could. The very first time delegates were supposedly bound by state law was at the 1912 convention.

Both the Illinois and Oregon delegations announced that state law dictated how they were to vote, but that some delegates did not want to vote as ordered. In the same way the Republican convention had always rejected any sort of binding, those delegates were allowed to vote according to their consciences and ignore state law. The Oregon delegation made similar announcements in 1916 and 1920, and each time delegates were allowed to ignore state law and vote their consciences.

Although some claim it is “illegal” for delegates to defy state laws instructing them how to vote, the U.S. Supreme Court held in two cases nearly forty years ago that state laws could not trump national party rules. Part of their reasoning was that political parties must be free from government control, particularly in matters as important as who the party’s nominee would be, delegate selection, and how delegates could vote.

A careful reading of the rules passed by the 2012 Republican National Convention proves this to be the common understanding and practice of the party. Rules 14 and 16, which govern the election and selection of delegates to the convention, include several references to the fact that the national convention is free to ignore state law, including two occasions where rules begin with the phrase “No state law shall be observed…”

And Rule 16(b)(1) stipulates that state party rules take precedence over state laws governing the election and selection of delegates, and that national party rules take precedence over both. So clearly the national party does not accept that state laws can supersede either state or national party rules.

The only time delegates have been bound by primary results or anything else was in 1976, when the campaign of President Gerald Ford pushed through a rule requiring votes from nineteen states with laws purporting to bind delegates be announced and recorded as if those laws were valid. It was widely understood at the time those laws were unconstitutional as a result of a recent Supreme Court ruling, but the rule was sufficient to bind delegates’ votes for the first time in Republican National Convention history.

The gambit seemed to pay off, as it helped Ford defeat his challenger, former California Gov. Ronald Reagan. At the 1980 convention the rule change pushed through by Ford was eliminated, and the rule reverted back to essentially the same language as the rule first adopted at the 1880 convention. The rule remains largely identical today.

The last remaining argument by those seeking to impose binding on delegates is Rule 16(a)2, which supposedly directs the secretary of the convention to record votes “in accordance with the delegate’s obligation under these rules, state law, or state party rule.” But there are two major problems with this rule.

The first is that it contradicts both itself and other national rules. State law and state party rules may conflict, as they do in Virginia, where state law dictates that all delegates must vote for the primary winner while state party rules say delegate votes should be proportional to the outcome. More importantly, both the state law and state party rule conflict with the national convention’s Rule 37(b), which prevents any delegate from being bound.

Second and most importantly is that Rule 16 is not actually part of the convention rules – it was added in 2013 as part of a section of rules that expire at the start of the 2016 convention. The only rules that can affect how delegates vote and whether they are free to vote their conscience are first the temporary and then the permanent rules of the convention. According to Rule 42, those rules are numbers 26 through 42 (plus the rules of the U.S. House of Representatives, which are not relevant to binding).

In short, the history of the Republican National Convention proves that delegates have always, with the exception of 1976, been free to vote their conscience, and the rule that has protected this right over the last 136 years remains part of the temporary rules of the 2016 convention. The U.S. Supreme Court’s rulings on the issue also make clear that delegates are free to ignore state laws purporting to bind them, and the one national party rule purporting to bind delegates expires at the start of the convention.

These facts make clear that all delegates are completely unbound and free to vote their conscience on any and all matters that come before them, including the first ballot to decide the party’s nominee for president. No rule change is needed to unbind delegates, so long as the party stands by its 160-year history (aside from the blemish of 1976) protecting this important right.

 

[TheOldSchool]

The rules committee will meet a few days before the convention and decide Trump's fate. Whatever they decide, it will be a bad day for the GOP.

 

[tinydancer]

I look for the party to be united after the convention and the Romneys and Bushes will be insignificant going into the election. They represent the past.

It will be gratifying to see the Bush dynasty end. I'm amazed that so many D's have no problem continuing with their progressive royalty with the Clintons. The Sanders voters at least gave them a run for their money.

Lotsa folk would have forgotten Hilary given a reasonable alternative.

One of the things that has disturbed me the most about both parties is that they really have just been promoting those politicians that have been with the party so long "that they deserve that coronation". It's quite appalling.

This is why I've loved the rock em sock em royal rumble primaries I've witnessed. It's been the best primary season of my lifetime.

Both Sanders and Trump shook the pillars of heaven and hell and it's been an awesome ride. And kudos to both. I know Bernie's catching a lot of flak today, but you know what? That old son of a gun deserves a standing ovation from all of us on both sides of the aisle for running against the wind and taking it to the limit.

So at least from this conservative it's "Bravo Bernie! Job well done". I will respect him forever.

 

[buckeye45_73]

So they signed up for trump but can't vote for him on conscious?

 

[S.J.]

It was a toothless victory yesterday. Strictly symbolic. Although the way the never Trumpers were running around celebrating, you'd think they already had a Romney/Bush ticket underway.

So all you "open borders " anti Trumpers didn't win jack shit.

"But federal judge Robert E. Payne ruled that the state law can't be enforced because governments can't be allowed to have control over how parties choose their nominees.

It's a token win that may only apply to Correll himself since his didn't qualify as a class-action lawsuit. And the national nomination process is managed by the Republican National Committee – not the state parties.

The RNC's rules currently call for the official reading of delegate votes in the way each state's voters, and each state party's rules, assigned them.

The convention's secretary, in other words, will record the votes as the RNC's rules say they should be cast – even if Correll and others were to go rogue.

So unless the rules are changed when the convention's Rules Committee meets this week in Cleveland, Virginia's vote tally next week won't change – even if Correll and 1,000 other delegates were to cast their votes for Mickey Mouse.

Practically speaking, Payne didn't direct the RNC to change course.

RNC spokeswoman Lindsay Walters told The Washington Post on Monday that Payne's ruling 'upholds the right of political parties to set their own rules for national convention delegate selection and allocation.'

'It affirms our First Amendment right to require that delegates be bound to primary results, and it makes clear that delegates are bound under national party rules.'

That much is true: Payne ruled that the GOP can apply its own rules, under which Trump controls more than enough 'bound' delegates – those committed to support him by their state parties' rules – to win the Republican presidential nomination."


Read more: Judge gives symbolic legal cover to anti-Trump convention delegates
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

But read this view Tiny, and the rest of the article here:


All delegates are unbound

As the Republican National Convention prepares to kick off next week in Cleveland, there is a lot of confusion and controversy over the question of whether delegates to the convention are “bound” to vote for any particular candidate as a result of primary or caucus results, or state party directions.

The controversy stems from the fact that a large number of delegates believe they cannot in good conscience vote for presumed nominee Donald Trump, while the confusion stems from either a misunderstanding of the history and rules of the Republican National Convention, or more recently a blizzard of misinformation and misdirection coming from those who wish delegates were bound

Here are the facts about delegates to the Republican National Convention and efforts to bind their vote according to primary results or instructions from their state party.
Republican delegates to the national convention have always been unbound by national party rules, with the single exception. The issue was decisively settled in 1876 when delegates voted 395 to 353 to uphold past rulings stating that delegates could not be bound to vote against their conscience. Following the vote, the chairman of the convention summarized the party’s position by saying “t is he right of every individual member thereof to vote his individual sentiments.”

In the following convention in 1880, rules committee chair James A. Garfield, who wound up winning the nomination himself on the 36th ballot and the White House that fall, wrote what is today Rule 37(b) of the temporary rules of the convention. This rule was enacted specifically to provide a mechanism that would ensure every delegate was unbound and free to vote their conscience, and it gave every delegate the right to challenge his delegation’s announced vote on the floor of the convention and have his vote recorded as he wished.

In rejecting the binding of delegates, both the 1876 and 1880 conventions were embracing what had been the understanding of previous conventions dating back to 1856, the first Republican National Convention. At both 1860 and 1868 conventions, some delegations arrived with instructions or recommendations from their state conventions on which candidate to vote for, and at both conventions the right of delegates to ignore those directions and vote their consciences was upheld.

The Republican National Convention has also historically rejected the idea that state laws could bind delegates any more than state party rules or directions could. The very first time delegates were supposedly bound by state law was at the 1912 convention.

Both the Illinois and Oregon delegations announced that state law dictated how they were to vote, but that some delegates did not want to vote as ordered. In the same way the Republican convention had always rejected any sort of binding, those delegates were allowed to vote according to their consciences and ignore state law. The Oregon delegation made similar announcements in 1916 and 1920, and each time delegates were allowed to ignore state law and vote their consciences.

Although some claim it is “illegal” for delegates to defy state laws instructing them how to vote, the U.S. Supreme Court held in two cases nearly forty years ago that state laws could not trump national party rules. Part of their reasoning was that political parties must be free from government control, particularly in matters as important as who the party’s nominee would be, delegate selection, and how delegates could vote.

A careful reading of the rules passed by the 2012 Republican National Convention proves this to be the common understanding and practice of the party. Rules 14 and 16, which govern the election and selection of delegates to the convention, include several references to the fact that the national convention is free to ignore state law, including two occasions where rules begin with the phrase “No state law shall be observed…”

And Rule 16(b)(1) stipulates that state party rules take precedence over state laws governing the election and selection of delegates, and that national party rules take precedence over both. So clearly the national party does not accept that state laws can supersede either state or national party rules.

The only time delegates have been bound by primary results or anything else was in 1976, when the campaign of President Gerald Ford pushed through a rule requiring votes from nineteen states with laws purporting to bind delegates be announced and recorded as if those laws were valid. It was widely understood at the time those laws were unconstitutional as a result of a recent Supreme Court ruling, but the rule was sufficient to bind delegates’ votes for the first time in Republican National Convention history.

The gambit seemed to pay off, as it helped Ford defeat his challenger, former California Gov. Ronald Reagan. At the 1980 convention the rule change pushed through by Ford was eliminated, and the rule reverted back to essentially the same language as the rule first adopted at the 1880 convention. The rule remains largely identical today.

The last remaining argument by those seeking to impose binding on delegates is Rule 16(a)2, which supposedly directs the secretary of the convention to record votes “in accordance with the delegate’s obligation under these rules, state law, or state party rule.” But there are two major problems with this rule.

The first is that it contradicts both itself and other national rules. State law and state party rules may conflict, as they do in Virginia, where state law dictates that all delegates must vote for the primary winner while state party rules say delegate votes should be proportional to the outcome. More importantly, both the state law and state party rule conflict with the national convention’s Rule 37(b), which prevents any delegate from being bound.

Second and most importantly is that Rule 16 is not actually part of the convention rules – it was added in 2013 as part of a section of rules that expire at the start of the 2016 convention. The only rules that can affect how delegates vote and whether they are free to vote their conscience are first the temporary and then the permanent rules of the convention. According to Rule 42, those rules are numbers 26 through 42 (plus the rules of the U.S. House of Representatives, which are not relevant to binding).

In short, the history of the Republican National Convention proves that delegates have always, with the exception of 1976, been free to vote their conscience, and the rule that has protected this right over the last 136 years remains part of the temporary rules of the 2016 convention. The U.S. Supreme Court’s rulings on the issue also make clear that delegates are free to ignore state laws purporting to bind them, and the one national party rule purporting to bind delegates expires at the start of the convention.

These facts make clear that all delegates are completely unbound and free to vote their conscience on any and all matters that come before them, including the first ballot to decide the party’s nominee for president. No rule change is needed to unbind delegates, so long as the party stands by its 160-year history (aside from the blemish of 1976) protecting this important right.

People will see what they want to see and read into it what they want, especially those who are desperate or in denial but Trump is the one with the votes. He won it fair and square and the Republican establishment sees their death grip on the party being broken.
It's ironic that the Republican establishment and the Bush family are acting exactly like the Gore campaign did in 2000. They agreed to play by a certain set of rules that they thought would favor them, then when they lost by those rules, they wanted to change them to make them the winner.

 

[tinydancer]

It was a toothless victory yesterday. Strictly symbolic. Although the way the never Trumpers were running around celebrating, you'd think they already had a Romney/Bush ticket underway.

So all you "open borders " anti Trumpers didn't win jack shit.

"But federal judge Robert E. Payne ruled that the state law can't be enforced because governments can't be allowed to have control over how parties choose their nominees.

It's a token win that may only apply to Correll himself since his didn't qualify as a class-action lawsuit. And the national nomination process is managed by the Republican National Committee – not the state parties.

The RNC's rules currently call for the official reading of delegate votes in the way each state's voters, and each state party's rules, assigned them.

The convention's secretary, in other words, will record the votes as the RNC's rules say they should be cast – even if Correll and others were to go rogue.

So unless the rules are changed when the convention's Rules Committee meets this week in Cleveland, Virginia's vote tally next week won't change – even if Correll and 1,000 other delegates were to cast their votes for Mickey Mouse.

Practically speaking, Payne didn't direct the RNC to change course.

RNC spokeswoman Lindsay Walters told The Washington Post on Monday that Payne's ruling 'upholds the right of political parties to set their own rules for national convention delegate selection and allocation.'

'It affirms our First Amendment right to require that delegates be bound to primary results, and it makes clear that delegates are bound under national party rules.'

That much is true: Payne ruled that the GOP can apply its own rules, under which Trump controls more than enough 'bound' delegates – those committed to support him by their state parties' rules – to win the Republican presidential nomination."


Read more: Judge gives symbolic legal cover to anti-Trump convention delegates
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

But read this view Tiny, and the rest of the article here:


All delegates are unbound

As the Republican National Convention prepares to kick off next week in Cleveland, there is a lot of confusion and controversy over the question of whether delegates to the convention are “bound” to vote for any particular candidate as a result of primary or caucus results, or state party directions.

The controversy stems from the fact that a large number of delegates believe they cannot in good conscience vote for presumed nominee Donald Trump, while the confusion stems from either a misunderstanding of the history and rules of the Republican National Convention, or more recently a blizzard of misinformation and misdirection coming from those who wish delegates were bound

Here are the facts about delegates to the Republican National Convention and efforts to bind their vote according to primary results or instructions from their state party.
Republican delegates to the national convention have always been unbound by national party rules, with the single exception. The issue was decisively settled in 1876 when delegates voted 395 to 353 to uphold past rulings stating that delegates could not be bound to vote against their conscience. Following the vote, the chairman of the convention summarized the party’s position by saying “t is he right of every individual member thereof to vote his individual sentiments.”

In the following convention in 1880, rules committee chair James A. Garfield, who wound up winning the nomination himself on the 36th ballot and the White House that fall, wrote what is today Rule 37(b) of the temporary rules of the convention. This rule was enacted specifically to provide a mechanism that would ensure every delegate was unbound and free to vote their conscience, and it gave every delegate the right to challenge his delegation’s announced vote on the floor of the convention and have his vote recorded as he wished.

In rejecting the binding of delegates, both the 1876 and 1880 conventions were embracing what had been the understanding of previous conventions dating back to 1856, the first Republican National Convention. At both 1860 and 1868 conventions, some delegations arrived with instructions or recommendations from their state conventions on which candidate to vote for, and at both conventions the right of delegates to ignore those directions and vote their consciences was upheld.

The Republican National Convention has also historically rejected the idea that state laws could bind delegates any more than state party rules or directions could. The very first time delegates were supposedly bound by state law was at the 1912 convention.

Both the Illinois and Oregon delegations announced that state law dictated how they were to vote, but that some delegates did not want to vote as ordered. In the same way the Republican convention had always rejected any sort of binding, those delegates were allowed to vote according to their consciences and ignore state law. The Oregon delegation made similar announcements in 1916 and 1920, and each time delegates were allowed to ignore state law and vote their consciences.

Although some claim it is “illegal” for delegates to defy state laws instructing them how to vote, the U.S. Supreme Court held in two cases nearly forty years ago that state laws could not trump national party rules. Part of their reasoning was that political parties must be free from government control, particularly in matters as important as who the party’s nominee would be, delegate selection, and how delegates could vote.

A careful reading of the rules passed by the 2012 Republican National Convention proves this to be the common understanding and practice of the party. Rules 14 and 16, which govern the election and selection of delegates to the convention, include several references to the fact that the national convention is free to ignore state law, including two occasions where rules begin with the phrase “No state law shall be observed…”

And Rule 16(b)(1) stipulates that state party rules take precedence over state laws governing the election and selection of delegates, and that national party rules take precedence over both. So clearly the national party does not accept that state laws can supersede either state or national party rules.

The only time delegates have been bound by primary results or anything else was in 1976, when the campaign of President Gerald Ford pushed through a rule requiring votes from nineteen states with laws purporting to bind delegates be announced and recorded as if those laws were valid. It was widely understood at the time those laws were unconstitutional as a result of a recent Supreme Court ruling, but the rule was sufficient to bind delegates’ votes for the first time in Republican National Convention history.

The gambit seemed to pay off, as it helped Ford defeat his challenger, former California Gov. Ronald Reagan. At the 1980 convention the rule change pushed through by Ford was eliminated, and the rule reverted back to essentially the same language as the rule first adopted at the 1880 convention. The rule remains largely identical today.

The last remaining argument by those seeking to impose binding on delegates is Rule 16(a)2, which supposedly directs the secretary of the convention to record votes “in accordance with the delegate’s obligation under these rules, state law, or state party rule.” But there are two major problems with this rule.

The first is that it contradicts both itself and other national rules. State law and state party rules may conflict, as they do in Virginia, where state law dictates that all delegates must vote for the primary winner while state party rules say delegate votes should be proportional to the outcome. More importantly, both the state law and state party rule conflict with the national convention’s Rule 37(b), which prevents any delegate from being bound.

Second and most importantly is that Rule 16 is not actually part of the convention rules – it was added in 2013 as part of a section of rules that expire at the start of the 2016 convention. The only rules that can affect how delegates vote and whether they are free to vote their conscience are first the temporary and then the permanent rules of the convention. According to Rule 42, those rules are numbers 26 through 42 (plus the rules of the U.S. House of Representatives, which are not relevant to binding).

In short, the history of the Republican National Convention proves that delegates have always, with the exception of 1976, been free to vote their conscience, and the rule that has protected this right over the last 136 years remains part of the temporary rules of the 2016 convention. The U.S. Supreme Court’s rulings on the issue also make clear that delegates are free to ignore state laws purporting to bind them, and the one national party rule purporting to bind delegates expires at the start of the convention.

These facts make clear that all delegates are completely unbound and free to vote their conscience on any and all matters that come before them, including the first ballot to decide the party’s nominee for president. No rule change is needed to unbind delegates, so long as the party stands by its 160-year history (aside from the blemish of 1976) protecting this important right.

That's from the Hill correct? They didn't get it right according to not only the RNC but the Judge himself. Because the RNC is not bound by any rules but the ones they make themselves. Even the Judge says that governments cannot interfere with the way a political party chooses its nominee.

ETA: Here's the heart of it I believe. All the rules that are currently in place allow for the reading of the way each state voted right? So it doesn't matter if these delegates who are anti Trump want to go koo koo bye bye and nominate Bigfoot, these votes are already locked in.

I reread this part a quizzillion times and I think this lays it out.

"The RNC's rules currently call for the official reading of delegate votes in the way each state's voters, and each state party's rules, assigned them.

The convention's secretary, in other words, will record the votes as the RNC's rules say they should be cast – even if Correll and others were to go rogue."


Read more: Judge gives symbolic legal cover to anti-Trump convention delegates
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[B. Kidd]

I look for the party to be united after the convention and the Romneys and Bushes will be insignificant going into the election. They represent the past.

Hopefully! Along with McCain and Kasich, too!

 

[Care4all]

It was a toothless victory yesterday. Strictly symbolic. Although the way the never Trumpers were running around celebrating, you'd think they already had a Romney/Bush ticket underway.

So all you "open borders " anti Trumpers didn't win jack shit.

"But federal judge Robert E. Payne ruled that the state law can't be enforced because governments can't be allowed to have control over how parties choose their nominees.

It's a token win that may only apply to Correll himself since his didn't qualify as a class-action lawsuit. And the national nomination process is managed by the Republican National Committee – not the state parties.

The RNC's rules currently call for the official reading of delegate votes in the way each state's voters, and each state party's rules, assigned them.

The convention's secretary, in other words, will record the votes as the RNC's rules say they should be cast – even if Correll and others were to go rogue.

So unless the rules are changed when the convention's Rules Committee meets this week in Cleveland, Virginia's vote tally next week won't change – even if Correll and 1,000 other delegates were to cast their votes for Mickey Mouse.

Practically speaking, Payne didn't direct the RNC to change course.

RNC spokeswoman Lindsay Walters told The Washington Post on Monday that Payne's ruling 'upholds the right of political parties to set their own rules for national convention delegate selection and allocation.'

'It affirms our First Amendment right to require that delegates be bound to primary results, and it makes clear that delegates are bound under national party rules.'

That much is true: Payne ruled that the GOP can apply its own rules, under which Trump controls more than enough 'bound' delegates – those committed to support him by their state parties' rules – to win the Republican presidential nomination."


Read more: Judge gives symbolic legal cover to anti-Trump convention delegates
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

But read this view Tiny, and the rest of the article here:


All delegates are unbound

As the Republican National Convention prepares to kick off next week in Cleveland, there is a lot of confusion and controversy over the question of whether delegates to the convention are “bound” to vote for any particular candidate as a result of primary or caucus results, or state party directions.

The controversy stems from the fact that a large number of delegates believe they cannot in good conscience vote for presumed nominee Donald Trump, while the confusion stems from either a misunderstanding of the history and rules of the Republican National Convention, or more recently a blizzard of misinformation and misdirection coming from those who wish delegates were bound

Here are the facts about delegates to the Republican National Convention and efforts to bind their vote according to primary results or instructions from their state party.
Republican delegates to the national convention have always been unbound by national party rules, with the single exception. The issue was decisively settled in 1876 when delegates voted 395 to 353 to uphold past rulings stating that delegates could not be bound to vote against their conscience. Following the vote, the chairman of the convention summarized the party’s position by saying “t is he right of every individual member thereof to vote his individual sentiments.”

In the following convention in 1880, rules committee chair James A. Garfield, who wound up winning the nomination himself on the 36th ballot and the White House that fall, wrote what is today Rule 37(b) of the temporary rules of the convention. This rule was enacted specifically to provide a mechanism that would ensure every delegate was unbound and free to vote their conscience, and it gave every delegate the right to challenge his delegation’s announced vote on the floor of the convention and have his vote recorded as he wished.

In rejecting the binding of delegates, both the 1876 and 1880 conventions were embracing what had been the understanding of previous conventions dating back to 1856, the first Republican National Convention. At both 1860 and 1868 conventions, some delegations arrived with instructions or recommendations from their state conventions on which candidate to vote for, and at both conventions the right of delegates to ignore those directions and vote their consciences was upheld.

The Republican National Convention has also historically rejected the idea that state laws could bind delegates any more than state party rules or directions could. The very first time delegates were supposedly bound by state law was at the 1912 convention.

Both the Illinois and Oregon delegations announced that state law dictated how they were to vote, but that some delegates did not want to vote as ordered. In the same way the Republican convention had always rejected any sort of binding, those delegates were allowed to vote according to their consciences and ignore state law. The Oregon delegation made similar announcements in 1916 and 1920, and each time delegates were allowed to ignore state law and vote their consciences.

Although some claim it is “illegal” for delegates to defy state laws instructing them how to vote, the U.S. Supreme Court held in two cases nearly forty years ago that state laws could not trump national party rules. Part of their reasoning was that political parties must be free from government control, particularly in matters as important as who the party’s nominee would be, delegate selection, and how delegates could vote.

A careful reading of the rules passed by the 2012 Republican National Convention proves this to be the common understanding and practice of the party. Rules 14 and 16, which govern the election and selection of delegates to the convention, include several references to the fact that the national convention is free to ignore state law, including two occasions where rules begin with the phrase “No state law shall be observed…”

And Rule 16(b)(1) stipulates that state party rules take precedence over state laws governing the election and selection of delegates, and that national party rules take precedence over both. So clearly the national party does not accept that state laws can supersede either state or national party rules.

The only time delegates have been bound by primary results or anything else was in 1976, when the campaign of President Gerald Ford pushed through a rule requiring votes from nineteen states with laws purporting to bind delegates be announced and recorded as if those laws were valid. It was widely understood at the time those laws were unconstitutional as a result of a recent Supreme Court ruling, but the rule was sufficient to bind delegates’ votes for the first time in Republican National Convention history.

The gambit seemed to pay off, as it helped Ford defeat his challenger, former California Gov. Ronald Reagan. At the 1980 convention the rule change pushed through by Ford was eliminated, and the rule reverted back to essentially the same language as the rule first adopted at the 1880 convention. The rule remains largely identical today.

The last remaining argument by those seeking to impose binding on delegates is Rule 16(a)2, which supposedly directs the secretary of the convention to record votes “in accordance with the delegate’s obligation under these rules, state law, or state party rule.” But there are two major problems with this rule.

The first is that it contradicts both itself and other national rules. State law and state party rules may conflict, as they do in Virginia, where state law dictates that all delegates must vote for the primary winner while state party rules say delegate votes should be proportional to the outcome. More importantly, both the state law and state party rule conflict with the national convention’s Rule 37(b), which prevents any delegate from being bound.

Second and most importantly is that Rule 16 is not actually part of the convention rules – it was added in 2013 as part of a section of rules that expire at the start of the 2016 convention. The only rules that can affect how delegates vote and whether they are free to vote their conscience are first the temporary and then the permanent rules of the convention. According to Rule 42, those rules are numbers 26 through 42 (plus the rules of the U.S. House of Representatives, which are not relevant to binding).

In short, the history of the Republican National Convention proves that delegates have always, with the exception of 1976, been free to vote their conscience, and the rule that has protected this right over the last 136 years remains part of the temporary rules of the 2016 convention. The U.S. Supreme Court’s rulings on the issue also make clear that delegates are free to ignore state laws purporting to bind them, and the one national party rule purporting to bind delegates expires at the start of the convention.

These facts make clear that all delegates are completely unbound and free to vote their conscience on any and all matters that come before them, including the first ballot to decide the party’s nominee for president. No rule change is needed to unbind delegates, so long as the party stands by its 160-year history (aside from the blemish of 1976) protecting this important right.

People will see what they want to see and read into it what they want, especially those who are desperate or in denial but Trump is the one with the votes. He won it fair and square and the Republican establishment sees their death grip on the party being broken.
It's ironic that the Republican establishment and the Bush family are acting exactly like the Gore campaign did in 2000. They agreed to play by a certain set of rules that they thought would favor them, then when they lost by those rules, they wanted to change them to make them the winner.

Trump did win the Primaries, fair and square. I agree with you.

But, the RNC can pick whomever candidate they want whether there are primaries or no primaries...or pulled his or her name out of a hat, because they are a private group.

I don't think I ever truly understood the depth of this, until this primary, on both the right wing and left wing sides of the aisle!!

 

[Care4all]

It was a toothless victory yesterday. Strictly symbolic. Although the way the never Trumpers were running around celebrating, you'd think they already had a Romney/Bush ticket underway.

So all you "open borders " anti Trumpers didn't win jack shit.

"But federal judge Robert E. Payne ruled that the state law can't be enforced because governments can't be allowed to have control over how parties choose their nominees.

It's a token win that may only apply to Correll himself since his didn't qualify as a class-action lawsuit. And the national nomination process is managed by the Republican National Committee – not the state parties.

The RNC's rules currently call for the official reading of delegate votes in the way each state's voters, and each state party's rules, assigned them.

The convention's secretary, in other words, will record the votes as the RNC's rules say they should be cast – even if Correll and others were to go rogue.

So unless the rules are changed when the convention's Rules Committee meets this week in Cleveland, Virginia's vote tally next week won't change – even if Correll and 1,000 other delegates were to cast their votes for Mickey Mouse.

Practically speaking, Payne didn't direct the RNC to change course.

RNC spokeswoman Lindsay Walters told The Washington Post on Monday that Payne's ruling 'upholds the right of political parties to set their own rules for national convention delegate selection and allocation.'

'It affirms our First Amendment right to require that delegates be bound to primary results, and it makes clear that delegates are bound under national party rules.'

That much is true: Payne ruled that the GOP can apply its own rules, under which Trump controls more than enough 'bound' delegates – those committed to support him by their state parties' rules – to win the Republican presidential nomination."


Read more: Judge gives symbolic legal cover to anti-Trump convention delegates
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

But read this view Tiny, and the rest of the article here:


All delegates are unbound

As the Republican National Convention prepares to kick off next week in Cleveland, there is a lot of confusion and controversy over the question of whether delegates to the convention are “bound” to vote for any particular candidate as a result of primary or caucus results, or state party directions.

The controversy stems from the fact that a large number of delegates believe they cannot in good conscience vote for presumed nominee Donald Trump, while the confusion stems from either a misunderstanding of the history and rules of the Republican National Convention, or more recently a blizzard of misinformation and misdirection coming from those who wish delegates were bound

Here are the facts about delegates to the Republican National Convention and efforts to bind their vote according to primary results or instructions from their state party.
Republican delegates to the national convention have always been unbound by national party rules, with the single exception. The issue was decisively settled in 1876 when delegates voted 395 to 353 to uphold past rulings stating that delegates could not be bound to vote against their conscience. Following the vote, the chairman of the convention summarized the party’s position by saying “t is he right of every individual member thereof to vote his individual sentiments.”

In the following convention in 1880, rules committee chair James A. Garfield, who wound up winning the nomination himself on the 36th ballot and the White House that fall, wrote what is today Rule 37(b) of the temporary rules of the convention. This rule was enacted specifically to provide a mechanism that would ensure every delegate was unbound and free to vote their conscience, and it gave every delegate the right to challenge his delegation’s announced vote on the floor of the convention and have his vote recorded as he wished.

In rejecting the binding of delegates, both the 1876 and 1880 conventions were embracing what had been the understanding of previous conventions dating back to 1856, the first Republican National Convention. At both 1860 and 1868 conventions, some delegations arrived with instructions or recommendations from their state conventions on which candidate to vote for, and at both conventions the right of delegates to ignore those directions and vote their consciences was upheld.

The Republican National Convention has also historically rejected the idea that state laws could bind delegates any more than state party rules or directions could. The very first time delegates were supposedly bound by state law was at the 1912 convention.

Both the Illinois and Oregon delegations announced that state law dictated how they were to vote, but that some delegates did not want to vote as ordered. In the same way the Republican convention had always rejected any sort of binding, those delegates were allowed to vote according to their consciences and ignore state law. The Oregon delegation made similar announcements in 1916 and 1920, and each time delegates were allowed to ignore state law and vote their consciences.

Although some claim it is “illegal” for delegates to defy state laws instructing them how to vote, the U.S. Supreme Court held in two cases nearly forty years ago that state laws could not trump national party rules. Part of their reasoning was that political parties must be free from government control, particularly in matters as important as who the party’s nominee would be, delegate selection, and how delegates could vote.

A careful reading of the rules passed by the 2012 Republican National Convention proves this to be the common understanding and practice of the party. Rules 14 and 16, which govern the election and selection of delegates to the convention, include several references to the fact that the national convention is free to ignore state law, including two occasions where rules begin with the phrase “No state law shall be observed…”

And Rule 16(b)(1) stipulates that state party rules take precedence over state laws governing the election and selection of delegates, and that national party rules take precedence over both. So clearly the national party does not accept that state laws can supersede either state or national party rules.

The only time delegates have been bound by primary results or anything else was in 1976, when the campaign of President Gerald Ford pushed through a rule requiring votes from nineteen states with laws purporting to bind delegates be announced and recorded as if those laws were valid. It was widely understood at the time those laws were unconstitutional as a result of a recent Supreme Court ruling, but the rule was sufficient to bind delegates’ votes for the first time in Republican National Convention history.

The gambit seemed to pay off, as it helped Ford defeat his challenger, former California Gov. Ronald Reagan. At the 1980 convention the rule change pushed through by Ford was eliminated, and the rule reverted back to essentially the same language as the rule first adopted at the 1880 convention. The rule remains largely identical today.

The last remaining argument by those seeking to impose binding on delegates is Rule 16(a)2, which supposedly directs the secretary of the convention to record votes “in accordance with the delegate’s obligation under these rules, state law, or state party rule.” But there are two major problems with this rule.

The first is that it contradicts both itself and other national rules. State law and state party rules may conflict, as they do in Virginia, where state law dictates that all delegates must vote for the primary winner while state party rules say delegate votes should be proportional to the outcome. More importantly, both the state law and state party rule conflict with the national convention’s Rule 37(b), which prevents any delegate from being bound.

Second and most importantly is that Rule 16 is not actually part of the convention rules – it was added in 2013 as part of a section of rules that expire at the start of the 2016 convention. The only rules that can affect how delegates vote and whether they are free to vote their conscience are first the temporary and then the permanent rules of the convention. According to Rule 42, those rules are numbers 26 through 42 (plus the rules of the U.S. House of Representatives, which are not relevant to binding).

In short, the history of the Republican National Convention proves that delegates have always, with the exception of 1976, been free to vote their conscience, and the rule that has protected this right over the last 136 years remains part of the temporary rules of the 2016 convention. The U.S. Supreme Court’s rulings on the issue also make clear that delegates are free to ignore state laws purporting to bind them, and the one national party rule purporting to bind delegates expires at the start of the convention.

These facts make clear that all delegates are completely unbound and free to vote their conscience on any and all matters that come before them, including the first ballot to decide the party’s nominee for president. No rule change is needed to unbind delegates, so long as the party stands by its 160-year history (aside from the blemish of 1976) protecting this important right.

That's from the Hill correct? They didn't get it right according to not only the RNC but the Judge himself. Because the RNC is not bound by any rules but the ones they make themselves. Even the Judge says that governments cannot interfere with the way a political party chooses its nominee.

ETA: Here's the heart of it I believe. All the rules that are currently in place allow for the reading of the way each state voted right? So it doesn't matter if these delegates who are anti Trump want to go koo koo bye bye and nominate Bigfoot, these votes are already locked in.

I reread this part a quizzillion times and I think this lays it out.

"The RNC's rules currently call for the official reading of delegate votes in the way each state's voters, and each state party's rules, assigned them.

The convention's secretary, in other words, will record the votes as the RNC's rules say they should be cast – even if Correll and others were to go rogue."


Read more: Judge gives symbolic legal cover to anti-Trump convention delegates
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

it's from a BRAND NEW the Hill article, not the one from 5 days ago, that gave a completely OPPOSITE view than this last article. I've read both.

This last article though truly seems to be correct, given all of the facts they listed on the party's history!!!

 

[B. Kidd]

It was a toothless victory yesterday. Strictly symbolic. Although the way the never Trumpers were running around celebrating, you'd think they already had a Romney/Bush ticket underway.

So all you "open borders " anti Trumpers didn't win jack shit.

"But federal judge Robert E. Payne ruled that the state law can't be enforced because governments can't be allowed to have control over how parties choose their nominees.

It's a token win that may only apply to Correll himself since his didn't qualify as a class-action lawsuit. And the national nomination process is managed by the Republican National Committee – not the state parties.

The RNC's rules currently call for the official reading of delegate votes in the way each state's voters, and each state party's rules, assigned them.

The convention's secretary, in other words, will record the votes as the RNC's rules say they should be cast – even if Correll and others were to go rogue.

So unless the rules are changed when the convention's Rules Committee meets this week in Cleveland, Virginia's vote tally next week won't change – even if Correll and 1,000 other delegates were to cast their votes for Mickey Mouse.

Practically speaking, Payne didn't direct the RNC to change course.

RNC spokeswoman Lindsay Walters told The Washington Post on Monday that Payne's ruling 'upholds the right of political parties to set their own rules for national convention delegate selection and allocation.'

'It affirms our First Amendment right to require that delegates be bound to primary results, and it makes clear that delegates are bound under national party rules.'

That much is true: Payne ruled that the GOP can apply its own rules, under which Trump controls more than enough 'bound' delegates – those committed to support him by their state parties' rules – to win the Republican presidential nomination."


Read more: Judge gives symbolic legal cover to anti-Trump convention delegates
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

But read this view Tiny, and the rest of the article here:


All delegates are unbound

As the Republican National Convention prepares to kick off next week in Cleveland, there is a lot of confusion and controversy over the question of whether delegates to the convention are “bound” to vote for any particular candidate as a result of primary or caucus results, or state party directions.

The controversy stems from the fact that a large number of delegates believe they cannot in good conscience vote for presumed nominee Donald Trump, while the confusion stems from either a misunderstanding of the history and rules of the Republican National Convention, or more recently a blizzard of misinformation and misdirection coming from those who wish delegates were bound

Here are the facts about delegates to the Republican National Convention and efforts to bind their vote according to primary results or instructions from their state party.
Republican delegates to the national convention have always been unbound by national party rules, with the single exception. The issue was decisively settled in 1876 when delegates voted 395 to 353 to uphold past rulings stating that delegates could not be bound to vote against their conscience. Following the vote, the chairman of the convention summarized the party’s position by saying “t is he right of every individual member thereof to vote his individual sentiments.”

In the following convention in 1880, rules committee chair James A. Garfield, who wound up winning the nomination himself on the 36th ballot and the White House that fall, wrote what is today Rule 37(b) of the temporary rules of the convention. This rule was enacted specifically to provide a mechanism that would ensure every delegate was unbound and free to vote their conscience, and it gave every delegate the right to challenge his delegation’s announced vote on the floor of the convention and have his vote recorded as he wished.

In rejecting the binding of delegates, both the 1876 and 1880 conventions were embracing what had been the understanding of previous conventions dating back to 1856, the first Republican National Convention. At both 1860 and 1868 conventions, some delegations arrived with instructions or recommendations from their state conventions on which candidate to vote for, and at both conventions the right of delegates to ignore those directions and vote their consciences was upheld.

The Republican National Convention has also historically rejected the idea that state laws could bind delegates any more than state party rules or directions could. The very first time delegates were supposedly bound by state law was at the 1912 convention.

Both the Illinois and Oregon delegations announced that state law dictated how they were to vote, but that some delegates did not want to vote as ordered. In the same way the Republican convention had always rejected any sort of binding, those delegates were allowed to vote according to their consciences and ignore state law. The Oregon delegation made similar announcements in 1916 and 1920, and each time delegates were allowed to ignore state law and vote their consciences.

Although some claim it is “illegal” for delegates to defy state laws instructing them how to vote, the U.S. Supreme Court held in two cases nearly forty years ago that state laws could not trump national party rules. Part of their reasoning was that political parties must be free from government control, particularly in matters as important as who the party’s nominee would be, delegate selection, and how delegates could vote.

A careful reading of the rules passed by the 2012 Republican National Convention proves this to be the common understanding and practice of the party. Rules 14 and 16, which govern the election and selection of delegates to the convention, include several references to the fact that the national convention is free to ignore state law, including two occasions where rules begin with the phrase “No state law shall be observed…”

And Rule 16(b)(1) stipulates that state party rules take precedence over state laws governing the election and selection of delegates, and that national party rules take precedence over both. So clearly the national party does not accept that state laws can supersede either state or national party rules.

The only time delegates have been bound by primary results or anything else was in 1976, when the campaign of President Gerald Ford pushed through a rule requiring votes from nineteen states with laws purporting to bind delegates be announced and recorded as if those laws were valid. It was widely understood at the time those laws were unconstitutional as a result of a recent Supreme Court ruling, but the rule was sufficient to bind delegates’ votes for the first time in Republican National Convention history.

The gambit seemed to pay off, as it helped Ford defeat his challenger, former California Gov. Ronald Reagan. At the 1980 convention the rule change pushed through by Ford was eliminated, and the rule reverted back to essentially the same language as the rule first adopted at the 1880 convention. The rule remains largely identical today.

The last remaining argument by those seeking to impose binding on delegates is Rule 16(a)2, which supposedly directs the secretary of the convention to record votes “in accordance with the delegate’s obligation under these rules, state law, or state party rule.” But there are two major problems with this rule.

The first is that it contradicts both itself and other national rules. State law and state party rules may conflict, as they do in Virginia, where state law dictates that all delegates must vote for the primary winner while state party rules say delegate votes should be proportional to the outcome. More importantly, both the state law and state party rule conflict with the national convention’s Rule 37(b), which prevents any delegate from being bound.

Second and most importantly is that Rule 16 is not actually part of the convention rules – it was added in 2013 as part of a section of rules that expire at the start of the 2016 convention. The only rules that can affect how delegates vote and whether they are free to vote their conscience are first the temporary and then the permanent rules of the convention. According to Rule 42, those rules are numbers 26 through 42 (plus the rules of the U.S. House of Representatives, which are not relevant to binding).

In short, the history of the Republican National Convention proves that delegates have always, with the exception of 1976, been free to vote their conscience, and the rule that has protected this right over the last 136 years remains part of the temporary rules of the 2016 convention. The U.S. Supreme Court’s rulings on the issue also make clear that delegates are free to ignore state laws purporting to bind them, and the one national party rule purporting to bind delegates expires at the start of the convention.

These facts make clear that all delegates are completely unbound and free to vote their conscience on any and all matters that come before them, including the first ballot to decide the party’s nominee for president. No rule change is needed to unbind delegates, so long as the party stands by its 160-year history (aside from the blemish of 1976) protecting this important right.

People will see what they want to see and read into it what they want, especially those who are desperate or in denial but Trump is the one with the votes. He won it fair and square and the Republican establishment sees their death grip on the party being broken.
It's ironic that the Republican establishment and the Bush family are acting exactly like the Gore campaign did in 2000. They agreed to play by a certain set of rules that they thought would favor them, then when they lost by those rules, they wanted to change them to make them the winner.

Trump did win the Primaries, fair and square. I agree with you.

But, the RNC can pick whomever candidate they want whether there are primaries or no primaries...or pulled his or her name out of a hat, because they are a private group.

I don't think I ever truly understood the depth of this, until this primary, on both the right wing and left wing sides of the aisle!!

So, do you think our 2-party system represents the will of the people, or is it more akin to an elitist race to the bottom?

 

[Care4all]

It was a toothless victory yesterday. Strictly symbolic. Although the way the never Trumpers were running around celebrating, you'd think they already had a Romney/Bush ticket underway.

So all you "open borders " anti Trumpers didn't win jack shit.

"But federal judge Robert E. Payne ruled that the state law can't be enforced because governments can't be allowed to have control over how parties choose their nominees.

It's a token win that may only apply to Correll himself since his didn't qualify as a class-action lawsuit. And the national nomination process is managed by the Republican National Committee – not the state parties.

The RNC's rules currently call for the official reading of delegate votes in the way each state's voters, and each state party's rules, assigned them.

The convention's secretary, in other words, will record the votes as the RNC's rules say they should be cast – even if Correll and others were to go rogue.

So unless the rules are changed when the convention's Rules Committee meets this week in Cleveland, Virginia's vote tally next week won't change – even if Correll and 1,000 other delegates were to cast their votes for Mickey Mouse.

Practically speaking, Payne didn't direct the RNC to change course.

RNC spokeswoman Lindsay Walters told The Washington Post on Monday that Payne's ruling 'upholds the right of political parties to set their own rules for national convention delegate selection and allocation.'

'It affirms our First Amendment right to require that delegates be bound to primary results, and it makes clear that delegates are bound under national party rules.'

That much is true: Payne ruled that the GOP can apply its own rules, under which Trump controls more than enough 'bound' delegates – those committed to support him by their state parties' rules – to win the Republican presidential nomination."


Read more: Judge gives symbolic legal cover to anti-Trump convention delegates
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

But read this view Tiny, and the rest of the article here:


All delegates are unbound

As the Republican National Convention prepares to kick off next week in Cleveland, there is a lot of confusion and controversy over the question of whether delegates to the convention are “bound” to vote for any particular candidate as a result of primary or caucus results, or state party directions.

The controversy stems from the fact that a large number of delegates believe they cannot in good conscience vote for presumed nominee Donald Trump, while the confusion stems from either a misunderstanding of the history and rules of the Republican National Convention, or more recently a blizzard of misinformation and misdirection coming from those who wish delegates were bound

Here are the facts about delegates to the Republican National Convention and efforts to bind their vote according to primary results or instructions from their state party.
Republican delegates to the national convention have always been unbound by national party rules, with the single exception. The issue was decisively settled in 1876 when delegates voted 395 to 353 to uphold past rulings stating that delegates could not be bound to vote against their conscience. Following the vote, the chairman of the convention summarized the party’s position by saying “t is he right of every individual member thereof to vote his individual sentiments.”

In the following convention in 1880, rules committee chair James A. Garfield, who wound up winning the nomination himself on the 36th ballot and the White House that fall, wrote what is today Rule 37(b) of the temporary rules of the convention. This rule was enacted specifically to provide a mechanism that would ensure every delegate was unbound and free to vote their conscience, and it gave every delegate the right to challenge his delegation’s announced vote on the floor of the convention and have his vote recorded as he wished.

In rejecting the binding of delegates, both the 1876 and 1880 conventions were embracing what had been the understanding of previous conventions dating back to 1856, the first Republican National Convention. At both 1860 and 1868 conventions, some delegations arrived with instructions or recommendations from their state conventions on which candidate to vote for, and at both conventions the right of delegates to ignore those directions and vote their consciences was upheld.

The Republican National Convention has also historically rejected the idea that state laws could bind delegates any more than state party rules or directions could. The very first time delegates were supposedly bound by state law was at the 1912 convention.

Both the Illinois and Oregon delegations announced that state law dictated how they were to vote, but that some delegates did not want to vote as ordered. In the same way the Republican convention had always rejected any sort of binding, those delegates were allowed to vote according to their consciences and ignore state law. The Oregon delegation made similar announcements in 1916 and 1920, and each time delegates were allowed to ignore state law and vote their consciences.

Although some claim it is “illegal” for delegates to defy state laws instructing them how to vote, the U.S. Supreme Court held in two cases nearly forty years ago that state laws could not trump national party rules. Part of their reasoning was that political parties must be free from government control, particularly in matters as important as who the party’s nominee would be, delegate selection, and how delegates could vote.

A careful reading of the rules passed by the 2012 Republican National Convention proves this to be the common understanding and practice of the party. Rules 14 and 16, which govern the election and selection of delegates to the convention, include several references to the fact that the national convention is free to ignore state law, including two occasions where rules begin with the phrase “No state law shall be observed…”

And Rule 16(b)(1) stipulates that state party rules take precedence over state laws governing the election and selection of delegates, and that national party rules take precedence over both. So clearly the national party does not accept that state laws can supersede either state or national party rules.

The only time delegates have been bound by primary results or anything else was in 1976, when the campaign of President Gerald Ford pushed through a rule requiring votes from nineteen states with laws purporting to bind delegates be announced and recorded as if those laws were valid. It was widely understood at the time those laws were unconstitutional as a result of a recent Supreme Court ruling, but the rule was sufficient to bind delegates’ votes for the first time in Republican National Convention history.

The gambit seemed to pay off, as it helped Ford defeat his challenger, former California Gov. Ronald Reagan. At the 1980 convention the rule change pushed through by Ford was eliminated, and the rule reverted back to essentially the same language as the rule first adopted at the 1880 convention. The rule remains largely identical today.

The last remaining argument by those seeking to impose binding on delegates is Rule 16(a)2, which supposedly directs the secretary of the convention to record votes “in accordance with the delegate’s obligation under these rules, state law, or state party rule.” But there are two major problems with this rule.

The first is that it contradicts both itself and other national rules. State law and state party rules may conflict, as they do in Virginia, where state law dictates that all delegates must vote for the primary winner while state party rules say delegate votes should be proportional to the outcome. More importantly, both the state law and state party rule conflict with the national convention’s Rule 37(b), which prevents any delegate from being bound.

Second and most importantly is that Rule 16 is not actually part of the convention rules – it was added in 2013 as part of a section of rules that expire at the start of the 2016 convention. The only rules that can affect how delegates vote and whether they are free to vote their conscience are first the temporary and then the permanent rules of the convention. According to Rule 42, those rules are numbers 26 through 42 (plus the rules of the U.S. House of Representatives, which are not relevant to binding).

In short, the history of the Republican National Convention proves that delegates have always, with the exception of 1976, been free to vote their conscience, and the rule that has protected this right over the last 136 years remains part of the temporary rules of the 2016 convention. The U.S. Supreme Court’s rulings on the issue also make clear that delegates are free to ignore state laws purporting to bind them, and the one national party rule purporting to bind delegates expires at the start of the convention.

These facts make clear that all delegates are completely unbound and free to vote their conscience on any and all matters that come before them, including the first ballot to decide the party’s nominee for president. No rule change is needed to unbind delegates, so long as the party stands by its 160-year history (aside from the blemish of 1976) protecting this important right.

People will see what they want to see and read into it what they want, especially those who are desperate or in denial but Trump is the one with the votes. He won it fair and square and the Republican establishment sees their death grip on the party being broken.
It's ironic that the Republican establishment and the Bush family are acting exactly like the Gore campaign did in 2000. They agreed to play by a certain set of rules that they thought would favor them, then when they lost by those rules, they wanted to change them to make them the winner.

Trump did win the Primaries, fair and square. I agree with you.

But, the RNC can pick whomever candidate they want whether there are primaries or no primaries...or pulled his or her name out of a hat, because they are a private group.

I don't think I ever truly understood the depth of this, until this primary, on both the right wing and left wing sides of the aisle!!

So, do you think our 2-party system represents the will of the people, or is it more akin to an elitist race to the bottom?

No, I do not think the Primaries are the will of the people, and I do not believe they ever represented the will of the people, even back in our founder's days...nor do I believe the Presidential election represents the 'will of the people' because the people's vote does not select the President, the electors do.

We are a representative Democratic Republic, not a pure Democracy.

I truly have not digested it all and don't know what to think or how I feel about it yet, my head is still spinning with the knowledge finally sinking in...

 

[BluesLegend]

Either way the GOP establishment is destroyed