To Vaccinate or Not To Vaccinate

[rawmilkmike]

Disagree? Well damn I wish your kids the best of luck. I hope they don't need it.

I've taken after my dad--strong immune system from the get-go.
My son had adverse reactions to the Hep B shot he got while he was in the hospital.
He started having breathing difficulties such as retractions and breathing rate was too fast.
I know it was from the Hep B shot because we didn't get that until just a few hours before being discharged.
Malikai was doing just fine until then.

Some vaccinations may be helpful but a child's immune system is fully functional until around two years.
I don't think infants and toddlers should have their new bodies bombarded with foreign substances.

^ This.

My middle kid is in the autistic range (high functioning ... blech, I hate that term). His vaccinations didn't cause his problems, they were there from the get go. But back then the whole mercury/autism thing was buzzing all around. I didn't catch wind of that until my youngest was about to entire Kindergarten. So she had already had her shots but all the vaccine talk got me concerned. So before I just arbitrarily got her all the shots the school/government said she HAD to have, I got her titers checked. All were fine except for whooping cough, which was low but within range. I asked the doc if the shots were given would my daughter be any MORE protected. Nope. So I nixed any further shots for her. Tried like hell to get her to get the chicken pox when my oldest had it ... no such luck. She did get that vaccine (it was before I knew of the vaccine dust-up). My son (the special needs kid) ended up getting a chicken pox booster when he was 18 or 19. At that point, shingles would be more of a concern. I may have her get the booster as well.

Anyway, if I had to do it all over again I'd wait until the kiddo was two before starting any vaccinations, and have their titers checked prior to any boosters. If they needed the booster I'd wait a longer amount of time, space them out.

My career is working with children who have autism. I know many parents, including others in my profession, who have waited to get and/or spaced out vaccinations. If that's a precaution parents want to take I think they are absolutely fine doing that. I also believe that any type of medication should be an absolute last resort and many in my field feel that way as well.

But every professional I know or have known knows that the link between vaccines and autism is not real. There's no causation there.

There's no harm in what you're saying spacing them out and waiting... but I fully believe a child is much better off with vaccinations.

Do you use the GAPS diet?

 

[FA_Q2]

The alternative is a lot more death.

I'm not interested in my kids dying from influenza. I don't want them to die of measles. I don't want them to die of a raging staph infection 18 hours after I decide that it's *more healthy* for my kid to fight off the infection on his or her own.

What about Autism, SIDS, and Shaken Baby Syndrome? Haven't you read the testimonials?

Testimonials?

Why don't you try and find a scientific study that can link any of these to vaccinations? likely because they isn't a single one. You might as well blame earthquakes on vaccinations.

Shaken baby syndrome! Really...

 

[rawmilkmike]

The alternative is a lot more death.

I'm not interested in my kids dying from influenza. I don't want them to die of measles. I don't want them to die of a raging staph infection 18 hours after I decide that it's *more healthy* for my kid to fight off the infection on his or her own.

What about Autism, SIDS, and Shaken Baby Syndrome? Haven't you read the testimonials?

Testimonials?

Why don't you try and find a scientific study that can link any of these to vaccinations? likely because they isn't a single one. You might as well blame earthquakes on vaccinations.

Shaken baby syndrome! Really...

Testimonials come from consumers. So called scientific studies come from the same people selling the vaccines. Why would they publish a study showing their own product is useless? Do you know anything about Shaken baby syndrome? What do the parents say? They brought their child home after their vaccination. The next morning they find their child not breathing. They give them CPR and get charged with shaking their baby, by the same people that gave their child the vaccine. And don't forget all this co-sleeping nonsense. Are you saying vaccines have never killed anyone?

 

[rawmilkmike]

It's amazing that so many people without any training in infections diseases or immunology have become such experts that they are willing to risk the health and lives of their kids and others.

I for one, will follow the advice of my family doctor and my kids doctors even though it might agree with the recommendations from the CDC.

A doctor sells a product just like anyone else. Why would you just take his word and ignore all the horror stores that have been so well document from day one? In resent years you have autism, SIDS, Shaken Baby Syndrome, and Co-sleeping, haven't you read the testimonials? I suppose if your mechanic told you your car needed a Kuhneutson valve you'd believe him? Do you take the used car salesmen's word when he tells you the car just needs a tuneup? It's just like asking a barber if you need a haircut. What is it you think these doctors are experts in?

Kuhneutson Valve - 20.00 KaleCoAuto.com Your home for the rare unusual and hard to find auto parts.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

What is it you think these doctors are experts in?

Medicine! Actual science!!

What are you an expert in? The different flavors of raw milk??

 

[rawmilkmike]

What is it you think these doctors are experts in?

Medicine! Actual science!!

What are you an expert in? The different flavors of raw milk??

Correct, they are Medicine Men. It's not rocket science.

 

[rawmilkmike]

What is it you think these doctors are experts in?

Medicine! Actual science!!

What are you an expert in? The different flavors of raw milk??

A doctor sells a product just like anyone else. Why would you just take his word and ignore all the horror stores. It's like asking a barber if you need a haircut. Raw milk consumers know doctors can not be trusted.

 

[Montrovant]

What is it you think these doctors are experts in?

Medicine! Actual science!!

What are you an expert in? The different flavors of raw milk??

A doctor sells a product just like anyone else. Why would you just take his word and ignore all the horror stores. It's like asking a barber if you need a haircut. Raw milk consumers know doctors can not be trusted.

That's right! No one should ever use medicine. It's all lies! So when you get injured, avoid the hospital. Don't get checkups. Bleeding from somewhere strange? Just drink some raw milk and hope. Hell, don't even pick up anything OTC from a pharmacy, the doctors and researchers that came up with all that stuff are nothing but liars. Got a headache? Don't take asprin, the people who came up with that are the same ones trying to sell you vaccines!

 

[Zoom-boing]

What is it you think these doctors are experts in?

Medicine! Actual science!!

What are you an expert in? The different flavors of raw milk??

A doctor sells a product just like anyone else. Why would you just take his word and ignore all the horror stores. It's like asking a barber if you need a haircut. Raw milk consumers know doctors can not be trusted.

That's right! No one should ever use medicine. It's all lies! So when you get injured, avoid the hospital. Don't get checkups. Bleeding from somewhere strange? Just drink some raw milk and hope. Hell, don't even pick up anything OTC from a pharmacy, the doctors and researchers that came up with all that stuff are nothing but liars. Got a headache? Don't take asprin, the people who came up with that are the same ones trying to sell you vaccines!

No, you're missing the point. Doctors are not gods but often give that impression. My SIL was dx'd with ovarian cancer fifteen years ago. Her oncologist told her not to be looking stuff up on the internet, on her own,etc. that he would take care of her. She died ten years ago. If she had sought other opinions, other options, alternative therapies would she still have lost the battle? Don't know. Personally I believe she made a mistake in putting all her trust into one doc. Just taking a docs 'word' for it, not getting second opinions, not looking into alternative therapies is nuts if you ask me. I don't care how great a doctor is, you know yourself better than he ever will and you will fight for your life harder than anyone else. You are your own best advocate. Not saying that docs are bunk .... but they often only see their part of the puzzle/picture, rather than the whole picture. I find this to be true with most docs.

My brother got sick several years ago (2007 or so). Went to various docs trying to get a dx. Several told him he was depressed and wanted to drug him up. He had a very odd symptom of having a lower than normal body temp but feeling as if he had a 103 fever. One doc actually said to him "it's not that saying you're not telling the truth, but I just don't believe you". Fucker. Turns out my brother had mercury posioning/overload that wrecked havoc with his adrenal glands, his hormones, intestinal yeast infection, among other things. Took him many months and many docs to find one who figured it all out. He's a doc who looks at the whole picture, not just bits and pieces as most docs do.

 

[rawmilkmike]

What is it you think these doctors are experts in?

Medicine! Actual science!!

What are you an expert in? The different flavors of raw milk??

A doctor sells a product just like anyone else. Why would you just take his word and ignore all the horror stores. It's like asking a barber if you need a haircut. Raw milk consumers know doctors can not be trusted.

That's right! No one should ever use medicine. It's all lies! So when you get injured, avoid the hospital. Don't get checkups. Bleeding from somewhere strange? Just drink some raw milk and hope. Hell, don't even pick up anything OTC from a pharmacy, the doctors and researchers that came up with all that stuff are nothing but liars. Got a headache? Don't take asprin, the people who came up with that are the same ones trying to sell you vaccines!

You are not that far off but of course I didn't say you should never get a haircut, just don't ask a barber if you need one. It's interesting you should mention aspirin. Do you know how many people died from aspirins back in 1918 when they first came out.

 

[Zoom-boing]

What is it you think these doctors are experts in?

Medicine! Actual science!!

What are you an expert in? The different flavors of raw milk??

A doctor sells a product just like anyone else. Why would you just take his word and ignore all the horror stores. It's like asking a barber if you need a haircut. Raw milk consumers know doctors can not be trusted.

You are your own best advocate. Just because a doc says "jump" does not mean that "jumping" will fix your problem. I agree with your pov.

 

[Flopper]

The alternative is a lot more death.

I'm not interested in my kids dying from influenza. I don't want them to die of measles. I don't want them to die of a raging staph infection 18 hours after I decide that it's *more healthy* for my kid to fight off the infection on his or her own.

What about Autism, SIDS, and Shaken Baby Syndrome? Haven't you read the testimonials?

Testimonials are not scientific evidence. There are testimonials out there that claim deaths were caused by watching television, using cell phones, and exposure to forts.

Some myths just won't go away such as the belief that vaccines cause SIDS and Autism. This belief came about because a moderate proportion of children who die of SIDS or were diagnosed with Autism had recently been vaccinated. On the surface, this seems to point toward a causal connection. This logic is faulty however; you might as well say that eating bread causes car crashes, since most drivers who crash their cars could probably be shown to have eaten bread within the past 24 hours.

This is first time I've heard Shaken Baby Syndrome blamed on a vaccine. It must have come from a defense attorney attempting to get his client off a murder charge. Babies have weak neck muscles and often struggle to support their heavy heads. If a baby is forcefully shaken, his or her fragile brain moves back and forth inside the skull. This causes bruising, swelling and bleeding. Shaken baby syndrome usually occurs when a parent or caregiver severely shakes a baby or toddler due to frustration or anger — often because the child won't stop crying. Nothing justifies shaking a child.

Vaccines are actually very safe, despite implications to the contrary in many anti-vaccine publications. Most vaccine adverse events are minor and temporary, such as a sore arm or mild fever. These can often be controlled by taking paracetamol after vaccination. More serious adverse events occur rarely (on the order of one per thousands to one per millions of doses), and some are so rare that risk cannot be accurately assessed. As for vaccines causing death, again so few deaths can plausibly be attributed to vaccines that it is hard to assess the risk statistically. However, we know beyond a doubt that vaccines have saved untold millions of lives and will continue to do so in spite of articles by reporters seeking headlines, a quick buck, or just controversy. Unfortunately there are parents that listen to this trash and the kids pay the price.

 

[boedicca]

What is it you think these doctors are experts in?

Medicine! Actual science!!

What are you an expert in? The different flavors of raw milk??

A doctor sells a product just like anyone else. Why would you just take his word and ignore all the horror stores. It's like asking a barber if you need a haircut. Raw milk consumers know doctors can not be trusted.

That's right! No one should ever use medicine. It's all lies! So when you get injured, avoid the hospital. Don't get checkups. Bleeding from somewhere strange? Just drink some raw milk and hope. Hell, don't even pick up anything OTC from a pharmacy, the doctors and researchers that came up with all that stuff are nothing but liars. Got a headache? Don't take asprin, the people who came up with that are the same ones trying to sell you vaccines!

The ObamaCare Tzars love that attitude! That way, they collect the premiums but don't have to provide any services.

 

[rawmilkmike]

The alternative is a lot more death.

I'm not interested in my kids dying from influenza. I don't want them to die of measles. I don't want them to die of a raging staph infection 18 hours after I decide that it's *more healthy* for my kid to fight off the infection on his or her own.

What about Autism, SIDS, and Shaken Baby Syndrome? Haven't you read the testimonials?

Testimonials are not scientific evidence. There are testimonials out there that claim deaths were caused by watching television, using cell phones, and exposure to forts.

Some myths just won't go away such as the belief that vaccines cause SIDS and Autism. This belief came about because a moderate proportion of children who die of SIDS or were diagnosed with Autism had recently been vaccinated. On the surface, this seems to point toward a causal connection. This logic is faulty however; you might as well say that eating bread causes car crashes, since most drivers who crash their cars could probably be shown to have eaten bread within the past 24 hours.

This is first time I've heard Shaken Baby Syndrome blamed on a vaccine. It must have come from a defense attorney attempting to get his client off a murder charge. Babies have weak neck muscles and often struggle to support their heavy heads. If a baby is forcefully shaken, his or her fragile brain moves back and forth inside the skull. This causes bruising, swelling and bleeding. Shaken baby syndrome usually occurs when a parent or caregiver severely shakes a baby or toddler due to frustration or anger — often because the child won't stop crying. Nothing justifies shaking a child.

Vaccines are actually very safe, despite implications to the contrary in many anti-vaccine publications. Most vaccine adverse events are minor and temporary, such as a sore arm or mild fever. These can often be controlled by taking paracetamol after vaccination. More serious adverse events occur rarely (on the order of one per thousands to one per millions of doses), and some are so rare that risk cannot be accurately assessed. As for vaccines causing death, again so few deaths can plausibly be attributed to vaccines that it is hard to assess the risk statistically. However, we know beyond a doubt that vaccines have saved untold millions of lives and will continue to do so in spite of articles by reporters seeking headlines, a quick buck, or just controversy. Unfortunately there are parents that listen to this trash and the kids pay the price.

Dear Dr. Flopper, Because this is the internet even if we were both young working class guys with no conflict of interest we'd have no way of knowing. That means our opinions don't carry much weight here.


Anyone can write and publish science fiction. Do you really think a scientist needs to tell you he's a scientist? A testimonial can be just as scientific as any other study. Technically the only difference is that it is not be published in a medical journal. “Peer-reviewed medical journals are generally considered to be a source of unbiased and reliable information about drugs. But at the same time, most medical journals contain advertisements, almost all of which are for drugs, and which are, by their very nature, biased toward promoting sales of that drug.”


As consumers how do we know that vaccines are as safe and effective as their manufacturers say they are? Who says “Shaken baby syndrome usually occurs when a parent or caregiver severely shakes a baby or toddler due to frustration or anger — often because the child won't stop crying.”? Doctors have lawyers to. This is a simple he said she said but the pharmaceutical industry has unlimited funds and we don't.


If a vaccine can cause a sore arm or mild fever it is certainly capable of much more. How do we the consumer know that “more serious adverse events only occur rarely”? Who writes the death certificate? Who says what is plausible? How do “we know beyond a doubt that vaccines have saved untold millions of lives and will continue to do so”? How do we know the horror stories told by our neighbors are untrue?

 

[rawmilkmike]

What is it you think these doctors are experts in?

Medicine! Actual science!!

What are you an expert in? The different flavors of raw milk??

A doctor sells a product just like anyone else. Why would you just take his word and ignore all the horror stores. It's like asking a barber if you need a haircut. Raw milk consumers know doctors can not be trusted.

That's right! No one should ever use medicine. It's all lies! So when you get injured, avoid the hospital. Don't get checkups. Bleeding from somewhere strange? Just drink some raw milk and hope. Hell, don't even pick up anything OTC from a pharmacy, the doctors and researchers that came up with all that stuff are nothing but liars. Got a headache? Don't take asprin, the people who came up with that are the same ones trying to sell you vaccines!

The ObamaCare Tzars love that attitude! That way, they collect the premiums but don't have to provide any services.

A $5,000 deductible doesn't help either.

 

[boedicca]

What is it you think these doctors are experts in?

Medicine! Actual science!!

What are you an expert in? The different flavors of raw milk??

A doctor sells a product just like anyone else. Why would you just take his word and ignore all the horror stores. It's like asking a barber if you need a haircut. Raw milk consumers know doctors can not be trusted.

That's right! No one should ever use medicine. It's all lies! So when you get injured, avoid the hospital. Don't get checkups. Bleeding from somewhere strange? Just drink some raw milk and hope. Hell, don't even pick up anything OTC from a pharmacy, the doctors and researchers that came up with all that stuff are nothing but liars. Got a headache? Don't take asprin, the people who came up with that are the same ones trying to sell you vaccines!

The ObamaCare Tzars love that attitude! That way, they collect the premiums but don't have to provide any services.

A $5,000 deductible doesn't help either.

Indeed. That's why it's a feature. What a great deterrent to prevent people from using health care services.

 

[rawmilkmike]

Medicine! Actual science!!

What are you an expert in? The different flavors of raw milk??

A doctor sells a product just like anyone else. Why would you just take his word and ignore all the horror stores. It's like asking a barber if you need a haircut. Raw milk consumers know doctors can not be trusted.

That's right! No one should ever use medicine. It's all lies! So when you get injured, avoid the hospital. Don't get checkups. Bleeding from somewhere strange? Just drink some raw milk and hope. Hell, don't even pick up anything OTC from a pharmacy, the doctors and researchers that came up with all that stuff are nothing but liars. Got a headache? Don't take asprin, the people who came up with that are the same ones trying to sell you vaccines!

The ObamaCare Tzars love that attitude! That way, they collect the premiums but don't have to provide any services.

A $5,000 deductible doesn't help either.

Indeed. That's why it's a feature. What a great deterrent to prevent people from using health care services.

And now we are forced to buy fake insurance for our fake illnesses to go with our fake food.

 

[Noomi]

Whoops, had no idea I was in the CDZ. I'm not interested in posting here, adios.

Of course you are. You are quite capable of having a discussion without resorting to name calling. You have some great opinions here and I wish to continue to hear them. So get your butt back in here.

 

[Noomi]

Darlene, I have the flu. If I had been vaccinated, I wouldn't have it. Until at least Saturday, I have the potential to infect dozens of innocent people, including the elderly and small children.
If I can't cope with the flu, how can an elderly person or an infant cope?

Get them vaccinated!

Getting a flu shot doesn't mean you won't get the flu. Science is never 100% true or accurate.

No, but the risk of contracting the flu is greatly reduced.

 

[Noomi]

Getting a cold and the flu actually strengthens the immune system.

Then why do so many people die from it each year?