Time to Pull the Plug on EV’s

[BULLDOG]

Average electric car requires equivalent of 85 pounds of coal or six barrels of oil for a single charge​

Fact check: Claim on electric car charging efficiency gets some math wrong

The average electric car takes energy from about 70 pounds of coal or 8 gallons of oil to charge, but renewable sources are always part of the mix.

www.usatoday.com

The first cell phone batteries weighed about 2 1/2 pounds and would last about 30 minutes of conversation time (talking and listening. talking used more than 5 times as much power.) The phones cost about $4000.

 

[San Souci]

The Achilles’ heel of vehicle electrification is the lithium-ion battery, an inefficient, costly and vulnerable energy-storage system plagued by issues of weight, energy density, low performance in cold weather and grid adequacy — and now also by skyrocketing prices of the key minerals it requires: lithium, cobalt and nickel.

The electric mobility paradigm needs to be recognized for what it has been: a technical and fiscal flop. It should be shelved before it precipitates a serious meltdown of the automotive industry.

It should also be noted it takes over 500,000 pounds of earth to be moved by diesel guzzling machines to make ONE EV battery.

Opinion: Do electric cars ever emerge from policy intensive care?

The electric mobility paradigm needs to be recognized for what it has been: a technical and fiscal flop

financialpost.com

Here is another thought. Ever been on the LA Freeway at rush hour? What if 1000 EV's run out of power?

 

[BULLDOG]

Here is another thought. Ever been on the LA Freeway at rush hour? What if 1000 EV's run out of power?

You think that many people will forget how to read a fuel gauge?

 

[AZrailwhale]

Perhaps youdon't know what their pan is. I promise you that the car manufacturers wouldn't have invested all that money without a plan.
[/the plan is like airbags, the government has told the carmakers they won’t be allowed to stay in business making ICE cars. As soon as that mandate disappears, the carmakers will trash their plans.

 

[AZrailwhale]

You think that many people will forget how to read a fuel gauge?

I’ve been in So Cal traffic jams where it took four hours to go from one off ramp to the next so I could get off the freeway. If your charge was low at the beginning of one of those, you’d be dead in the water long before getting off the freeway to loon for a charging station.

 

[San Souci]

You think that many people will forget how to read a fuel gauge?

Hmmmmm.... How many outlets during rush hour? How many charging stations> ? Nope. EV's suck. Should work on developing a Hydrogen Peroxide engine. Plenty of power and the stuff breaks down to Water and Oxygen.

 

[BULLDOG]

I’ve been in So Cal traffic jams where it took four hours to go from one off ramp to the next so I could get off the freeway. If your charge was low at the beginning of one of those, you’d be dead in the water long before getting off the freeway to loon for a charging station.

Do you think those long traffic jams are a secret that only you know about?

 

[Pellinore]

From what I understand, EVs do require more materials to create, but that is more than made up by the much lower operation requirements compared to ICEs.
Coal isn't exactly the wave of the future, and from an oil plant it would still save on efficiency. Home power drawn from nuclear, solar, wind, etc. would be practically free.
EVs also create far fewer emissions.

Over time, we'll get more efficient at creating new EVs, fielding more efficient batteries, and (my personal biggest concern) installing more charging stations.
The tech will also improve for the other issue you haven't mentioned, disposal. That's not great yet.
They'll get there eventually.

 

[Pellinore]

I’ve been in So Cal traffic jams where it took four hours to go from one off ramp to the next so I could get off the freeway. If your charge was low at the beginning of one of those, you’d be dead in the water long before getting off the freeway to loon for a charging station.

Couldn't the same thing happen with ICE cars that are low on gas?

I imagine some enterprising imagineer will sell the AAA people a fleet of charging vehicles, each loaded with battery parks for instant recharging. I don't see that as a problem.

 

[JohnDB]

EVs require electricity.
Coal and wind power are not free and are virtually the same in decimating bird populations.

Coal contains mercury which when burned decimates bird populations through reduced offspring. Wind power requires turbines...which does the same thing with what is essentially a food processor in the skies. Farmers don't mind the windmills because of the less crop loss...but we actually need the birds to keep the insect population in check.

In people, 80% of the mercury we ingest comes from seafood and freshwater sport fishing.

In Nevada the solar generation array there sits on a slight parabolic...one invisible to the naked eye. However they did notice all the dead birds....it took them a while to figure out that it was literally cooking the birds that flew over just like a mirror can concentrate solar power.

We are currently short on power in America. We need more electricity.

They need to figure something out.
Maybe if they stopped fighting and issuing controversial and ridiculous mandates long enough to actually come up with viable and reasonable solutions.

 

[martybegan]

2035 is a long way off. It is California. What else needs to be said? I never lost anything out there and have no reason to visit. Basically the same comment for New York.

Less than 13 years isn't a long way off.

Those two are just the start.

If EV's are so awesome, why does government need to force them on people?

 

[JohnDB]

Less than 13 years isn't a long way off.

Those two are just the start.

If EV's are so awesome, why does government need to force them on people?

Back during Obama or Bush Jr....I can't remember....GM had a plan for fuel cell cars. They worked on a plan and were putting the infrastructure in place to make it happen.

There are lots of things that can be used as fuel for a fuel cell car. Everything from JP8 to ethanol. GM chose ethanol due to the least amount of contaminants possible that would destroy the fuel cell.

So we began to see flex fuel vehicles that could burn ethanol or gasoline in an ICE engine with fuel cell cars coming along eventually....being phased in over time to ensure customer acceptance.

And these vehicles do work fairly well....even SUV models are reasonable to drive and fuel.

Then the plans got scrapped under Trump. All research and conversion plans got shelved.

Fuel cell tech only gives off water as an exhaust. The cells are susceptible to contamination but the main source of power is the batteries for the electric motor. These SUV type vehicles start at 45mpg. I'm sure with some of the recent improvements to EV technology that they can do even better.

The fuel cells rely heavily on platinum for the conversion of fuel to electricity and the hydrogen is safe enough in the small quantities stored.

There was some new tech just starting that used iron as a base reactor metal instead of platinum....but like I said...it got scrapped.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Do you believe that? I don't believe that. I would like to see the Vegas line on that bet.

I don't think you would. Let's look at what is happening.

Most shops will not touch EV's. There is very little that is replaceable without replacing the whole battery assembly. As the output on these is around 330VDC, most mechanics won't touch them due to fire and electrocution risks. (its not AC but DC can do pretty good job at killing someone and most will not touch these sealed units). Those that do charge 1 to 2 grand a cell they replace inside these.

If you have a crush accident, the car is totaled. The batteries are unsafe to use due to breakage of the internal components.

The lithium battery packs short out during charging. Insurance companies want you to charge them outside of your home due to this fire risk.

IN temps below 32 deg F the battery life is reduced by 50%

I am betting the numbers are 1-1 for your bet..

 

[Billy_Bob]

Less than 13 years isn't a long way off.

Those two are just the start.

If EV's are so awesome, why does government need to force them on people?

MONEY for their donors who put them in office... it's not about the environment, it's about profit in the pocket..

 

[Maxdeath]

Perhaps youdon't know what their pan is. I promise you that the car manufacturers wouldn't have invested all that money without a plan.

Lol. Funny that you think anyone has a plan but can not point to it.
Our electrical grid is just about maxed out. We are not building new power plants. But yet crazy fools are pretending that we will replace millions of cars with EVs. Some even point to wind and solar. Of course they can not explain how we are going to cover most of the ground with all that and still eat but it is a good pipe dream.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Lol. Funny that you think anyone has a plan but can not point to it.
Our electrical grid is just about maxed out. We are not building new power plants. But yet crazy fools are pretending that we will replace millions of cars with EVs. Some even point to wind and solar. Of course they can not explain how we are going to cover most of the ground with all that and still eat but it is a good pipe dream.

This is all about maximum money into the donor class pockets. It is not about the environment.

They have failed to prepare our power grid. Failed to create sufficient power generation to keep that grid stable. but they want to do as much damage to our industries as possible in the shortest amount of time possible knowing they might regain power before we can get this cluster fuck fixed. These people are nothing short of pure evil.

 

[BULLDOG]

Lol. Funny that you think anyone has a plan but can not point to it.
Our electrical grid is just about maxed out. We are not building new power plants. But yet crazy fools are pretending that we will replace millions of cars with EVs. Some even point to wind and solar. Of course they can not explain how we are going to cover most of the ground with all that and still eat but it is a good pipe dream.

It's the car manufacturer's plan, and I don't need to know the specifics. They can spend their money to develop any technology they want. I don't have to buy their product if I don't like how it turns out.

 

[White 6]

Less than 13 years isn't a long way off.

Those two are just the start.

If EV's are so awesome, why does government need to force them on people?

Yes and we are alway 13 years off from a lot of crap that either does not come to pass or not in anything near the timeframe some assholes projected. The industry will continue to expand, but I do not see it viably leading to bans effecting the country and economy in that timeframe.

 

[martybegan]

Yes and we are alway 13 years off from a lot of crap that either does not come to pass or not in anything near the timeframe some assholes projected. The industry will continue to expand, but I do not see it viably leading to bans effecting the country and economy in that timeframe.

Then why are they wasting time and promising the bans?

How about this, if we get to 2035 and the bans come into effect, you owe me $10,000.00.

Money where your mouth(err fingers) is/are?

 

[White 6]

I don't think you would. Let's look at what is happening.

Most shops will not touch EV's. There is very little that is replaceable without replacing the whole battery assembly. As the output on these is around 330VDC, most mechanics won't touch them due to fire and electrocution risks. (its not AC but DC can do pretty good job at killing someone and most will not touch these sealed units). Those that do charge 1 to 2 grand a cell they replace inside these.

If you have a crush accident, the car is totaled. The batteries are unsafe to use due to breakage of the internal components.

The lithium battery packs short out during charging. Insurance companies want you to charge them outside of your home due to this fire risk.

IN temps below 32 deg F the battery life is reduced by 50%

I am betting the numbers are 1-1 for your bet..

DC tends to burn and melt stuff, rather than electrocute, though I have seen batteries explode at electro-lift charging stations and battery maintenance back in my industrial days and even in the military.