Time to do away with the major political parties

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Agreed. Political parties should be abolished. Every candidate should stand alone.

And while we’re dreaming, let’s abolish all private funding of political campaigns and impose term limits on Congress.

Another vote from the authoritarian right to do away with the First Amendment.

Again, the problem isn’t the political parties – the problem is this sort of ignorance of the Constitution and the political process.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This is where the utterly infantile & reactionary logic of all who say “abolish the major parties” usually leads — military or populist dictatorship, communist or fascist dictatorship, or utter chaos, demagoguery, violation of Constitutional rights and civil war. Even the stupidest MAGA enthusiast should understand this much.

“Opposing” the “two party system” or just being sick of both party’s politics is one thing. This can be perfectly reasonable.

Entirely different is calling for “abolishing” major parties without specifying how that can be done whilst maintaining civic rights to political association, representative republican institutions and our still remarkably free society.

History shows that the only stable way to rule a large free modern country is to have rule of law, separation of powers, and at least two reasonably healthy parties which occasionally replace one another in power — thus tending to limit entrenched corruption.

Fools who call for a military dictatorship or a one man dictatorship are part of the problem — not part of any solution to all the extremist madness that exists in our society and political life today.

Correct.

Abolishing political parties is the first thing authoritarian fascists seek to do.

 

[Donald H]

No. The coup I’m speaking of happened long ago and is essentially complete. A rapacious oligarchy has completed its take over of our government. Trump is merely a symptom of the people trying to stop this outlaw government. Of course, Trump is not the guy for the job.

I only disagree with you saying that it's complete.

 

[AntonToo]

I want to see

Newsflash: Nobody cares.

 

[Votto]

First you must do away with the First Amendment.

The problem isn’t the political parties – the problem is this sort of ignorance of the Constitution and the political process.

Where in the First amendment are political parties protected exactly?

 

[Votto]

Newsflash: Nobody cares.

If you don't care, why do you pollute my thread?

I get the fact the democrats don't care about a great many things, let alone how voters feel.

 

[jwoodie]

No corporate donations.

Only if it includes labor unions. That was the crux of the Citizens United decision.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

As I see things the simple reality is that most of those who want coups and insurrections, or even just an elected authoritarian like Trump to abolish or rise above parties, actually haven’t any idea of how to “Drain the Swamp” or correct all the social problems in society, let alone solve economic problems of modern capitalism — which after all is at the root of much corruption in the parties.

The extremists in the two parties, particularly in the Trump cult that now dominates the Republicans, thrive on culture war issues and demagogery, Real issues like immigration reform require bipartisan agreements that radicals on both sides have made almost impossible to even discuss.

So the first order of business is to stop the madness that prevents compromise politics. Defeating the Trump cult becomes crucial here.

But much more needs to be done to undercut the big money corruption of both parties, and we need fundamental electoral reforms like ranked choice voting that will make it easier to create third parties and to vote for independents.

Electoral reforms and financing political campaign reforms (starting with getting rid of Citizen’s United), ending the culture wars through compromise — like all other needed changes in society — will require at least some cross-party discussion and agreement.

The pro-coup fanatics and seditionists certainly will not consider such efforts, or just throw up their hands and say the sky is falling and this is all too little too late. They are profoundly mistaken.

 

[Votto]

As I see things the simple reality is that most of those who want coups and insurrections, or even just an elected authoritarian like Trump to abolish or rise above parties, actually haven’t any idea of how to “Drain the Swamp” or correct all the social problems in society, let alone solve economic problems of modern capitalism — which after all is at the root of much corruption in the parties.

The extremists in the two parties, particularly in the Trump cult that now dominates the Republicans, thrive on culture war issues and demagogery, Real issues like immigration reform require bipartisan agreements that radicals on both sides have made almost impossible to even discuss.

So the first order of business is to stop the madness that prevents compromise politics. Defeating the Trump cult becomes crucial here. But much more needs to be done to undercut the big money corruption of both parties, and we need fundamental electoral reforms like ranked choice voting that will make it easier to create third parties and to vote for independents. But electoral reforms and financing political campaign reforms (starting with getting rid of Citizen’s United) all require cross-party discussion and agreement. The pro-coup crowd will mostly not even consider such efforts.

I honestly don't think either side really cares how they may get power, as long as they get it.

Talking about caring about democracy I think is just virtue signaling.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I honestly don't think either side really cares how they may get power, as long as they get it.

Talking about caring about democracy I think is just virtue signaling.

The question is whether the American people, who unlike ambitious politicians have no interest in perpetuating disfunctional political wars, and have much to gain by ending them, whether we care enough about preserving our democracy and national cohesion.

If we do, then we need just to use our “common sense” (no “virtue signaling” necessary) to absolutely reject any and all divisive demagogues who suggest “terminating” the rule of law and our Constitution.

 

[my2¢]

Time to do away with the major political parties​

I made that choice in 1980. Voted for Libertarian Clark that year. Reagan got elected. After 8 years of voodoo economics the national debt limit had risen 66%.

 

[Votto]

The question is whether the American people, who unlike ambitious politicians have no interest in perpetuating disfunctional political wars, and have much to gain by ending them, whether we care enough about preserving our democracy and national cohesion.

If we do, then we need just to use our “common sense” (no “virtue signaling” necessary) to absolutely reject any and all divisive demagogues who suggest “terminating” the rule of law and our Constitution.

Is it better to talk about terminating laws or just ignoring them?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Is it better to talk about terminating laws or just ignoring them?

I don’t see why we can’t talk about both.

 

[Votto]

I don’t see why we can’t talk about both.

As we watch Biden's son evade felony charges and not paying taxes, or we watch laws on immigration be ignored as well, or we pretend to have laws, like with the Covid mess, I'm not sure what good laws even do anymore.

America has become a nation of all powerful men, and not laws.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

As we watch Biden's son evade felony charges and not paying taxes, or we watch laws on immigration be ignored as well, or we pretend to have laws, like with the Covid mess, I'm not sure what good laws even do anymore.

America has become a nation of all powerful men, and not laws.

Biden’s son is small potatoes, rotten potatoes no doubt, and I would love to see him prosecuted for any laws he broke — but I think it is not a very important issue, no more than Trump’s son-in-law getting billions to invest for the Saudis.

Immigration is a big issue, without doubt, and I believe the national Mexican border issue and refugee policy has been handled poorly by the Dems … and Trump too. I’m not sure which if any “laws” have been violated by either side, but I think administratively there have been plenty of mistakes.

I think new legislation is needed for sure. It’s actually long overdo, to set up guidelines for providing long-established undocumented families a road to citizenship, and to expand the use of existing programs to check for legal status for employment, set up visa work programs, and revise and tighten significantly our refugee policy guidelines. But here, as I said, compromise will be needed to get anything done in Congress.

 

[WinterBorn]

The people who suddenly claim to be dissatisfied with major political parties are generally democrats who hate Trump but can't bring themselves to support Biden.

Or they are people who have sense enough to not want the squabbling and in-fighting we currently have. And they could be people who think we waste a lot of time and money with no benefit to us.

And just as an FYI, I have been calling for the removal of the 2 party system since before Trump ever ran for office.

 

[candycorn]

I've reached this decision after discussing the issue with several people.

For the first time in history, the United States will not have a Presidential debate in either party.

Now I realize the GOP has one without Trump but Trump is like the incumbent Biden, who is untouchable.

And with the legal troubles looming over Trump during the time to debate Biden, will Trump decline based on not wanting to talk about his cases before trial? So it may be that we won't get those debates either.

I've discussed the issue with a few democrats and republicans and the consensus is the same, they don't care. None of them care.

However, according to polls well than half the majority in each party don't want to see another Biden/Trump match up, which is unavoidable now.

The party system is pure poison. All that motivates people to vote now is how their cult party tells them to vote, even though it is not really what they want.

Imagine people having to listen to a candidate talk and assess them by themselves, without their party telling them to discard them because of their particular party they are affiliated with.

People's brains would implode!!

The Democrats are ready, willing and able to debate next Fall under the auspices of the CPD which has both democrats and republicans on it.

The GOP is deciding not to debate (as of this time).

I’m pretty sure there will be a debate though. The GOP will have its debate in July of 2024 next year. Whomever is the nominee will have at their disposal 3 debates--4 hours of free air time where every news channel will be showing them speaking. There isn’t a candidate alive who is going to turn that down. If they do turn it down...the republican you’re going to vote for is truly spineless and an anvil for the GOP establishment.

Still want to vote for him? Of course you do. You, also, are truly spineless.

 

[FA_Q2]

Here is a crazy idea, how about simply looking at his policy proposals to get yourself out of confusion?

His proposals are not to nationalize industries like Venezuela or do away with capitalism, his proposals are higher minimum wage and public funding of education/healthcare like some Europian countries.

Uh huh.

Power to the people: Bernie calls for federal takeover of electricity production

Sanders wants federally owned utilities to build massive amounts of wind and solar to compete with private generators, but critics say that would complicate an already tricky transition to clean energy.

www.politico.com

Why do Sanders people always lie about him? He wants to nationalize energy, essentially nationalize collage, nationalize healthcare and banking. Unless you think unilaterally 'disbanding' companies he deems to risky to exist is somehow not nationalizing.

Bernie Sanders Vows to Break up Nation's Largest Banks Within His First Year

Presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders has vowed to break up the country’s largest banks and insurance companies within the first year of taking office.

abcnews.go.com

And, as far as I know, he has never disavowed any of the calls to nationalize massive sections of the economy in the 70s.

Bernie Sanders in the 1970s urged nationalization of most major industries | CNN Politics

Bernie Sanders advocated for the nationalization of most major industries, including energy companies, factories, and banks, when he was a leading member of a self-described "radical political party" in the 1970s, a CNN KFile review of his record reveals.

www.cnn.com

Do you have him explicitly stating he no longer believes these sectors should be nationalized. Do provide a link.

And, of course, saying billionaires should not exist is very capitalistic, right??? Noting socialistic about that one bit.

Sanders says he is a socialist. Sanders openly supports nationalizing massive sectors of the economy. Why should I treat Sanders own words about what he backs as lies but trust you that he is so much more moderate. Sanders supporters are as blind to his asinine ideas as Trump supporters are of Trump's... well, Trumps everything.

 

[g5000]

I've reached this decision after discussing the issue with several people.

For the first time in history, the United States will not have a Presidential debate in either party.

Now I realize the GOP has one without Trump but Trump is like the incumbent Biden, who is untouchable.

And with the legal troubles looming over Trump during the time to debate Biden, will Trump decline based on not wanting to talk about his cases before trial? So it may be that we won't get those debates either.

I've discussed the issue with a few democrats and republicans and the consensus is the same, they don't care. None of them care.

However, according to polls well than half the majority in each party don't want to see another Biden/Trump match up, which is unavoidable now.

The party system is pure poison. All that motivates people to vote now is how their cult party tells them to vote, even though it is not really what they want.

Imagine people having to listen to a candidate talk and assess them by themselves, without their party telling them to discard them because of their particular party they are affiliated with.

People's brains would implode!!

We get the politicians we deserve.

If you want to know who to blame for the mess we are in, look in the mirror.

 

[FA_Q2]

The Democrats are ready, willing and able to debate next Fall under the auspices of the CPD which has both democrats and republicans on it.

The GOP is deciding not to debate (as of this time).

I’m pretty sure there will be a debate though. The GOP will have its debate in July of 2024 next year. Whomever is the nominee will have at their disposal 3 debates--4 hours of free air time where every news channel will be showing them speaking. There isn’t a candidate alive who is going to turn that down. If they do turn it down...the republican you’re going to vote for is truly spineless and an anvil for the GOP establishment.

Still want to vote for him? Of course you do. You, also, are truly spineless.

I don't think Trump is going to debate under any circumstances. He knows he cant manage it and he needs no 'free airtime.' He has an uncanny ability to conjure up free air time whenever he wants at any time. Particularly for the general, the last debates with Biden were a disaster for him.

Though, if he is not the nominee, it is almost certain there will be debates in the general.