Three (R) senators holding YOU hostage

[wjmacguffin]

Introducing a proposal in the Senate holds nothing hostage. Unless it is voted on by both houses of congress, and signed by the president, it is just an idea.

Agreed, but it's still an attempt to screw over Obama at the expense of the American citizen.

Have you ever heard of a guy named Harry Reid?

Yes. What does Harry Reid have to do with these senators and their pipeline proposal? I'm assuming you're playing a straw man, suggesting that Harry Reid did some bad thing as if that explains, justifies, or is even related to the subject at hand. Care to elaborate?

 

[VaYank5150]

The supply of world oil isn't meeting demand, so oil producers will sell their oil to who is sucking it down faster. Our slowing economy isn't the equal demand for oil like china +India, the world's most populated countries.

When the US economy picks up and demand increases, the key is the oil staying here or else the cost of gas in the US will climb more.

I'm sorry. I don't think you answered my question....

I can answer that, and don't worry, most left-wing political hacks ask the same thing over and over again anyway. So, you're not alone in your ignorance.

You're absolutely right, we DO export 30% of some of the refined products to other countries. Here's a little clue for you. There are zones in the United States where products from one zone CANNOT get to the other zones without being either 1. trucked at a very great expense OR 2. shipped through the panama canal at an even greater expense. It is VERY COMMON to have a shortage of one type in say California and have a glut of the same material in say Kansas. However, that also does not take into account that the gasoline used in Kansas CANNOT be used in California.

There IS NOT and there NEVER HAS BEEN a pipeline that ships crude oil east or west over the Rocky Mountains. Likewise the Sierra's. Therefore, oil that is pumped out of the ground in say west Texas, goes via pipeline to the refineries on the gulf. MOST of the active and reopenned wells in the United States are now in the central plains (North Dakota, west Texas, Pennsylvania). The oil goes either straight to the refineries on the gulf OR is stored for a short period of time in the storage facility at Cushing, OK. BUT, Cushing only stores one million barrels when it's full.

Once refined, there are methods of getting that produce to the plains and to the eastern half of the country (older pipelines BEFORE the tree hugger craze). BUT, if you want a California refinery to get crude, you've got to either load it onto an oil tanker OR you've got to truck it. Imagine the cost that will add to the price. Additionally, everyone KNOWS that California, Oregon and Washington does NOT burn the same blend of fuel that other states do. Being 'green' they've decided they want to demand refineries to provide them their own blend. IF you're a refinery on the coast, thats a no win situation, because if you can't ship it via the canal, then you're stuck with gasoline that no one else wants.

Since a majority of the crude now goes to the gulf, it is refined there. Thanks to all of you tree huggers, pipelines carrying refined products are minimal, IF the product once refined can even use a pipeline. Add to the mix treaties and other 'aid' that is agreed to by Washington and you have a situation where a glut of one product on the gulf coast cannot be used to solve a scarcity on another coast.

We get a lot of our crude from Canada, Mexico and the Middle East. When that crude hits the refineries, storage is limited. And lets remember, this is a BUSINESS. If you buy a barrel of oil for $100 and you refine it into gasoline, you're going to have to store it until it's needed. If demand decreases because of the price, how long you going to store it until you want it sold and used? You want to store it the least amount of time that you have to, so you sell it to the highest bidder. If that bidder is Israel, Britain, or the European Union, you don't really care.

I assure you that if gasoline was $2.50 a gallon, exports would drop and consumption would increase. It's something you left-wingers don't really understand... supply and demand.

Thank you very much for your long winded explanation of what everyone already understood. NOW, I am still waiting for someone to provide PROOF of the poster's claim that lack of drilling in the gulf shortly after the BP disaster has increased gas prices in the USA. I'll wait, professor.

 

[Syphon]

The supply of world oil isn't meeting demand, so oil producers will sell their oil to who is sucking it down faster. Our slowing economy isn't the equal demand for oil like china +India, the world's most populated countries.

When the US economy picks up and demand increases, the key is the oil staying here or else the cost of gas in the US will climb more.

I'm sorry. I don't think you answered my question....

I can answer that, and don't worry, most left-wing political hacks ask the same thing over and over again anyway. So, you're not alone in your ignorance.

You're absolutely right, we DO export 30% of some of the refined products to other countries. Here's a little clue for you. There are zones in the United States where products from one zone CANNOT get to the other zones without being either 1. trucked at a very great expense OR 2. shipped through the panama canal at an even greater expense. It is VERY COMMON to have a shortage of one type in say California and have a glut of the same material in say Kansas. However, that also does not take into account that the gasoline used in Kansas CANNOT be used in California.

There IS NOT and there NEVER HAS BEEN a pipeline that ships crude oil east or west over the Rocky Mountains. Likewise the Sierra's. Therefore, oil that is pumped out of the ground in say west Texas, goes via pipeline to the refineries on the gulf. MOST of the active and reopenned wells in the United States are now in the central plains (North Dakota, west Texas, Pennsylvania). The oil goes either straight to the refineries on the gulf OR is stored for a short period of time in the storage facility at Cushing, OK. BUT, Cushing only stores one million barrels when it's full.

Once refined, there are methods of getting that produce to the plains and to the eastern half of the country (older pipelines BEFORE the tree hugger craze). BUT, if you want a California refinery to get crude, you've got to either load it onto an oil tanker OR you've got to truck it. Imagine the cost that will add to the price. Additionally, everyone KNOWS that California, Oregon and Washington does NOT burn the same blend of fuel that other states do. Being 'green' they've decided they want to demand refineries to provide them their own blend. IF you're a refinery on the coast, thats a no win situation, because if you can't ship it via the canal, then you're stuck with gasoline that no one else wants.

Since a majority of the crude now goes to the gulf, it is refined there. Thanks to all of you tree huggers, pipelines carrying refined products are minimal, IF the product once refined can even use a pipeline. Add to the mix treaties and other 'aid' that is agreed to by Washington and you have a situation where a glut of one product on the gulf coast cannot be used to solve a scarcity on another coast.

We get a lot of our crude from Canada, Mexico and the Middle East. When that crude hits the refineries, storage is limited. And lets remember, this is a BUSINESS. If you buy a barrel of oil for $100 and you refine it into gasoline, you're going to have to store it until it's needed. If demand decreases because of the price, how long you going to store it until you want it sold and used? You want to store it the least amount of time that you have to, so you sell it to the highest bidder. If that bidder is Israel, Britain, or the European Union, you don't really care.

I assure you that if gasoline was $2.50 a gallon, exports would drop and consumption would increase. It's something you left-wingers don't really understand... supply and demand.

your failing to take in account global supply and demand. since the price of crude is set on the open market for anyone in the world to buy, simply having the US increase supply does not mean that you will see a drop in price world wide. if the US was a closed system in which everything we produced stayed here in the states and we did not import any oil from any other countries, we could have much tighter control of the pricing. be that as it may, it is not the case. since global demand is projected to increase from now until this summer, speculators are driving the price up in anticipation of higher demand. these speculators do no just look at the demand within a single country, such as the US as reason to do this. they look at India and China and Europe and the US to determine future demand. it there is outlook for increased demand the price rises, if there is outlook for a decreased demand, the prices fall.

what would you like to president to do? unilaterally fix the price of a barrel of oil? that would actually be a socialist / communist idea not a free market idea. if you right wingers are truly free market then you would understand that the president can not unilaterally change oil prices.

so youre next argument is probably, well he's not allowing drilling in the gulf and such. that is also a lie.

Deepwater oil drilling returns to Gulf and spreads | | The Bulletin
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/05/b...rilling-accelerates-as-bp-disaster-fades.html
Drilling in Gulf of Mexico Rebounds After Spill - WSJ.com

here are 3 separate source which debunk that line of thinking. actual production from 1 year ago is down approx 13.5% as the Oil companies ramp back after the expiration of the oct drilling moratorium due to the BP oil spill. but simply saying he is not allowing drilling the gulf is simply not true.


Last December, the Obama administration held its first offshore auction since the BP spill, granting leases for more than 20 million acres of federal waters — bigger than West Virginia. The leases are worth $330 million to the federal government and have the potential to produce 400 million barrels of oil.
BP successfully bid for 11 of the 191 available drilling blocks. Environmentalists challenged the auction of exploration rights, so far unsuccessfully, which precedes applications and approvals for actual drilling permits.
By the Obama administration’s accounting, 61 drilling permits for wells in more than 500 feet of water were granted in the 12 months ending Feb. 27, only six fewer than were permitted in the same period in 2009 and 2010 before the BP explosion.

so what else would you like him to do? 20 million acres is no small section of the earth. that is approx 31,250 square miles of new drilling area in addition to 38,317,322 acres or 59,870 square miles they currently lease.

 

[Intense]

Agreed, but it's still an attempt to screw over Obama at the expense of the American citizen.

No it's an attempt to prevent using oil stored for national emergencies from being used as a substitute for a sane energy policy.

And BTW... I opposed it when Bush did it as well for the exact same reason.

Actually, I stand corrected. In my opinion, it's an attempt to screw over Obama. There's no real proof to back up my assertion.

But what about Obama's energy policy is wrong? I'm fairly ignorant on his energy policy so I'm curious to see what's wrong with it.

How much Stimulus Money has gone into bringing Coal Plants into compliance with New EPA Standards? Why? Why not?

 

[WillowTree]

Agreed, but it's still an attempt to screw over Obama at the expense of the American citizen.

No it's an attempt to prevent using oil stored for national emergencies from being used as a substitute for a sane energy policy.

And BTW... I opposed it when Bush did it as well for the exact same reason.

Actually, I stand corrected. In my opinion, it's an attempt to screw over Obama. There's no real proof to back up my assertion.

But what about Obama's energy policy is wrong? I'm fairly ignorant on his energy policy so I'm curious to see what's wrong with it.

You're the first liberal I've met who admits to being ignorant. Kudos to ewe.

 

[Decepticon]

Senators David Vitter (R-LA), John Hoevan (R-ND), and Richard Lugar (R-IN) introduced the Strategic Petroleum Supplies Act, S. 2100

Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

“the Administration shall not authorize a sale of petroleum products from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve… until the date on which all permits necessary … for the Keystone XL pipeline project application filed on September 19, 2008 (including amendments) have been issued.”

So, they're tying Obama's hands in case oil prices spike. They are saying that if Iran causes instability in the price of oil, Obama won't be able to do anything about it unless they get the pipeline first.

Yet another FINE example of how EXPENDABLE the money in YOUR wallet is to RepubliCONZ, as long as they get to stick it to ol Barry and reward their patrons, who cares what happens to American families?

Schumer is holding NY Hostage, and has been for too long. What is more important to our future, is why Obama blocked the Pipe-Line. Big fail. The Strategic Reserve is a drop in the bucket. Why is Obama destroying Infrastructure? Where is he on Natural Gas Technology? Clean Coal? Stop with the crap about "There Is No Clean Coal", stop playing George Orwell. Stop making us Vulnerable. Stop lying about the damage this Administration is doing.

You think the FUTURE of this country is fossil fuels?

The future of this country is FUSION power....geothermal and solar.

Fossil fuels get 5 TIMES THE SUBSIDIES that renewables get. Is that planning for the future?



Renewable energy companies are approaching the point where they can generate electricity at a price competitive with fossil-fuels without subsidies, the biggest wind and solar manufacturers said.
Suntech Power Holdings Co. Chief Executive Officer Zhengrong Shi said solar will reach parity with fossil fuels on electric grids by 2015. Vestas Wind systems A/S expects its turbines to compete without incentives “in the coming years,” said Peter Brun, head of governmental relations.
Parts of a Vestas Wind Systems A/S turbine wait to be assembled at the Sacramento Municipal Utility District Wind Power Plant in Rio Vista, California, on Nov. 17, 2011. Vestas, the world’s biggest maker of turbines, said earlier this month it would reduce its workforce if lawmakers don't extend a tax credit for wind energy. Photo: Ken James/Bloomberg
“Wind in some cases already is, or can in coming years, be fully cost-competitive with fossil fuels,” Brun said yesterday by e-mail from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. “Fossil-fuel prices will continue to rise, and that increases the competitiveness of new technologies. We are preparing the whole industry for getting off the subsidy-need.”
Renewables From Vestas to Suntech Plan Profit Without Subsidy - Bloomberg



Fossil fuels are the past. Might as well invest in buggy whips.

 

[Syphon]

No it's an attempt to prevent using oil stored for national emergencies from being used as a substitute for a sane energy policy.

And BTW... I opposed it when Bush did it as well for the exact same reason.

Actually, I stand corrected. In my opinion, it's an attempt to screw over Obama. There's no real proof to back up my assertion.

But what about Obama's energy policy is wrong? I'm fairly ignorant on his energy policy so I'm curious to see what's wrong with it.

How much Stimulus Money has gone into bringing Coal Plants into compliance with New EPA Standards? Why? Why not?

why do coal plants need the government to pay them not to pollute as much?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Senators David Vitter (R-LA), John Hoevan (R-ND), and Richard Lugar (R-IN) introduced the Strategic Petroleum Supplies Act, S. 2100

Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

“the Administration shall not authorize a sale of petroleum products from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve… until the date on which all permits necessary … for the Keystone XL pipeline project application filed on September 19, 2008 (including amendments) have been issued.”

So, they're tying Obama's hands in case oil prices spike. They are saying that if Iran causes instability in the price of oil, Obama won't be able to do anything about it unless they get the pipeline first.

Yet another FINE example of how EXPENDABLE the money in YOUR wallet is to RepubliCONZ, as long as they get to stick it to ol Barry and reward their patrons, who cares what happens to American families?

Wait just a minute! Libs/progessives have been telling us that obama has no control over how high fuel prices are going. How can Congress impede his ability to solve the problem if he has no control over the situation to begin with?

 

[KissMy]

The emergency oil reserve is for an EMERGENCY, not to cover Obamination's ass when he's helped drive up oil prices by preventing drilling in the Gulf, Keystone, etc.

An emergency is a World War and huge natural disasters that affect the US economy, not economic policies by Democrats that drive up oil prices on purpose.

We are STILL selling 30% of the oil refined in the United States overseas. Please explain how preventing drilling drove up oil prices in the United States?

Because we are still importing the majority of the oil we use. Refining petroleum for other countries creates jobs here.

 

[Syphon]

The emergency oil reserve is for an EMERGENCY, not to cover Obamination's ass when he's helped drive up oil prices by preventing drilling in the Gulf, Keystone, etc.

An emergency is a World War and huge natural disasters that affect the US economy, not economic policies by Democrats that drive up oil prices on purpose.

We are STILL selling 30% of the oil refined in the United States overseas. Please explain how preventing drilling drove up oil prices in the United States?

Because we are still importing the majority of the oil we use. Refining petroleum for other countries creates jobs here.

that makes no sense. the same jobs would still exist if they refined petroleum products for use domestically.

 

[wjmacguffin]

How much Stimulus Money has gone into bringing Coal Plants into compliance with New EPA Standards? Why? Why not?

My guess is zero money because ARRA went out in 2009 while the new compliance regulations came out in 2011.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Wait just a minute! Libs/progessives have been telling us that obama has no control over how high fuel prices are going. How can Congress impede his ability to solve the problem if he has no control over the situation to begin with?

I don't think releasing oil from the strategic reserve will have any significant impact on gas prices, as the supply is not the problem. It's inflated demand from speculation.

However, the core point remains true: It appears that these GOP senators are trying to hurt Obama politically.

 

[whitehall]

It's hard to understand the left sometimes. They claim Obama is the savior and yet they whine about three republicans in a democrat controlled senate "tying his hands". Does the left just parrot Huffington every day or do they actually think about issues.

 

[zeke]

It is hard to understand the right.

For instance. Lets say Isreal bombs Iran and a full scale war erupts. Straights of Hormuz is blocked. No oil flowing from there. A oil futures speculator's wet dream.

We got us an emergency in the form of much less oil supply. Obama goes to open the reserve, but can't. Cause three asshole senators want payback to their oil buddies before they will agree to let the American people have their oil. The oil we bought and are paying for. Not them Senators.

It's hostage time again in America. Courtesy the Rethug party.

 

[gallantwarrior]

And no one here doesn't think that an announcement of a release of the NPR holdings will not result in wild speculation? Just consider who would profit most from such speculation? You would follow the money right back into the pockets of obama's favorite and best contributors.

 

[Intense]

Senators David Vitter (R-LA), John Hoevan (R-ND), and Richard Lugar (R-IN) introduced the Strategic Petroleum Supplies Act, S. 2100

Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

“the Administration shall not authorize a sale of petroleum products from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve… until the date on which all permits necessary … for the Keystone XL pipeline project application filed on September 19, 2008 (including amendments) have been issued.”

So, they're tying Obama's hands in case oil prices spike. They are saying that if Iran causes instability in the price of oil, Obama won't be able to do anything about it unless they get the pipeline first.

Yet another FINE example of how EXPENDABLE the money in YOUR wallet is to RepubliCONZ, as long as they get to stick it to ol Barry and reward their patrons, who cares what happens to American families?

Schumer is holding NY Hostage, and has been for too long. What is more important to our future, is why Obama blocked the Pipe-Line. Big fail. The Strategic Reserve is a drop in the bucket. Why is Obama destroying Infrastructure? Where is he on Natural Gas Technology? Clean Coal? Stop with the crap about "There Is No Clean Coal", stop playing George Orwell. Stop making us Vulnerable. Stop lying about the damage this Administration is doing.

You think the FUTURE of this country is fossil fuels?

The future of this country is FUSION power....geothermal and solar.

Fossil fuels get 5 TIMES THE SUBSIDIES that renewables get. Is that planning for the future?



Renewable energy companies are approaching the point where they can generate electricity at a price competitive with fossil-fuels without subsidies, the biggest wind and solar manufacturers said.
Suntech Power Holdings Co. Chief Executive Officer Zhengrong Shi said solar will reach parity with fossil fuels on electric grids by 2015. Vestas Wind systems A/S expects its turbines to compete without incentives “in the coming years,” said Peter Brun, head of governmental relations.
Parts of a Vestas Wind Systems A/S turbine wait to be assembled at the Sacramento Municipal Utility District Wind Power Plant in Rio Vista, California, on Nov. 17, 2011. Vestas, the world’s biggest maker of turbines, said earlier this month it would reduce its workforce if lawmakers don't extend a tax credit for wind energy. Photo: Ken James/Bloomberg
“Wind in some cases already is, or can in coming years, be fully cost-competitive with fossil fuels,” Brun said yesterday by e-mail from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. “Fossil-fuel prices will continue to rise, and that increases the competitiveness of new technologies. We are preparing the whole industry for getting off the subsidy-need.”
Renewables From Vestas to Suntech Plan Profit Without Subsidy - Bloomberg



Fossil fuels are the past. Might as well invest in buggy whips.

Natural Gas is in the plan for the foreseeable future, so would be clean Coal, were it not being sand bagged. Ever consider the effect of Geo-Thermal on Seismic Activity? Do you understand the process, or processes depending on where the drilling is done? Yeah, there is promise there, also need for caution. Hydraulic Fracturing is a concern both in oil and geothermal. Let's separate the Sales Pitches for all of the Technologies from Reality.

 

[VaYank5150]

The emergency oil reserve is for an EMERGENCY, not to cover Obamination's ass when he's helped drive up oil prices by preventing drilling in the Gulf, Keystone, etc.

An emergency is a World War and huge natural disasters that affect the US economy, not economic policies by Democrats that drive up oil prices on purpose.

We are STILL selling 30% of the oil refined in the United States overseas. Please explain how preventing drilling drove up oil prices in the United States?

Because we are still importing the majority of the oil we use. Refining petroleum for other countries creates jobs here.

So, IF we stopped exporting refined oil to other countries, that would increase our supply domestically, and based on your logic lower gas prices here, right? So, why are we exporting again?

 

[Intense]

It is hard to understand the right.

For instance. Lets say Isreal bombs Iran and a full scale war erupts. Straights of Hormuz is blocked. No oil flowing from there. A oil futures speculator's wet dream.

We got us an emergency in the form of much less oil supply. Obama goes to open the reserve, but can't. Cause three asshole senators want payback to their oil buddies before they will agree to let the American people have their oil. The oil we bought and are paying for. Not them Senators.

It's hostage time again in America. Courtesy the Rethug party.

Bullshit. The best way to insure the Straits of Hormuz is a key factor is to construct pipelines that bypass it. In National Emergency, extreme steps will be taken to insure best use of what is available here, stop with the Fear Mongering. Keystone is critical to insuring better management of what we have available here. You really need to blindfold yourself to not see the advantages of stepped up, transport, storage, and refining capacity here. You act like us being the World leader in Fuel Sales is a bad thing. How about taking a break from the Kool-Aid.

 

[Intense]

We are STILL selling 30% of the oil refined in the United States overseas. Please explain how preventing drilling drove up oil prices in the United States?

Because we are still importing the majority of the oil we use. Refining petroleum for other countries creates jobs here.

So, IF we stopped exporting refined oil to other countries, that would increase our supply domestically, and based on your logic lower gas prices here, right? So, why are we exporting again?

Interest on the Debt? Working with Allies? Easing the pain?

Tell me, how much fuel tax is based on the Dollar, and not the Gallon or BTU??? Why is that?

 

[VaYank5150]

Because we are still importing the majority of the oil we use. Refining petroleum for other countries creates jobs here.

So, IF we stopped exporting refined oil to other countries, that would increase our supply domestically, and based on your logic lower gas prices here, right? So, why are we exporting again?

Interest on the Debt? Working with Allies? Easing the pain?

Tell me, how much fuel tax is based on the Dollar, and not the Gallon or BTU??? Why is that?

So, in other words, this really isn't about lowering domestic gasoline prices at all? I couldve sworn the OP was attempting to throw Obama under the bus for that.....