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Three Interpretations of Adam and Eve

emilynghiem

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I used the more traditional interpretation to explain to a student at a Catholic college who was not brought up Christian. She could not follow how professors would teach from the Bible as if this is well established. To her it was a foreign framework. For Adam and Eve, I explained the relationship with God similar to her father teaching the children to obey. It is for our own safety and well being. As we grow to maturity, we learn to make decisions by free will and reason. So the NT is the later mature stage, after Jesus, but before that, we had people trying to follow God and laws by blind obedience to authority.

Below are two more ways that society has changed politically and economically, which Adam and Eve can also represent as a "falling out" and corruption of perfect order, where these corruptions have caused human bondage to oppressive conditions.



================

Adam and Eve represent the lineage of generations under Mosaic Law and self awareness of will and ego. When we become aware of our will vs. others, and this gets corrupted by fear and selfishness, that is where we lose our innocence and start rebelling rejecting and fighting for control. It is symbolic on multiple levels.

The Daughters of the Earth who coupled with the descendants represent the matriarchal goddess tribes that were there before Adam and Eve started the patriarchal lineage. The purpose of Christ is to restore equal relations between tribes so we fulfill the harmony between humanity on Earth and God's universal laws of justice in heaven.

The Bible does not spell out the natural laws of the gentiles specifically either, as found in secular Constitutional laws, Greek ethics etc. But scholars who have studied basic ethics have found the core principles to be consistent with the Bible. So just because it's not mentioned doesn't mean to exclude it. As for prehistoric tribes, there are references in either the Bible or in the Kaballah mythology that refer to pre-Creation beings similar to how Greek myths used archeotype figures to describe the spiritual chaos before there was order. They used Giants and Titans. The Kaballah refers to Lillith before there was Eve, where Lillith is either interpreted as evil and demonic or as the female goddess matriarchal tribes that dominated with earth based religions before the patriarchal lineages of Adamic and Mosaic leadership that became Jewish law where Christianity and Islam followed from.

So this is one of 3 interpretations I've heard for the Garden allegory:

1. One is the stage of childlike innocence blind Faith and obedience to parental or govt type authority before becoming self aware or self governing by free will and reason. Until mature the human conscience will go through phases of rebelling and rejecting to learn by experience right from wrong but eventually reconcile. Not by force of law but by free choice to follow and comply by understanding laws of Justice. So this is the process of people establishing Justice by free will to achieve lasting Peace.



2. The interpretation of male dominant patriarchal order introduced spiritually where Eve is derived from Adam vs. Lillith representing being brought up equally from the dust as Adam was. This is why matriarchal tribes dominated because women knew who their daughters were and could keep power and property passed down that way. But men did not know who their children and heirs were until marriage laws were instigated to maintain patriarchy to treat women and children as property of the estate under primogeniture and feudal lord systems. This was supposed to help balance out the knowledge women had but instead it went too far and demonized Eve as cursed by Satan and Lilith and pagan tribes as demonic to wipe them out in genocides referred to in the Bible as Baal and praying to idols and the queen of heaven. The purpose of the sacrifice of Christ was to break this cycle of sin and karma to stop this retribution war and genocide in the OT and bring reconciliation restoration and maturity in the NT where male and female Jew and Gentile are made one in harmony and balance as originally destined to establish paradise again or heaven on Earth as it was when we were innocent except now we have full knowledge free choice and informed consent so we can sustain justice and peace by knowing the truth that sets us free from sin strife and suffering.



3. The last interpretation was that biting into the apple wasn't just self awareness but specifically tied to the eating and value of meat. This introduced disparity by elevating men above women. The men were worshipped and prayed for as hunters and eventually paid more than gatherers of fruits and vegetables that were mainly the women at home and manual workers in the fields. While the ownership and management class rose in power and kept that monopoly referred to as class privilege or white privilege since the wealthy who stayed indoors became associated with lighter skin as aristocratic and the darker skin in every culture became associated with manual and outdoor field labor of the working classes , as well as the darker skin that was valued more in American slavery to distinguish slaves from free people. So Adam Eve and the Garden also has been interpreted to symbolize class disparity by economic development of ownership class vs working class that doesn't own its own labor but remain subjugate to the ruling class in charge because of monetary wealth and knowledge of laws in that sense.

Again Jesus as God's Perfect Authority of Universal / Equal Justice represents liberation from enslavement to the selfish laws of man corrupted by greed for power or antichrist. And to restore God's universal laws of equal justice and good faith relations based on truth to bring healing corrections and peace. That is a more secular external historic interpretation than the symbolic spiritual interpretation of male female relations and balance.

But I find all 3 to be key to understanding the full nature of human conflict and condition past present and future.
 

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So now Catholics are not Christians?
 
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emilynghiem

emilynghiem

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So now Catholics are not Christians?
??? Where are you getting that?

The student had Buddhist parents and didn't understand the Catholic teachers referencing the Bible that student was never taught.

I was helping the student apply the framework in the Bible to real world relations in order to follow the progression.

What do you mean that any of the OP is saying Catholics are not Christian?

Moonglow do you have any insights
or responses to the three interpretations of
1. Obedience to Authority
2. Matriarchal vs Patriarchal lineages or hierarchy in society
3. Economic class and valuing managers/owners over workers/renters
 

progressive hunter

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So now Catholics are not Christians?
??? Where are you getting that?

The student had Buddhist parents and didn't understand the Catholic teachers referencing the Bible that student was never taught.

I was helping the student apply the framework in the Bible to real world relations in order to follow the progression.

What do you mean that any of the OP is saying Catholics are not Christian?

Moonglow do you have any insights
or responses to the three interpretations of
1. Obedience to Authority
2. Matriarchal vs Patriarchal lineages or hierarchy in society
3. Economic class and valuing managers/owners over workers/renters
dont mind him,, hes just trolling to be first to say something unrelated t the topic,,
 

Moonglow

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So now Catholics are not Christians?
??? Where are you getting that?

The student had Buddhist parents and didn't understand the Catholic teachers referencing the Bible that student was never taught.

I was helping the student apply the framework in the Bible to real world relations in order to follow the progression.

What do you mean that any of the OP is saying Catholics are not Christian?

Moonglow do you have any insights
or responses to the three interpretations of
1. Obedience to Authority
2. Matriarchal vs Patriarchal lineages or hierarchy in society
3. Economic class and valuing managers/owners over workers/renters
The only response to the three parallels of scripture is that every society has done it to their own interpretation through the history of humans..it is nothing new to use a religion to control the masses. It doesn't matter if there is truth or knowledge because it is rhetorical propaganda.
 

progressive hunter

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So now Catholics are not Christians?
??? Where are you getting that?

The student had Buddhist parents and didn't understand the Catholic teachers referencing the Bible that student was never taught.

I was helping the student apply the framework in the Bible to real world relations in order to follow the progression.

What do you mean that any of the OP is saying Catholics are not Christian?

Moonglow do you have any insights
or responses to the three interpretations of
1. Obedience to Authority
2. Matriarchal vs Patriarchal lineages or hierarchy in society
3. Economic class and valuing managers/owners over workers/renters
The only response to the three parallels of scripture is that every society has done it to their own interpretation through the history of humans..it is nothing new to use a religion to control the masses. It doesn't matter if there is truth or knowledge because it is rhetorical propaganda.
if this is the only response then why did you make the stupid one before,,,
 
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emilynghiem

emilynghiem

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Whatever became of the talking snakes?
Dear Mr Clean
The best interpretation of the snake symbolism ties in with the matriarchal/patriarchal conversion.

Books like "When God Was A Woman" by Merlin Stone interpret this as taking the serpent symbols from goddess worship that represented natural knowledge,
and demonizing this knowledge of natural laws to be Satanic.

Yes and No.

The neutral natural laws are true and apply to everyone universally. Even the caduceus symbol for medicine has the snakes on it. Natural health and healing is good for everyone.

The demonic/satanic part is any dark force spiritism using occult energy.
The type of witchcraft, voodoo, santeria rituals, spells and curses are negative and not healthy to engage in. These practices are dangerous to mix with light lifegiving energy in positive Christian prayers.

The serpents are also common manifestations of demonic spirits seen during exorcisms.

In general these represent evil abuses of knowledge to compete for control by fear and negative motivations.

I use snakes as analogies for why Christians are taught to stay away from references to witches, wizardry, magic and Halloween. Any references to "spiritism" is rejected by fundamental Christians as opening a door to rebellion against God.

I compare this to people who know harmless snakes from venomous ones.
They have no issue dealing with snakes which come naturally to them.

If you don't know the difference and don't care to learn, STAY AWAY.

It isn't worth the risk playing with snakes if you don't know the difference.

That is why some people reject anything Pagan, earth based, or referring to matriarchal/goddess culture, etc.

It is like being super cautious, like avoiding all snakes, just in case it is one of the dangerous types....
 
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emilynghiem

emilynghiem

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So now Catholics are not Christians?
??? Where are you getting that?

The student had Buddhist parents and didn't understand the Catholic teachers referencing the Bible that student was never taught.

I was helping the student apply the framework in the Bible to real world relations in order to follow the progression.

What do you mean that any of the OP is saying Catholics are not Christian?

Moonglow do you have any insights
or responses to the three interpretations of
1. Obedience to Authority
2. Matriarchal vs Patriarchal lineages or hierarchy in society
3. Economic class and valuing managers/owners over workers/renters
The only response to the three parallels of scripture is that every society has done it to their own interpretation through the history of humans..it is nothing new to use a religion to control the masses. It doesn't matter if there is truth or knowledge because it is rhetorical propaganda.
Okay Moonglow thanks for your wise clarification.

Based on your approach to what is causing corruption, it seems to be a mix of 1 and 2

1. First the Catholic church has a history of teaching dependence on their authority instead of connecting directly with God through Christ (not church priests or middleman figures) as the Lutheran/Protestant and Baptists teach direct embodiment and responsibility for laws ourselves where ppl are the church body.

2. You also indirectly bring up the patriarchal dominance over matriarchal.

#1 also affects political divides:
Liberals teach dependence on Govt.
Conservatives teach independence by empowering people to enforce Constitutional laws directly ourselves where people become the govt.

Which approach do you support Moonglow?
 

Votto

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I used the more traditional interpretation to explain to a student at a Catholic college who was not brought up Christian. She could not follow how professors would teach from the Bible as if this is well established. To her it was a foreign framework. For Adam and Eve, I explained the relationship with God similar to her father teaching the children to obey. It is for our own safety and well being. As we grow to maturity, we learn to make decisions by free will and reason. So the NT is the later mature stage, after Jesus, but before that, we had people trying to follow God and laws by blind obedience to authority.

Below are two more ways that society has changed politically and economically, which Adam and Eve can also represent as a "falling out" and corruption of perfect order, where these corruptions have caused human bondage to oppressive conditions.



================

Adam and Eve represent the lineage of generations under Mosaic Law and self awareness of will and ego. When we become aware of our will vs. others, and this gets corrupted by fear and selfishness, that is where we lose our innocence and start rebelling rejecting and fighting for control. It is symbolic on multiple levels.

The Daughters of the Earth who coupled with the descendants represent the matriarchal goddess tribes that were there before Adam and Eve started the patriarchal lineage. The purpose of Christ is to restore equal relations between tribes so we fulfill the harmony between humanity on Earth and God's universal laws of justice in heaven.

The Bible does not spell out the natural laws of the gentiles specifically either, as found in secular Constitutional laws, Greek ethics etc. But scholars who have studied basic ethics have found the core principles to be consistent with the Bible. So just because it's not mentioned doesn't mean to exclude it. As for prehistoric tribes, there are references in either the Bible or in the Kaballah mythology that refer to pre-Creation beings similar to how Greek myths used archeotype figures to describe the spiritual chaos before there was order. They used Giants and Titans. The Kaballah refers to Lillith before there was Eve, where Lillith is either interpreted as evil and demonic or as the female goddess matriarchal tribes that dominated with earth based religions before the patriarchal lineages of Adamic and Mosaic leadership that became Jewish law where Christianity and Islam followed from.

So this is one of 3 interpretations I've heard for the Garden allegory:

1. One is the stage of childlike innocence blind Faith and obedience to parental or govt type authority before becoming self aware or self governing by free will and reason. Until mature the human conscience will go through phases of rebelling and rejecting to learn by experience right from wrong but eventually reconcile. Not by force of law but by free choice to follow and comply by understanding laws of Justice. So this is the process of people establishing Justice by free will to achieve lasting Peace.



2. The interpretation of male dominant patriarchal order introduced spiritually where Eve is derived from Adam vs. Lillith representing being brought up equally from the dust as Adam was. This is why matriarchal tribes dominated because women knew who their daughters were and could keep power and property passed down that way. But men did not know who their children and heirs were until marriage laws were instigated to maintain patriarchy to treat women and children as property of the estate under primogeniture and feudal lord systems. This was supposed to help balance out the knowledge women had but instead it went too far and demonized Eve as cursed by Satan and Lilith and pagan tribes as demonic to wipe them out in genocides referred to in the Bible as Baal and praying to idols and the queen of heaven. The purpose of the sacrifice of Christ was to break this cycle of sin and karma to stop this retribution war and genocide in the OT and bring reconciliation restoration and maturity in the NT where male and female Jew and Gentile are made one in harmony and balance as originally destined to establish paradise again or heaven on Earth as it was when we were innocent except now we have full knowledge free choice and informed consent so we can sustain justice and peace by knowing the truth that sets us free from sin strife and suffering.



3. The last interpretation was that biting into the apple wasn't just self awareness but specifically tied to the eating and value of meat. This introduced disparity by elevating men above women. The men were worshipped and prayed for as hunters and eventually paid more than gatherers of fruits and vegetables that were mainly the women at home and manual workers in the fields. While the ownership and management class rose in power and kept that monopoly referred to as class privilege or white privilege since the wealthy who stayed indoors became associated with lighter skin as aristocratic and the darker skin in every culture became associated with manual and outdoor field labor of the working classes , as well as the darker skin that was valued more in American slavery to distinguish slaves from free people. So Adam Eve and the Garden also has been interpreted to symbolize class disparity by economic development of ownership class vs working class that doesn't own its own labor but remain subjugate to the ruling class in charge because of monetary wealth and knowledge of laws in that sense.

Again Jesus as God's Perfect Authority of Universal / Equal Justice represents liberation from enslavement to the selfish laws of man corrupted by greed for power or antichrist. And to restore God's universal laws of equal justice and good faith relations based on truth to bring healing corrections and peace. That is a more secular external historic interpretation than the symbolic spiritual interpretation of male female relations and balance.

But I find all 3 to be key to understanding the full nature of human conflict and condition past present and future.
Wait........wut?

Notice the tree God told them not to eat from, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Why do you think that is?

Looking at the world today, knowledge, specifically scientific knowledge, is what is destroying us. WMD's, bioengineered Pandemic virus', and possibly carbon emissions, depending on your views of such things, etc.

The message from the Garden is, knowledge without wisdom brings death and judging on how science has the world on the verge of self destruction, who can argue?

Don't make it harder than it has to be.

But the "smart" elites will persist in snubbing their nose at the stupid common folk on how they are destroying the planet, but doing such things as wanting to heat their home and fuel their SUV's, or not wanting to get a vaccine, etc.

Funny thing, apes in the wild have no chance of destroying the planet but highly intelligent apes who study science with no wisdom do.
 
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Flash

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The Book of Genesis is neither a history or science book. It is a book about the relationship between Man and God.

God made Man in His own image, meaning Free Will. The story of Adam and Even having to leave the Garden of Eden is nothing more than describing the consequences of having Free Will.
 

Winston

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Whatever became of the talking snakes?
Dear Mr Clean
The best interpretation of the snake symbolism ties in with the matriarchal/patriarchal conversion.

Books like "When God Was A Woman" by Merlin Stone interpret this as taking the serpent symbols from goddess worship that represented natural knowledge,
and demonizing this knowledge of natural laws to be Satanic.

Yes and No.

The neutral natural laws are true and apply to everyone universally. Even the caduceus symbol for medicine has the snakes on it. Natural health and healing is good for everyone.

The demonic/satanic part is any dark force spiritism using occult energy.
The type of witchcraft, voodoo, santeria rituals, spells and curses are negative and not healthy to engage in. These practices are dangerous to mix with light lifegiving energy in positive Christian prayers.

The serpents are also common manifestations of demonic spirits seen during exorcisms.

In general these represent evil abuses of knowledge to compete for control by fear and negative motivations.

I use snakes as analogies for why Christians are taught to stay away from references to witches, wizardry, magic and Halloween. Any references to "spiritism" is rejected by fundamental Christians as opening a door to rebellion against God.

I compare this to people who know harmless snakes from venomous ones.
They have no issue dealing with snakes which come naturally to them.

If you don't know the difference and don't care to learn, STAY AWAY.

It isn't worth the risk playing with snakes if you don't know the difference.

That is why some people reject anything Pagan, earth based, or referring to matriarchal/goddess culture, etc.

It is like being super cautious, like avoiding all snakes, just in case it is one of the dangerous types....
Let us get something clear. Adam committed the greater sin. This bullshit about the punishment of Eve, the demonization of witchcraft, and the idea that women should be servants to their husbands is just, well bullshit perpetuated by the early church in order for the male pastors to retain their dominance. The condemnation of witches was simply a land grab by the early church. It is no coincidence that women were forbidden from owning land in the Western world until very recently. While Muslim women, so often described as mistreated, have been able to own land for more than a thousand years.

But back to the greater sin. Eve was tempted by Satan himself, the most beautiful of the angels, and quite accomplished at the art of deceit. Adam, he was tempted by a mere woman. How can anyone argue that Eve's sin was greater. Now I did not come up with this argument. The credit goes to Anne Hutchinson, from 1638.
 
OP
emilynghiem

emilynghiem

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I used the more traditional interpretation to explain to a student at a Catholic college who was not brought up Christian. She could not follow how professors would teach from the Bible as if this is well established. To her it was a foreign framework. For Adam and Eve, I explained the relationship with God similar to her father teaching the children to obey. It is for our own safety and well being. As we grow to maturity, we learn to make decisions by free will and reason. So the NT is the later mature stage, after Jesus, but before that, we had people trying to follow God and laws by blind obedience to authority.

Below are two more ways that society has changed politically and economically, which Adam and Eve can also represent as a "falling out" and corruption of perfect order, where these corruptions have caused human bondage to oppressive conditions.



================

Adam and Eve represent the lineage of generations under Mosaic Law and self awareness of will and ego. When we become aware of our will vs. others, and this gets corrupted by fear and selfishness, that is where we lose our innocence and start rebelling rejecting and fighting for control. It is symbolic on multiple levels.

The Daughters of the Earth who coupled with the descendants represent the matriarchal goddess tribes that were there before Adam and Eve started the patriarchal lineage. The purpose of Christ is to restore equal relations between tribes so we fulfill the harmony between humanity on Earth and God's universal laws of justice in heaven.

The Bible does not spell out the natural laws of the gentiles specifically either, as found in secular Constitutional laws, Greek ethics etc. But scholars who have studied basic ethics have found the core principles to be consistent with the Bible. So just because it's not mentioned doesn't mean to exclude it. As for prehistoric tribes, there are references in either the Bible or in the Kaballah mythology that refer to pre-Creation beings similar to how Greek myths used archeotype figures to describe the spiritual chaos before there was order. They used Giants and Titans. The Kaballah refers to Lillith before there was Eve, where Lillith is either interpreted as evil and demonic or as the female goddess matriarchal tribes that dominated with earth based religions before the patriarchal lineages of Adamic and Mosaic leadership that became Jewish law where Christianity and Islam followed from.

So this is one of 3 interpretations I've heard for the Garden allegory:

1. One is the stage of childlike innocence blind Faith and obedience to parental or govt type authority before becoming self aware or self governing by free will and reason. Until mature the human conscience will go through phases of rebelling and rejecting to learn by experience right from wrong but eventually reconcile. Not by force of law but by free choice to follow and comply by understanding laws of Justice. So this is the process of people establishing Justice by free will to achieve lasting Peace.



2. The interpretation of male dominant patriarchal order introduced spiritually where Eve is derived from Adam vs. Lillith representing being brought up equally from the dust as Adam was. This is why matriarchal tribes dominated because women knew who their daughters were and could keep power and property passed down that way. But men did not know who their children and heirs were until marriage laws were instigated to maintain patriarchy to treat women and children as property of the estate under primogeniture and feudal lord systems. This was supposed to help balance out the knowledge women had but instead it went too far and demonized Eve as cursed by Satan and Lilith and pagan tribes as demonic to wipe them out in genocides referred to in the Bible as Baal and praying to idols and the queen of heaven. The purpose of the sacrifice of Christ was to break this cycle of sin and karma to stop this retribution war and genocide in the OT and bring reconciliation restoration and maturity in the NT where male and female Jew and Gentile are made one in harmony and balance as originally destined to establish paradise again or heaven on Earth as it was when we were innocent except now we have full knowledge free choice and informed consent so we can sustain justice and peace by knowing the truth that sets us free from sin strife and suffering.



3. The last interpretation was that biting into the apple wasn't just self awareness but specifically tied to the eating and value of meat. This introduced disparity by elevating men above women. The men were worshipped and prayed for as hunters and eventually paid more than gatherers of fruits and vegetables that were mainly the women at home and manual workers in the fields. While the ownership and management class rose in power and kept that monopoly referred to as class privilege or white privilege since the wealthy who stayed indoors became associated with lighter skin as aristocratic and the darker skin in every culture became associated with manual and outdoor field labor of the working classes , as well as the darker skin that was valued more in American slavery to distinguish slaves from free people. So Adam Eve and the Garden also has been interpreted to symbolize class disparity by economic development of ownership class vs working class that doesn't own its own labor but remain subjugate to the ruling class in charge because of monetary wealth and knowledge of laws in that sense.

Again Jesus as God's Perfect Authority of Universal / Equal Justice represents liberation from enslavement to the selfish laws of man corrupted by greed for power or antichrist. And to restore God's universal laws of equal justice and good faith relations based on truth to bring healing corrections and peace. That is a more secular external historic interpretation than the symbolic spiritual interpretation of male female relations and balance.

But I find all 3 to be key to understanding the full nature of human conflict and condition past present and future.
Wait........wut?

Notice the tree God told them not to eat from, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Why do you think that is?

Looking at the world today, knowledge, specifically scientific knowledge, is what is destroying us. WMD's, bioengineered Pandemic virus', and possibly carbon emissions, depending on your views of such things, etc.

The message from the Garden is, knowledge without wisdom brings death and judging on how science has the world on the verge of self destruction, who can argue?

Don't make it harder than it has to be.

But the "smart" elites will persist in snubbing their nose at the stupid common folk on how they are destroying the planet, but doing such things as wanting to heat their home and fuel their SUV's, or not wanting to get a vaccine, etc.

Funny thing, apes in the wild have no chance of destroying the planet but highly intelligent apes who study science with no wisdom do.
Yes, the natural knowledge of the laws was corrupted by greed for control of authority to monopolize it.

Moonglow blames churches and religion.

Others blame government and politics.

Whether it is
* spiritual knowledge of the laws over human relations, health and healing,
* economic knowledge of managing land and resources, or
* political knowledge of governmental laws of democratic process and authority
The competition for control is what has befallen man.

Good point Votto
I see your complaints on the corruption as tied to the economic control over resources and the spiritual knowledge of health and healing so people do not fear they have less power than others.
 
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emilynghiem

emilynghiem

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Whatever became of the talking snakes?
Dear Mr Clean
The best interpretation of the snake symbolism ties in with the matriarchal/patriarchal conversion.

Books like "When God Was A Woman" by Merlin Stone interpret this as taking the serpent symbols from goddess worship that represented natural knowledge,
and demonizing this knowledge of natural laws to be Satanic.

Yes and No.

The neutral natural laws are true and apply to everyone universally. Even the caduceus symbol for medicine has the snakes on it. Natural health and healing is good for everyone.

The demonic/satanic part is any dark force spiritism using occult energy.
The type of witchcraft, voodoo, santeria rituals, spells and curses are negative and not healthy to engage in. These practices are dangerous to mix with light lifegiving energy in positive Christian prayers.

The serpents are also common manifestations of demonic spirits seen during exorcisms.

In general these represent evil abuses of knowledge to compete for control by fear and negative motivations.

I use snakes as analogies for why Christians are taught to stay away from references to witches, wizardry, magic and Halloween. Any references to "spiritism" is rejected by fundamental Christians as opening a door to rebellion against God.

I compare this to people who know harmless snakes from venomous ones.
They have no issue dealing with snakes which come naturally to them.

If you don't know the difference and don't care to learn, STAY AWAY.

It isn't worth the risk playing with snakes if you don't know the difference.

That is why some people reject anything Pagan, earth based, or referring to matriarchal/goddess culture, etc.

It is like being super cautious, like avoiding all snakes, just in case it is one of the dangerous types....
Let us get something clear. Adam committed the greater sin. This bullshit about the punishment of Eve, the demonization of witchcraft, and the idea that women should be servants to their husbands is just, well bullshit perpetuated by the early church in order for the male pastors to retain their dominance. The condemnation of witches was simply a land grab by the early church. It is no coincidence that women were forbidden from owning land in the Western world until very recently. While Muslim women, so often described as mistreated, have been able to own land for more than a thousand years.

But back to the greater sin. Eve was tempted by Satan himself, the most beautiful of the angels, and quite accomplished at the art of deceit. Adam, he was tempted by a mere woman. How can anyone argue that Eve's sin was greater. Now I did not come up with this argument. The credit goes to Anne Hutchinson, from 1638.
Yep Winston
This karmic backlash came from somewhere else.

The system flipped from women being seen as the source of life to men being on top.

When I shared this idea with communist activist friends, they presented the idea that women became devalued when meat and hunters became worshipped.

We were both fascinated by the other interpretation!

Why not address both?

Whether it came from trying to monopolize spiritual knowledge that women had over men, or physical economics that divided people by class.

How do we deal with disparities in knowledge and economics to restore equal justice and protections for all?

Christians believe in Restorative Justice.
Constitutionalists enforce Equal Justice Under Law.

For Jesus to be Lord of all lords or laws means to fulfill BOTH paths.
The laws of the church and the laws of the state.

The two collective authorities together, church and state, represent collective roles of mother and father, husband and wife, men and women as equal partners in relations and society.

How do we get back to equal respect so we can all work together to resolve conflicts and disparities?
 
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emilynghiem

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The Book of Genesis is neither a history or science book. It is a book about the relationship between Man and God.
A storybook in other words.

Let’s call it “The Big Book of Myths and Fables “.
Sure Mr Clean
You would either be glad or dismayed to know
the same message can be taught from the Bible even if it is completely mythologized.

If you believe there is a difference between justice and injustice,
and one brings peace and the other causes suffering.

That is enough to discuss the meaning in the Bible and
argue over how ARE we going to get to justice and peace
if humans are selfish, greedy and constantly at war?

Same message, regardless if you use straightforward language
or total manufactured symbolism that may or may not be real.

See 250 word summary I posted previously:

"How to Explain the Bible without Reading it"


(Also called how to explain the Bible to an Atheist, assuming the stories are made up myths)

================================

To explain the story of humanity summarized in the Bible, it helps to distinguish the difference between the Old and New Testaments, which determines if the rest will make sense at all, or even needs to be read.

In short, the Old Testament records the tragic history of living by the "letter of the law" and retributive justice, causing death and genocidal destruction by greed, while the New Testament paints a positive future for humanity, with renewed love of life and relationships by restorative justice, living by the "spirit of the law" for lasting peace.

The key difference between these paths is divine forgiveness, which breaks the cycle of retribution inherited from previous generations. Without forgiveness, suffering repeats, projected forward. However, by receiving forgiveness and correction, where Jesus represents the spiritual process of embracing equal justice, humanity finds liberation from past strife by establishing universal truth, justice, and peace on earth. Thus, human nature is destined to reach maturity in mind, body, and spirit, collectively symbolized by the Holy Trinity.

Salvation in Jesus represents restorative justice with mercy, bringing healing grace to end conflicts. Reconciling local laws among individuals with universal laws on a global scale fulfills both in perfect harmony or marriage between people, as the bride or church, united with the authority of law or state.

The story of sacrifice and redemption represents the spiritual process each individual experiences to grow in life -- through trials, failures, and recovery -- which drives humanity to reach spiritual understanding, wholeness, and peace.

Last edited: Feb 12, 2015
 

Lysistrata

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No matter what anyone tries to make out of the story of Adam and Eve, it is merely an ancient myth designed to justify patriarchy, the subjugation of women, and penis worship. This crap has been used to justify all sorts of mistreatment of women, even to tell women that their pain in childbirth is deserved and justified.

The early "Christians" revered the hateful Tertullian, who described a woman as "a temple built upon a sewer" and made him out to be some kind of hero. In my own lifetime, I have heard a woman who has experienced sex as being "damaged goods;" "goods," like an inanimate object that is bought and sold in a store, not a human being. Yet males with the same history are never called "damaged goods," no matter how much sex they have had.

None of this vile, misogynistic nonsense has any connection to the worship and acknowledgment of the existence of a Supreme Being. Let's call out anyone among "religious" leadership who spreads this evil and rid ourselves of it before it ever causes harm again to any member of the human race, and replace it with respect for our fellow human beings.
 
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emilynghiem

emilynghiem

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No matter what anyone tries to make out of the story of Adam and Eve, it is merely an ancient myth designed to justify patriarchy, the subjugation of women, and penis worship. This crap has been used to justify all sorts of mistreatment of women, even to tell women that their pain in childbirth is deserved and justified.

The early "Christians" revered the hateful Tertullian, who described a woman as "a temple built upon a sewer" and made him out to be some kind of hero. In my own lifetime, I have heard a woman who has experienced sex as being "damaged goods;" "goods," like an inanimate object that is bought and sold in a store, not a human being. Yet males with the same history are never called "damaged goods," no matter how much sex they have had.

None of this vile, misogynistic nonsense has any connection to the worship and acknowledgment of the existence of a Supreme Being. Let's call out anyone among "religious" leadership who spreads this evil and rid ourselves of it before it ever causes harm again to any member of the human race, and replace it with respect for our fellow human beings.
Dear Lysistrata
Where femicide DOES play right into Christian religion and politics IS in achieving humanitarian justice you are arguing for.

A. The teaching that PEOPLE or humanity as a whole ARE the church that "Jesus died to save". That is the same point and message taught in Christianity.
Karmically it makes sense that to compensate and balance for the oppression and abuse suffered by the female side of humanity, then Jesus as a male sacrifice was to balance that out spiritually.

The whole point of what "Jesus represents in Christianity" is to break the karmic oppression and retribution, which affects women as the "trickle down" targets of male dominant oppression and patriarchal politics imposes from top down.

B. Regardless if you don't call this process of global justice for humanity "Jesus" and if rightwing Christians don't see the connection between "social justice" with their own beliefs: The Christian Left pushing for Restorative Justice do see this as the moral message in Christianity.

Instead of fighting to control the process of Equal Justice for All, why not admit it is all part of the same process and work on solutions anyway?

We don't have to agree where problems came from to agree on common solutions.
 

mindfulzen

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Let us get something clear. Adam committed the greater sin. This bullshit about the punishment of Eve, the demonization of witchcraft, and the idea that women should be servants to their husbands is just, well bullshit perpetuated by the early church in order for the male pastors to retain their dominance. The condemnation of witches was simply a land grab by the early church. It is no coincidence that women were forbidden from owning land in the Western world until very recently. While Muslim women, so often described as mistreated, have been able to own land for more than a thousand years.

But back to the greater sin. Eve was tempted by Satan himself, the most beautiful of the angels, and quite accomplished at the art of deceit. Adam, he was tempted by a mere woman. How can anyone argue that Eve's sin was greater. Now I did not come up with this argument. The credit goes to Anne Hutchinson, from 1638.
Agree with the latter part from anne. And add that Adam failed to lead Eve, so ultimately he gets the blame for her sin on top of his shoulders to. He failed to protect eve, so eve failed him, making him fail himself by eating the apple, and then disappointing God. A series of mistakes, while she only failed once, when her shepard was a sleep.
 

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