This place hasn't changed a bit. Just checking in.

[OODA_Loop]

Pregnant women could be charged with assault for having a sip of wine or smoking a cigarette after a particularly stressful day.

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law that recognizes a "child in utero" as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines this term, “child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb."

Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JoeB131]

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law that recognizes a "child in utero" as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines this term, “child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb."

And we already see the problems with that law. People convict on emotion, not facts.

 

[OODA_Loop]

People convict on emotion, not facts.

Like Trump's 34 convictions. Exactly.

So much for your assertion.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

people kept having abortions

.

Not in my state.

I feel clean here.





.

 

[JoeB131]

Like Trump's 34 convictions. Exactly.

So much for your assertion.

Not sure what your point is here.

No one disputes Trump did exactly what he was convicted of.

 

[JoeB131]

.

Not in my state.

I feel clean here.





.

State of Delusion? Women are still having abortions in your state. Sorry.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

State of Delusion? Women are still having abortions in your state. Sorry.

.

Name one and make sure to include proof.





.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Not sure what your point is here.

No one disputes Trump did exactly what he was convicted of.

The fact is the 34 bookkeeping charges were not criminal felonious acts.

But the emotionally charged political motivation to get a mug shot was.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

The fact is the 34 bookkeeping charges were not criminal felonious acts.

But the emotionally charged political motivation to get a mug shot was.

.

And boy, was it ever a mug shot! I'm shopping for a silver bar with that image on it.

My coin dealer is looking for one of these for me.

 

[Chuz Life]

I've explained this to you multiple times.

Her Body, her choice.

Now, I have no respect for a woman who has an abortion because she didn't use birth control, or her plan to get her boyfriend to marry her didn't work, so the fetus becomes expendable.

All that said, it's not my decision, and it's not your decision, either.

Learn to cope.

Again. Help us understand the logic that says a woman's right to their body should not begin when THEIR body began.

 

[JoeB131]

Again. Help us understand the logic that says a woman's right to their body should not begin when THEIR body began.

Because that decision was already made.

There isn't a woman of childbearing years who lived in a time when abortion wasn't legal.

Your problem is you think human existence begins at conception, when most conceived zygotes never turn into babies (failure to attach, abortion, miscarriage)

Here's the thing. Humans were never meant to reproduce at their full potential. Through most of human history, infant mortality was north of 50% and maternal fatality was about 10%. We used science to reduce those numbers.

Legal abortion and contraception just keep the world from being overpopulated.

 

[Chuz Life]

Because that decision was already made.

There isn't a woman of childbearing years who lived in a time when abortion wasn't legal.

Your problem is you think human existence begins at conception, when most conceived zygotes never turn into babies (failure to attach, abortion, miscarriage)

Here's the thing. Humans were never meant to reproduce at their full potential. Through most of human history, infant mortality was north of 50% and maternal fatality was about 10%. We used science to reduce those numbers.

Legal abortion and contraception just keep the world from being overpopulated.

When did YOUR body begin, Joe?

 

[JoeB131]

When did YOUR body begin, Joe?

According to my birth certificate, May 7th, 1962, at 6:38 AM

 

[playtime]

The fact is the 34 bookkeeping charges

false.

D.A. Bragg Announces 34-Count Felony Trial Conviction of Donald J. Trump​

May 30, 2024
Jury Finds the Defendant Guilty of 34 Counts of Falsifying Business Records

Manhattan District Attorney Alvin L. Bragg, Jr. today announced the all-count trial conviction of DONALD J. TRUMP, 77, for falsifying New York business records in order to conceal his illegal scheme to corrupt the 2016 election. TRUMP was convicted by a New York State Supreme Court jury of 34 counts of Falsifying Business Records in the First Degree. He is expected to be sentenced on July 11.
D.A. Bragg Announces 34-Count Felony Trial Conviction of Donald J. Trump

were not criminal felonious acts.

false.

Felony Classes​

There are a total of five felony classes: Class A felony, Class B felony, Class C felony, Class D felony, and Class E felony, with A being the most serious (potentially leading to life imprisonment) and E being the least. However, this does not mean that a Class E felony charge should be taken at all lightly – New York State penal code describes a Class E felony as ‘an offense for which a sentence to a term of imprisonment in excess of one year may be imposed’.
What is a New York Class E Felony?

What is a Class “E” felony in New York​

Class “E” felonies are the least serious felonies. However, they are still felonies, still need to be taken seriously and can result in a prison sentence of up to 4 years in state prison. However, there are no minimums for first time felony offenders and a person convicted of a class “E” felony can even receive a sentence of probation or a conditional discharge. Most class “E” felonies are non-violent. The only violent class “E” felonies are attempts to commit violent class “D” felonies such as Attempted Assault in the Second Degree or Attempted Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Third Degree. N0n-violent class “E” felonies can run the gamut from Criminally Negligent Homicide, Grand Larceny in the Fourth Degree or Criminal Mischief in the Third Degree. A person who is a predicate felon is required to go to prison even on a “E” felony.
D.A. Bragg Announces 34-Count Felony Trial Conviction of Donald J. Trump

But the emotionally charged political motivation to get a mug shot was.

false.

ALL felons get their mug shot.

 

[Chuz Life]

Because that decision was already made.

There isn't a woman of childbearing years who lived in a time when abortion wasn't legal.

Your problem is you think human existence begins at conception, when most conceived zygotes never turn into babies (failure to attach, abortion, miscarriage)

Here's the thing. Humans were never meant to reproduce at their full potential. Through most of human history, infant mortality was north of 50% and maternal fatality was about 10%. We used science to reduce those numbers.

Legal abortion and contraception just keep the world from being overpopulated.

According to my birth certificate, May 7th, 1962, at 6:38 AM

I'M embarrased for you. That anyone thinks they have to lie, divert and deny things to the extent that you do.

But, lets press on.

Joe, did anyone exist or have bodies of their own before birth certificates were invented?

 

[Chuz Life]

Naw, the problem is you finally got what you wanted (getting rid of Roe) and people kept having abortions.

Imagine that.

Even ******* Kansas and Ohio have voted to enshrine Roe protections.

Your comment shows that you don't have a clue about what my "wants" are, Joey.

The SCOTUS could have, and in my opinion, should have overturned differently than they did with the Dobbs decision.

I digress.

Incrementalism it is.

 

[Chuz Life]

Naw, the problem is you finally got what you wanted (getting rid of Roe) and people kept having abortions.

Imagine that.

Even ******* Kansas and Ohio have voted to enshrine Roe protections.

I agree, Roe was a bad decision. This should have played out in the state legislatures.

The problem with pro-life nutters like Ugly Baby Guy is that they don't get that prohibiting a behavior never really works if there isn't universal agreement that it's wrong. This is why Prohibition didn't work.

If you are seriously about reducing the number of abortions, change the culture, not the law.

Same guy said both.

Whiplash much?

 

[Chuz Life]

State of Delusion? Women are still having abortions in your state. Sorry.

Great observation.

Do any of the other forms of molestation continue despite the laws against it, in ANY of the States?

Hmmmmm. It seems they do.

So, what other purpose for those laws might there be?

Any clues, Joey?

 

[Chuz Life]

And if there was universal agreement that fetuses were children, you might have a point.

In Your Opinion, maybe.

Thankfully, you are not the final arbiter for that point for anyone other than yourself.

I had some unpleasant conversations with pro-abortion advocates on another board, so I'm trying to be a little more open-minded on the issue. Still, the reality is that as long as you have disagreements on when life begins, laws against abortion are going to be meaningless.

Pro-"abortion" you say.

That's odd. We (anti-aborts) are told all the time that there is no such thing as "pro aborts."

Finally, good to see one admit it.

Let's stipulate that both you and I agree, less abortion would be a laudible goal. The only question is how you get there.

Laws that will be broken and won't be seriously enforced, or changes in policies to either prevent unwanted pregenancies before they happen or provide assistance when they do.

Conceivable , changing laws is a big part of changing cultures and mindsets.

That said, that ("changing culture") is not the role of the government. Nor is it the purpose of our laws.

The purpose of our laws is to make the violation of one person's basic human rights by another, something that is "punishable."

 

[JoeB131]

I'M embarrased for you. That anyone thinks they have to lie, divert and deny things to the extent that you do.

But, lets press on.

Joe, did anyone exist or have bodies of their own before birth certificates were invented?

Did anyone exist who wasn't a famous person? Do we remember anyone who lived 200 years ago unless they did something important?

Your comment shows that you don't have a clue about what my "wants" are, Joey.

The SCOTUS could have, and in my opinion, should have overturned differently than they did with the Dobbs decision.

I digress.

Incrementalism it is.

Nope, you will lose, inevitably. You might have some backwater red state where someone is going to have to drive across straight lines to get reproductive care, but inevitably, you will lose.

Heck, you guys are terrified to put the issue on the ballot, after Kansas and Ohio voted to enshrine Roe as written.

Same guy said both.

Whiplash much?

Nope that you are so rigid in your thinking to avoid pragmatism, is your problem.

Great observation.

Do any of the other forms of molestation continue despite the laws against it, in ANY of the States?

Hmmmmm. It seems they do.

So, what other purpose for those laws might there be?

Any clues, Joey?

Um, it's to enforce common values. Your fanaticism about globby the fetus isn't a common value. Most people think abortion should be legal in most circumstances.