This place hasn't changed a bit. Just checking in.

[Chuz Life]

Did anyone exist who wasn't a famous person? Do we remember anyone who lived 200 years ago unless they did something important?



Nope, you will lose, inevitably. You might have some backwater red state where someone is going to have to drive across straight lines to get reproductive care, but inevitably, you will lose.

Heck, you guys are terrified to put the issue on the ballot, after Kansas and Ohio voted to enshrine Roe as written.


Nope that you are so rigid in your thinking to avoid pragmatism, is your problem.



Um, it's to enforce common values. Your fanaticism about globby the fetus isn't a common value. Most people think abortion should be legal in most circumstances.

Grok has my back on this.

Cry Moar!

 

[JoeB131]

View attachment 1139469

That's easy. Fetuses aren't children under the law.

So I don't have to imagine anything.

Once you give Globby more rights than the woman he is inside, you deny half the population rights over their own bodies.

That is absolute chaos.

Investigating every miscarriage as a homicide (you'd have to; otherwise, OB/GYNs will just declare every abortion they perform a miscarriage.)

IVF? Can't do that. Once you declared an embryo a person, then freezing him for years would be a violation of his civil rights.

Women are going to be held hostage to the little glob in their bodies. That's just insane.

In Your Opinion, maybe.

Thankfully, you are not the final arbiter for that point for anyone other than yourself.

Pro-"abortion" you say.

That's odd. We (anti-aborts) are told all the time that there is no such thing as "pro aborts."

Finally, good to see one admit it.

Pro- and Anti-Abortion people are equally unpleasant fanatics.

I might disdain a falling-down drunk, but I wouldn't bring back Prohibition.
I might disdain an irresponsible woman who uses abortion as birth control, But i wouldn't want to go back to the Pre-Roe laws.

I also think prostitution laws and drug laws are stupid, even if I don't condone the behavior.

I consider freedom to be more important than my personal morality.

Conceivable , changing laws is a big part of changing cultures and mindsets.

That said, that ("changing culture") is not the role of the government. Nor is it the purpose of our laws.

The purpose of our laws is to make the violation of one person's basic human rights by another, something that is "punishable."

Okay, and therein lies your problem. You can't protect globby the fetus's right to life without violating the right of a woman to control her own body.

And since women vote and fetuses don't.. well, this is a democracy.

 

[JoeB131]

Grok has my back on this.

If you are citing MechaHitler to make your so-called points, there's not much point in bothering.

 

[Chuz Life]

If you are citing MechaHitler to make your so-called points, there's not much point in bothering.

Let's check some others.
Co-Pilot:

Chat GPT:

Google AI:

They are all in on it.

Aren't they.

 

[Chuz Life]

That's easy. Fetuses aren't children under the law.

Except for when and where they are.

Do you deny that a child that is only in the fetal stage of their life, growth, and development is a child - WHILE they are in that part of their life, growth, and development?

 

[JoeB131]

Let's check some others.
Co-Pilot:

If you can't come up with orginial ideas and have to go to Chat GPT, then I'm not going to waste time with you.

Except for when and where they are.

Do you deny that a child that is only in the fetal stage of their life, growth, and development is a child - WHILE they are in that part of their life, growth, and development?

No, it's an earlier stage of development.
Which doesn't mean you make a woman a prisoner to it if she doesn't want to be.

Again, competing rights.

The full grown woman has more rights than a glob of tissue.

the fact that many of you on the anti-Abortion side are willing to make exceptions for

Threat to the woman's life
Threat to the woman's health
Rape
Incest
Severe deformation of the fetus

says that the woman's right is paramount, at least in some cases.

Therefore, it's logical to conclude her rights are paramount in ALL cases.

But as a practical matter, if a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, she'll find a way to not be pregnant.

 

[Billiejeens]

All the Level Five souls will tell you that the Soul is often not brought into the body until several weeks after birth and never before birth .

But by all means cling to your quaint old fashioned opinion .
You will catch up with reality when you reach that future level .

Or chat about it in your next period between incarnations .
Unfortunately though, your memory is wiped clean each life period except for a known handful of exceptions / mistakes .

You're an example of a mistake

 

[Chuz Life]

If you can't come up with orginial ideas and have to go to Chat GPT, then I'm not going to waste time with you.



No, it's an earlier stage of development.
Which doesn't mean you make a woman a prisoner to it if she doesn't want to be.

Again, competing rights.

The full grown woman has more rights than a glob of tissue.

the fact that many of you on the anti-Abortion side are willing to make exceptions for

Threat to the woman's life
Threat to the woman's health
Rape
Incest
Severe deformation of the fetus

says that the woman's right is paramount, at least in some cases.

Therefore, it's logical to conclude her rights are paramount in ALL cases.

But as a practical matter, if a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, she'll find a way to not be pregnant.

Question everyone else. . . Am I wasting my time with these (Joe's) trolling denials, or are you getting anything out of the answers as a takeaway?

 

[JoeB131]

Question everyone else. . . Am I wasting my time with these (Joe's) trolling denials, or are you getting anything out of the answers as a takeaway?

Naw, I'm sure everyone else likes watching you get spanked.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Fetuses aren't children under the law.

Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Chuz Life]

Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This one too.

(a) In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the words “person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual”, shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development.

(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to affirm, deny, expand, or contract any legal status or legal right applicable to any member of the species homo sapiens at any point prior to being “born alive” as defined in this section.

https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-1-general-provisions/1-usc-sect-8/

 

[JoeB131]

Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nope. Still doesn't make them "people".

In fact, the 14th Amendment specifies that you are only a citizen if you are BORN in the United States.

not unborn.

Fetuses aren't counted in the Census, and you can't claim a fetus as a tax deduction.

 

[Chuz Life]

Nope. Still doesn't make them "people".

In fact, the 14th Amendment specifies that you are only a citizen if you are BORN in the United States.

not unborn.

Fetuses aren't counted in the Census, and you can't claim a fetus as a tax deduction.

 

[JoeB131]

View attachment 1139852

It's not person enough to get you what you want, which is an end to legal abortion.

The thing is, the Religious Fanatics have tried to abuse fetal homicide laws to go after women who had abortions or miscarriages, and the public outcry has slapped them down.

Look up the cases of Purvi Patel or Bei-Bei Shaui

 

[Chuz Life]

It's not person enough to get you what you want, which is an end to legal abortion.

The thing is, the Religious Fanatics have tried to abuse fetal homicide laws to go after women who had abortions or miscarriages, and the public outcry has slapped them down.

Look up the cases of Purvi Patel or Bei-Bei Shaui

Hang on.

I'm reading.

 

[JoeB131]

Hang on.

I'm reading.
View attachment 1139861

so women will have to drive a little further to get abortions...

but they'll still get them.

 

[Chuz Life]

so women will have to drive a little further to get abortions...

but they'll still get them.

Is that how you define "public slapping us (anti-aborts) down, now?

 

[JoeB131]

Is that how you define "public slapping us (anti-aborts) down, now?

ACtually, I was referring to where the matter was put on the ballot.

So let's put Abortion rights on the ballot in Texas, see how that works out for you.

 

[Chuz Life]

ACtually, I was referring to where the matter was put on the ballot.

So let's put Abortion rights on the ballot in Texas, see how that works out for you.

Ok, let's do the same with gender re-assignment and gay marriage too.

But, let's have a period of time for each side to campaign. (your plan)

OR

Let's get the right cases to the SCOTUS and have the SCOTUS rule on the Constitutionality of each issue - independently (my plan)

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Anthropocentric Psychopaths Selling Lies As Traitors Against Constitution Of Us Republic "

* A Separate Offense Against The Mother With Appropriate Penalty *

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law that recognizes a "child in utero" as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines this term, “child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb."

Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The flamboyant legalese for pretenses of conveying constitutional protections upon a fetus is debase , as by the enumerated rite to equal protection from us 14th amendment a live birth is required for legitimate state interests .

The crime is against the mother - period , and recompense can be appropriate for the wrong .

The death penalty cannot be applied because by removing a constitutional rite to life of another is required , albeit through due process , for removal of ones own rite to life , by equitable doctrine , from enumerated rite to equal protection in us 14th amendment .

18 U.S. Code § 1841 - Protection of unborn children

www.law.cornell.edu

(1) Whoever engages in conduct that violates any of the provisions of law listed in subsection (b) and thereby causes the death of, or bodily injury (as defined in section 1365) to, a child, who is in utero at the time the conduct takes place, is guilty of a separate offense under this section.
(2)
(A)
Except as otherwise provided in this paragraph, the punishment for that separate offense is the same as the punishment provided under Federal law for that conduct had that injury or death occurred to the unborn child’s mother.
The penalties for harming the unborn child are generally equivalent to those for similar harm caused to the mother, but intentional killing or attempted killing of the fetus is treated as murder or attempted murder.

(B) <BLAH>
(C)
If the person engaging in the conduct thereby intentionally kills or attempts to kill the unborn child, that person shall instead of being punished under subparagraph (A), be punished as provided under sections 1111, 1112, and 1113 of this title for intentionally killing or attempting to kill a human being.
(D)
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the death penalty shall not be imposed for an offense under this section.