Againsheila
Gold Member
José;2210971 said:
IMO, when we flew our flag over Mexico City, we should have just kept it there, then we wouldn't be having this problem today.
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IMO, when we flew our flag over Mexico City, we should have just kept it there, then we wouldn't be having this problem today.
Toronado3800
Gold Member
- Nov 15, 2009
- 7,608
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The Texas war for Independence and the Mexican American war are both good soap operas. The type of things evil empires bent on conquering the universe do in sci-fi shows.
Illegals here now? Yup, they're illegal. I still think I'd rather have an illegal next door to me who is here to work and stay than an entitled feeling American willing to loaf their way to government subsidies.
Does that mean I don't care if illegals kill 25 citizens a day? No it doesn't. I'm just not that impressed by the statistic as a % since we have 300 million (300,000,025) ppl. Like if I posted "1 Jew is murdered by a German every day". Sure its terrible. Just not enough for me to invade and baby sit them for 50 years again.
figures, you don't give a shit as long as it doesn't happen to you.. I bet that childless widow in San Francisco would kick your ass if you said that to her face.
No, very dramatic but you misunderstand.
Would you like to outlaw automobiles since they kill xxxx Americans a day? No.
Should I say you are cold hearted and don't care? No.
My general point is I support MORE open borders in the interest of keeping the melting pot which has made us great churning. Heck, let in more mexicans and they'll be more demand for our real estate.
Toronado3800
Gold Member
- Nov 15, 2009
- 7,608
- 560
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Mexico SOLD the land to the USA for $15,000,000 which was alot of money at that time. After all, THEY could not figure out what to do with such a desert wasteland.
What land are we talking about here? The Gadsden Purchase?
Close the damned borders and no one gets in without a just reason and a back ground check.
José;2210980 said:But that's all in the past... Mexico has already accepted its territorial loss and moved on. The land now rightfully belongs to America and no one is disputing this.
All we're asking for is a bit of respect for the people to whom those territories belonged in the past.
What do I mean by a respectful attitude towards illegal Mexicans?
Keep in mind the fact that Mexico had to lose half of its territory so that America could fulfill its continental dream. America has an unpayable, everlasting debt of gratitude to Mexico.
SO STOP FANTASIZING ABOUT SHOOTING ILLEGAL MEXICANS AS THEY CROSS THE BORDER.
STOP FANTASIZING ABOUT GIVING THEM LONG TERM JAIL SENTENCES WITH HARD LABOR FOR THE CRIME OF WORKING IN THE US.
STOP CALLING THEM "CRIMINALS", LEECHES, ETC, ETC...
JUST PUT THEM ON BUSES AND SEND THEM BACK TO MEXICO AS HUMANELY AS POSSIBLE.
Criminals are criminals - illegally crossing the US border is a criminal act. Sorry, but those are the facts. No rational person wants them shot or treated poorly, we just want them to follow the law. If they want to come to the USA and work - get a work visa. Apply for citizenship. Is it too much to ask that immigrants follow the laws we have in place? Do that and nobody can or will complain. I am all for LEGAL immigration. My grandparents immigrated to the USA - LEGALLY!!!!
Dr Gregg
Rookie
- Jan 28, 2010
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José;2210980 said:But that's all in the past... Mexico has already accepted its territorial loss and moved on. The land now rightfully belongs to America and no one is disputing this.
All we're asking for is a bit of respect for the people to whom those territories belonged in the past.
What do I mean by a respectful attitude towards illegal Mexicans?
Keep in mind the fact that Mexico had to lose half of its territory so that America could fulfill its continental dream. America has an unpayable, everlasting debt of gratitude to Mexico.
SO STOP FANTASIZING ABOUT SHOOTING ILLEGAL MEXICANS AS THEY CROSS THE BORDER.
STOP FANTASIZING ABOUT GIVING THEM LONG TERM JAIL SENTENCES WITH HARD LABOR FOR THE CRIME OF WORKING IN THE US.
STOP CALLING THEM "CRIMINALS", LEECHES, ETC, ETC...
JUST PUT THEM ON BUSES AND SEND THEM BACK TO MEXICO AS HUMANELY AS POSSIBLE.
Criminals are criminals - illegally crossing the US border is a criminal act. Sorry, but those are the facts. No rational person wants them shot or treated poorly, we just want them to follow the law. If they want to come to the USA and work - get a work visa. Apply for citizenship. Is it too much to ask that immigrants follow the laws we have in place? Do that and nobody can or will complain. I am all for LEGAL immigration. My grandparents immigrated to the USA - LEGALLY!!!!
except that costs money and these people are dirt poor and trying to survive.You'd do the same if the roles were reversed and you were a poor person trying to get to a land of opportunity
José;2210980 said:But that's all in the past... Mexico has already accepted its territorial loss and moved on. The land now rightfully belongs to America and no one is disputing this.
All we're asking for is a bit of respect for the people to whom those territories belonged in the past.
What do I mean by a respectful attitude towards illegal Mexicans?
Keep in mind the fact that Mexico had to lose half of its territory so that America could fulfill its continental dream. America has an unpayable, everlasting debt of gratitude to Mexico.
SO STOP FANTASIZING ABOUT SHOOTING ILLEGAL MEXICANS AS THEY CROSS THE BORDER.
STOP FANTASIZING ABOUT GIVING THEM LONG TERM JAIL SENTENCES WITH HARD LABOR FOR THE CRIME OF WORKING IN THE US.
STOP CALLING THEM "CRIMINALS", LEECHES, ETC, ETC...
JUST PUT THEM ON BUSES AND SEND THEM BACK TO MEXICO AS HUMANELY AS POSSIBLE.
Criminals are criminals - illegally crossing the US border is a criminal act. Sorry, but those are the facts. No rational person wants them shot or treated poorly, we just want them to follow the law. If they want to come to the USA and work - get a work visa. Apply for citizenship. Is it too much to ask that immigrants follow the laws we have in place? Do that and nobody can or will complain. I am all for LEGAL immigration. My grandparents immigrated to the USA - LEGALLY!!!!
except that costs money and these people are dirt poor and trying to survive.You'd do the same if the roles were reversed and you were a poor person trying to get to a land of opportunity
Tough titty said the kitty. Life is a bitch, Close the borders.
Originally posted by Zander
Criminals are criminals - illegally crossing the US border is a criminal act. Sorry, but those are the facts. No rational person wants them shot or treated poorly, we just want them to follow the law. If they want to come to the USA and work - get a work visa. Apply for citizenship. Is it too much to ask that immigrants follow the laws we have in place? Do that and nobody can or will complain. I am all for LEGAL immigration. My grandparents immigrated to the USA - LEGALLY!!!!
It's a shame you cannot perceive the deep irony behind your own words, Zander.
You're talking about a region that wouldn't even be a part of the US today were it not for illegal immigration.
Ollie seems to have a more realistic, pragmatic view on illegal immigration. He doesn't waste his time blaming Mexicans for doing what just about every group of humans has been doing for the last 30.000 years:
Moving to wealthier parts of the world.
He seems to concentrate his energies on demanding that HIS EMPLOYEE (the American Government) do what he pays him to do.
Moving to wealthier parts of the world.
He seems to concentrate his energies on demanding that HIS EMPLOYEE (the American Government) do what he pays him to do.
Last edited:
José;2211949 said:Ollie seems to have a more realistic, pragmatic view on illegal immigration. He doesn't waste his time blaming Mexicans for doing what just about every group of humans has been doing for the last 30.000 years:
Moving to wealthier parts of the world.
He seems to concentrate his energies on demanding that HIS EMPLOYEE (the American Government) do what he pays him to do.
I don't blame Mexicans because they are not at fault. Our government is at fault. BTW my wife (Maria Guadalupe) And her family from Corpus Christi, Tx all agree that we need to seal the borders. just sayin.
nraforlife
Active Member
- Apr 7, 2010
- 713
- 53
- 28
Bring the Army back from the M.E. Use it to seal the Mex border and also to occupy/annex Baja as reparations from the Mex.
Bring the Army back from the M.E. Use it to seal the Mex border and also to occupy/annex Baja as reparations from the Mex.
No
Mexico's Immigration Law: Let's Try It Here at Home
by J. Michael Waller
05/08/2006
Mexico has a radical idea for a rational immigration policy that most Americans would love. However, Mexican officials havent been sharing that idea with us as they press for our Congress to adopt the McCain-Kennedy immigration reform bill.
That's too bad, because Mexico, which annually deports more illegal aliens than the United States does, has much to teach us about how it handles the immigration issue. Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.
At a time when the Supreme Court and many politicians seek to bring American law in line with foreign legal norms, its noteworthy that nobody has argued that the U.S. look at how Mexico deals with immigration and what it might teach us about how best to solve
our illegal immigration problem. Mexico has a single, streamlined law that ensures that foreign visitors and immigrants are:
in the country legally;
have the means to sustain themselves economically;
not destined to be burdens on society;
of economic and social benefit to society;
of good character and have no criminal records; and
contributors to the general well-being of the nation.
The law also ensures that:
immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;
foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;
foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the countrys internal politics;
foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;
foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;
those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.
Who could disagree with such a law? It makes perfect sense. The Mexican constitution strictly defines the rights of citizens -- and the denial of many fundamental rights to non-citizens, illegal and illegal. Under the constitution, the Ley General de Población, or
General Law on Population, spells out specifically the country's immigration policy.
It is an interesting law -- and one that should cause us all to ask, Why is our great southern neighbor pushing us to water down our own immigration laws and policies, when its own immigration restrictions are the toughest on the continent? If a felony is a
crime punishable by more than one year in prison, then Mexican law makes it a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.
If the United States adopted such statutes, Mexico no doubt would denounce it as a manifestation of American racism and bigotry.
We looked at the immigration provisions of the Mexican constitution. [1] Now let's look at Mexico's main immigration law.
Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:
Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress." (Article 32)
Immigration officials must "ensure" that "immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents. (Article 34)
Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics," when foreigners are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when "they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy." (Article 37)
The Secretary of Governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest." (Article 38)
Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:
Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)
A National Population Registry keeps track of "every single individual who comprises the population of the country," and verifies each individual's identity. (Articles 85 and 86)
A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91).
Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:
Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)
Foreigners who sign government documents "with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses" are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)
Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:
Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)
Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)
Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico -- such as working with out a permit -- can also be imprisoned.
Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,
"A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." (Article 123)
Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)
Foreigners who "attempt against national sovereignty or security" will be deported. (Article 126)
Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:
A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)
Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)
All of the above runs contrary to what Mexican leaders are demanding of the United States. The stark contrast between Mexico's immigration practices versus its American
immigration preachings is telling. It gives a clear picture of the Mexican government's agenda: to have a one-way immigration relationship with the United States.
Let's call Mexico's bluff on its unwarranted interference in U.S. immigration policy. Let's propose, just to make a point, that the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) member nations standardize their immigration laws by using Mexico's own law as a model.
This article was first posted at CenterforSecurityPolicy.org.
by J. Michael Waller
05/08/2006
Mexico has a radical idea for a rational immigration policy that most Americans would love. However, Mexican officials havent been sharing that idea with us as they press for our Congress to adopt the McCain-Kennedy immigration reform bill.
That's too bad, because Mexico, which annually deports more illegal aliens than the United States does, has much to teach us about how it handles the immigration issue. Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.
At a time when the Supreme Court and many politicians seek to bring American law in line with foreign legal norms, its noteworthy that nobody has argued that the U.S. look at how Mexico deals with immigration and what it might teach us about how best to solve
our illegal immigration problem. Mexico has a single, streamlined law that ensures that foreign visitors and immigrants are:
in the country legally;
have the means to sustain themselves economically;
not destined to be burdens on society;
of economic and social benefit to society;
of good character and have no criminal records; and
contributors to the general well-being of the nation.
The law also ensures that:
immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;
foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;
foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the countrys internal politics;
foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;
foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;
those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.
Who could disagree with such a law? It makes perfect sense. The Mexican constitution strictly defines the rights of citizens -- and the denial of many fundamental rights to non-citizens, illegal and illegal. Under the constitution, the Ley General de Población, or
General Law on Population, spells out specifically the country's immigration policy.
It is an interesting law -- and one that should cause us all to ask, Why is our great southern neighbor pushing us to water down our own immigration laws and policies, when its own immigration restrictions are the toughest on the continent? If a felony is a
crime punishable by more than one year in prison, then Mexican law makes it a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.
If the United States adopted such statutes, Mexico no doubt would denounce it as a manifestation of American racism and bigotry.
We looked at the immigration provisions of the Mexican constitution. [1] Now let's look at Mexico's main immigration law.
Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:
Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress." (Article 32)
Immigration officials must "ensure" that "immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents. (Article 34)
Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics," when foreigners are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when "they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy." (Article 37)
The Secretary of Governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest." (Article 38)
Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:
Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)
A National Population Registry keeps track of "every single individual who comprises the population of the country," and verifies each individual's identity. (Articles 85 and 86)
A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91).
Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:
Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)
Foreigners who sign government documents "with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses" are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)
Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:
Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)
Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)
Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico -- such as working with out a permit -- can also be imprisoned.
Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,
"A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." (Article 123)
Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)
Foreigners who "attempt against national sovereignty or security" will be deported. (Article 126)
Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:
A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)
Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)
All of the above runs contrary to what Mexican leaders are demanding of the United States. The stark contrast between Mexico's immigration practices versus its American
immigration preachings is telling. It gives a clear picture of the Mexican government's agenda: to have a one-way immigration relationship with the United States.
Let's call Mexico's bluff on its unwarranted interference in U.S. immigration policy. Let's propose, just to make a point, that the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) member nations standardize their immigration laws by using Mexico's own law as a model.
This article was first posted at CenterforSecurityPolicy.org.
And if I did, I would be a criminal and subject to whatever punishment the law calls for.José;2210980 said:But that's all in the past... Mexico has already accepted its territorial loss and moved on. The land now rightfully belongs to America and no one is disputing this.
All we're asking for is a bit of respect for the people to whom those territories belonged in the past.
What do I mean by a respectful attitude towards illegal Mexicans?
Keep in mind the fact that Mexico had to lose half of its territory so that America could fulfill its continental dream. America has an unpayable, everlasting debt of gratitude to Mexico.
SO STOP FANTASIZING ABOUT SHOOTING ILLEGAL MEXICANS AS THEY CROSS THE BORDER.
STOP FANTASIZING ABOUT GIVING THEM LONG TERM JAIL SENTENCES WITH HARD LABOR FOR THE CRIME OF WORKING IN THE US.
STOP CALLING THEM "CRIMINALS", LEECHES, ETC, ETC...
JUST PUT THEM ON BUSES AND SEND THEM BACK TO MEXICO AS HUMANELY AS POSSIBLE.
Criminals are criminals - illegally crossing the US border is a criminal act. Sorry, but those are the facts. No rational person wants them shot or treated poorly, we just want them to follow the law. If they want to come to the USA and work - get a work visa. Apply for citizenship. Is it too much to ask that immigrants follow the laws we have in place? Do that and nobody can or will complain. I am all for LEGAL immigration. My grandparents immigrated to the USA - LEGALLY!!!!
except that costs money and these people are dirt poor and trying to survive.You'd do the same if the roles were reversed and you were a poor person trying to get to a land of opportunity
Toronado3800
Gold Member
- Nov 15, 2009
- 7,608
- 560
- 140
Zander, I will admit, illegal is illegal. My real point of contention is I believe in loosening immigration laws.
nraforlife, off and on I'm all for annexing Mexico. Don't know if it would make our car manufacturer's happy if their shiny new Mexican plants ever had to meet EPA standards but everyone can't be happy. Really if West Germany could absorb the East then.......
nraforlife, off and on I'm all for annexing Mexico. Don't know if it would make our car manufacturer's happy if their shiny new Mexican plants ever had to meet EPA standards but everyone can't be happy. Really if West Germany could absorb the East then.......
Zander, I will admit, illegal is illegal. My real point of contention is I believe in loosening immigration laws.
nraforlife, off and on I'm all for annexing Mexico. Don't know if it would make our car manufacturer's happy if their shiny new Mexican plants ever had to meet EPA standards but everyone can't be happy. Really if West Germany could absorb the East then.......
And I believe we should tighten up. At least until we have a handle on who is coming into the country. And we have to stop the illegal entry. Again, no one should be permitted to enter the USA without a valid reason and a background check.
LuckyDan
Sublime
☭proletarian☭;2204718 said:
Suggestion: Stay in Mexico and work on jailing your corrupt as hell leaders.
Otherwise, can you at least sign the damn guest book on the way in?
Originally written by J. Michael Waller
It is an interesting law -- and one that should cause us all to ask, Why is our great southern neighbor pushing us to water down our own immigration laws and policies, when its own immigration restrictions are the toughest on the continent? If a felony is a crime punishable by more than one year in prison, then Mexican law makes it a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.
Michael, you mentally retarded super patriotic american clown from Hell!!!!!!
Mexico is not "pushing the US to water down its own immigration laws and policies".
The only place in the world where Mexico has enough military/economic power to force the US to do anything is inside your moronic, imbecilic, super patriotic mind!!!!
The ones "pushing the US to water down its own immigration laws and policies" are AMERICAN POLITICIANS wanting to enlarge their voting base and/or pandering to their hispanic constituencies and voting blocs, AMERICAN CORPORATIONS craving for cheap labor and your own FELLOW AMERICAN CITIZENS who don't think illegal immigration is an existential threat to the USA and who are represented on this Board by posters like Ravi, TruthMatters, Toro, Father Time and Toronado among many others.
You Michael, are the typical morally depraved super patriotic american clown who's always looking for foreigners to scapegoat in order to avoid blaming your own government's MASSIVE DERELICTION OF DUTY!!
Last edited:
woodjack
Senior Member
[/QUOTE]
except that costs money and these people are dirt poor and trying to survive.You'd do the same if the roles were reversed and you were a poor person trying to get to a land of opportunity[/QUOTE]
really? Well they could actually fight for their own country and make it a better place. Perhaps the revolutionaries during the revolutionary war should have just gone with the english rule because the struggle for independance was too hard. Imagine, they sacrificed everything they had to fight that war, family, wealth, and their own lives. No hospitals facing the elements, no fresh water, food. and people will say it was easier to do that back then. I would not go to another land to seek opportunity, my ancestors fought for this land and made it what it is today, It would be a diservice to them if I left instead of fight.
Don't mexicans find it embarrassing to be living as illegals? Perhaps they/we have degenerated to a societies that have no pride or self respect. I cannot imagine living like that. But most of them I imagine think it is perfectly normal. Sad.
except that costs money and these people are dirt poor and trying to survive.You'd do the same if the roles were reversed and you were a poor person trying to get to a land of opportunity[/QUOTE]
really? Well they could actually fight for their own country and make it a better place. Perhaps the revolutionaries during the revolutionary war should have just gone with the english rule because the struggle for independance was too hard. Imagine, they sacrificed everything they had to fight that war, family, wealth, and their own lives. No hospitals facing the elements, no fresh water, food. and people will say it was easier to do that back then. I would not go to another land to seek opportunity, my ancestors fought for this land and made it what it is today, It would be a diservice to them if I left instead of fight.
Don't mexicans find it embarrassing to be living as illegals? Perhaps they/we have degenerated to a societies that have no pride or self respect. I cannot imagine living like that. But most of them I imagine think it is perfectly normal. Sad.
Toronado3800
Gold Member
- Nov 15, 2009
- 7,608
- 560
- 140
What's embarrassing about it?Don't mexicans find it embarrassing to be living as illegals? Perhaps they/we have degenerated to a societies that have no pride or self respect. I cannot imagine living like that. But most of them I imagine think it is perfectly normal. Sad.
Now being on a drug dealer's payroll in Mexico is embarrassing.
Being associated with mobsters and corrupt politicians is embarrassing.
Some, thanks to the laws think of themselves as here on a temporary basis. Earning money as best as they can until they eventually get caught and shipped back. Poof, there goes more of our money redistributed to Mexico. Wish they stayed here with it.
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