Zone1 There really is no such thing as " My body ....my choice ".....

[frigidweirdo]

Technically speaking there really is no such thing as “ my body …my choice “ it’s nothing more than a fantasy, a day dream to make people believe that they are actually totally independent….which is another misconception ( no pun intended but hey).

Gravity says you have no choice…doubt what I say? Jump off of a high roof and test it out. Can you choose to boycott oxygen? I mean after all that evil gas is the reason why we produce so much Co2…why don’t you refuse to take in any Oxygen? It’s a worthy cause right? It’s my body and I say NO MORE OXYGEN! It’s my choice!!

Can you choose to defecate on your neighbor’s lawn? Sure you can….but can you do it with Impunity? After all it’s your body no? So have at it and try that line on the police officers that show up. Soooo…..what is this “My Choice” stuff? Does it apply to vaccines? Does it apply to abortions?

When does the option to choose become an issue? We have the argument that a fetus is not a person but there is no person alive today who was not first a fetus… yeah maybe Michelle Obama…not sure but she’s just different. So the actual and intrinsic truth here is that you cannot have a person without a fetus and I maintain that the reverse is also therefore true…you cannot have a fetus without also having a person.


So yeah….I guess that’s the big argument here. But to me it’s pretty clear. Can anyone think of any examples of anything at all as complicated as the human genome outside of the human body? I doubt it. That complete set of instructions embodied in the fetus is unique just like every finger print is unique.


So to the women who decide to ignore the fact that a life is in the womb and not just a chunk of fancy looking meat I say that you are ignorant of the greater social aspects of who you are and where you came from and what your moral and ethical obligations are.


I probably have some reservations about forcing a rape victim to give birth but that would be a totally different issue…more for the legal pages than here.
I also understand the termination of a pregnancy where the fetus has been determined to be fatally deficient and totally incapable of life outside the womb.
But for the idiot females who get pregnant just to have an abortion for the sake of it.


You deserve the death penalty IMO.





JO

We could make the argument that everything is predestined. I mean, if the Big Bang happened, then it's an explosion, what happens after the explosion is predestined from how the explosion happened.

We can recreate the explosion from where all the bits ended up. In theory we could do this with the Big Bang, all the atoms and energy are still out there, we just need to find it all and understand it all.

So everything we do was predestined to happen, billions of years ago.

 

[Red Front]

It’s a contract. Both parties involved know the potential ramifications. For some reason, feminists believe they’re above any obligation to either the father or the kid.

The man doesn't have ownership rights over a zygote, embryo, or fetus, in a woman's body, because he impregnates her. She doesn't owe him anything. If he doesn't want women he has sex with and impregnates to abort their pregnancies then he should do everything he can not to get her pregnant. He can start by wearing a rubber. He should realize that the ramifications of having sex with a woman and getting her pregnant are that she might choose to abort her pregnancy, hence if he can't handle that fact, he shouldn't have sex with women.

When men and women engage in sexual activity, there are no inherent enforceable contracts or agreements in the action that obligates a woman to remain pregnant for nine months and give birth. That supposed contractual obligation is a figment of your imagination, conjured up by you, and has no weight in court or anywhere else other than in your mind.

 

[Ringo]

People who preach "freedom of choice" do not take into account that in addition to rights, people have duties and one thing is impossible without the other. We all exist today because once many people gave up the advantages of a free life and took upon themselves the reproduction of offspring and the care of it, despite the difficulties associated with this process.. This is our responsibility. Without it, all rights will disappear in a generation, along with the extinct humanity itself.
The state is obliged to act in the interests of all people, although in a class, capitalist society it primarily acts in the interests of the ruling class of capitalists, but capitalists also need new people - workers and consumers. Therefore, the State has the right to demand, that people not interfere with their reproduction and is interested in increasing the number of people. Especially a socialist state. The responsibilities of people to continue life on Earth shall not be infringed, as they said about guns. The right of people to the possibility of existence deserves no less attention.

 

[sartre play]

People who preach "freedom of choice" do not take into account that in addition to rights, people have duties and one thing is impossible without the other. We all exist today because once many people gave up the advantages of a free life and took upon themselves the reproduction of offspring and the care of it, despite the difficulties associated with this process.. This is our responsibility. Without it, all rights will disappear in a generation, along with the extinct humanity itself.
The state is obliged to act in the interests of all people, although in a class, capitalist society it primarily acts in the interests of the ruling class of capitalists, but capitalists also need new people - workers and consumers. Therefore, the State has the right to demand, that people not interfere with their reproduction and is interested in increasing the number of people. Especially a socialist state. The responsibilities of people to continue life on Earth shall not be infringed, as they said about guns. The right of people to the possibility of existence deserves no less attention.

Are you saying there are not enough people being born? or that big business needs more worker bees to keep the pay scale down?

 

[Red Front]

People who preach "freedom of choice" do not take into account that in addition to rights, people have duties and one thing is impossible without the other. We all exist today because once many people gave up the advantages of a free life and took upon themselves the reproduction of offspring and the care of it, despite the difficulties associated with this process.. This is our responsibility. Without it, all rights will disappear in a generation, along with the extinct humanity itself.
The state is obliged to act in the interests of all people, although in a class, capitalist society it primarily acts in the interests of the ruling class of capitalists, but capitalists also need new people - workers and consumers. Therefore, the State has the right to demand, that people not interfere with their reproduction and is interested in increasing the number of people. Especially a socialist state. The responsibilities of people to continue life on Earth shall not be infringed, as they said about guns. The right of people to the possibility of existence deserves no less attention.

Excellent post comrade, you should write a book. Ebook and hardcopy. Amazing content. I believe women and society in general, have an obligation to prioritize the life and welfare of human beings, over an embryo or fetus, at least early in gestation, but I still agree with your notion of having an obligation towards your community, country..etc. The problem with "pro-life" here in America, is that it completely ignores the life and interests of the mother, the actual human being, and prioritizes the life of embryos and fetuses. It does this without really caring about the single mother, who must carry this life in her womb for nine months, give birth, and then raise the child. These capitalist "pro-lifers" just shrug their shoulders and say "too bad" to the woman and demand that she carries the burden of pregnancy and raising a child, without helping her financially or otherwise. If the man isn't in her life and hence not paying child support, she is left with the responsibility and society just says "meh, too bad for you and your child".

Even though you're against a woman's right to get an abortion, that was still an excellent post. It doesn't just apply to abortion but on other issues as well. The people who pretend to be for freedom and liberty don't even feel a civic duty to wear a mask in the middle of a deadly, nationwide pandemic. What you said can also be applied to that and several other issues, that the libertarians love to prop up as "freedom".

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

The man doesn't have ownership rights over a zygote, embryo, or fetus, in a woman's body, because he impregnates her. She doesn't owe him anything. If he doesn't want women he has sex with and impregnates to abort their pregnancies then he should do everything he can not to get her pregnant. He can start by wearing a rubber. He should realize that the ramifications of having sex with a woman and getting her pregnant are that she might choose to abort her pregnancy, hence if he can't handle that fact, he shouldn't have sex with women.

When men and women engage in sexual activity, there are no inherent enforceable contracts or agreements in the action that obligates a woman to remain pregnant for nine months and give birth. That supposed contractual obligation is a figment of your imagination, conjured up by you, and has no weight in court or anywhere else other than in your mind.

It’s his kid. You’re just another arrogant sexist. The choice was made at copulation.

 

[Red Front]

It’s his kid. You’re just another arrogant sexist. The choice was made at copulation.

How was the choice to become a parent made at copulation for both the male and female?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

How was the choice to become a parent made at copulation for both the male and female?

By having sex.

 

[Red Front]

By having sex.

On what grounds do you assert that when a male and female have sex they are automatically by default obligated to become parents if the woman becomes pregnant? What or who makes that so? Is it something inherent in sex, is it the great deity of the volcano, what makes that the case?

 

[Leo123]

But if the government establishes emergency public safety measures in the middle of a deadly pandemic, like requiring everyone to wear a mask in public venues and in crowded areas, that's automatically a violation of your bodily sovereignty, forcing you to wear a mask on your face when you don't want to? The irony.

Forcing women to remain pregnant is OK, even if they lose their jobs, don't have access to healthcare..etc, have to suffer the pains of pregnancy for nine months, all of that is irrelevant to you, but if the government makes you wear a mask in public in the middle of a nationwide, deadly pandemic, you and other conservatives go bonkers.

Yes, you and I at a certain stage in our existence, were single-celled life, then zygotes, then embryos, then an early, undeveloped, fetus, yes yes indeed. We were infants, toddlers, young children, adolescents, young adults, adults, middle-aged..etc. Yes yes yes, that's true. Nonetheless, before I became a "me" or "I", or possessed sentience, personality, identity, and awareness, what existed wasn't actually me. It was the precursor to me, the cause of me, but not me. Got it? A potential me is not me. The woman that conceived the zygote, the embryo, and the fetus, was the actual human being and person, not the zygote, embryo or fetus that eventually became me. My mother had the prerogative not to allow what preceded and caused me, to actualize itself in her body, at her expense. She had sovereignty over the situation, including her body. She chose to allow what preceded me biologically to actualize me. To develop and become a human being, born from her body.

It's up to the woman to decide that, she's the actual human being and member of society, with the human rights and freedom to choose what to do with her pregnancy. especially early in gestation. No one should force women to remain pregnant, if we have the medical technology to eliminate her pregnancy and eliminate the prenatal development and birth of unwanted human beings.

Kill the precursor and you kill the human that would have been. If you were making a cake and got the batter ready go in the oven and someone threw it out, you probably say that person ruined your cake. You probably wouldn't say, 'that's OK it wasn't really a cake anyway.'

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

On what grounds do you assert that when a male and female have sex they are automatically by default obligated to become parents if the woman becomes pregnant? What or who makes that so? Is it something inherent in sex, is it the great deity of the volcano, what makes that the case?

Because they both are aware of the potential consequences. Duh

 

[Red Front]

Kill the precursor and you kill the human that would have been. If you were making a cake and got the batter ready go in the oven and someone threw it out, you probably say that person ruined your cake. You probably wouldn't say, 'that's OK it wasn't really a cake anyway.'

No, I wouldn't say they ruined my cake, they threw away the batter that would've become my cake. They stop me from having a cake, by destroying the batter, but did I have a right to demand a cake in the first place? I know you're using the batter and cake analogy as an illustration, but it's really not the same as what is occurring with a woman ending her pregnancy. The zygote, embryo, or early fetus, will only actualize itself into a human being at the cost, expense, risk, burden, and pain of the woman. Does the zygote, embryo, or early fetus have the right to actualize itself into a human being, irrespective of the cost to the woman? She doesn't have a choice in the matter? Her needs, interests, and prerogatives are superseded, overridden by the supposed needs, interests, and prerogatives of zygotes, embryos, and young fetuses. I personally find that morally irreprehensible.

​

 

[the other mike]

.....
But for the idiot females who get pregnant just to have an abortion for the sake of it.

Never happened.

You deserve the death penalty IMO.

This will make you very popular around here.

Do you agree that rapists should be castrated
and what about child molesters ?

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Does the zygote, embryo, or early fetus have the right to actualize itself into a human being, irrespective of the cost to the woman? She doesn't have a choice in the matter? Her needs, interests, and prerogatives are superseded, overridden by the supposed needs, interests, and prerogatives of zygotes, embryos, and young fetuses. I personally find that morally irreprehensible.

Yes, yes you find equality, respecting human rights, honesty, and scientific fact to be reprehensible.

 

[miketx]

Why doesn't the baby have a choice?

 

[miketx]

Never happened.

This will make you very popular around here.

Do you agree that rapists should be castrated
and what about child molesters ?

No, rapists should be killed. Child molesters too.

 

[the other mike]

No, rapists should be killed. Child molesters too.

Yeah child molesters are pretty f***** up I almost wanted to work for the FBI to go after those sickos.

 

[sartre play]

Of course there's a thing "my body my choice" you can read about it every where every day. You don't have to like it but you cant just deny that it exists just because you don't like it.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Of course there's a thing "my body my choice" you can read about it every where every day. You don't have to like it but you cant just deny that it exists just because you don't like it.

There’s also “someone else’s body, not my choice”.

 

[hadit]

WHY is it that when it comes to sex Everything is the woman's fault or responsibility? See any rules or laws where men who impregnate have some consequence attached to there body?

Sure do. Ever hear of a man forced to pay child support until his child is an adult? The term deadbeat father? They have to put their body to work in order to pay for their child, for 18 years.