The zionists do NOT speak for the Jewish people and antizionism is NOT antisemitism.

[rylah]

Abi, since You've mentioned Jewish scholars,
should we discuss Nahmonides or Hafetz Chaim in relation to Zionism?

 

[abi]

Zionism is a political movement

That might be the first thing you have nailed on this thread, thank-you.

Less than 10% of these Jewish Studies scholars signed it.

You're deflecting and if it is 10%, 100% or 1%, this proves the point that the zionists can not speak for the Jewish people.

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth.”

― Mahatma Gandhi

 

[rylah]

Zionism is a political movement

That might be the first thing you have nailed on this thread, thank-you.

Less than 10% of these Jewish Studies scholars signed it.

You're deflecting and if it is 10%, 100% or 1%, this proves the point that the zionists can not speak for the Jewish people.

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth.”

― Mahatma Gandhi

Who's Ghandi, a rabbi?
Not in Judaism.

Using Your "logic" no president can ever speak for his nation. NEVER. This is a logic fallacy.
No American president can speak for US citizens if there's opposition?
Or any other representative in any society?

abi, You have a twisted totalitarian view on societies.

 

[abi]

Who's Ghandi, a rabbi?
Not in Judaism.

So, he is discussing simple truth and not Judaism.






From another thread, rylah, unbeknownst to himself, has illuminated our point beautifully.

Oh was I waiting for that opportunity...
Let me give You the MISSING LINK:

Yehuda Bivas

Rabbi Yehuda Aryeh Leon Bibas (circa 1789-1859 ) was a Sephardic rabbi , rabbi of the Corfu community, apreacher of Zionism , an arbiter and Kabbalist , with an academic degree and broad general education, traveling And is connected to the world. [2]

As far as is known, he preceded political Zionism in his world view and proposals. He called upon the people of Israel to stop the passive expectation of redemption and to do something to bring them closer. In his view, as expressed by his disciple Rabbi Yehuda Alkalai , the general answer required before redemption is specifically the aliyah to Eretz Israel and the settlement there. Inspired by the Greek War of Independence , Bibas wrote that the Jews should train weapons such as the Greeks and conquer the Land of Israel from the Ottoman Empire inorder to establish their state. [3] His bold call for arms was innovative for its time and preceded the teachings of the other forerunners of Zionism . At the end of his life, Rabbi Bivas immigrated to Eretz Israel and lived in Hebron .

Google Translate

This guy was a zionist. One of the first in fact, joining with the gentiles who had already been pushing the idea of settling Europeans in Palestine and establishing a zionist regime.

Zionist Activism
By the years 1839-1840, Bibas undertook a journey in Europe. While visiting many Jewish Communities, he called upon the Jews to make Aliyah to Palestine and settle there. He was one of the first Rabbis to do so.....
Yehuda Bibas - Wikipedia

Remember, prior to these zionists who turned millennia of Judaism upside down, Judaism never believed in taking land in war.

 

[rylah]

Who's Ghandi, a rabbi?
Not in Judaism.

So, he is discussing simple truth and not Judaism.






From another thread, rylah, unbeknownst to himself, has illuminated our point beautifully.

Oh was I waiting for that opportunity...
Let me give You the MISSING LINK:

Yehuda Bivas

Rabbi Yehuda Aryeh Leon Bibas (circa 1789-1859 ) was a Sephardic rabbi , rabbi of the Corfu community, apreacher of Zionism , an arbiter and Kabbalist , with an academic degree and broad general education, traveling And is connected to the world. [2]

As far as is known, he preceded political Zionism in his world view and proposals. He called upon the people of Israel to stop the passive expectation of redemption and to do something to bring them closer. In his view, as expressed by his disciple Rabbi Yehuda Alkalai , the general answer required before redemption is specifically the aliyah to Eretz Israel and the settlement there. Inspired by the Greek War of Independence , Bibas wrote that the Jews should train weapons such as the Greeks and conquer the Land of Israel from the Ottoman Empire inorder to establish their state. [3] His bold call for arms was innovative for its time and preceded the teachings of the other forerunners of Zionism . At the end of his life, Rabbi Bivas immigrated to Eretz Israel and lived in Hebron .
qq
Google Translate

This guy was a zionist. One of the first in fact, joining with the gentiles who had already been pushing the idea of settling Europeans in Palestine and establishing a zionist regime.

Zionist Activism
By the years 1839-1840, Bibas undertook a journey in Europe. While visiting many Jewish Communities, he called upon the Jews to make Aliyah to Palestine and settle there. He was one of the first Rabbis to do so.....
Yehuda Bibas - Wikipedia

Remember, prior to these zionists who turned millennia of Judaism upside down, Judaism never believed in taking land in war.

Go look at my next post in the original thread that was op it was posted just 2 min ago.
The only one making A MESS HERE is You abi - You can't discuss anything,and make this "salad of threads".

I didn't come here to talk about Indian activists too.

 

[abi]

I saw it over there and had no idea why. And I did not see where the rabbi said that God wanted us to return by force which is why I thought it wasn't over here.

 

[rylah]

I saw it over there and had no idea why. And I did not see where the rabbi said that God wanted us to return by force which is why I thought it wasn't over here.

What a mess
Go respond there.

 

[abi]

What a mess
Go respond there.

It has nothing to do with that topic or this.

See for yourself:

Rabbi Chaim Ben Attar

Rabbi Chaim ben Attar (or Aben Atar, known as Or HaChaim or Or HaChaim, after his book, 1696, He was one of the greatest commentators of the Bible in the last few years, a commentator on the Talmud, a Kabbalist and a halakhic authority.
Rabbi Chaim Ben Attar lived in Morocco for most of his life. During this period he was known mainly among Moroccan Jews. When he was forty-three, he immigrated to Eretz Israel with his two wives and a group of students who planned to establish a yeshiva in the Land of Israel, while calling upon the Jews he met on his way to join them. On his journey to Palestine, he passed through Italy, where he printed his books that gave him his name throughout the entire Jewish Diaspora, including the European one. After a period of wandering in northern Israel, he settled in Jerusalem where he established his yeshiva, Midrash Knesset Yisrael. Died about a year after his arrival in Jerusalem, in the summer of 1743, at the age of 47.

Rabbi Chaim ben Attar

I did not see where the rabbi said that God wanted us to return by force which is why I thought it wasn't over here.

 

[rylah]

Ok, actually if You want let's say that it's
my legal right to live or immigrate where ever I want in Israel, or AT LEAST in Judea.

As many Hassidic rabbis suggested and organized at the time.
From Lubavitche rabbis and Gaon of Vilna to Rabbi Haim ben Attar.

TORAH, ORGANIZATION, COMMUNITY,

 

[admonit]

Zionism is a political movement

A political movement is a social group in a social society that operates together to obtain a political goal.
Zionism was a national Jewish movement designed to obtain a national goal - an independent Jewish state. This goal was achieved.

 

[Linkiloo]

Abis is a Jew ....as if. He doesn't understand basic concepts like varying interpretations and posts quotes found on anti-semitic sites, unable to analyse them. He says the zionists don't speak for the jews but a majority does and quotes Gandhi. LOL I guess he doesn't believe in the majority speaking for the.... majority. Pretty radical.

Luckily we have Abi because he obvously highly respects louis

 

[Roudy]

"Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‎ Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people"
Of course the national movement of the Jewish people has nothing to do with the Jewish people.

Correct, the zionists can claim to be Martians, but that does not make it so. Bush claimed to be a Christian, didn't make it so.

I could literally post quotes from our rabbis, day after day, illuminating the concept that the zionists can not speak for the Jewish people and I might never run out of material.

Abi, I am attacking the messenger's message. Forgive me for my posts that seem to attack you. Forgive me.

Okay.

But I will also say that there is no way that I will be convinced that .1% of Jews speak for all.

Learn to differentiate between what traditional Jews believed for thousands of years and how the zionists behave. If the behavior is diametrically opposed to what Jews believed for millennia, that in itself is proof enough.

I realize that you pretty much consider that any Jew that lives in Israel and/or supports Israel is actually a 'Zionist' and therefore not to be called a Jew

Not true. Many Jews within Israel are not even zionists. I posted two examples above. I can post several more.

As a matter of fact, would you be so kind as to translate this historic document for us?

Now go study!

And yet, every synagogue in the US I've been to has a US and Israeli flag in inside. Go figure. LOL

 

[Roudy]

Abis is a Jew ....as if. He doesn't understand basic concepts like varying interpretations and posts quotes found on anti-semitic sites, unable to analyse them. He says the zionists don't speak for the jews but a majority does and quotes Gandhi. LOL I guess he doesn't believe in the majority speaking for the.... majority. Pretty radical.

Luckily we have Abi because he obvously highly respects louis

Jews are not excluded from mental illness, as we can clearly see.

 

[Linkiloo]

Abis is a Jew ....as if. He doesn't understand basic concepts like varying interpretations and posts quotes found on anti-semitic sites, unable to analyse them. He says the zionists don't speak for the jews but a majority does and quotes Gandhi. LOL I guess he doesn't believe in the majority speaking for the.... majority. Pretty radical.

Luckily we have Abi because he obvously highly respects louis

Jews are not excluded from mental illness, as we can clearly see.

Yeah antisemites often are "Jews" except when it is apparent that they don't know the first thing about judaism and are copying and pasting quotes from anti-semitic sites.

 

[abi]

Yeah antisemites often are "Jews" except when it is apparent that they don't know the first thing about judaism and are copying and pasting quotes from anti-semitic sites.

Nobody did that and every quote I have posted can be verified by you from Jewish sources. I have posted some directly from the bible as well. Please feel free to refute facts, but these baseless charges do nothing to make your point.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Conflating Zionism and Judaism leaves Jewish students exposed
‘Israelism’ has replaced traditional Jewish identity, making it difficult for Jewish students to distinguish between divergent political views and attacks on their identities.

This vicarious “Israelism” has replaced the traditional Jewish identity — a shift that has been all the easier given the less demanding nature of the new identity. Since traditional Jewish identity is founded upon obedience to the Torah and to the precepts that it imposes, it impinges both on the private domain, such as food and intimate relations, and public conduct, including strict requirements of ethical behavior. Judaism articulates hundreds of ritual and moral duties. At the same time, Israelism carries with it no particular morality, no prohibition against oppressing the powerless, that the Torah repeatedly articulates. It breaks cleanly with the traditional ways of being Jewish.

Conflating Zionism and Judaism leaves Jewish students exposed | +972 Magazine

 

[GHook93]

The scholars, therefore, see the US declaration as an endorsement of sole Jewish proprietorship over Jerusalem, “practically guaranteed to fan the flames of violence.”
US Jewish Studies scholars sign petition against Jerusalem declaration

Nice source! You are just one big dishonest red herring. The vast amount of Jews applauded this move


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[fanger]

The scholars, therefore, see the US declaration as an endorsement of sole Jewish proprietorship over Jerusalem, “practically guaranteed to fan the flames of violence.”
US Jewish Studies scholars sign petition against Jerusalem declaration

Nice source! You are just one big dishonest red herring. The vast amount of Jews applauded this move

the source is

 

[rylah]

The scholars, therefore, see the US declaration as an endorsement of sole Jewish proprietorship over Jerusalem, “practically guaranteed to fan the flames of violence.”
US Jewish Studies scholars sign petition against Jerusalem declaration

Nice source! You are just one big dishonest red herring. The vast amount of Jews applauded this move

the source is

So?
Less than 10% of these scholars signed the petition.
The overwhelming majority didn't.

 

[abi]

This really has to come over here.

The representative of Iranian Jewish minority at the Iranian Parliament says US President Donald Trump has opened a new chapter in the book of obscenity by recognizing Jerusalem al-Quds as the capital of the Israeli regime.
Iranian Jewish MP Blasts Trump Decision on Jerusalem

And here we are thinking Iran is the devil for Jews, weird.