The zionists do NOT speak for the Jewish people and antizionism is NOT antisemitism.

[abi]

Lipush brought up a point on another thread that I feel needs to be addressed here and now. With chaos erupting across the 2+ billion Muslim world and with condemnation of Trump's insane move coming from all over the planet including our allies, the Jewish people are at great risk and they have nothing to do with this. Some Jews, yes, but all of this and all the blood that follows will be on the hands of the zionists, not the Jewish people.

Many Jews are not Zionist.

Iv'e never heard of any Jew who rejects Jerusalem.

File this under: Live and Learn

We Jews, who believe in the A-lmighty and his Torah and do not recognize the legitimacy of the Zionist entity, have come here to express the clear opposition of the authentic Jewish People to the abhorrence of Zionism and our absolute sympathy with the inhabitants of Jerusalem, whether Muslim, Christian or Jewish. So as to declare unshakably, our total opposition to the Zionist occupation of Jerusalem, and to express the tremendous importance we attach to the hoped for ending of the harsh Zionist occupation of the Palestinian land, the holy land, and especially the holy city of Jerusalem....
International Conference on Jerusalem

Neturei Karta are Moisers.

That being said, let me ask you a hypothetical question.

Those people, Neturei Karta, who're about 0.00002% of the Jewish community, reject the idea of a Zionist take over over Israel. To each their own opinion.

They reject that idea simply because the Messiah has yet to show. They would have accepted a Jewish state once the Messiah is here and a Temple is an issue.

Now, let's say tommorow a Jew shows up, claiming to be the Messiah. Let's say Neturei Karta believe him. In case this man suddenly cries out the Arabs are to be expelled since they have no connection to the city, who do you think will be the firsts to haunt the Arabs down and carry the deed?

Claiming Neturei Karta are about 0.00002% of the Jewish community is false and deceptive. While they are not a large group compared to some, that figure is a lie and more importantly, they are a mouthpiece for traditional Jews all over the world. This includes in Israel:

Inspired by militant anti-Zionist ideology, it refuses to receive any state funding from the Israeli authorities or to endorse voting in the elections, relying on donations from fellow anti-Zionist ultra-Orthodox Jews abroad and its own income....
Edah HaChareidis - Wikipedia

And they are not even all traditional Jews who oppose zionism in Israel:
THE ISRAELI ‘REFUZNIKS’ …. WHO ARE THEY?

And there are so many more:

CRC; in Hebrew: Hisachdus HaRabbonim DeArtzos HaBris VeCanada התאחדות הרבנים) is a rabbinical organization that is a consortium of various Orthodox Jewish groups including the Satmar Hasidic group.[1] It also provides kosher food certification, and is well known for being strongly anti-Zionist....
Central Rabbinical Congress - Wikipedia

I have asked several times to see verified quotes from any rabbi or any Jewish authority for that matter, prior to zionism, who even suggested taking land by force. I am done holding my breath. There are none. Judaism is diametrically opposed to zionism.

Leave the Jewish people alone and out of these discussions. It is only a trick used by zionist propagandists to elicit support from the most uneducated Jews and Christians for their nonstop criminal behavior.

 

[AsianTrumpSupporter]

Israel backs Hungary, says financier Soros is a threat

 

[JakeStarkey]

abi's false commentary on Judaism and Zionism is . . . false.

The State of Israel speaks for the Jews of the world as well as for Israel.

 

[abi]

And concerning Jerusalem, let's rewind to the International Conference on Jerusalem which was held on 26-27 February 2012. Rabbis from the United States, Great Britain, and Canada traveled to Qatar and stated:

We Jews, who believe in the A-lmighty and his Torah and do not recognize the legitimacy of the Zionist entity, have come here to express the clear opposition of the authentic Jewish People to the abhorrence of Zionism and our absolute sympathy with the inhabitants of Jerusalem, whether Muslim, Christian or Jewish. So as to declare unshakably, our total opposition to the Zionist occupation of Jerusalem, and to express the tremendous importance we attach to the hoped for ending of the harsh Zionist occupation of the Palestinian land, the holy land, and especially the holy city of Jerusalem....

Our rabbis continue:

We declare!!! Enough Zionist terror! Enough cruel occupation! Enough murder and cruelty against our Palestinian and Jewish brothers! Enough suffering by our Palestinian and Jewish brothers!


We must make it clear that Zionism is a tragedy for all of humanity, and is the true Holocaust of the entire Jewish people. The Zionists are the true anti-Semites.


We bless all participants in the conference, with success in all their endeavors to bring to an end the unfortunate occupation of Al-Quds and Palestine, so should be the wish of the A-lmighty


I would like to take the opportunity of this royal gathering to bless His Majesty Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa Al-thani, in my name and in the name of the Jewish Rabbis from around the world who are here with us today to represent the Jewish people, with the blessing that Jewish law commands us to recite when seeing the Ruler of a land. This is a once-in-a-lifetime privilege for me.


Blessed are You, L-rd our G-d, King of the universe, who has given some of His glory to a human being.


It is my great honor to extend my hand to His Majesty and give him my personal blessing.

International Conference on Jerusalem

Now go study!

 

[teddyearp]

You are really melting down lately. I suggest you go study some REAL history.

 

[abi]

Really?

You are really melting down lately. I suggest you go study some REAL history.

If there was even a single historical inaccuracy in anything that I have posted, not only you, but your entire team would be in here pointing it out. I am 100% accurate when I state that the zionists do NOT speak for the Jewish people and antizionism is NOT antisemitism.

You might wish to throw the Jewish people under a bus for the sake of your beloved Israel, but continually trying to equate the zionists and their behavior with the Jewish people is dangerous and irresponsible.

 

[Hollie]

Really?

You are really melting down lately. I suggest you go study some REAL history.

If there was even a single historical inaccuracy in anything that I have posted, not only you, but your entire team would be in here pointing it out. I am 100% accurate when I state that the zionists do NOT speak for the Jewish people and antizionism is NOT antisemitism.

You might wish to throw the Jewish people under a bus for the sake of your beloved Israel, but continually trying to equate the zionists and their behavior with the Jewish people is dangerous and irresponsible.

"...... because I say so".

Come on, Louie. How many more accounts have you opened?

 

[teddyearp]

Really?

You are really melting down lately. I suggest you go study some REAL history.

If there was even a single historical inaccuracy in anything that I have posted, not only you, but your entire team would be in here pointing it out. I am 100% accurate when I state that the zionists do NOT speak for the Jewish people and antizionism is NOT antisemitism.

You might wish to throw the Jewish people under a bus for the sake of your beloved Israel, but continually trying to equate the zionists and their behavior with the Jewish people is dangerous and irresponsible.

"...... because I say so".

Come on, Louie. How many more accounts have you opened?

No shit, right?

"Taken by force", haha.

 

[abi]

I will address this once. I have read many threads, including Louie's. It is obvious why you people hate the guy, but he was right on many things and this is one of them.

Teddy, Holly, you are attacking the messenger. Your problem is not with me and it is not with Louie. Feel free to take this up with Edah HaChareidis, the refuzniks in Israel, and the Central Rabbinical Congress. There are many Jews from all over the world who are not zionists that you can lash out at as well.

Need more?

For over two thousand years the Jewish people accepted their exile as a Divine decree. Jews never attempted a rebellion against their host nations or other peoples. There were no plans or efforts ever made to wrest the Holy Land from its rulers or inhabitants at any point in the long history of Jewish exile....

Zionism represents a total and radical break with the beliefs and practices of the Jewish people throughout history.

--Central Rabbinical Congress of the U.S.A. & Canada
Established in 1952, is a worldwide organization representing over 150 orthodox communities - The New York Times, Sunday, February 11, 2001

 

[Hollie]

I will address this once. I have read many threads, including Louie's. It is obvious why you people hate the guy, but he was right on many things and this is one of them.

Teddy, Holly, you are attacking the messenger. Your problem is not with me and it is not with Louie. Feel free to take this up with Edah HaChareidis, the refuzniks in Israel, and the Central Rabbinical Congress. There are many Jews from all over the world who are not zionists that you can lash out at as well.

Need more?

For over two thousand years the Jewish people accepted their exile as a Divine decree. Jews never attempted a rebellion against their host nations or other peoples. There were no plans or efforts ever made to wrest the Holy Land from its rulers or inhabitants at any point in the long history of Jewish exile....

Zionism represents a total and radical break with the beliefs and practices of the Jewish people throughout history.

--Central Rabbinical Congress of the U.S.A. & Canada
Established in 1952, is a worldwide organization representing over 150 orthodox communities - The New York Times, Sunday, February 11, 2001

This would be a good time to launch into a tirade with regard to the NK. Those are always entertaining.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No one of sentiment or intellect, abi, about Jewish matters will be educated by the likes of you.

 

[Roudy]

Lipush brought up a point on another thread that I feel needs to be addressed here and now. With chaos erupting across the 2+ billion Muslim world and with condemnation of Trump's insane move coming from all over the planet including our allies, the Jewish people are at great risk and they have nothing to do with this. Some Jews, yes, but all of this and all the blood that follows will be on the hands of the zionists, not the Jewish people.

Many Jews are not Zionist.

Iv'e never heard of any Jew who rejects Jerusalem.

File this under: Live and Learn

We Jews, who believe in the A-lmighty and his Torah and do not recognize the legitimacy of the Zionist entity, have come here to express the clear opposition of the authentic Jewish People to the abhorrence of Zionism and our absolute sympathy with the inhabitants of Jerusalem, whether Muslim, Christian or Jewish. So as to declare unshakably, our total opposition to the Zionist occupation of Jerusalem, and to express the tremendous importance we attach to the hoped for ending of the harsh Zionist occupation of the Palestinian land, the holy land, and especially the holy city of Jerusalem....
International Conference on Jerusalem

Neturei Karta are Moisers.

That being said, let me ask you a hypothetical question.

Those people, Neturei Karta, who're about 0.00002% of the Jewish community, reject the idea of a Zionist take over over Israel. To each their own opinion.

They reject that idea simply because the Messiah has yet to show. They would have accepted a Jewish state once the Messiah is here and a Temple is an issue.

Now, let's say tommorow a Jew shows up, claiming to be the Messiah. Let's say Neturei Karta believe him. In case this man suddenly cries out the Arabs are to be expelled since they have no connection to the city, who do you think will be the firsts to haunt the Arabs down and carry the deed?

Claiming Neturei Karta are about 0.00002% of the Jewish community is false and deceptive. While they are not a large group compared to some, that figure is a lie and more importantly, they are a mouthpiece for traditional Jews all over the world. This includes in Israel:

Inspired by militant anti-Zionist ideology, it refuses to receive any state funding from the Israeli authorities or to endorse voting in the elections, relying on donations from fellow anti-Zionist ultra-Orthodox Jews abroad and its own income....
Edah HaChareidis - Wikipedia

And they are not even all traditional Jews who oppose zionism in Israel:
THE ISRAELI ‘REFUZNIKS’ …. WHO ARE THEY?

And there are so many more:

CRC; in Hebrew: Hisachdus HaRabbonim DeArtzos HaBris VeCanada התאחדות הרבנים) is a rabbinical organization that is a consortium of various Orthodox Jewish groups including the Satmar Hasidic group.[1] It also provides kosher food certification, and is well known for being strongly anti-Zionist....
Central Rabbinical Congress - Wikipedia

I have asked several times to see verified quotes from any rabbi or any Jewish authority for that matter, prior to zionism, who even suggested taking land by force. I am done holding my breath. There are none. Judaism is diametrically opposed to zionism.

Leave the Jewish people alone and out of these discussions. It is only a trick used by zionist propagandists to elicit support from the most uneducated Jews and Christians for their nonstop criminal behavior.

Is this IslamoNazi loving idiot again claiming that this stupid cult comprising less than .000000001% of Jewish population speaks for what Jews believe and what Judaism stands for? Ya gotta love it! Ha ha ha.

 

[teddyearp]

Abi, I am attacking the messenger's message. Forgive me for my posts that seem to attack you. Forgive me.

But I will also say that there is no way that I will be convinced that .1% of Jews speak for all.

I realize that you pretty much consider that any Jew that lives in Israel and/or supports Israel is actually a 'Zionist' and therefore not to be called a Jew and that is why you can claim what you do; I.e. the percentage is more.

 

[admonit]

"Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‎ Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people"
Of course the national movement of the Jewish people has nothing to do with the Jewish people.

 

[abi]

"Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‎ Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people"
Of course the national movement of the Jewish people has nothing to do with the Jewish people.

Correct, the zionists can claim to be Martians, but that does not make it so. Bush claimed to be a Christian, didn't make it so.

I could literally post quotes from our rabbis, day after day, illuminating the concept that the zionists can not speak for the Jewish people and I might never run out of material.

Abi, I am attacking the messenger's message. Forgive me for my posts that seem to attack you. Forgive me.

Okay.

But I will also say that there is no way that I will be convinced that .1% of Jews speak for all.

Learn to differentiate between what traditional Jews believed for thousands of years and how the zionists behave. If the behavior is diametrically opposed to what Jews believed for millennia, that in itself is proof enough.

I realize that you pretty much consider that any Jew that lives in Israel and/or supports Israel is actually a 'Zionist' and therefore not to be called a Jew

Not true. Many Jews within Israel are not even zionists. I posted two examples above. I can post several more.

As a matter of fact, would you be so kind as to translate this historic document for us?

Now go study!

 

[rylah]

"Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‎ Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people"
Of course the national movement of the Jewish people has nothing to do with the Jewish people.

Correct, the zionists can claim to be Martians, but that does not make it so. Bush claimed to be a Christian, didn't make it so.

I could literally post quotes from our rabbis, day after day, illuminating the concept that the zionists can not speak for the Jewish people and I might never run out of material.

Abi, I am attacking the messenger's message. Forgive me for my posts that seem to attack you. Forgive me.

Okay.

But I will also say that there is no way that I will be convinced that .1% of Jews speak for all.

Learn to differentiate between what traditional Jews believed for thousands of years and how the zionists behave. If the behavior is diametrically opposed to what Jews believed for millennia, that in itself is proof enough.

I realize that you pretty much consider that any Jew that lives in Israel and/or supports Israel is actually a 'Zionist' and therefore not to be called a Jew

Not true. Many Jews within Israel are not even zionists. I posted two examples above. I can post several more.

As a matter of fact, would you be so kind as to translate this historic document for us?

Now go study!

Do YOU know what it actually says abi?
This deals with the holiness of Jerusalem to Jews.
Nothing new written in there.

Go and learn.

 

[abi]

Do YOU know what it actually says abi?
This deals with the holiness of Jerusalem to Jews.

Ha, you pretended it said something to meet your bias. Foreveryoung did this on another thread. I know it discusses our commandment not to provoke the other nations and not to take for ourselves sovereignty and a government before the redemption.

They wrote that because that is what Judaism taught for millennia.

 

[rylah]

How about Moses Our Rabbi, is he respected enough?
Maimonides, Nahmonides....Josef Babed, Halel Ben-Elyakim

After searching myself, I have come up with nothing relevant from Moses, Nahmonides, Josef Babed or Halel Ben-Elyakim.

This is what I found from Maimonides that speaks to this topic:

The messiah will gather in the Jews from exile. Whoever does not believe in him is denying the Torah, which says (Deuteronomy 30:3), “The L-rd your G-d will restore your exiles and have mercy on you.” (Laws of Kings 11:1)

Apparently, Maimonides did not say what you thought he said. He actually said just the opposite. He is saying what traditional Jews have believed for millennia which only serves to further illustrate my point.

Maybe later today...there's a ton of information

I am waiting patiently still and request you bring this over to this thread if you wish to continue.

The zionists do NOT speak for the Jewish people and antizionism is NOT antisemitism.

Thanks.

To answer Your question about "whether any respected Jewish rabbi ever talked about taking the land by force?", I gave You a list of rabbis who dealt with the specific question in details - to which You proceeded with partially (for obvious reason) quoting one sentence from the most anti-Zionist extreme group.

1. You don't understand Maimonides' quote or how it applies to Religious Zionists, who are still holding this belief as central, waiting for G-d'd redemption and in-gathering of ALL Israel...this is at the heart of most religious movements in Israel Zionist or not.

2. Wars of Commandment according to Rambam (Maimonides):
אין המלך נלחם תחילה, אלא על מלחמת מצוה. ואיזו היא מלחמת מצוה--זו מלחמת שבעה עממים, ומלחמת עמלק, ועזרת ישראל מצר שבא עליהם. ואחר כך נלחם במלחמת הרשות--והיא המלחמה שנלחם עם שאר העמים, כדי להרחיב גבול ישראל ולהרבות בגדולתו ושמעו.


"The king does not fight at first, but rather war of mitzva. And what is the war of mitzva - this is the war of seven nations, and the war against Amalek, and to help Israel when trouble comes upon them. And then fought in the premission war - which is the war that fought with the other nations, in order to expand the border of Israel and to increase its greatness and hear"
(Laws of Kings and Wars 5:1)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Should we proceed with Nahmonides, was he respected enough?

 

[GHook93]

Lipush brought up a point on another thread that I feel needs to be addressed here and now. With chaos erupting across the 2+ billion Muslim world and with condemnation of Trump's insane move coming from all over the planet including our allies, the Jewish people are at great risk and they have nothing to do with this. Some Jews, yes, but all of this and all the blood that follows will be on the hands of the zionists, not the Jewish people.

Many Jews are not Zionist.

Iv'e never heard of any Jew who rejects Jerusalem.

File this under: Live and Learn

We Jews, who believe in the A-lmighty and his Torah and do not recognize the legitimacy of the Zionist entity, have come here to express the clear opposition of the authentic Jewish People to the abhorrence of Zionism and our absolute sympathy with the inhabitants of Jerusalem, whether Muslim, Christian or Jewish. So as to declare unshakably, our total opposition to the Zionist occupation of Jerusalem, and to express the tremendous importance we attach to the hoped for ending of the harsh Zionist occupation of the Palestinian land, the holy land, and especially the holy city of Jerusalem....
International Conference on Jerusalem

Neturei Karta are Moisers.

That being said, let me ask you a hypothetical question.

Those people, Neturei Karta, who're about 0.00002% of the Jewish community, reject the idea of a Zionist take over over Israel. To each their own opinion.

They reject that idea simply because the Messiah has yet to show. They would have accepted a Jewish state once the Messiah is here and a Temple is an issue.

Now, let's say tommorow a Jew shows up, claiming to be the Messiah. Let's say Neturei Karta believe him. In case this man suddenly cries out the Arabs are to be expelled since they have no connection to the city, who do you think will be the firsts to haunt the Arabs down and carry the deed?

Claiming Neturei Karta are about 0.00002% of the Jewish community is false and deceptive. While they are not a large group compared to some, that figure is a lie and more importantly, they are a mouthpiece for traditional Jews all over the world. This includes in Israel:

Inspired by militant anti-Zionist ideology, it refuses to receive any state funding from the Israeli authorities or to endorse voting in the elections, relying on donations from fellow anti-Zionist ultra-Orthodox Jews abroad and its own income....
Edah HaChareidis - Wikipedia

And they are not even all traditional Jews who oppose zionism in Israel:
THE ISRAELI ‘REFUZNIKS’ …. WHO ARE THEY?

And there are so many more:

CRC; in Hebrew: Hisachdus HaRabbonim DeArtzos HaBris VeCanada התאחדות הרבנים) is a rabbinical organization that is a consortium of various Orthodox Jewish groups including the Satmar Hasidic group.[1] It also provides kosher food certification, and is well known for being strongly anti-Zionist....
Central Rabbinical Congress - Wikipedia

I have asked several times to see verified quotes from any rabbi or any Jewish authority for that matter, prior to zionism, who even suggested taking land by force. I am done holding my breath. There are none. Judaism is diametrically opposed to zionism.

Leave the Jewish people alone and out of these discussions. It is only a trick used by zionist propagandists to elicit support from the most uneducated Jews and Christians for their nonstop criminal behavior.

Oh STFU you Muslim C.un.t! Just as true Muslims are followers of Sharia. True Jews are Zionist. Leftist who claim to be Jews pray to liberalism. That is their religion.

And anti-Zionism is just a PC form of anti-semtisim


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[abi]

Please don't type inside my quote. And I was right about what was said above, yes? It discusses our commandment not to provoke the other nations and not to take for ourselves sovereignty and a government before the redemption, right? Be truthful.

I have seen only one time in our history where a rabbi went against this notion, and sadly, you haven't even found that one.

Btw, your Maimonides quote has nothing to do with taking land (especially the holy land) by force. This is what Maimonides said in that respect:

The messiah will gather in the Jews from exile. Whoever does not believe in him is denying the Torah, which says (Deuteronomy 30:3), “The L-rd your G-d will restore your exiles and have mercy on you.” (Laws of Kings 11:1)
--Maimonides (1135-1204)

Now go study.