shockedcanadian
Diamond Member
- Aug 6, 2012
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In fairness, I believe they successfully intercepted 30 last night. I dont know if that meant 30 out of 100 or 30 in a row but European news was reporting this.
”The West” has backed itself into a corner over Ukraine
luiza
Diamond Member
Talking out of your hat as per usual.
Exactly the opposite is true .
The US , let alone Kyiv, cannot believe how inventive the Russians are in this area .
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
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Then why is Russia using Soviet era tanks?
Why has their Navy been driven out of the Black Sea?
GLASNOST
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #44
You really do have no idea what you are talking about. Who wants to make Ukraine come to the negotiating table? You've been lied to. Putin gave Zoolinsky a chance to negotiate (the Minsk Agreement) and Zooky agreed but the Yankees and Brits put the kibash on it so the agreement was off. Putin is making them pay for it and now he doesn't want any negotiation. Any peace now will be on Putin's terms - no bartering.
Ringo
Gold Member
10 yrs old Ringo
so, do those same Ukrainians really care about who governs them NOW ?
~S~
- Sep 16, 2012
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Russia Surprised Kiev With New Attacks
November 15, 2024
Russia Surprised Kiev With New Attacks
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maps.southfront.press
Surprising alliance of Donald Trump, Viktor Orban and Pope Francis that could derail support for Ukraine
Exclusive: The Pope has shown backing for Hungary’s so-called ‘peace deal’ between Kyiv and Moscow – while Trump’s election puts US aid at risk
How surprising alliance of Trump, Orban and Pope could force Ukraine into Putin deal
Exclusive: The Pope has shown backing for Hungary’s so-called ‘peace deal’ between Kyiv and Moscow – while Trump’s election puts US aid at risk
www.independent.co.uk
How surprising alliance of Trump, Orban and Pope could force Ukraine into Putin deal
Exclusive: The Pope has shown backing for Hungary’s so-called ‘peace deal’ between Kyiv and Moscow – while Trump’s election puts US aid at risk
www.independent.co.uk
justoffal
Diamond Member
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There's a lot of dead Russians..... I'd say Russia is pretty pissed off right now.
justoffal
Diamond Member
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Well there ya go.... The constant cry that nobody was trying to genocide the Russian nationals in that province is complete baloney.
Jo
ESay
Gold Member
- Mar 14, 2015
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It never left it, in all fairness.
- Sep 16, 2012
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Ukraine: Over 6 Million Refugees Spread Across Europe
Ukraine: Over 6 Million Refugees Spread Across Europe
No fewer than 6.168 million Ukrainian refugees were registered across Europe by the end of July 2024, according to UNHCR
unric.org
I don't think peace will be achieved unless the west recognizes the wishes of those who live/lived in the Donbas & Russia's security concerns. Our elites have admitted that this is a proxy war, so it is clear they don't give two craps about the people of Ukraine.
How the United States Drove Russia to Invade Ukraine and the Potential Consequences
August 2, 2024How the United States Drove Russia to Invade Ukraine and the Potential Consequences - CovertAction Magazine
The Cold War did not end for the United States with the collapse of the Soviet Union. Instead, the United States set out on a systematic 30-plus year effort to undermine, humiliate and threaten the Russian state. This has ultimately led to the tragedy of the war in Ukraine. Of course this is...
covertactionmagazine.com
". . . Nuland is married to Robert Kagan, a close associate of Paul Wolfowitz. We have come full circle.
What followed in Ukraine was the outlawing of both the Russian language and any political parties not partial to the new regime in Kyiv. Then in May 2014 a peaceful protest in Odessa was broken up by a mob and 30-40 Russian speakers were burned to death in a trade union building. An eight-year civil war ensued in the Donbass, leaving 15,000-18,000 dead, primarily in the Donbass. . . . "
<snip>
". . . Sun Tzu was a Chinese military general, strategist and philosopher who lived approximately 2,500 years ago. He was the author of “The Art of War,”[30] a highly respected text that is taught at West Point and Sandhurst. One of Sun Tzu’s more famous observations was that:
- If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles
- If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat
- If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle
The United States has placed itself firmly in the third category by refusing to accept Russia’s legitimate security concerns, as well as operating as if the United States has the power to dictate the affairs of other nations.
It would have been better to have heeded Sun Tzu’s recommendation, which would be to “Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across.”
Seems Ukraine was a done deal 2500 yrs ago Mr B ~S~View attachment 1042956
Ukraine: Over 6 Million Refugees Spread Across Europe
Ukraine: Over 6 Million Refugees Spread Across Europe
No fewer than 6.168 million Ukrainian refugees were registered across Europe by the end of July 2024, according to UNHCR
I don't think peace will be achieved unless the west recognizes the wishes of those who live/lived in the Donbas & Russia's security concerns. Our elites have admitted that this is a proxy war, so it is clear they don't give two craps about the people of Ukraine.
How the United States Drove Russia to Invade Ukraine and the Potential Consequences
August 2, 2024
How the United States Drove Russia to Invade Ukraine and the Potential Consequences - CovertAction Magazine
The Cold War did not end for the United States with the collapse of the Soviet Union. Instead, the United States set out on a systematic 30-plus year effort to undermine, humiliate and threaten the Russian state. This has ultimately led to the tragedy of the war in Ukraine. Of course this is...
". . . Nuland is married to Robert Kagan, a close associate of Paul Wolfowitz. We have come full circle.
What followed in Ukraine was the outlawing of both the Russian language and any political parties not partial to the new regime in Kyiv. Then in May 2014 a peaceful protest in Odessa was broken up by a mob and 30-40 Russian speakers were burned to death in a trade union building. An eight-year civil war ensued in the Donbass, leaving 15,000-18,000 dead, primarily in the Donbass. . . . "
<snip>
". . . Sun Tzu was a Chinese military general, strategist and philosopher who lived approximately 2,500 years ago. He was the author of “The Art of War,”[30] a highly respected text that is taught at West Point and Sandhurst. One of Sun Tzu’s more famous observations was that:
- If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles
- If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat
- If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle
Sun Tzu [Source: china385.fr]
The United States has placed itself firmly in the third category by refusing to accept Russia’s legitimate security concerns, as well as operating as if the United States has the power to dictate the affairs of other nations.
It would have been better to have heeded Sun Tzu’s recommendation, which would be to “Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across.”
- Sep 16, 2012
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The Russian-U.S. Relationship Goes Way Back to John Quincy Adams
Before he became president, Adams was the nascent country’s first ambassador to Russia
The Russian-U.S. Relationship Goes Way Back to John Quincy Adams
Before he became president, Adams was the nascent country’s first ambassador to Russia
www.smithsonianmag.com
“The Sovereign,” he wrote to his mother Abigail, “is Absolute, in all the extent of the word. . . .And the nobility have the same power over the people, that the Sovereign has over them. The Nation is wholly composed of Nobles and Serfs, or in other words, of Masters and Slaves.” The system, he wrote, is disadvantageous even to the ruler, for the nobles continually rebel against absolute power. Young though he was, Adams was very much a republican in the land of absolutism. .. ."
<snip>
". . . Adams was deeply impressed by Russian piety, noting that even the gentry fasted for the 40 days of Lent—and then gorged themselves on the stupendous feats of Easter. Everything was strange and outsized. Men wagered on which day the ice on the Neva would break; and when, in mid-May, it finally it did so, the governor of St. Petersburg brought the Czar an ice-cold glass of river water, and the Czar rewarded him with a hundred ducats. The Russian palaces were vast, the furnishings dazzling. At Catherine's Winter Palace, the magnificent decorations were decaying from wanton neglect. But Adams found the gravestones of three imperial greyhounds—"Sir Tom Anderson, Duchesse, and Zemire"—with inscriptions written in impeccable French verse.
Adams never lost his fascination with Russia; nor did Czar Alexander's fondness for the United States flag. But the bond between the two nations, the one the defender of autocratic orthodoxy, the other of republican liberty, was not a natural one. After Russia defeated Napoleon and humbled France, the Czar placed himself at the head of the Holy Alliance, a league of princes dedicated to stamping out all traces of republican thought in Europe. In 1817, Adams became Secretary of State in the administration of President James Monroe. He was the chief intellectual force behind the 1823 Monroe Doctrine, which stipulated that since "the political system of the allied powers"—the Holy Alliance—was "essentially different" from that of the United States, the U.S. would "consider any attempt on their part to extend their system to any portion of this hemisphere as dangerous to our peace and safety." The New World, that is, would be republican, and the U.S. would be its guarantor. The ideological struggle that would come to define U.S. relations with the Soviet Union in the 20th century was thus prefigured by the friction between republican America and autocratic Russia. . . "
ZestolPastilevsky
Diamond Member
- Oct 24, 2024
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Potentially.
Something that people don't know about is that the Russians helped the Union in a huge way during the Civil War. France and Britain were fixing to get involved with more than just providing the South with material support. The Russians, in polite terms, told them not to do that.The Russian-U.S. Relationship Goes Way Back to John Quincy Adams
Before he became president, Adams was the nascent country’s first ambassador to Russia
The Russian-U.S. Relationship Goes Way Back to John Quincy Adams
Before he became president, Adams was the nascent country’s first ambassador to Russia
“The Sovereign,” he wrote to his mother Abigail, “is Absolute, in all the extent of the word. . . .And the nobility have the same power over the people, that the Sovereign has over them. The Nation is wholly composed of Nobles and Serfs, or in other words, of Masters and Slaves.” The system, he wrote, is disadvantageous even to the ruler, for the nobles continually rebel against absolute power. Young though he was, Adams was very much a republican in the land of absolutism. .. ."
<snip>
". . . Adams was deeply impressed by Russian piety, noting that even the gentry fasted for the 40 days of Lent—and then gorged themselves on the stupendous feats of Easter. Everything was strange and outsized. Men wagered on which day the ice on the Neva would break; and when, in mid-May, it finally it did so, the governor of St. Petersburg brought the Czar an ice-cold glass of river water, and the Czar rewarded him with a hundred ducats. The Russian palaces were vast, the furnishings dazzling. At Catherine's Winter Palace, the magnificent decorations were decaying from wanton neglect. But Adams found the gravestones of three imperial greyhounds—"Sir Tom Anderson, Duchesse, and Zemire"—with inscriptions written in impeccable French verse.
Adams never lost his fascination with Russia; nor did Czar Alexander's fondness for the United States flag. But the bond between the two nations, the one the defender of autocratic orthodoxy, the other of republican liberty, was not a natural one. After Russia defeated Napoleon and humbled France, the Czar placed himself at the head of the Holy Alliance, a league of princes dedicated to stamping out all traces of republican thought in Europe. In 1817, Adams became Secretary of State in the administration of President James Monroe. He was the chief intellectual force behind the 1823 Monroe Doctrine, which stipulated that since "the political system of the allied powers"—the Holy Alliance—was "essentially different" from that of the United States, the U.S. would "consider any attempt on their part to extend their system to any portion of this hemisphere as dangerous to our peace and safety." The New World, that is, would be republican, and the U.S. would be its guarantor. The ideological struggle that would come to define U.S. relations with the Soviet Union in the 20th century was thus prefigured by the friction between republican America and autocratic Russia. . . "
ZestolPastilevsky
Diamond Member
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Yeah but that's not the same as a no-NATO guarantee.
justoffal
Diamond Member
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Yep that is correct.... At the time France had a lot to gain by trading directly with the Southern States..... And Britain of course would have jumped at any chance screw up the new country that they just lost control of. To put this in perspective had both of those countries gotten involved there's no possible way the North would have been able to pull off a victory. France had a very well equipped and very well organized field force and the British Navy at that time was probably superior to the American Navy.
ZestolPastilevsky
Diamond Member
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Well, I coulda told you that the genocide was real and ongoing. If you look through history, this isn't the first time the Ukrainians have carried out a campaign of ethnic cleansing against other groups in lands they believe are theirs. It's actually the reason much of Eastern Europe isn't super enthusiastic about helping them. Why help the people who less than 100 years ago were cutting unborn children out of pregnant women before killing them and burning the villages?
justoffal
Diamond Member
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luiza
Diamond Member
Best estimate , Russia 100-150 000
Ukraine , minimum 750 000 . Possibly significantly more .
FIO Dear Uncle P was born in a village in Siberia but he and Mum moved to Georgia when Dad did a runner . Volodya was about 9 when he moved to St P .
That's the real bio . The official one is BS .
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