The "Virtuous" New Nazis.

[Coyote]

This is the crux of the matter.

What this topic is about.

and it has acted like a roll call for some of the forum's virtuous new Nazis.

The topic being: the demonising of the Jews, and the justifications for it, now, and during 1930's Germany. It's also been referred to in literature, time and time again.

"Jews, go back to Palestine!"

"Jews, get out of Palestine!"

Is that an oxymoron,or what?

Do you acknowledge any legitimate objection to Israel's policies and if so how do you make the distinction?

 

[irosie91]

huh? can you expand on that delusion?

Are you suggesting the neo-Nazis in Europe are actually okay with Muslim refugees? Are you suggesting that the West has nothing to do with the Middle East?

lots of people have problems with the influx of refugees from the Middle East wherever they are INFLUXING-------NO LARGE AND PROMINENT COUNTRY IN THE WORLD -----has "nothing to do with the middle east" As to the present situation in Syria-----the USA did not MAKE IT HAPPEN----not by a long shot

The US had a lot to do with what happened when it set things in motion by invading Iraq. But equally to blame was Europe's carving up of the Ottoman Empire creating large artificial states.

See you ignore the truth and go for islamonazi propaganda instead. The LoN ( not Europe) gave the inhabitants of the former Ottoman empire the nations they wanted based on historic borders. They are not "artificial states" other than Jordan and palestine that never existed in antiquity

Been reading a very interesting article that's almost a short book, on the origins of the conflicts in the modern middle east. Maybe you should read a bit before you spew your crap.

coyote---please try to make a point------"i have read" does not
work on a messageboard.

 

[irosie91]

This is the crux of the matter.

What this topic is about.

and it has acted like a roll call for some of the forum's virtuous new Nazis.

The topic being: the demonising of the Jews, and the justifications for it, now, and during 1930's Germany. It's also been referred to in literature, time and time again.

"Jews, go back to Palestine!"

"Jews, get out of Palestine!"

Is that an oxymoron,or what?

Do you acknowledge any legitimate objection to Israel's policies and if so how do you make the distinction?

too non-specific, coyote.

 

[Mindful]

Might I remind you, gentle people, that this OP was not set up to discuss Muslims. But Jew hatred in Europe.

 

[Coyote]

lots of people have problems with the influx of refugees from the Middle East wherever they are INFLUXING-------NO LARGE AND PROMINENT COUNTRY IN THE WORLD -----has "nothing to do with the middle east" As to the present situation in Syria-----the USA did not MAKE IT HAPPEN----not by a long shot

The US had a lot to do with what happened when it set things in motion by invading Iraq. But equally to blame was Europe's carving up of the Ottoman Empire creating large artificial states.

"Set things in motion"---??? what "THINGS"??? Why not
blame it on NAPOLEON?
the subject is the present situation in Syria-------What does the
invasion into Iraq have to do with THE PRESENT SITUATION
IN SYRIA???-------the events have no correlation other than TIME. Why not blame it all on my birthday party in 1995.
The "carving up of the OTTOMAN EMPIRE"? why not blame it on my mom's birthday in 1920?

lol

And what do these fatuous circular arguments we see dominating most of the Israel threads, done to death and beyond, have to do with the age old scapegoating of Jews, down through the centuries? And still going on today.

I am trying to find out. -----the fall of the OTTOMAN EMPIRE----did it all------I wonder if anyone who blames the fall of the
Ottoman Empire have any idea just what the Ottoman empire
was. The Austrian Hapsburg empire also fell. Anybody want to name the evil agency that "CARVED IT UP"?-----
The Moghul Empire fell------if you want to know how much evil
the destruction of the NOBLE AND UTOPIAN MOGHUL EMPIRE caused the world------ask a Pakistani or a muslim from India

Austrian Empire. Good question.

Travelling around Europe, particularly the East, and the Balkans, one sees the fragments of the Imperial past.

I don't think the Ukraine will ever recover.

I think that "balkinization" is what is occurring in the ME today.

 

[irosie91]

Might I remind you, gentle people, that this OP was not set up to discuss Muslims. But Jew hatred in Europe.

flexibility in the human mind is that which makes US human

 

[koshergrl]

Coyote is pro-muslim, pro-isis, anti-Christian, anti-American, anti-baby. That's why she believes the Jews should always be the ones to die/give up property/etc.

People should pay attention to the serious comments that elicit her "funny" response in particular. Muslims indulging in mass murder is funny to her. Muslims raping children is funny to her. Muslims killing Jews is funny to her. If a person opposes ANYTHING a Muslim does, she thinks it is funny.

Yup.

 

[koshergrl]

Might I remind you, gentle people, that this OP was not set up to discuss Muslims. But Jew hatred in Europe.

And why do you think it's enjoying such popularity these days?

"
Some politicians around the world deny that what is happening in Europe is anti-Semitism. It is, they say, merely a reaction to the actions of the state of Israel, to the continuing conflict with the Palestinians. But the policies of the state of Israel are not made in kosher supermarkets in Paris or in Jewish cultural institutions in Brussels and Mumbai. The targets in these cities were not Israeli. They were Jewish.

According to the Middle East Media Research Institute, an Egyptian cleric, Muhammad Hussein Yaqub, speaking in January 2009 on Al Rahma, a popular religious TV station in Egypt, made the contours of the new hate impeccably clear: “If the Jews left Palestine to us, would we start loving them? Of course not. We will never love them…They are enemies not because they occupied Palestine. They would have been enemies even if they did not occupy a thing…You must believe that we will fight, defeat and annihilate them until not a single Jew remains on the face of the Earth…You will not survive as long as a single one of us remains.”

The Return of Anti-Semitism

 

[Coyote]

Are you suggesting the neo-Nazis in Europe are actually okay with Muslim refugees? Are you suggesting that the West has nothing to do with the Middle East?

lots of people have problems with the influx of refugees from the Middle East wherever they are INFLUXING-------NO LARGE AND PROMINENT COUNTRY IN THE WORLD -----has "nothing to do with the middle east" As to the present situation in Syria-----the USA did not MAKE IT HAPPEN----not by a long shot

The US had a lot to do with what happened when it set things in motion by invading Iraq. But equally to blame was Europe's carving up of the Ottoman Empire creating large artificial states.

See you ignore the truth and go for islamonazi propaganda instead. The LoN ( not Europe) gave the inhabitants of the former Ottoman empire the nations they wanted based on historic borders. They are not "artificial states" other than Jordan and palestine that never existed in antiquity

Been reading a very interesting article that's almost a short book, on the origins of the conflicts in the modern middle east. Maybe you should read a bit before you spew your crap.

coyote---please try to make a point------"i have read" does not
work on a messageboard.

That would require starting a new topic.

 

[koshergrl]

In 2011:

"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.

Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "

The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe

 

[Coyote]

I don't think antisemitism ever really left Europe, it just got buried. People will always need scapegoats to blame for their troubles and to unite them when the future is uncertain and their identity seems threatened. Those scapegoats are usually minorities.

 

[koshergrl]

lots of people have problems with the influx of refugees from the Middle East wherever they are INFLUXING-------NO LARGE AND PROMINENT COUNTRY IN THE WORLD -----has "nothing to do with the middle east" As to the present situation in Syria-----the USA did not MAKE IT HAPPEN----not by a long shot

The US had a lot to do with what happened when it set things in motion by invading Iraq. But equally to blame was Europe's carving up of the Ottoman Empire creating large artificial states.

See you ignore the truth and go for islamonazi propaganda instead. The LoN ( not Europe) gave the inhabitants of the former Ottoman empire the nations they wanted based on historic borders. They are not "artificial states" other than Jordan and palestine that never existed in antiquity

Been reading a very interesting article that's almost a short book, on the origins of the conflicts in the modern middle east. Maybe you should read a bit before you spew your crap.

coyote---please try to make a point------"i have read" does not
work on a messageboard.

That would require starting a new topic.

wtf? No, you already referenced it. It would require you supporting the hateful crap you spew, and you won't do that. I don't know if you're too stupid, or too evil. Maybe both.

 

[Mindful]

Might I remind you, gentle people, that this OP was not set up to discuss Muslims. But Jew hatred in Europe.

And why do you think it's enjoying such popularity these days?

"
Some politicians around the world deny that what is happening in Europe is anti-Semitism. It is, they say, merely a reaction to the actions of the state of Israel, to the continuing conflict with the Palestinians. But the policies of the state of Israel are not made in kosher supermarkets in Paris or in Jewish cultural institutions in Brussels and Mumbai. The targets in these cities were not Israeli. They were Jewish.

According to the Middle East Media Research Institute, an Egyptian cleric, Muhammad Hussein Yaqub, speaking in January 2009 on Al Rahma, a popular religious TV station in Egypt, made the contours of the new hate impeccably clear: “If the Jews left Palestine to us, would we start loving them? Of course not. We will never love them…They are enemies not because they occupied Palestine. They would have been enemies even if they did not occupy a thing…You must believe that we will fight, defeat and annihilate them until not a single Jew remains on the face of the Earth…You will not survive as long as a single one of us remains.”

The Return of Anti-Semitism

It never really went away.

Cloaked in present day idealistic eloquence, and outrageous justifications, one could almost believe it oneself.

 

[koshergrl]

Might I remind you, gentle people, that this OP was not set up to discuss Muslims. But Jew hatred in Europe.

And why do you think it's enjoying such popularity these days?

"
Some politicians around the world deny that what is happening in Europe is anti-Semitism. It is, they say, merely a reaction to the actions of the state of Israel, to the continuing conflict with the Palestinians. But the policies of the state of Israel are not made in kosher supermarkets in Paris or in Jewish cultural institutions in Brussels and Mumbai. The targets in these cities were not Israeli. They were Jewish.

According to the Middle East Media Research Institute, an Egyptian cleric, Muhammad Hussein Yaqub, speaking in January 2009 on Al Rahma, a popular religious TV station in Egypt, made the contours of the new hate impeccably clear: “If the Jews left Palestine to us, would we start loving them? Of course not. We will never love them…They are enemies not because they occupied Palestine. They would have been enemies even if they did not occupy a thing…You must believe that we will fight, defeat and annihilate them until not a single Jew remains on the face of the Earth…You will not survive as long as a single one of us remains.”

The Return of Anti-Semitism

It never really went away.

Cloaked in present day idealistic eloquence, and outrageous justifications, one could almost believe it oneself.

Nobody said it went away. But it is definitely mainstream now. Look to Coyote. She's the biggest sheep you'll find on this site, and look at the garbage she spouts. She wouldn't do it if it wasn't common. She's never had an original thought in her life.

 

[Coyote]

In 2011:

"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.

Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "

The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe

Interesting article. And I agree.

The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.

But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.

In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.

 

[Coyote]

The US had a lot to do with what happened when it set things in motion by invading Iraq. But equally to blame was Europe's carving up of the Ottoman Empire creating large artificial states.

See you ignore the truth and go for islamonazi propaganda instead. The LoN ( not Europe) gave the inhabitants of the former Ottoman empire the nations they wanted based on historic borders. They are not "artificial states" other than Jordan and palestine that never existed in antiquity

Been reading a very interesting article that's almost a short book, on the origins of the conflicts in the modern middle east. Maybe you should read a bit before you spew your crap.

coyote---please try to make a point------"i have read" does not
work on a messageboard.

That would require starting a new topic.

wtf? No, you already referenced it. It would require you supporting the hateful crap you spew, and you won't do that. I don't know if you're too stupid, or too evil. Maybe both.

I referenced it in response to another person's quote and don't want to derail this topic further. If you want to discuss the origins of the conflicts in the ME today - start a topic and I'll join in. Much of it started with WW1 and the carving up of the Ottoman Empire into states that would not have naturally existed forcing different people's together who historically did not get along, and creating a situation where only strongman dictators could hold those states together. Following the European system of "divide and conquor" they invested minorities with power because they knew the minorities would have to remain loyal to them or their existence would be threatened. Why are the Christians in Syria in so much trouble? They were closely linked to the ruling Syrian group, also a minority, and now the civil war has given power, and vengeance, to the oppressed majorities. That's NOT a defense of anything - just a very simplistic explanation of the history behind it. It's fascinating and dreadful, and similar played out in Africa.

 

[irosie91]

In 2011:

"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.

Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "

The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe

Interesting article. And I agree.

The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.

But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.

In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.

In 2011:

"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.

Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "

The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe

Interesting article. And I agree.

The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.

But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.

In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.

coyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST

 

[koshergrl]

So Coyote is trying to prevent any discussion of historical events as they pertain to the situation today.

Of course she is. And we all know why. Nazis and Muslims BOTH deny the holocaust, and ban the teaching of history that doesn't promote their cause.

 

[Mindful]

Might I remind you, gentle people, that this OP was not set up to discuss Muslims. But Jew hatred in Europe.

And why do you think it's enjoying such popularity these days?

"
Some politicians around the world deny that what is happening in Europe is anti-Semitism. It is, they say, merely a reaction to the actions of the state of Israel, to the continuing conflict with the Palestinians. But the policies of the state of Israel are not made in kosher supermarkets in Paris or in Jewish cultural institutions in Brussels and Mumbai. The targets in these cities were not Israeli. They were Jewish.

According to the Middle East Media Research Institute, an Egyptian cleric, Muhammad Hussein Yaqub, speaking in January 2009 on Al Rahma, a popular religious TV station in Egypt, made the contours of the new hate impeccably clear: “If the Jews left Palestine to us, would we start loving them? Of course not. We will never love them…They are enemies not because they occupied Palestine. They would have been enemies even if they did not occupy a thing…You must believe that we will fight, defeat and annihilate them until not a single Jew remains on the face of the Earth…You will not survive as long as a single one of us remains.”

The Return of Anti-Semitism

It never really went away.

Cloaked in present day idealistic eloquence, and outrageous justifications, one could almost believe it oneself.

Nobody said it went away. But it is definitely mainstream now. Look to Coyote. She's the biggest sheep you'll find on this site, and look at the garbage she spouts. She wouldn't do it if it wasn't common. She's never had an original thought in her life.

These calls for boycotting Israeli products. Some fool likened them to successful sanctions on South Africa.

Steven Hawking adding his voice to the cause. Does he not realise that he is calling for his own death? As Israeli technology is keeping him alive.

 

[irosie91]

See you ignore the truth and go for islamonazi propaganda instead. The LoN ( not Europe) gave the inhabitants of the former Ottoman empire the nations they wanted based on historic borders. They are not "artificial states" other than Jordan and palestine that never existed in antiquity

Been reading a very interesting article that's almost a short book, on the origins of the conflicts in the modern middle east. Maybe you should read a bit before you spew your crap.

coyote---please try to make a point------"i have read" does not
work on a messageboard.

That would require starting a new topic.

wtf? No, you already referenced it. It would require you supporting the hateful crap you spew, and you won't do that. I don't know if you're too stupid, or too evil. Maybe both.

I referenced it in response to another person's quote and don't want to derail this topic further. If you want to discuss the origins of the conflicts in the ME today - start a topic and I'll join in. Much of it started with WW1 and the carving up of the Ottoman Empire into states that would not have naturally existed forcing different people's together who historically did not get along, and creating a situation where only strongman dictators could hold those states together. Following the European system of "divide and conquor" they invested minorities with power because they knew the minorities would have to remain loyal to them or their existence would be threatened. Why are the Christians in Syria in so much trouble? They were closely linked to the ruling Syrian group, also a minority, and now the civil war has given power, and vengeance, to the oppressed majorities. That's NOT a defense of anything - just a very simplistic explanation of the history behind it. It's fascinating and dreadful, and similar played out in Africa.

I DO NOT AGREE-----the OTTOMAN EMPIRE itself created
more than enough strife that would have BY NOW----become
just as virulent as anything now going on in the Middle east